The Mandan City Commission sent a message to police Chief Dennis Rohr -no more undercover sting operations at bars using underage participants.

This came at Tuesday's commission meeting during Rohr's request for an approval to use a North Dakota Highway Patrol manpower overtime grant for the purpose of reducing underaged drinking.

Commissioner Dan Ulmer, participating via conference call, aired his concerns about the grant.

"I don't want to see anymore undercover stings; I think we've learned our lesson," Ulmer said in reference to a sting operation at Ratz Lounge that ended with officers being attacked, the bar owners arrested and the bar's license revoked.

Commissioner Tim Helbling said he felt officers should be in uniform when doing bar checks, which was not the case when two Mandan police officers entered Ratz following up on a sting operation in which an underage person was served a drink at the establishment.

"I do have a tendency to go along with Dan (Ulmer), and this last incident was frightening," Mayor Ken LaMont said. "I feel bad for the officers involved. If you (Rohr) have a better way of getting this done and it is effective, I'm all for it."

Rohr explained that the patrol uses statistical information from its grant program and that routine bar checks do not provide the statistics such as the operations using minors attempting to buy drinks. The police chief did indicate the grant can be used in an educational effort to train bar owners and bartenders to recognize underage buyers.

"If we really want to check vigilance we can use this mode (underage operations) if we think a bar is being lax and giving liquor to minors. We do have flexibility in how we do these," Rohr said.

"What I'm saying is, I don't like the sneaking around. It causes more headaches," Ulmer replied. "I don't like this NARC stuff. Ratz is an example of how it can blow up in your face. I don't think we should be funding these anymore."

"If the commission feels we should focus in other areas, we can,"Rohr said.

"I think the message is fairly clear in terms of these stings,"Ulmer said. "Walk through the bar in uniform. Even walk through undercover or sit outside in the parking lot to see who's going in and out."

Helbling added he didn't want to see police checks becoming a harassment, even on walk-throughs. "In and out as quick as they can as long as they don't come across any issues."

"Work with the owners," Ulmer said. "Nothing is more harassing than sneaking around."

Rohr noted that minors know all the "tricks of the trade" when attempting to get alcohol, and it's difficult for bar owners to avoid them all.

"Bar owners respect police going through, but they don't like the sneaking around using underage people," Helbling said.

The chief admitted he hesitates when using minors.

Bismarck City Commissioner Bryce Hill said he was surprised by the Mandan commission's decision.

"The way I see it, it's a necessary evil," Hill said. "Nobody likes to do that sort of thing, but it's got to do with protecting people. That's their (Mandan's) choice. I don't know if we would change because we've never had a problem. The people being checked know full well they're going to be checked."

"We've been doing compliance checks for alcohol and tobacco for a long time," said Bismarck Police Chief Deb Ness. "They've been very effective."

Commissioner Stan Scott made the motion to approve using the grant, "with the general understanding that you make sure officers are going in uniform and not plainclothes and you don't send youth in as guinea pigs," Scott said.

Ulmer added he didn't mind plainclothed officers doing checks as long as they identified themselves.

The motion was approved unanimously.