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Global warming the great farce

 
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Dec 19, 2008 - 04:05:30 CST
By BILL MELECH
Bismarck
I am sitting here in my home in Bismarck this morning, Dec. 14, watching the TV news weather, which is 10 below zero, with a wind chill factor of minus 32 degrees, wondering where is global warming?

This alone should prove that there is no such thing as global warming. It is a "farce" from the word "go." Weather patterns are cyclical, controlled by the sun.

I may be the dumbest guy in the world, but Ilike to think that Ihave some degree of common sense.

John Coleman, who founded the TVWeather Channel, and has been in weather all of his life, stated on national TV that there is no such thing as global warming.

Iquote him: "Global warming is the greatest scam in history."

Now something else has popped up, called "carbon footprints,"strongly proposed and backed up by the wacko environmentalists who continue to spread their message of gloom and doom.

Our corporations, small businesses and even homeowners have to abide by mandated laws and regulations by federal, state, county and city, which allows each business or homeowner so many "carbon footprints." These footprints could be bought, traded or sold, depending on one's allotted needs, which is another huge bureaucracy and scam.

Ignorance is our worst enemy.
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Global warming the great farce
Comments

Cal wrote on Dec 29, 2008 10:22 AM:

" BeAdvised,

I have to give credit where credit is due. If he won soldier of the month in 1970, it would have been quite a feat to accomplish that from behind a typewriter surrounded by private security guards. I bet that not too many typewriter jockeys beat our REAL soldiers to win this award. Hats off.

Algore, the man, the myth "

Al wrote on Dec 29, 2008 10:15 AM:

" Mass murderer Mikhail Gorbachev won a nobel peace prize. Past nominees included mass murderers Stalin, Hitler, Mousilini, and Arafat.

The UN has also won the prize many times and is also responsible for embezzling millions of dollars intended for starving children, rape, murder, ect.

This prize is a far left prize that is given to whom ever best advances the causes of the left which is power and wealth for the political elite, wealth redistribution, and socialism. This is what the Global Warming hoax is all about. Wealth redistribution and power. "

JD wrote on Dec 26, 2008 9:50 PM:

" (To: BeAdvised & Helena H. Basket) Oops, you got me on that one. Can't be correct all the time(JOKING). I believe what I was thinking of was Hitler being Time magazines "Man of the year" 1938?. Sorry I confused them. "

Helena H basket wrote on Dec 26, 2008 8:15 PM:

" To clarify: Adolph Hitler was nominated for Nobel Peace Prize in 1939 by Erik Brandt, a member of the Norwegian govt. He withdrew his nomination a few days later. Getting back on topic- It's important to be mindful of our actions and respect the earth. Global warming? seems to fall in the same category of scientific misinformation.... The world is flat, the sun revolves around the earth,
blood letting will cure disease, IE: People believe it at the time, but it will someday be proven false when more knowledge is obtained. "

Owl Gore wrote on Dec 26, 2008 3:55 PM:

" Fact - Al Gore knows not of what he speaks. "

Mike R wrote on Dec 26, 2008 2:02 PM:

" To beadvised: I have a soldier of the month award also. So does that make me an expert on global warming now to, or did you have another point you were trying to make with that? "

BeAdvised wrote on Dec 26, 2008 12:30 PM:

" To JD
Hitler did not win any Nobel Prize.
Albert Gore not only received the Nobel but also an Emmy Award, a Webby Award, and many others.
In April 1970, he was Soldier of the Month "

dave wrote on Dec 26, 2008 9:58 AM:

" I'm glad that I am doing my part to fight global warming, recycling beer cans and buying carbon credits. "

JD wrote on Dec 25, 2008 8:03 PM:

" (To Mom of Teens) Adolf Hitler won a nobel Prize to. Would you follow him like a blind lamb as well? Global warming proponents want nothing more than our tax $ in the name of SAVING humanity. Global warming is phony, sorry for the reality check...AGAIN. "

mom-of-teens wrote on Dec 25, 2008 1:07 PM:

" Del, oh of course you're right! Al Gore's research only won him a nobel prize, therefore we should IGNORE it entirely! So you are an expert in global warming just because you majored in science or math, or whatever it was?? How does that make you qualified to say for SURE that global warming isn't partially caused by MAN?? There are plenty of scientists who would disgree with the scientists that you have heard I'm sure! It's all a matter of WHO you want to listen to! And to "to mom of teens", my degree is in nursing, but I'm not claiming to be an expert in global warming, AM I?? I'm just saying mans' effects on the environment shouldn't be ruled out. "

enoughofthehype wrote on Dec 24, 2008 6:55 PM:

" Merry Christmas to all,
Fact: North Dakota used to have dinosaurs and a tropical climate
Fact: North Dakota was also once covered with a glacier.
Fact: Weather has always changed throughout history
Fact: Damage From Recent hurricanes were not caused by the storms themselves but by the failure of man-made devices that were created so that man could live where god never intended them too. It's called canal street for a reason Fiction: Global Warming "

fp wrote on Dec 24, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Jason, you are a good person. Thanks for putting up with the nonsence. Happy Festivus, I find tinsel distracting. "

Incredulous wrote on Dec 24, 2008 1:09 PM:

" Thanks, Jason, you too! "

Andrew wrote on Dec 24, 2008 12:23 PM:

" Mom of teens, I'll play along. Precious-Elect Obama apparently has no regard for your rules, though. This past week he named his appointee to head up the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Her name is Jane Lubchenco and her education is not in atmospheric science or climatology; rather, she is an "expert" in marine biology and a "noted" professor of zoology. Ol' Lubby has been a proponent of global warming/climate change ideology though not degreed in any science that should qualify her. Apparently, in Obama's estimation, her theology is just correct... an ideological appointment to pay back his base voters. I think with that said, anyone posting cogent, well-researched positions here is as qualified to opine as the next armchair climatologist. Anyone remember the dire predictions of butterfly EXPERT Paul Erlich in his repudiated tome, "The Population Bomb?" I do, and it is rubbish of the same sort as the climate alarmists' of today. "

Online Editor wrote on Dec 24, 2008 12:02 PM:

" To all readers, writers: Regardless of your political, religious and scientific views, have a happy holiday -- Jason Lueder, online editor. "

Del wrote on Dec 24, 2008 11:55 AM:

" mom-of-teens,

I have a Bachelor in Science from NDSU. It is actually a degree in math, but that is more than what Algore has. He doesn't have any kind of degree in any kind scientific field. He flunked out of divinity school. According to you, since he does not have a degree in a science related field he is not qualified to comment on the topic. We must discard everything he says on the topic. I will be more than happy to comply.

By the way, there are thousands of actual scientists who have degrees in meteorology and science who call global warming a politically motivated hoax. But they are not going to tell you what you want to hear, so this does not matter to you.

It's time for me to go outside and freeze my big fat rear off. I hope santa brings me an SUV. "

To mom-of-teens wrote on Dec 24, 2008 11:05 AM:

" You want rsums from from all posters? Then by all means, lead by example. "

mom-of-teens wrote on Dec 24, 2008 10:50 AM:

" It's really refreshing to see so many seasoned "scientists" on this board who know better than everyone else whether global warming exists or not! Tell me, where did you study and get your degrees from? I would be curious to hear about all your vast education and research, I just LOVE science!! "

BMan wrote on Dec 24, 2008 10:15 AM:

" I believe that the sun is responsible for the planet warming, not freedom, liberty, and capitalism. I am not ready to take these things away and starve tens of millions of people until it can be proven scientifically that freedom, liberty, and capitalism are responsible for global warming.

And no, pictures of ice melting does not prove that freedom, liberty, and capitalism are responsible for global warming. And no, concensus is not a good substitute for real science. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 24, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Anyone interested in debunking myths about vast majorities of scientists as proponents, paste this link into your browser for a Senate report stating otherwise:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9 "

Andrew wrote on Dec 24, 2008 8:42 AM:

" WHATEVER, then by that definition, you, too, are a jihadist. Thanks for posting the explanation. "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 24, 2008 7:49 AM:

" To Rebecca: I used the word "jihadist" to describe anti-liberals because it actually has at least one definition that fits (from dictionary.com): " 2. any vigorous, emotional crusade for an idea or principle." It fit, so I used it, and I will use it again to describe the radical anti-liberals who have a vigorous, emotional crusade against liberals.

To Dewdrop: When I said "There is no real debate on global warming. It is factual and beyond question", I meant what I said. There is no debate as to whether global warming is occurring. I have seen the evidence with my own eyes. I don't need Al Gore or anyone else to tell me that. The only debate is whether humans are causing or contributing to it, and in one of my previous posts, I cited a source that says 8 out of 10 climate scientists agree that human activity is involved. "

Saved by the Volcanoes wrote on Dec 24, 2008 1:19 AM:

" Volcanic ash cools the tropics
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24840380-11949,00.html

VOLCANIC eruptions have periodically cooled the tropics over at least the past 450 years by spewing out particles that girdle the world at high altitude.

