Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Lights are changing too quickly

Lights are changing too quickly

Sep 30, 2008 - 04:05:22 CDT

By DARYL BALERUD
Bismarck

Recently, the Bismarck Tribune printed an article regarding increases in ticketing drivers running red lights.

Several years ago, I was in contact with the director of transportation regarding my concerns with the vehicle signal change intervals. The amount of time yellow lights allow you to turn left or right and get through an intersection is extremely quick. I observed what I felt was unnecessary road rage because of this. One of the lights discussed was at the intersection of State Street and I-94. Another one was at the intersection of State Street and Century Avenue.

These are primarily the ones I am familiar with because at the time I lived on the north side of the city. There are several others throughout Bismarck. The lights with arrows allow only two to three seconds when it is yellow before turning red. In order for any driver to go through these yellow lights during time allowed, they would have to be speeding or driving recklessly or stop at yellow lights and get rear ended.

A while ago, I was crossing Century Avenue on North Washington Street. I pushed the crosswalk button and both times (going south and going north) I was unable to get halfway across the intersection before the "Don't Walk" sign appeared. I was almost hit by a car making a right turn onto Century Avenue because I was still crossing when the light changed - and I am a fast walker!

In the past, I have contacted various departments at the city, state and federal levels and everyone said it was someone else's responsibility. I did receive documentation from the Bismarck Engineering Department showing the national standards and formulas. What good do national standards and formulas do for the city of Bismarck? I feel these standards are extremely inadequate and could use considerable improvement. My concern is with the anticipated growth of our city. If we can't handle a traffic light and pedestrian crosswalk issue, what kind of infrastructure will we have as an end result?

News > Opinion

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Comments

Hog Man wrote on Oct 7, 2008 7:34 PM:

" Joe, you hit the nail on the head with a big part of the local problem. What's worse is that it's really not just the geriatric crowd that can't find the accelerator pedal (or the turn signal lever, the tilt wheel adjustment, seat controls, wallet, painted parking space lines, etc.) but a whole lot of much younger people who already drive like they've been bad drivers for the past 6-7 decades.

If there were a "stupid law" on the books that says if you catch someone doing something stupid behind the wheel you could fine them $5, payable on the spot, I could rake in a substantial income by just driving across town and back once a day. This town's drivers are truly pathetic. "

GARRY wrote on Oct 7, 2008 7:13 PM:

" To joe; I agree with you also!! Even though i happen to be an old guy,that drives a Buick!! But, when you mentioned how the young guy's drive,you forgot to mention
injury's,&death's!! And to let you know,my wife yells at me speeding all the time!!
So,now i make her drive most of the time!! So,guess who got a speeding ticket??
Thanks ! "

Joe is right wrote on Oct 7, 2008 4:44 PM:

" to Joe: I agree with you completely on everything you stated in both posts. "

joe wrote on Oct 7, 2008 2:00 PM:

" When I become old and cant drive, i wont. I think that it wouldnt be a bad idea to have people past a certain age to take their drivers test again to see if they are still safe to drive. Also there are speed limits to keep people safe, and if some one is driving 10 mph below the speed limit and everyone else is doing the speed limit, that is unsafe, and a hazard to everyone else. "

You too wrote on Oct 7, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Joe: some day you may be old also. What comes goes around comes around. Maybe you will even be able to afford a Buick. Also where does it say you have to drive the speed limit? "

joe wrote on Oct 7, 2008 11:21 AM:

" GARRY - I cant even count how many times ive almost been hit by old people driving there Buick or new 50k cadillac because they think that they own the road and dont have to look or use their blinkers when they turn or change lanes, then after they almost hit you and you get next to them, they have no idea what just happened because they are just completly spaced out and driving 10 mph under the speed limit, dont get me wrong, i do agree that young kids drive crazy too, and they pay for it in insurance premiums and tickets but old peoples insurance premiums are cheap because of there age, i think that is wrong. "

JT wrote on Oct 7, 2008 9:02 AM:

" Washington and Divide is another issue. Sure, they finally put a left turn protected light if you are on Washington turning onto Divide...but not from Divide to Washington. WHY NOT? Every left turn should be protected for at least 5 cars to go through. That's half the problem there....rest of it is poor poor timing on state street. "

Amanda wrote on Oct 7, 2008 7:42 AM:

" To Resident, if they don't read them maybe we should print it and keep mailing it to them til they get the picture?? "

Resident wrote on Oct 6, 2008 8:58 PM:

" To NDGuy: Pretty much sounds like a normal day in Bismarck (and yes those lights between 9th and 7th are really out of sync...I always wonder if Bismarck Public Works reads these blogs!? If they don't, well they need to start! "

NDGuy wrote on Oct 6, 2008 3:07 PM:

" I just had to run to North Bismarck and back to South Bismarck. Whata ride!! Ride north was relatively uneventful, nineth was it's usual busy self with traffic weaving in and out of lanes but nothing to write home about. The ride down north State street to Expressway was another matter entirely. The lights on Boulevard between 9th and 7th were out of sync again (since yesterday at least) and cars were backing up two blocks between 7th and 9th. Got cut off once going south on 7th by a pickup (no signal, just cut). There is no left turn lane at C and 7th on 7th but 2 cars decided that there was and almost had an accident with the car in the left lane who also wanted to turn left. Got cut off by a small pickup (again, no signal lights) watched a mustang cut through traffic from right lane to left lane between broadway and main so he could make the left turn on main. (at least he used his signal lights.) Got behind a Chevy Dually that was going 27 south of front street (speed limit is 35 in there), he was driving half in the left lane and half in the middle lane (guess he just couldn't judge how wide the truck was) until he got down to the tire store where he made a left (with signal) going over toward Eidie Ford. Then at Expressway I waited through 2 red lights because the light was so fast and people were just reacting so slowly. ROAD RAGE??? ME?? I told my wife, I am beginning to understand more and more why some people in this town just forget about traffic signals and traffic laws. Its a matter of self defense. "

GARRY wrote on Oct 6, 2008 12:27 PM:

" I guess i have to repeat myself! If the lights were properly set to match the speed limit,If you drove the speed limit,after the first light,you would get all green lights!
which means you,as well as everyone else would save on brakes,&gas!
However,setting these lights would cost money short term! But,it would not cost as much as adding more lanes, or spending $200,000 to do a traffic study,like
Bismarck is doing!! They need to adjust all signal lights!!
Also,i don't much care for some remarks about old people with Buicks that don't know how to drive!! I think there are to many young people that don't know how to drive! They drive these big 4x4's,& seem to think their driving monster trucks at a
demolition derby!! Thanks! "

justwonder wrote on Oct 6, 2008 12:06 PM:

" The problem is not just the short yellow, it is mainly the rediculously short green that has everyone stomping on the gas to get through, it just so happens that right when you've built up enough speed to make it to the green it turns yellow QUICKLY and then to red QUICKLY.
And if you are trying to make a left turn without an arrow light, forget it, you HAVE to wait out in the middle till it turns yellow and the others quit going so you can actually get where you are going.
I think the problem is Bismarck doesn't realize their traffic just isn't the same as it was 20 years ago! a few more seconds for each color isn't going to hurt, its going to help. THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE NOW WHICH EQUALS MORE TRAFFIC WHICH EQUALS MORE LIGHT TIME NEEDED.
Is there any way to put that into little words? hhmmm..... "

Reader wrote on Oct 6, 2008 7:52 AM:

" The yellow is WAY to short. Try 9th & Express, going either way you have to come to a screeching halt, and I just can't wait until ice hits to try that! "

A couple more wrote on Oct 5, 2008 4:55 PM:

" Taking a left on to Expressway from Washington is a joke. The left turn arrow doesn't last long enough for more than two cars. The east/west traffic is already stopped so why not let the light stay green for a few more seconds? Who makes these decisions anyway, that is my question?!?!?!