The ash reflects sunlight, according to a newly released study. "

Ride a Green horse wrote on Dec 24, 2008 12:48 AM:

" We could save a lot of those greenhouse gasses by grounding the space shuttle, stop flying people to Hawaii, and shut down national parks to vehicle traffic.

Hollywood actors would be glad to lead the way on fuel economy by riding motor scooters.

We could balance the budget and rebuild our roads by closing down overseas WWII military bases.

And we could use satellite radar to help the polar bears find baby seals and their mothers in caves under the ice.

And we can sell carbon credits to industries that pollute so they can keep on polluting. "

Incredulous wrote on Dec 23, 2008 11:44 PM:

" "I may be the dumbest guy in the world." Ding, ding ding, we have a winner. "

Snap wrote on Dec 23, 2008 10:04 PM:

" Snort! I love good 'ol North Dakota "common sense." look out the window, see snow, deduce that global warming is a farce! "

John wrote on Dec 23, 2008 6:03 PM:

" I hope Captain Green was joking. Must be some accent your trying to portray. You dont honestly think people will take you serious when you mispell every other word. Or are you text talking, that my friend is worse than global warming. "

captin green wrote on Dec 23, 2008 12:25 PM:

" Obama is the best thing that ever happened to the poler bares!!!!! He has real poler bare values!!!!

YES WE CAN!!! YES WE CAN!!! YES WE CAN!!! YES WE CAN!!! "

Captin green wrote on Dec 23, 2008 12:20 PM:

" See how everything that we are doing is helping the planet!!!!!!!!! We cant give up yet. Obama and Pomeroy will save to poler bares!!!! The fight is no ober yet. We are bringing the temprature down, but it can go back up if we get compacent.

We can save the poler bares if we work together. Dont beleve them when they say that our fight is over. We are making progress. Lets do it for the poler bares!!!! We can win this one!!!!!! "

Dakota Dude wrote on Dec 23, 2008 12:16 PM:

" All that I know for sure is that the temperature over the last few years does not match Algore's global warming model but it does fit NASA's model that measures solar activity. Algores model goes up, while the Earth's temperature drops along with NASA's chart that depicts solar activity.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/11jul_solarcycleupdate.htm

Wake up, look at your thermometer, look at the facts, and come to the realization that global warming is a politically motivated hoax. The motive is to take your money and your freedom.

It also look like Obama (who is in in this hoax) is flying around in a private jet like Algore. "

jetcity wrote on Dec 23, 2008 10:11 AM:

" I don't buy global warming, but I believe in taking care of the environment. I just don't agree with doing it in stupid ways as in ethanol or taxing how many farting cows you have. Where is the common sense? And these rich politicians touting global warming (sorry, climate change), want the sheeple to give up luxuries while they jet off to Paris for a caviar lunch. "

Unconvinced wrote on Dec 23, 2008 2:32 AM:

" What was the climate like in the Cretaceous?
http://www.abc.net.au/science/ozfossil/ageofreptiles/polar/default.htm
2nd paragraph says: There were no polar ice caps at the north and south poles. "

Carbon Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2008 1:54 AM:

" Arctic Sea Ice Hits Second-lowest Recorded Extent, Likely Lowest Volume
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081002172436.htm
Merry Christmas Deb, big money to be made trading carbon credits. "

good evidence wrote on Dec 23, 2008 1:35 AM:

" The only good evidence that the world is warming up is the Arctic Ice melting.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080915162428.htm
This article from the end of last summer, 4th paragraph down says:
This is also the first year that the Northwest Passage over the top of North America, and the Northeast Passage over the top of Russia are both free of ice.

But there is much the above magazine article is not saying. Probably the melting ice is caused by all the Russian Nuclear Subs hiding under the ice. Maybe we need limits on how fast they can turn their giant propellers so they do not pull down any swimming polar bears. "

the lorax wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:08 PM:

" To confused. The ozone depletion is something totally different than global warming. The ozone (03 is the gas) depletion is something that results in a lack of UV protection. The increase in greenhouse gases (CO2 and water vapor just to name a few) are what is thought to contribute to global warming. So while the ozone layer may be depleting, the other gases may be increasing. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 22, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Snap, the big deal is that while talk of a lot of green jobs and how they should appeal to pro-business conservatives is coming at the expense of valid debate; debate as to what it will cost; how realistic the goals are (probably pretty realistic!) and the relationship between not forfeiting our edge in the global economy with countries so polluted they stink to high heaven, as well as insuring our rights are not forfeited in the meantime. Yessiree, I want clean and water, too, but it should be done right and for the right reasons. The ends do not justify the means. The right means will bring the best end. That's the debate. Thanks for bringing your usual sunshine (ahem) to the boards. Gee, careful where you point that finger about being an expert on everything. "

To Confused wrote on Dec 22, 2008 4:42 PM:

" You should be confused. I remember when I was in grade school in the 1980s, the big scare was over global COOLING... that we were headed for a catastrophic ICE AGE. Then in the 1990s the tune shifted to global warming. Of course, either way, it was said it was our (humanity's) fault. Both were supposedly based on scientific "evidence". I find it interesting that right on cue we seem to get "crisis" after "crisis" that conveniently requires more government power to fight and we mere citizens lose rights with each "crisis". Must be a coincidence, huh? "

confused wrote on Dec 22, 2008 4:00 PM:

" Perhaps someone can help me figure this scientific evidence. I watched the first 15 minutes of Al Gore's "movie" and something didn't add up. Al Gore used some animations and a cartoon PSA to summarize Global Warming. He also said that the atmosphere is thickening which causes additional UV Rays to stay trapped inside, aka the Greenhouse Effect. Since I've been in elementary school in the 90's, the big thing being talked about was Ozone depletion. The most emphasis was being placed on the poles and how thin the Ozone was as a result of CFC's. Which is it? Is the atmosphere getting thinner as scientists and the media in the 90's kept telling us or is it getting thicker as Al Gore and the media in the 2000's keep telling us? "

Snap wrote on Dec 22, 2008 3:17 PM:

" Lemme tell Bill and the rest of you somethin! Even if global warming is a farce, the new wave to go green will create a lot of businesses and jobs! And we clean up the air some, is that such a bad thing? Next, what the heck scientific credentials does Bill have? He writes so many letters to the editor I'm starting to think he's a gol-durn expert on everything! "

Scott wrote on Dec 22, 2008 11:50 AM:

" Global warming and global cooling have been going on long before man had any ability to influence it. Two of the biggest influences on it are the flow of warm ocean waters to the cooler northern oceans a disruption of this can cause cooling of the climate, a reduction in the number of sun spots can also cause cooling. The earth has also experienced periods of warming, it is most likely that we can't do much one way or the other to influence global warming, it is I am afraid more of a political issue than a issue than one we as humans have any real ability to control. "

Kimberly wrote on Dec 22, 2008 10:08 AM:

" Global 'warming'? I'm not sure, there really is no way to be certain. But I do know that if you take a sample of our atmosphere, it is so horribly polluted that it may not be able to be reversed. I know that there are far more cancers in the present day than there were a hundred years ago, caused by carcinogens from chemicals, plastics, etc. I know the doldrums of our oceans are landfills of waste that eventually gets back into our own food supply. Take a look at the haze over a metropolitan area...and you think this is healthy? I hated calling myself an environmentalist because of the stigma associated with the term. I don't care anymore. Our wasteful, lazy, cushy lives are affecting us more negatively than we want to realize. Really, what is so wrong with wanting to live in harmony with the Earth instead of destroying it? On the grassroots level, this has NOTHING to do with politics.

As a capitalist, I favor the expansion of green jobs and a more earth-friendly economy. I do disagree with people who say this is only coming from the left. Many well-known republicans address the climate issue as well, including our current president. John McCain was one of the first Repubs to address climate change a long time ago. I know one person mentioned a comparison of the Sun and a SUV. But, on the other hand look at what fuel conservation did to the oil prices. On a global level, small changes add up in a big way. Do you like breathing in car exhaust? Now imagine all the cars on the road in the world. Small things add up, thats all I'm saying. I think it's great the people are conserving, no matter whether you believe in global 'warming' or not. Plus it's a great bonus to see OPEC losing all of its power anyway! "

Rebecca wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:35 AM:

" To Whatever: Exactly how is jihadist the best word you could come up? This actually really bothers me, because it is one of those words that no one knows the definition of, but they use it because it sounds extreme. It's like calling someone a fascist or a Nazi. It's called an "ad hominum" (aka attacking the person, not the argument) and if you are actually trying to have a reasonable discussion, it is unacceptable to use it. Also, it makes you sound ignorant. Not that you are, it just makes you sound that way. "

Rebecca wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:17 AM:

" To Whatever: The majority of scientists agree that global climate change is happening and that humans contribute to it, but the extent of human contribution, whether or not the effects will be good or bad, and how or if it can be (or should be) stopped are up to debate.
Many scientists, if you read the article I posted awhile earlier, believe that the kind of science that Al Gore and activists are following is alarmism to scare people (and/or meet their own personal objectives).
To say there should be no more debate on the subject is ludicrous; that is how science progresses. Do I think we should be more environmentally responsible? Yes. But do I think that we should try to scare people into responsibility? No.
In fact, using fear to meet an objective actually IS, by definition, terrorism. So when you call the right wing (to which I don't belong) "jihadists" the term is actually more applicable to the kind of viewpoint that you are presenting; that you and your opinion are right to the exclusion of others and that you will use fear if necessary to force that opinion. "

justwonder wrote on Dec 22, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Yep, basically I think it is VERY much like a religion being forced down our throats. Mass hystaria! BUY carbon credits! SICK! $$$$$$$$$ Can't you see the GREEN dollar signs floating right out of your hands & into the fat greedy hands of the gov. This is a HUGE gov hoax!!! And it all has to do with $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!

We are like a bunch of little ants. I bet they think when it starts raining that it is going to last forever & they are going to drown. They scramble around like crazy & then suddenly - beings it is weather - it quits. All is well in their world again untill mother nature takes another shower. (maybe they even had a lil ant boat built of the finest leaves around for a lil ant Noah)
My point, we are a SMALL TEENY ITSY BITSY part of "reality". I really think we have no idea what is really out there, what scale of infinity there is that we really exist in. Just like an ant on its lil sandy hill can have no idea how big the earth really is and what is on the others side of a mile -much less 1/2 way around the earth from where they are. And just like ants robbing a picnic has no effect on our food supply - I believe we have no effect on real mother nature & climate change.
I think it is funny, people believe all the tall tale religious bs, but when it comes to aliens or something of possible higher intelligence than humans it is proposterous! A flying aircraft more advanced than ours - NO WAY! ... even though we can see that there is such a thing as flying aircrafts and ours have advanced through time as well. But - one thing I've never seen is water turn to wine in a blink, the sea part, dead man rise.. etc. etc. "

to JD wrote on Dec 22, 2008 6:44 AM:

" You hit the bullseye! Climate change is real, and has been around since the beginning of time. Man-made climate change is crap, and has been around since the beginning of government grants. "

France will lead wrote on Dec 22, 2008 2:47 AM:

" France is poised to be nuclear leader - December 8, 2008
http://www.startribune.com/business/35767334.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Bottom of article
Soon after his election 18 months ago, he toured countries from China to Libya to tout France's nuclear expertise, signing deals to open the way for French firms to sell reactors.
France has two competitive advantages in the field. First, it has the most recent and extensive experience of any country in building and operating nuclear plants. That has given Areva's "third-generation" reactor design, called the EPR, an edge over blueprints from its two big rivals: Westinghouse, now a unit of Toshiba of Japan, and GE Hitachi, a recently formed joint venture. Second, French engineers have developed a novel reprocessing technique, so that nuclear energy produces less waste than in other countries. "

Laura wrote on Dec 22, 2008 1:10 AM:

" To fp: I know all about the website I mentioned and I have learned a lot--thank you! Have you seen this incredibly stupid video from Greenpeace? I wonder who funds this organization and the others. I absolutely believe we should all be stewards of our planet! But not to further anyone's political agenda! They're counting on our ignorance to achieve money & power for themselves. Algore has reportedly made 10 million dollars from his "climate change" propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHYpYI8eXqw "

Carbon News wrote on Dec 22, 2008 12:54 AM:

" Aborigines warned on 'carbonbaggers'
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24811997-11949,00.html
Carbon crash hits Europe's emission trading scheme
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24608324-30538,00.html
Note that the carbon crash story is dated November 06, 2008 "

Point to Ponder wrote on Dec 22, 2008 12:44 AM:

" Couldnt agree more.. a politically motivated farce... people are getting super rich off of the whole global warming. "

Who exactly is getting super rich off of global warming? "

Carbon Jack wrote on Dec 22, 2008 12:25 AM:

" Be advised I have already copyrighted Carbon Trading The Board Game.
It is played like monopoly even including the go to jail.
The main difference is that instead of buying property you land on you will be buying or selling Carbon Credits.
If you draw a card that says a big smoky industry is moving in next to you that is good. It means all he needs to do is pay some carbon credits to the farmers whose crops are sucking up all the smoke.
Naturally in this game the industry will pay lobbyists to lobby the politicians to pass laws on how much the carbon credits cost. This being a windy low population area there will be special exceptions.
And if you buy stock in windmills your factory gets Carbon Credits and a tax write off.
If you buy stock in a windmill owned by a politician you will get money back on your federal taxes in my board game. "

RealMET wrote on Dec 22, 2008 12:19 AM:

" Whatever: The REAL scientists care not what the right or left think. They continue to plug away at their research. Everybody should ignore the far left and the far right, as they both have hidden agendas, mainly power or money related. "

JD wrote on Dec 21, 2008 11:32 PM:

" I remember sitting in science class at Simle Jr high school in the mid 1980's. The teacher handed out our "weekly reader magazine" and the cover headlines warned of "new ice age" caused by man. Now the same "scientists" who claimed man was freezing the Earth for future generations are CLAIMING were causing the planet to warm. Man made climate change is pure bunk, complete money making scam. "

Ready to trade some carbon wrote on Dec 21, 2008 6:28 PM:

" Carbon Trading is such a good idea. We need another stock market to gamble on.
Then we can hire experts to manage our portfolio. People in high places can make big money on insider trading.
Maybe banks will be able to loan money to industries to upgrade their filters. Then the banks will know in advance which industry is going to go from buying carbon credits to selling carbon credits and they can buy a chunk of them in the stock market.

No that is wrong. The ultimate insider trader will be the industry that sells the smokestack filters.

So who gets to regulate the percentage the carbon broker gets? Can anyone be a carbon broker?
I want to sit down at the table, where is my chips, what does it cost to buy into this game. What are the rules, or are we making them up as we play.

I am sure glad the liberals have been blocking the building of Nuclear Power Plants in this country. Only steam comes out of their smokestacks, which means they would get all the carbon credits. That is not playing fair.

France has a bunch of Nuclear Power Plants. It would be unfair to let them play at carbon trading. "

Comment wrote on Dec 21, 2008 4:47 PM:

" So - yearly variability is not indicative of long term trends - but it impacts the long-term trends, and so this colder than normal weather could have an impact and can't be denied. "

helena H basket wrote on Dec 21, 2008 2:20 PM:

" for crying out loud- global warming started back in the days of the wooly mammoth and the sabre toothed tigers.... our caveman anscestors were in the ice age. They invented the wheel, fire, primitive tools.... look what happened... global warming. We've been on a downward spiral since. .. seriously, I think the more things change, the more they stay the same. We know the earth has gone through major changes in it's millions of years. The henny penny's of the world scream the sky is falling and the sheeple follow. Does this mean it's okay to disrespect the earth, wild life, or natural rescources? NO! It's important to do what we can to preserve the earth and her resources. Common sense and moderation need to prevail. "

Dewdrop wrote on Dec 21, 2008 1:16 PM:

" WHATEVER wrote on Dec 19, 2008 4:50 PM:

" There is no real debate on global warming. It is factual and beyond question,

Blah, blah, blah, and more blah......Do you make money off Algore? He is the one benefiting from this folk lore!

In 1922 there was an article in the Monthly Weather Review for November 1922, that said basically this: The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, etc...
It was printed again in the Washinton Post August 2007.
Hers is the website I found it on:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/

30 years ago "all' the scientists were saying we were going into an ice age!

Yesterday I heard on TV one global warming nut saying the cold we are haing now is proof there is global warming! Now tell me that is not stupid!

Global Warming is a Hoax by people that want to make money off it, and they did! "

mom-of-teens wrote on Dec 21, 2008 12:13 PM:

" So just because it's cold in ND means that global warming doesn't exist?? Brilliant deduction! Whose the Einstein?? Why is this even a discussion? Research has already shown that global warming is both cyclic and man made. Yes, weather patterns are cyclic, but the pollution, carbon emissions, and other things that MAN has created is not HELPING and is contributing to the problem! Global warming a farce?? What a GREAT way for human beings to pass the buck and not take responsibility for SOME of their own actions! "

Eddy wrote on Dec 21, 2008 11:52 AM:

" Couldnt agree more.. a politically motivated farce... people are getting super rich off of the whole global warming. "

To Whatever wrote on Dec 21, 2008 11:15 AM:

" You said "the only scientific evidence that is valid is that which they agree with" when talking about the right. I think that description fits your views pretty well too. "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 21, 2008 10:28 AM:

" To RealMET: Yes, I agree that scientific research must continue. I don't really know of anyone that would dispute that. The problem with this debate is that those on the far right just regard all of it as a hoax or a leftwing conspiracy, and that the only scientific evidence that is valid is that which they agree with. "

whatifwrong wrote on Dec 21, 2008 9:50 AM:

" For the global warming detractors, two items: 1) yearly variability is not indicative of long term trends. 2) What if we do successfully reduce green house gasses and other pollution and global warming turns out to be false? We get cleaner air, cleaner water and leave a better world for our children and grandchildren. What if we do nothing and global warming turns out to be true? Potential environmental catastrophe for our children and grandchildren. I am erring on the side of caution for my children and grandchildren by taking the longer view beyond my own lifetime. What is your choice? Short sighted selfishness? "

To Free Will wrote on Dec 21, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Amen.