Also, entering 9th street (the major one-way norht bound artery in our progresssive city) off of Expressway results in a one-block distance before a red light gets you. This light allows for two or three cars to move. Crazy. Quit rewarding the people who don't use the major traffic paths. "

JT wrote on Oct 4, 2008 8:56 AM:

" They also need to time the lights better so you do go through one, stop at the next. There is no flow through state stree from 43rd ave to turning onto 7th street. At least those going down 7th flow. "

brian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 10:00 PM:

" This is a good argument to bring up - if you're traveling 35-40 mph and you hit the light right as it turns yellow, you need to lock up your brakes and come to a screeching halt because if you're not already in the intersection, it will be red by the time you clear it. That's not right. The yellow should give enough time for drivers to get through the intersection if their not able to come to a safe stop, if that were the case you wouldn't have people speeding up when they see a yellow to try and make it and run the risk of hitting someone else. As an outsider who's only been in bismarck a few month's, this is one of the first things i noticed driving around. The yellow's are way too fast. "

REX wrote on Oct 3, 2008 4:29 PM:

" Hog Man is right. Just today I saw at least five cars turn right from the middle of the road, most with no turn signal. I have a plan. From now on when I can see someone getting ready to turn right form way over on the left, I'm going to put on my right turn signal and shoot between them and the curb. I have slight dammage on the left front and I can get it fixed for free when they turn into me. "

To Hog Man and haze wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:51 PM:

" Thank you for the laugh....
that was priceless!! :) "

ds wrote on Oct 3, 2008 6:07 AM:

" not only are the lights sometimes too slow, i think they could be timed better for traffic flow. I know its possible, i've had lights that were green at an 'open' intersection just change as i approached them, and the next and the next, with no traffic coming the other directions to set them off. "

kenny wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:54 PM:

" I personally don't sit at red lights timing them and watching who is going where. I watch the idiot in front of me beside me and behind me, never know when you are going to get blind sided. There are a lot of terrible drivers on the road it is simple drive defensivly and PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING. "

REX wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:23 PM:

" Last night I was heading east on Century. I stopped for the light at Interstate. Many cars were turning onto Interstate from west bound Century. I got a green light and they just kept coming and coming and coming, five or six, maybe more. The guy next to me and I finally just pulled out and made the flow stop. Sound asleep. "

joe wrote on Oct 2, 2008 9:29 AM:

" I think that the real problem is, more than running red lights is, old people that cant drive! "

Live there wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:11 PM:

" maNDanJim - there are all kinds of red light runners in Mandan. Sit at either the light at Mandan Ave & Main or Twin City Drive and Main and you will see all kinds - especially during the 8:00am or 5:00pm rush hour, "

Commuter wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:14 PM:

" Bismarck's red light runners are out of control. South Washington Street and Bis Expressway is horrible for a string of four or five drivers running the red after the light changes. Has nothing to do with timing of the light. Isn't this one of the highest accident intersections in the city? No surprise! "

Biff wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:42 PM:

" Bismarck drivers are the worst. I've driven all over the nation, and I've never been so frustrated with the drivers in this town. Stopping on the highway due to confusion, faking left and right turns because they're lost and are second guessing themselves, driving WELL under the posted speed limit, not stopping, not going, not turning on red when it's allowed, etc etc. Unfortunately, the vast majority of bad drivers I encounter here are piloting Buicks, if that's any indication as to with which age group our primary issues lie. "

crosswalks wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:46 PM:

" At least there are crosswalk lights at that intersection. There are so many in town where there are crosswalk lines but no light and you have to physically get out in the street before traffic will stop for you. And even then it is questionable whether they will stop! I have had to jump back up on the curb many times to avoid being hit. What happened to pedestrians have the right of way? I don't know how I can teach my kids to safely cross the street when everytime we try to cross Rosser at a marked crosswalk no one will stop for us? Or even Washington Street where they have a crosswalk light at a intersection that doesn't have a traffic light. People just fly through there all the time even if the lights are flashing. I'm tired of being scared of being hit by a car! "

haze wrote on Oct 1, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Hog Man - well they gotta git their big rigs turned ya know! "

Edword wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:09 PM:

" The only problem I see is that the lights as they are seem to slow traffic, instead of moving it. You can go from one light to the next hitting it red and the same for the next one. And thats why I punch it to the next light so I can make it and not sit for there. Lets just make then run right huh!! "