Global Cooling has far more catastrophic consequences because shortened growing seasons could cause mass starvation. Living in ND, I kind of like the idea of Global Warming so we don't have winters like this all the time!! "

free will wrote on Dec 21, 2008 6:57 AM:

" Let's start with a simple question. How many planets are there? 9 or 8? Science isn't always 100% accurate. Act localally think globally may be the best policy. I would rather have that than acting globally and thinking locally. We should take care of the earth we come in contact with but making more rules and laws isn't always the answer. "

Common Sense wrote on Dec 21, 2008 2:35 AM:

" sick of shoveling global warming every morning... "

watztheuse wrote on Dec 21, 2008 2:29 AM:

" <<says it all "

Still Waiting for ocean levels wrote on Dec 20, 2008 8:01 PM:

" I am still waiting for the oceans to all go up 20 feet.
We all know that the area of a circle is really basic math. The increase of an area of a circle is not much harder. Make a bigger circle and subtract.

If the majority of scientists cannot calculate ice melting into ocean water we are all in big trouble.

So what did it take them, about twenty years to figure out the oceans might only increase one foot.

Maybe it is time to junk the calculators and computers and go back to slide rules.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule

Remember when Steven Hawkins was claiming everything that went in a Black Hole would never come out. Finally he recanted.
We already knew because it violated the basic rule of science. Nothing disappears it just changes state. Like from liquid to gas or solid.

Maybe the medias are just to quick to make heroes out of anyone who rattles cages. We have a global pollution problem not a global warming problem.

And at this point putting only this country back in the Stone Age is not going to help.

Too bad that the liberals did everything possible to block Nuclear Power in this country 30 or 40 years ago. The only thing that comes out of nuclear power plants is steam. Uranium can be reprocessed.

And they only blocked nuclear power plants in this country?

They could have had credibility. But they blew it and blamed the energy problems on conservatives. But they won the election and now we can all go back to plowing with oxen.
Sure is too bad that no one will be able to afford to buy newspapers or televisions to watch the TV news. It was fun while it lasted.

I am sure the grandkids will enjoy living in whatever dictatorship follows this insanity. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 20, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Aha! I just discovered the agent of "global warming" and "climate change": proponents' intellectual flatulence. Some may disagree but I just say, "Whatever." "

Comment wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:38 PM:

" Unfortunately, those involved in the carbon trading industry like the hype as they stand to make a lot of money off of us. Might that include Al G,? You can believe that there are many lobbyists pushing to add the politics to this whole issue in Washington, D.C. so that they can make good money and buy lots of things that will result in the release of more carbon into the atmosphere. "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM:

" To Andrew: Another rightwing favorite - "thanks for making my point". Classic Rush Limbaugh. Also, I never said there was "equivalence" between anti-liberals and jihadists. I couldn't find a better phrase to describe anti-liberals, so that's what I used. I didn't realize conservatives were so touchy and "PC". "

RealMET wrote on Dec 20, 2008 4:55 PM:

" Whatever: I NEVER said that man-made global warming has No affect whatsoever. All along I've stated I question the degree humans have on climate change. The other variables need to be considered. I am a meteorologist, and anybody you ask in my field will say humans have some sort of impact. Eight of ten? I would say closer to 9 out of 10. Research needs to continue, otherwise the science becomes religion and worthless. Surely we can agree there? You could have done without the 'rightwing website' comment in making your point. I neither lean right or left in regards to this topic. "

dakota wrote on Dec 20, 2008 4:45 PM:

" I bet its do to the installation of geo-thermal heat pumps...ha ha
the 20 year pay back heating/cooling system ;) "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 20, 2008 3:02 PM:

" To RealMET: You have your sources, I have mine:

http://stats.org/stories/2008/global_warming_survey_apr23_08.html

There are many other sources, but this one is about as objective as I could find, and it says (dated April 24th 2008): "Over eight out of ten American climate scientists believe that human activity contributes to global warming, according to a new survey released by the Statistical Assessment Service (STATS) at George Mason University."

I'm sure you can find all kinds of rightwing websites that will say the opposite, and that's ok. It all comes down to what you want to believe. I'm going to stick my sources because I find them far more convincing. If I'm wrong, I guess the worst that will happen is that I will have conserved energy and recycled things, and I have saved money and did the planet a little bit of good. "

RealMET wrote on Dec 20, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Actually, more than a few scientists have come forward, especially recently, that want to put a stop to this bad science, thank God. Many of whom are very well-respected. If we understood completely what weight the other climate change variables had, I could very easily be convinced that somehow we are contributing. Until then Im not prepared to see badly needed money spent on obscene Kyoto carbon trading rather than feeding the poor. But again this doesnt mean we cant strive for cleaner energy.

Part of the Inconvenient Truth states that melting polar ice caps will raise our sea levels. That is wrong. The sea ice is already displacing ocean water, which means melting it does nothing, since the volume of melted water replaces the volume of ice. In science this is called the Archimedes principle. You can see this by conducting a very simple experiment at home using water and ice in a measuring cup. You may argue that land ice will also melt into the oceans. Much of this land ice sits in Greenland in the Northern Hemisphere, and Greenland sits in a geographic bowl and is highly unlikely to melt unless we REALLY increased AIR temperatures. Temperatures down south in Antarctica have shown little change. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 20, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Thanks for making my point, WHATEVER. Nice use of a liberal favorite, too: strawman. You were the one who used it; you are the one - even in your latest post - seeking to equivocate others as jihadists, then turn it around on me. THERE IS NO EQUIVALENCE between Conservatives/anti-liberals and jihadists so why not admit your error and be done with it? You still do not know the exact number of scientists involved in the issue or throwing their hat into the debate or stepping forward to support the global warming/global climate change theory today. If you could give the rest of us an exact figure then I would submit you'd have to know/give names or have a source to point us toward in order to verify a "majority" believe. Otherwise, you're relying on hearsay and this issue that affects personal responsibility, government policies, operational costs and taxes imposed on industry, the price of energy, etc. deserves better. "

Brain Drain wrote on Dec 20, 2008 1:14 PM:

" OK, I have a fun idea for anti-environmentalists like Bill and his rally squad.
1. Go grab a sheet of paper and a pen.
2. Write down a letter to your kids and grandkids.
3. Put it all down there. Explain why you had zero concern for the future, that even the possibility of the existence of global warming was too much for you to handle. So, you decided that Al Gore was an idiot, and trying to live more responsibly with your energy consumption or recycling or supporting green technologies wasn't worth your time. And that you honestly didn't give a hoot about the possibility that your children and grandchildren will have to work twice as hard to fix the problems you ignored. In fact, you were so convinced you were right, you swung even harder the other way, bought yourself a big ol' SUV you never needed, just because it made you feel bigger than you truly are. Write it all down.
4. Seal up those letters. Address one to your kids to open in 2020. One for your grandkids in 2050.
If you were right then, hey, kudos. It'll be a fun souvenir for your kids to remember you by, and I'm sure that by then they'll really be missing you, and it'll be nice to hear from you. If you're wrong, though, and everything's going as badly as environmentalists warned they might, then at least they'll know who to blame. Their stubborn grandpa, who spent his every moment in the basement, fuming and writing the same letter, over and over, to the Tribune.
Seems only fair that you put your money where your gigantic mouths are. Because those are the people who will pay for your actions. Your children and their's. "

Bounce Factor wrote on Dec 20, 2008 1:11 PM:

" The number one greenhouse gas is water vapor (clouds). So the real problem is that people paint their houses bright colors, usually white. Naturally a white house reflects sunlight back up for a second shot at the various gases including water vapor.

That is how we got out of Ice Ages. A larger number of volcanos would go off and when the sunlight was reflected up off of the snow and ice it got two chances to hit a gas atom.

We need to pass a law requiring all houses to be painted dark drab colors. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:42 PM:

" " If we could prove there is no such thing as global warming, maybe then the environmentalists will let all our factories come home?

In China all the environmentalists are in prison.

I have a friend who lives in Changchun, China. Changchun is home to China's transportation manuafacturing industry. By noon the skies are filled with black smog and breathing is difficult. In fact, you're better off smoking because a good smoker's cough allows the chunks of soot covered mucus to break loose and then you can hoark them out onto the sidewalk, which sounds disgusting to Americans, but public spitting is a common practice in China. Add in the common practices like dumping hazardous chemicals including mercury down the drain and creating unsafe products including cars that burst into flames on impact, sounds like a wonderful place to raise your perfect 1950s family.

Maybe the children can show father their new cancerous lumps after dinner while he reads the paper and breathes through his oxygen tank? "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:20 PM:

" To Andrew: Oh, yeah, now we have another strawman attack. I use the term "jihadist" to refer to anti-liberals and that automatically means that I am equating them with terrorists? What else am I supposed to call people who believe that liberals are always wrong about everything all the time, and are to blame for absolutely everything that is wrong in this world, and viciously attack liberals just because they are liberals? If someone can give me a more "PC" term for that, I will gladly use it.

Confused? No, I'm not the least bit confused about where I stand. I presented my point of view in very clear terms. When I said a "majority" of scientists, I was referring to those who have come forward on the issue of global warming. Those who have not stepped forward, just like those who do not vote, DO NOT COUNT. "

RealMET wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Whatever: Majority of scientists? Umm, I don't think so. Maybe according to the infamous UN panel on climate change, but not the real world my friend. In fact, many of those UN scientists now say more research needs to be done. There are many other well respected scientists who have not bought into this either. We barely understand our own sun, and meteorology is only a century old. To go out and say humans are the only cause for the recent warm-up of our climate is idiotic and dangerous. But like others have stated, that doesn't mean we can't lean towards cleaner energy. Just not recklessly. "

Tilted wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Ice Ages Blamed on Tilted Earth
http://www.livescience.com/environment/050330_earth_tilt.html
Read and be concerned "

Moons fault wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:01 PM:

" The moon does more than cause high tides in the oceans and volcanoes on the surface. The friction caused by the moon pulling and churning the earths molten core keeps it hot.
Please read:
Antarctica Volcanoes
http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Antarctica/description_antarctica_volcanoes.html
It is what the so-called environmentalists do not want you to know. Antarctic Ice melting because of Volcanoes. And like all volcanoes they give off Carbon Dioxide.

But why are fossils under the ice? Because the entire continent has moved south over millions of years dooming all land animals that once lived in its forests, some of which are now coal.

And every time a meteor hits the moon the orbit changes from the extra mass and gravitation.

And every year when continents move a few inches the ocean currents change a little.

The earth already has a wobble similar to a childs spinning top that is wobbling and about to fall over. But our wobble takes 26,000 years for one wobble and helps take us in and out of Ice Ages. Right now we are in the warming part between Ice Ages.
Earths Wobble
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/earth_wobble_010131.html

So please do not blame the Sun. It is doing its best. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:57 AM:

" To WHATEVER: holy stinkin' cow!!! "Jihadists"? You have got to be kidding. No wonder many can't take what you say seriously. There is NO comparison or moral equivalence between Conservatives or anti-liberalists and Islamic jihadists. I've yet to see one ideologue on the Right take up arms against, or kidnap and cut the heads off of anyone on the left. The Virgin Mary portrayed last week on the cover of Mexico's edition of PLAYBOY... where were the Roman Catholics calling for a
Christian version of a "fatwah"; where were they, en masse, protesting in the streets and burning flags and Hugh Hefner in effigy? Nowhere, because there is no parallel. What an absurd thing to say... "anti-liberal 'jihadists.'" Liberalism is so morally confusing it shouldn't surprise me that you are also scientifically gullible. A majority of scientists? There's now way to actually determine that since you do not know the actual number of scientists in the world and since when did a "majority" consensus matter to you folks on the left? If consensus and majority were paramount then slavery in the US would never have been a debatable issue. You are confused either because you want to be or because you lack critical thinking skills. And before the Online Editor du jour decides that I am attacking WHATEVER, bear in mind I have not called him/her any names and the questions I raise are germane to the debate at hand. Geez. "

fp wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:37 AM:

" Laura, who funds that website? You have to look into it......you might learn something. "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Ok, so now we have another stroke of brilliant logic: there was an ice age in the distant past followed by the glaciers melting. Therefore it is impossible for human activity to cause or at least contribute to global warming today. Please come up with something better than that. "

Rebecca wrote on Dec 20, 2008 9:50 AM:

" To Whatever and RealMet: "Propaganda" has a negative connotation, but it just means presenting one opinion to the exclusion of any contradicting opinion. Both sides do that. Also, "Whatever" many scientists agree that climate change is happening, but disagree whether it is primarily man-made, whether it will be good or bad in the long term, and what the exact ramifications will be. The idea that we know what will happen and that humankind is pushing itself to extinction with bad behavior is simply "alarmist" and many scientists are against that. (RE: Inconvenient Truth-see this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7037671.stm)
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june022008/global_warming_6-2-08.php
Also, science lives and breathes off of dissent and debate. Good scientists are constantly working to disprove their own theories because the only way to prove something is to show that it cannot be disproven. For scientists to say, "no more debate, we don't want to hear it" turns global climate change into a doctrine intead of a solid science. "

To Whatever wrote on Dec 20, 2008 9:04 AM:

" Please explain to all of us non-believers in the Global Warming Cult exactly how the glaciers receded from North Dakota. Exactly how did man play into that? "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 20, 2008 8:17 AM:

" To RealMET: You are making false assumptions when you say that "This isn't science to you, this is a religion." You assume that I am just blindly following Al Gore and believe everything he says without any other information. The bottom line is I have listened to all sides, and here is what I found:

1) The majority of scientists that say we are in a global climate crisis caused by human activity, backed up with enormous amounts of evidence.

2) Far fewer scientists that are more skeptical, and are able to pose the possibility of other factors causing or contributing to the undeniable climate change we are in.

3) The anti-liberal "jihadists" who offer selective information, or information that is completely made up, and paranoid accusations of a leftwing conspiracy and ridiculous nonsense such as: "hey it's cold out, therefore there is no global warming".

Given those 3 choices, I go with #1 because it is the most convincing to me. Those in the #2 category have credibility, but just not as convincing to me, and those in #3 are unfortunately the majority in this discussion, and have no credibility at all. "

Laura wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:15 AM:

" To Whatever: Just because there's dissent about man-made global warming doesn't mean the dissenters don't want to do what's right for our planet. You don't have to be rude to people who disagree with you. Below is a link to a website that is really informative--go ahead--you might learn something.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/ "

Gary G. wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:15 AM:

" Global Warming??? Explain to me then how we have found moss under the antarctic? The sun spots control our weather and any idiot who thinks differently is just that an idiot.

Maybe those dummies, who still insist on believing Global Warming is out there can run to uncle Al Gore and beg him to sell them Carbon Credits from one of his 6 companies, which just so happens to sell those very same credits, so they can buy a clean conscience! "

RealMET wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:05 AM:

" To Whatever: You are obviously not going to be swayed from your opinion. Fine. But I refuse to let YOUR propaganda dominate any part of this discussion. You continue to resort to name calling 'right-wing propagandists' or 'right-wing propaganda websites', which belittles your posts and arguments. You say 'It is just a waste of time' and 'All I ask is this: if you are going to continue this worthless discussion, please at least step aside so the rest of us can work toward saving the planet'. What you stated proves my point entirely. This isn't science to you, this is a religion. You are dead-set that climate change is ENTIRELY man-made. You care not what weight the other variables in climate hold. People, this is EXACTLY the mindset that ALgore and national media have. God help us all if this thinking becomes policy. Yes, cleaning up the Earth is a great idea. But let's be sensible about it. "

Laura wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:51 PM:

" To Whatever and fp: check out this website-they know more about this than you do. Go ahead-you might learn something!

http://wattsupwiththat.com/ "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:53 PM:

" To RealMET: You call it namecalling, but I just call it as I see it. And to the other right-wing propagandists: you can list as many right-wing propaganda websites as you like, but I do not consider facts versus lies a "debate". It is just a waste of time. All I ask is this: if you are going to continue this worthless discussion, please at least step aside so the rest of us can work toward saving the planet. "

fp wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:40 PM:

" "I may be the dumbest guy in the world" Well Bill I can tell you get your info and talking points from blowhard drug addled Rushbo. The tribune only lowers its ever low standards by printing your "views". "

Laura wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 PM:

" To Traveler: IMO, It's not the environmentalists who are the problem, it's the environmental EXTREMISTS (Al Gore et al) who are promoting "global climate change" as unrefutable fact. Why are they doing this? For power and money! "

RealMET wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:45 PM:

" To Whatever: There you go again. If you find somebody does not agree with your POV, you proceed to name calling, even bashing North Dakota. I would think you would be happy given the recent elections, but of course somebody like you will never be happy, until we're all as miserable as you are. Science is all about debate, otherwise it is no longer science. When it ceases to be science, it becomes religion...and media becomes propaganda. "

green wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:29 PM:

" you all make no sense,, the earth is going to do what it is going to do... Y do we have to destroy ourselves by what we do. "

John wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:19 PM:

" I dont have a problem with being good stewards of our planet, but it is being studied right now how the earth is the same temperature as it was in 1980. The same sattelite that checks the whole earths temp is doing that test.
It is also a fact that the ice caps are getting bigger right now as I type, back to normal. levels as it has been a bit more chilly this year.
I wonder what the dinos' did to create there glbal warming, they must have farted alot or something, I would ask one, but the good old earth needed to make oil for us, so thank goodness for that gloabl warming. It was once so warm, ND was a beach, to the ocean. We must have caused that too. I study history. Not speculation. And I really dont put much thought into somebody who made millions off of doomsaying this year. History tells us that we have been way hotter, and way colder. What are you going to do, mother earth will take care of us, we have no control over that lady. Some ego driven people think they can. Can we as a human race control some of it, sure, if we let it get to bad. Smog isnt good for anyone, and I think we are on the right track, but humans will be the cause of the extinction of the human race. No doubt in my mind. "

The Lorax wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:12 PM:

" Doesn't anybody read Dr. Suess to their kids? Read "The Lorax" he will explain it all to you, so even, the dumbest guy in the world can understand, Dr. Suess even has fun pictures, which is more than Al Gore has!! It's just a matter of taking care of things. You can't use up all you have, you can't pollute up the all the water, land and the air we breathe. That's called common sense. There are things we could do to cut back on the pollution and wasting of natural resources. What harm does that do anyone? So lets say it is all a farce and some day all we have done is made our planet clean for the next generation, how is that bad? "

Traveler wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:11 PM:

" I get a kick out of those who bash 'environmentalists'. Aren't we all concerned about the health of our environment? Doesn't everybody like to breath clean air, drink clean water, and eat healthy food grown in soil that is absent poisons? "

kenny wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:55 PM:

" I think there is global warming, at least thats what was in my mind when I was shoveling snow today!! Has anyone else seen a story on how the EPA is discussing ways to charge farmers for the methane gas there cattle and pigs produce? Honestly I heard this story about a week ago and thought it had to be a joke, just curious on how they plan on keeping track of whos cow is farting the most? I'm sure AL GORE will find out. "

To Whatever wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:15 PM:

" "No real debate"? What about this? There is plenty of scientific skepticism!

http://co2sceptics.com/
http://co2sceptics.com/news.php?id=1396
http://www.climateaudit.org/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
http://www.junkscience.com/ "

GG wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:55 PM:

" Let me try,& explain some of the tempurature differences!! You folks can be the judges, if what i am saying makes sense,or not??
O.K. ! In months we call winter,there are more fuels being used for heating!
Which, causes more carbon pollution! Which,blocks out some of the suns effectiveness! Which, makes it colder! Like even when you let your car,or truck run to warm it up! In the summer months we are not using all of these extra fuels!
Thus less pollution! thus more heat from the sun! As years go by there are more people! thus more pollution! Your turn?? "

Whatif wrote on Dec 19, 2008 5:26 PM:

" If we could prove there is no such thing as global warming, maybe then the environmentalists will let all our factories come home?

In China all the environmentalists are in prison. Why do our environmentalists let us buy goods made in Chinese factories? No loyalty?

http://jade.ccccd.edu/grooms/goodwife.htm

When something is true it is always true. "

Laura wrote on Dec 19, 2008 4:59 PM:

" Of course we have to take care of our planet, but we're going to pay dearly for this hoax "Global Warming", now called "Global Climate Change". Algore is making a fortune from it! I shudder to think what he and Obama are cooking up to "save our planet". Whatever it is-hold on to your wallets!
Here's a link to a report that is very interesting-titled: "U.S. Senate Minority Report: 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warning Claims. Scientists Continue to Debunk the "Consensus" of 2008.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9 "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 19, 2008 4:50 PM:

" There is no real debate on global warming. It is factual and beyond question, but of course in the backward state of ND where the conservatives have schooled themselves up by listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching Fox News, we have to keep debating it while the rest of the world moves forward. "

To John wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:26 PM:

" That is hilarious.....thank you for the laugh "

RealMET wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:20 PM:

" Rebecca, I really liked your post. We do need to take care of our planet, but at the same time we don't have to go off the deep end. Like I said, science needs to be re-introduced into the climate change discussion. In science, the debate is never over by definition. We need to understand the other variables in play here and not just go on one theory alone from the very beginning. It's madness if we do! Enough said..... "

gggg wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:06 PM:

" So bill we may be freezing but why do the glaciers continue to melt? I don't really believe in global warming either, but thats one fact you have to look at. "

John wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:45 PM:

" This is funny, watch it. Warms me up laughing on a cold day, some of you might get all huffy, but oh well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPSUMBrJoI "

Dave wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:35 PM:

" Right on RealMET! Thanks for your input! "

Rebecca wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:31 PM:

" I don't necessarily believe in "global climate change" as caused by humans, (it seems to be very doomsday-like) but I do believe in environmentalism in the sense that I think that people should reduce, reuse, and recycle. Not necessarily because the world will come to an end, but because I believe in leaving places the way they were.
Being more responsible about the energy you spend and the way you consume shouldn't only be brought on by fear incentive....it should be something you do because it is good for the environment.
And also, the people who "buy" carbon credits? That is a load of crap that environmentalists didn't use to let people or companies get away with, and now it is the hip thing to do? Capitalism has even poisoned environmentalists. (What, reduce? No, I'd rather buy the convenience of not having to, thanks.) "

Why the Change wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:27 PM:

" There really was a super continent over 200 million years ago. Dinosaurs roamed on it. Big piles of Dinosaur excrement produced more than a little methane.

There was only one ocean so we can assume ocean currents were different.

As Pangaea broke apart the Atlantic Ocean was created. The Pacific Ocean has been getting smaller ever since.

The so called Ring of Fire volcanoes mostly around the edge of the Pacific subduction zones, spew out huge amounts of carbon dioxide and ash. Sometimes a really big volcano will shoot ash into orbit blocking much sunlight for many years. In the Dark Ages the Rhine River froze and crops failed. The oceans produced fewer fish, no doubt because the base of the ocean food chain is plankton. Plankton requires sunlight.

Here is a .gov site that explains Pangaea.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/historical.html

Do a search about Volcanoes and read about the Pacific Oceans Ring of Fire. "

RealMET wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:23 PM:

" And 'whatever', just because people don't agree with man-made warming, you ALWAYS label them 'conservative' or a 'right winger'. All you can do is resort to name-calling whenever somebody disagrees with you. And my friend, the false propaganda in this debate comes from BOTH sides, not just the one that disagrees with your POV. The weather data you speak of going back hundreds of thousands of years in fact does show cycles. All of it in fact, even the recent data trends. I know this because as a meteorologist I work closely with this data. If it were only carbon dioxide driving our climate, we would continue to warm. Instead 2008 has cooled compared to the last several years. Is it a coincidence that sunspot activity (and hence solar output) has decreased this year? There needs to be more science in regards to climate change, and less politics. "

RealMET wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:22 PM:

" Believe me people, our existence is MUCH better off with a warming climate than if we were transitioning towards another Ice Age. There are hundreds of scientists who are now speaking out AGAINST the man-made global warming ONLY theory, whom before were associated with the 2006 IPCC report (United Nations climate report) that really pushed this whole thing in the first place. It also seems the mainstream media is starting to rethink this as well (CNN, TWC, etc). The UN climate models have already shown to contain gross errors, and we're only several years into their 50-100 year model!! Their models greatly underscore key variables in climate such as cloud cover percentage and solar output. As a meteorologist myself 'Deb', we've NEVER in the past had the ability to predict long term patterns. It's only been the last 10-30 years where we've starting to identify patterns such as El Nio, PDO, etc....and the predictability is increasing as we learn what drives these cycles not decreasing. There has always been wicked weather and there always will be. To blame it all on man-made global warming is very unscientific. "

Del wrote on Dec 19, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Hundreds of years ago, heck, warmers will reject indisputable science (real science) that is just four months old if it does not fit their mold.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/11jul_solarcycleupdate.htm

Wow .... it matches Algore's global warming model except for the last two years where the temperature went down. Algore's model shows the temperature going up. But let's just reject this indisputable fact because it does not fit in with what warmers want to believe..... "

Del wrote on Dec 19, 2008 1:24 PM:

" "Scientists have been able to track weather patterns going back 600,000 years or more from extracting ice samples in the Antarctic and according to that they can conclude that the current warming of our planet is not cyclical."