GARRY wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Some 40 yrs. ago i lived in Salem,Oregon for a yr.,& a half. The traffic lights were
set on some of the main,or busiest streets,Soif you drove the speed limit,you would get green lites all 18 miles thru town without having to stop!!
Now Bismarck is spending thousands of $ to do a study on how to improve
travel thru the city!!?? They are thinking of widening the xpressway,main,&
Washington! All they would have to do is set the lites to match the speed limit!
not only would the be able to save millions of $ ! But,the city could take unlimited
amounts of traffic! But,people could save millions in gas,& brakes! Just think of
driving all the way around the xpressway without stopping!!!?? Bismarck,& mandan should have had enough time to do it in 40 yrs. Nothing about these lites is set correctly! I think they are playing to much politics!! Thank you! "

Hog Man wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:12 AM:

" Jim, have you ever tried that "two cars from opposite directions turn into two separate lanes" maneuver? It's deadly. Our lovely local drivers all seem to insist on crossing over into the far lane, whether turning left or right onto multi-lane streets. Rules don't matter when everyone is apparently towing an invisible 60-foot grain auger behind them... "

maNDanJim wrote on Oct 1, 2008 7:57 AM:

" I am not aware of this issue in Mandan. Bismarck however has some real outlandish lights and intersections. People drive like idiots , thats a general thing. The worst is when people wait to turn left for the car across the street who is turning right. There are two lanes you fools , one for each of you. "

Simple Guy wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:27 AM:

" It's pretty basic - you go on green, and stop on yellow and red. Sure, the light timing can be adjusted but the basic rule stays the same.

I see people run the red every day and it's only because they decided to drive through the red and take a chance. Or, they're on their cell phone and don't have a clue what's taking place on the road. They'd drive right over the top of a family if there happened to be one crossing the street. "

Amanda wrote on Oct 1, 2008 1:03 AM:

" I agree the timing of the lights at some intersections SUCK! It's not how long the light is yellow, its how little it is GREEN. There have been MANY times that I am barely half way across State/Century, or 19th/Century, before the light is yellow!! I have sometimes been the only car in the entire intersection in any direction and it does this. What is the point of having a green light for 3 seconds??

I agree with Hogman too--some people really need to learn what that gas pedal is for!! It's not for speeding like demons all over town but at least get through an intersection so that there aren't 15 cars piled up behind you! "

John wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:20 AM:

" There is just to many lights in that part of town, and none of them are in sync with anything. Same thing with main street. I swear the people who run Bismarcks lights are in cahoots with people who sell gas and install brake shoes and pads, on the gas, off the gas, on the brakes, on the gas, off the gas, on the brakes, I hate this towns lights, it is getting rediculous.
And why cant I turn onto the interstate when there isnt a car coming, Ooh that makes me mad just sitting there, waiting for a light to change when there isnt a car for a mile, same thing up by burnt creek club, that light you can sit there forever waiting to turn left. But they have flashing yellow lights all over to warn you everytime the lights change to red, SO FANCY. "

Chatter wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:55 PM:

" Driver's need to pay attention to driving and only driving! Not to the other 1000 things they are doing while behind the wheel of vehicle. "

makes sense... wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:53 PM:

" Dave and NDGuy are completely right: the problem, esp. at State St./Century isn't the short yellows, but the VERY short greens and the clueless drivers who don't get going until the arrow is yellow again. At 7:40 in the morning, or 5:10 PM, good traffic control would allow more than one car (and the subsequent three who blow the yellow and red) to turn left at that clogged intersection. I'd be willing to wait a little longer for a green light when I'm headed west, or any other direction, if I knew that I'd get equal treatment when I'm turning south from Century to State Street. "

Hog Man wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:57 PM:

" If local drivers weren't asleep at the wheel and deathly afraid of putting pressure on the accelerator pedals, the lights would allow twice as many cars through on a green. For the love of all that is good in the world, people...FIND THE GAS PEDAL AND USE IT! It's NOT OK to need a mile to accelerate up to 40 MPH. It's NOT OK to putz through intersections and hold others up. It's NOT OK to drive 10MPH under the speed limit any more than it is to drive 10 MPH over it. Bismarck/Mandan drivers need to wake up and DRIVE instead of simply aiming their vehicles in an apparent stupor all the time. "

K.K. from R.J. wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:53 PM:

" I agree that the left turn signal at the Century / State location can be frustrating but also have enought common sense to realize that if it was any longer, the traffic flow would get messed up even worse because of the cars getting backed up at the next light to the west.