These are at best guesses and the results are disputed. I am not going to starve myself over that or shut down our economy.

What about the Mideivil warming period when Greenland was actually green? Much warmer than it was a few years ago, no SUVs, no power plants, and no evil capitalist America. What is wrong with the written and recorded evidence from just a few hundred years ago? Is it not good enough, or does it just not show the results that prove your case?

That's global warming "science", reject inconvenient truths ..... "

CLC wrote on Dec 19, 2008 1:18 PM:

" The irony is that those who support global climate change and the thought that humans can have a significant effect, do so at the cost of believing the Earth is not very old, while the religous right, who do not beleive in global warming essentially beleive it is the natural climate pattern of the 4-5 billion year old Earth, which contradicts their core belief in creationism....to Astronomy 101, quit confusing us with the facts!! "

Edward wrote on Dec 19, 2008 1:12 PM:

" To Whatever: Those 600,000 year ice core samples show the the temperature was the same until Al Gore said that global warming started. Since then it is hotter every year. So send Al's company money to offset your carbon footprint. "

the old navy wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:51 PM:

" To Del: I would not take too much stock in what I read from Wikipedia. One this site you can put everything and anything you want.

I do not believe in global warming. I think that Mother Nature is just going through one of her many cycles. I would think that they last thousands of years, just a drop in the bucket compared to her age. The human race just happens to be caught in the middle of one of them.

You all have a great day! "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:50 PM:

" It is so unfortunate that a debate like this is based on so much false propaganda. For example, someone said that we only have weather data going back a hundred years or so. This is completely false. Scientists have been able to track weather patterns going back 600,000 years or more from extracting ice samples in the Antarctic and according to that they can conclude that the current warming of our planet is not cyclical. "

jim wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:14 PM:

" do yourself a favor and examine at tree ring study of 5 oak trees northwest of bismarck by a gentleman by the name of george f. will. his study is published as an NDSU AG bulletin 338, there is a graph of his work on the east wall of the ND Heritage Center. from 1406 to 1946 there are years of wet cycles and dry cycles, some dry cycles were 15 years, some only 4 or six. some wet cycles are 18 years, 7 years, one he rated at 39 years. the point is this; in a published bulletin he clearly shows the cyclic nature of precipitation in and around bismarck for over 500 years. it was cyclic then and is today. does this show trends of global warming, no, but it does show the cyclie nature of our climate, and it is published data! "

Capitalist wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:03 PM:

" Ali,

"Earth goes through natural cycles, yes, but this time we're contributing to the change"

Okay, prove it without using the so called "consensus". You can't because no real scientific proof exists. Even Algore knows this much. "

Chad wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:02 PM:

" I agree with those who say that global warming is a hoax. And that doesn't mean that we're condoning pollution of the earth. I want a clean planet, too. I just don't think humans are the cause of this 1-2 degree warming of the earth. Compare the size of a SUV to the size of the sun. I think the sun is more responsible. "

Del wrote on Dec 19, 2008 12:01 PM:

" Snowman,

Great point. If the government could use UFO's, the Lochness monster, martians, ghosts, and Elvis being alive to restrict our freedoms, tax us more, and reign in communism, they would use that too.

Global Warming is a politically motivated hoax. The motive is more taxes, more control over our lives, to destroy capitalism to create dependence on government, and wealth redistribution. It is all about power, and not the kind that is supposedly warming the planet.

It is fun to watch global warmers explain away then the temperatures of the last two years bust the Algore model. His prediction didnt come true, now it needs to be rationalized. I suppose politicians will rush to restrict so called greenhouse gasses so that they can claim to have saved the planet.

Its a hoax folks!!! Lets start drilling!!! Lets build more oil refineries!!!! Lets start building more coal plants!!!!

By the way, scientists have concluded that the Lockness Monster was killed by global warming. One said it, his opinion was published, so we not have a consensus. I personally believe that nessie was deep fried, rolled in bacon, dipped in butter, and then eaten by Elvis.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/02/13/veteran-loch-ness-monster-hunter-gives-up-86908-20317853/ "

ME wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:57 AM:

" " Global warming is the new religion. Our economy is to be sacrificed at its altar. "

You said it best Amen!!!! "

Deb wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Who's a global climate change "proponent?" That doesn't make any sense. You can do one of two things: you can do your part to clean up the earth and lower your carbon footprint, or you can be like Bill, and stick your head in the sand while still shaking your fists as people who are doing good for the planet.

No one cares if you believe in it or not - that's not the point. Either do your part or be quiet about it. No one is hurting anything here. Green jobs/industries are actually helping the economy. Pickens Plan anyone?? "

Dave wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:38 AM:

" I can only agree with the majority of the replies on here: Global warming, climate change, whatever the heck you want to call it is going to happen and always has happened whether people are the cause of it or not. What caused the ice age? Too many animals farting I suppose. I'm sure all those crazy dinosaurs farted themselves out of existince too. Do we need to quit polluting and doing harmful things to the environment? Sure but we don't need a bunch of wackos telling us that temperature records from .0001% of the earth's time can tell us what the "average" should be. Maybe the last 100 years were colder than normal! "

Comment wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:24 AM:

" If we analyze climate over the long term, rather than the day to day changes, North Dakota has gone from glaciers to swamps. What we are seeing in swings and changes today is probably very minute to what has happened in the past. And we're certainly not forming any coal in North Dakota right now. "

Bystanding Reader wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:09 AM:

" If you want to help the environment there is something everyone can do pretty easily. Plant a tree! Trees/bushes/grass take in carbon dioxide and give off oxygen. We all learned this basic fact in elementary school. This is the easiest quickest and probably cheapest way to help the environment. "

Snowman wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:45 AM:

" UFO's, Lochness monster, global warming, martians, ghosts, Elvis is alive, honest politicians.....get the "snow" drift? "

Ali wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:39 AM:

" Whether you like the term "global warming" or not, the reality is that we are affecting the earth's climate. Just because there's a blizzard when you look out the window today doesn't mean that years from now we won't see a drastic change in the environment. Earth goes through natural cycles, yes, but this time we're contributing to the change - and not in a positive way. Does it really hurt for "wacko environmentalists" to be concerned with the fate of the planet we know and love?

Ignorance really *is* our worst enemy, Bill. "

Del wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 AM:

" Great letter Bill! I was thinking the same thing. Bravo!!!!!!!!!

I wonder how global warmers explain the Midieval warming period (before capitalism, before electricity, and before the evil SUV?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

How about the fact that the atmosphere of Mars is 95% carbon dioxide and is much colder than the Earth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars

How about the fact that the Earth started to cool at the same time that sun did?

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/11jul_solarcycleupdate.htm

A reasonable person would conclude that the sun is responsible for warming and cooling periods, but then again the capitalist hating global warming enthusiasts are not rational. Facts just do not matter to the global warmers. They desperately want to believe in the global warming religion and their messiah Algore. Convincing a global warmer otherwise would be like trying to convince a devout Christian to give up their religion. "

Snap wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:24 AM:

" he wrote this ame letter and it was published last year or the year before. What is this guy's beef? He always rants and the Trib prints far too many of his letters. "

Blah blah and more blah wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:21 AM:

" This letter to the editor is the great farce. Even as the Earth warms there will still be cold snaps in the northern and southern latitudes during the winter.

You have to look at the whole story of yearly temperature averages and those yearly temperature averages are going up and up and up.

Soon the fabled and long searched for Northwest Passage will be reality.

I am happy I am old and will soon not be here to witness the debacle the head in the sand humans have created.

This letter to the editor is just more tedious blah, blah and blah.

Ostrich humans, look toward the planet Venus, that is your model and that is why it is there. "

Forward Observer wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:42 AM:

" As humans, we've been tracking weather for a little over 100 years. Is 100 years of data on something as extreme as weather enough time to make a definitive assessment of the planet's weather patterns? 100 years is a miniscule "blip" on the radar that is the planet's weather. Anyone that thinks humans have any control or effect over "Mother Nature" needs to think again.

A human is intelligent and rational. Humans (note the plural) are skiddish, irrational, and unable to qualify information based on reason. Global climate change is mass hysteria, not based on objective scientific fact. Statistics can be skewed any way a researcher or politician wants them. "

warmachine wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:40 AM:

" Astronomy 101 has the vernacular correct. To think that a few hundred years of weather data is the basis for global warming? "Arrogant" thinking it is. Mother Nature's age alone makes our data but a mote in time's eye. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:14 AM:

" You're right Bill, we shouldn't hold back industry with wacko environmental regulations and left wing standards. We should de-regulate all environmental protections. After all, deregulation did wonders for the banking and finance industry. "

Joe wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:14 AM:

" I often wonder how some of you who think you know so much take a small chunk of the pie and call it fact. When you look back over years, centuries or even decades you are still not seeing the full picture. Data is so scewed towards the way the environmentalists want to see it it's almost scary. Preach of long term data, well then look at the long term data. Not hudreds of years, but thousands and then show me your global "climate change" and how man has made it worse since the industrial revolution. "

Kimberly wrote on Dec 19, 2008 9:00 AM:

" Funny, I was just reading a news article yesterday about the real facts of Global Climate Change. Every winter we get the same people all in denial about what humans are doing to our one and only home. "Oh it's so cold out...global warming is a left-wing ploy!" Well, I tend to lean right and I know this is a huge problem. Even our super-Republican president with all his stock in oil companies believes this. But just because an artic system from the north comes down over the country and makes us all cold, we can deny the FACT of global climate change? I think this writer needs to get out of his little bubble and look and the world at large. I'm sorry, but this is one thing not worth being open-minded about, especially when it is my generation and the ones after us who have to fix this mess just so we can survive. "

Get Real wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Deb, once again you go back to the Democratic cue card. Saying we will see both highs and lows is like betting on both the teams playing to win the Super Bowl. Is this much snow and low temperature abnormal for North Dakota? Well if your reference is the last five years, than yes, but if you look over the history of the state this is a drop in the bucket, compared to some of the winters we have had. So you can continue being Chicken Licken and believe the sky is falling or be like me and let my big gas guzzling truck run all day so it is warm, either way the Mother Nature is going to do what she darn well pleases. "

WHATEVER wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Ok, a North Dakota "expert", with no scientific proof other than the reading on his thermometer in December, has now declared Global Warming to be a farce, therefore it is a farce. The scientists who say otherwise, with all their years of work, research, and evidence, not to mention the evidence I have seen with my own eyes from all over the world, is wrong because conservative ideology says so. "

Andrew wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Deb, the proponents just hope, while hopping from hypothesis to hypothesis, they finally land on something substantive. First, it was a return to the ice age from pollution in the 1970s (actually taught by my public school teachers the likes of your mother). When that didn't materialize, it was global warming of the 1990s. When that began to change this past decade, the early birds in search of a worm have coined the term climate change. Higher highs and lower lows is a crock. The opining experts who vie for government grants to pay their bills, well, their findings are always going to suspect to the cynic and critical thinker. When North Dakota, for example, begins to get warmer and more precipitous, thus a reversion to its cypress swamp days, or it progresses into a desert SW ecology, then let's talk about climate change. ND winters, springs, summers and falls are still doing their historical thing... at least as long as records have been kept. "

Astronomy 101 wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:37 AM:

" Climate change has affected the Earth for billions of years. North Dakota was once tropical, then it was covered by glaciers for thousands of years. As little as 18,000 years ago (just a blip in the history of the planet), North Dakota was glacial. Then the earth began warming enough to melt the glaciers back to the polar caps, without any input from man. In another 18,000 years, North Dakota might once again be covered by glaciers.

Who has the arrogance to declare that the temperatures of 1990 are the new baseline for the future? What if the Earth's true baseline is 20 degrees higher than what we have today? To think man can overpower the ability of the sun and the earth to warm and cool the planet is asinine. "

Napolean wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:36 AM:

" Global Warming is nothing more than bad science to promote good politics! (Al Gore). The earths atmosphere is in the midst of a 1500 year cycle that has occurred since the beginning of time!! "

Edward wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Ok Bill, it is clear global warming exists, Look at the weather in Bismarck lately. It is cold and that cold is caused by global warming. Go ahead and prove me wrong. "

Yup wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:23 AM:

" Wow- so one rain shower and there is suddenly no drought? You eat a carrot and are suddenly on a diet? Give me a break.
Yup, Bill- you hit the nail on the head. "I may be the dumbest guy..." And that common sense you speak of? Ha. Keep looking. "

To Deb wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:17 AM:

" Deb - why don't you explain. I would hate to hear that your extreme fears have no basis. "

Law wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:07 AM:

" Deb, when did we ever have the means to forecast long term weather? They can't even get 5 day forecast remotely accurate. There is no doubt that the earth's weather and climate change, it has done it forever. Long before man came along. The scam part is where the doom and gloom climate changers say human existance is the main culprit. "

green wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:57 AM:

" nice editorial when its cold out,, tis the season,,,,

so , global warming is a farce,,, why is it necessary to pollute the air we all breath, with black smoke,

or, pollute the water , we need to drink with industrial , agricultural, commercial , and residential wasted.

or chop down forests for paper.....
not necessary..

all of you that believe that global warming is a farce,, just think about this stuff. its common sense. "

Weather Buff wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:57 AM:

" Over the last 30 years, the sun has been producing more heat. The sun is variable. This fact can be measured by temperature fluctuations on other planets in our solar system. Mars has ice caps, which are also receding. Look it up, if you don't believe.

The real truth about "global climate change" is that the powers that be, will latch onto ANYTHING they can find to use against the populace for their further enrichment. Global warming is the avenue that takes them to their biggest dream ever - the selling of carbon credits (otherwise known as a tax on carbon dioxide or a tax on life itself.)

They cannot wait to tax ever single person for every breath they take, every good or service consumed, and anything they do. Even though the solar system is cooling, they continue the pursuit of their evil goal. "

Doug wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:53 AM:

" "you and I can look forward to major swings in temps and little to no security in weather patterns. This winter might be cold and snowy, next winter might be warm & dry. Yes, weather is cyclical, but we've lost the ability to predict long term patterns. All that's known for sure is that we better buckle up for some wicked weather! "
How is that any different than the last few million years?
So Deb are you agreeing with Bill, trying to refute Bill's argument, or just felt like being rude to Bill? Intelligent, independent thinking people know it's a scam. "

BabyT wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:43 AM:

" More people are starting to realize we are changing the planet one way or another. Global warming is an unfortunate name to call it, because people look outside, see it is cold, and therefore think global warming is a big scam. In reality global warming is causing the average temperature to rise a very small amount, maybe 1 degree. That doesn't mean you are going to have a nice warm winter. It means our past weather trends are tossed out the window, and we are more prone to have extremes in weather. Watch the news, we are breaking weather records at BOTH ends of the mercury on a regular basis. "

to amen wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:39 AM:

" You should frame those words! That was an excellent comment! "

bladerunner wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:26 AM:

" Wow. ND has major swings in tempatures and it's all caused by global warming? I thought that was part of living in ND for the past fifty years. No Bill, your not smart enough to understand, you have to listen to a recent Grad from what BSC? "

D wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:10 AM:

" global
/globl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [gloh-buhl] Show IPA Pronunciation
adjective
1. pertaining to the whole world; worldwide; universal: the dream of global peace.
2. comprehensive. "

Reality Check wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:10 AM:

" Bill Say's
"I may be the dumbest guy in the world, but Ilike to think that Ihave some degree of common sense."
I agree with part of that statement Bill, now let's talk about "common sense"
As global warming progress's the ocean currents change and they bring extreme weather, both hot and cold, just because its 20 below means nothing. we could get even colder weather as global warming gets worse.
Science aside, why wouldn't we want to try and use less oil ? It could only result in a cleaner planet, less dependance on mideast oil ( something we all claim to want) less money to countries who hate us and a much brighter future,... unless your in the oil business "common sense" tells me " this is a no brainer" "

JustMe wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:04 AM:

" What you are basing your assumptions on is weather, the long term picture is warming. Don't look at Global Warming over the last year or two, you need to look at the past few decades and even centuries. Ya, I don't agree with all of it or the reason some people say is causing it, but it is happening.

Same as me claiming in the summer on a 110 degree day that we are experiencing an ice age. "

Traveler wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:02 AM:

" Global warming isn't the difference between "sitting here in my home in Bismarck this morning, Dec. 14, watching the TV news weather, which is 10 below zero, with a wind chill factor of minus 32 degrees" and what the weather was last week.

It's the macro effects over much longer time periods. There is a direct and measureable correlation between the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, the beginning of the period we call the Industrial Revolution, and decreases in arctic sea ice, lake and river volumes, precipitation, glacier and permafrost thawing, and changes in plant and animal distributions and abundances.

We, through our practices and lifestyles, are affecting the world we live in. We live like we're the last generation to inhabit the Earth. "

Deb wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:45 AM:

" "I may be the dumbest guy in the world" -- you said it, Bill!

The term is Global Climate Change. The rise in global temps by 1-2F causes higher highs and lower lows. You are in the, how did you put it... "dumbest" faction of people who hear "global warming" think that everywhere should be hot like Africa.

Nope, Bill - you and I can look forward to major swings in temps and little to no security in weather patterns. This winter might be cold and snowy, next winter might be warm & dry. Yes, weather is cyclical, but we've lost the ability to predict long term patterns. All that's known for sure is that we better buckle up for some wicked weather! "

amen wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:43 AM:

" Global warming is the new religion. Our economy is to be sacrificed at its altar. "

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