There should have been a right turn lane (easement?) at the gas station instead of letting them conduct their business right up to the sidewalk. It sucks but you just got to deal with it. "

NDGuy wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:28 PM:

" The problem is only partly with the lights. How about daydreamers who don't go when green until someone wakes them up with a rude honk? How about those that are too busy with the cell phone or texting to start their cars moving on green? How about the second car waiting until the first car clears the intersection instead of starting behind the first? I've seen instances where one car goes through the intersection before the second car starts, then the third waits until the second is through the intersection before they start, etc. As for the yellow being too short, NO, it's not too short. If you drive the speed limit and slow down for the left turns you will be prepared to stop when the light goes green. If you are already in the intersection you have 2 - 3 seconds to get through, which is long enough if you're not sleeping. It's also long enough to stop if you are slowed for the intersection to begin with. I agree, much could be done to improve the lights and warn traffic of impending changes, but until our powers that be are gracious enough to make the necessary changes, we must be prepared ourselves. Don't speed. "

Me too wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:27 PM:

" Someone has too much time on their hands... "

Dave wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:12 PM:

" good call, that stupid left turn signal on at century and state street doesn't stay green long enough for one car to get through when there is a line of 15 cars waiting. How does it even make sense for it to only stay green for a couple of seconds? "

missing the point wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:26 PM:

" Obviously some of you never drive on the north side of town. THE POINT THE WRITER is trying to make is that the freakin LIGHTS CHANGE TO YELLOW WITHIN 2-3 SECONDS OF GOING GREEN. That is NOT enough time to turn through an 8 lane intersection. Get a clue people. "

Beesh wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:51 AM:

" Yellow is to warn you NOT to turn at or go through an intersection not give you time to do so. "

old guy wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:16 AM:

" If people would follow the law that states yellow means cuation. This means stop and wait for the light to turn green. It does not mean hit the gas. I have been at State and century and I have seen several cars go through the yellow and the red. I have if almost been hit and I was going south at the time. Wake up people I drive an old truck and hitting you will not hurt me. But I am sure it will kill your plastic little car. "

Me wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:05 AM:

" My thought is this......who cares!?!?!? "

run dont walk wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:13 AM:

" I've noticed that several pedestrian crosswalks in Bismarck require you to run across the intersection in order to avoid being a casualty. Many times I've seen people waiting in the curbed middle for the next light. Very dangerous if you are walking with young children. Bismarck is not a pedestrian or bike friendly city, unless you are walking for pleasure on the footpaths. Even then it's questionable. "

JP wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:24 AM:

" I think the times are changing to quickly for some people... "

leo wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:15 AM:

" This letter will definitely open a can of worms. One of my pet peeves is the left turn signals at certain locations such as Divide and State St. The left turn signal remains red while there is no oncoming traffic. Why not allow the left turn light to change from an arrow to a green light? The more familiar someone becomes with certain routes, they know whether speeding will be rewarded with making lights. Signals should be more coordinated like they are on 7th and 9th. I can't believe it's that difficult to accomplish. "

Economic Conservative wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:05 AM:

" Gee weez, and all this time I thought your weren't supposed to enter the intersection once the light turned yellow. All these years I have driven under the beleif that if you were already IN the inetersection you could proceed. Now I understand, yellow means "hit the gas and get through no matter what". Now, turning off the sarcasm, I hope they ticket every idiot that hits the gas when the light turns yellow and fails to clear the inetrsection before it turns red. Accidents and run over pedestrians due to inpatience and careless driving need to be eradicated. "

REX wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:57 AM:

" Lights? "

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