Sep 27, 2008 - 07:56:58 CDT
FARGO - North Dakota's candidates for governor don't like each other's plans to cut taxes, but Republican Gov. John Hoeven and Democratic challenger Tim Mathern both oppose a ballot measure to slash state income tax rates in half.Hoeven and Mathern, who met Friday at a debate sponsored by the North Dakota Associated Press Broadcasters Association, discussed smoking restrictions, highway speed limits, Devils Lake flooding and problems at the state's workers' compensation agency.
They have competing proposals to reduce income and property taxes. Hoeven's $500 million package reserves $100 million for income tax cuts, $300 million for school property tax reductions and $100 million for increased state aid for schools.
Mathern, who is a Fargo state senator, has rolled out a $1 billion proposal that includes income and property tax reductions and increased aid to schools and city and county governments.
North Dakota's state income tax structure has five tax brackets, ranging from 2.1 percent to 5.54 percent of taxable income.
Hoeven's proposal reduces each bracket by an equal percentage, while Mathern's preferred income tax plan leaves the top rates intact while making deeper cuts in lower brackets.
"It's basically giving money to the wealthiest people in North Dakota," Mathern said of Hoeven's proposal.
Measure 2, an initiative on North Dakota's Nov. 4 ballot, gives voters the chance to approve deeper income tax cuts than either candidate for governor is offering. It would reduce the five individual income tax brackets by roughly half, while cutting corporate income tax rates by 15 percent.
Both Mathern and Hoeven said they opposed Measure 2. They share the same sentiments for the North Dakota ballot's three other proposals: Measure 1, a constitutional amendment that creates a new trust fund for surplus oil tax revenues (opposed); Measure 3, which would increase state spending on anti-tobacco measures (in favor); and Measure 4, which gives the governor authority to hire North Dakota's workers' compensation director (in favor).
They would want to retain the Workforce Safety and Insurance agency's board of directors as an advisory panel if Measure 4 is approved, the two men said. At present, the 11-member board hires WSI's director, who reports directly to it.
During the debate, both Hoeven and Mathern said they favored stronger state anti-smoking restrictions. In interviews afterward, both men said they would support a statewide smoking ban in bars, a proposal the North Dakota Legislature rejected last year.
State law already bars smoking in most public workplaces. Last June, Fargo city voters approved extending the ban to bars and truck-stop areas that state law presently exempts.
Mathern said he backed lowering North Dakota's highway speed limits, which he said would both save fuel and make the state's roads safer. Hoeven said he did not favor lowered speed limits as an energy-saving strategy, saying he preferred to push for more energy production.
Mathern, in an interview, said he believed North Dakota's 75 mph speed limit on interstate highways should be lowered to 70 mph. Other speed limit reductions should be made based on the type of road, he said.
The Fargo Democratic state senator said he did not want to set interstate speed limits at 55 mph, which was done in the 1970s in response to a spike in oil prices. The American Trucking Associations, which represents the trucking industry, has asked Congress to approve a national 65 mph limit.
In discussing Devils Lake flooding, Mathern suggested he would oppose Canadian-favored projects in North Dakota unless Canada softened its opposition to North Dakota efforts to drain away excess Devils Lake water, and use the Missouri River to supply water to eastern and northwestern parts of the state.
"I think we have to be tougher negotiators with Canada. When they want to run a pipeline through our country, we ought to be bringing up water," Mathern said, referring to a huge oil pipeline that a Canadian company is building in eastern North Dakota to carry Canadian crude to Midwestern refineries.
The two men took a number of political jabs at each other, with Hoeven portraying Mathern as a free spender who has consistently supported tax increases in the Senate.
Mathern's campaign proposals have ignored budget realities, and he has spent a projected $1.2 billion surplus in North Dakota's treasury at least twice, Hoeven said.
"That's his approach. Raise taxes. He just doesn't have credibility when it comes to the issue of tax relief," Hoeven said. "My opponent seems to think building a surplus is a bad thing, and I'm sure, if he's elected, he'll start building a deficit right away."
For his part, Mathern said the Republican governor, who is seeking his third four-year term in office, has been advocating initiatives that he should have pushed during his first eight years.
"If he really believed (in his initiatives) ... he would have put them in the budget,"Mathern said, referring to the governor's spending recommendations to the Legislature. "The values are in the budget. He hasn't demonstrated what he says. That, to me, is zero credibility. When you believe in something, you do it, you don't just talk about it."
engr wrote on Oct 4, 2008 8:31 PM:
SB wrote on Oct 4, 2008 6:23 PM:
JB wrote on Oct 4, 2008 5:40 PM:
Your dictionary entries are accurate, E.C. However, I must not be talking about the same thing you are because you are speaking in absolute terms. Socialism in its purist form, communism, means the 'State' controls the ENTIRE means of production. In the case of a state owned refinery, the state of N.D. would own any means of production at all. They wouldn't dictate the market. They would just participate in the supply. Exactly the way the state-owned bank and state-owned mill simply participate in their respective markets. Those two institutions work - no denying it. That's what the refinery would be, in a broad sense.
The government bailout is one thing (first and foremost it is yet another power grab by the plutocrats to increase their wealth). A state-owned refinery would be something else. It is something voted on in advance, with a business plan. I won't play the semantics game here either - state owned for-profit enterprises are socialism. So what? They turn a profit.
I suppose you are historically a Republican, E.C., so you are probably a fan of Ronald Reagan. They say Reagan was a pragmatist. Pragmatic is a synonym of practical. It is practical for the state government to build a refinery. Razors Edge said it best: socialism works best when it's something we all use. We all use petroleum products (gasoline, plastics, etc.). I think it's a good idea to at least pencil out the hard numbers on establishing a state-owned refinery. What if the bean counters say it's a 'gold mine'? And it could potentially give N.D. an even bigger surplus? I'd at least want GOVERNOR Mathern to investigate it on paper. He's the one who brought it up.
A federal bailout of rich bankers and having the legislature authorize a for-profit refinery is comparing apples and oranges. And, coincidentally, the state-owned bank is supposedly VERY solvent right now. "
Ecnomic Conservative wrote on Oct 4, 2008 12:33 PM:
noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. These are the principals you are endorsing JB. Razors edge hits the nail on the head when he compares the bailout to the principals of socialism. As for me, I am tired of my money supporting those that are too lazy to support themselves and real tired of the Hoeven Administrations using our tax dollars to support his out of state campaign supporters businesses. I am a staunch supporter of true republican philosophies of we help those who can help themselves, but free enterprise without less government is the only path to real freedom. As for Sen. Mathern, well, his plans speak for themselves can only more ND further into the socialist goevrnment that we already have here in our state. "
Razors Edge wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:40 AM:
You said:
"Cannot you really not see the distinction between socialism and working together for the common good?"
For things like education, roads, water projects, fire/police departments, etc. then yes socialism works. We all work together to get things we ALL use. What most people don't like is how one person who's "well off" get's punished for it by higher taxes to give someone "less fortunate" their tax money. It's just like this bail out. At what point do we not let people "fail" for the mistakes they make? "
JB wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:22 AM:
Cannot you really not see the distinction between socialism and working together for the common good? "
FYI wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:01 PM:
The issue should always be now, but we also have to look to the future of ND, which is where Gov. Hoeven excels. "
Economic Conservative wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:47 AM:
engr wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:40 PM:
Tell us how you view Measure #1.
Thank you. "
Senator Tim Mathern wrote on Sep 28, 2008 8:05 PM:
Senator Tim Mathern "
The Point wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:48 PM:
"It's basically giving money to the wealthiest people in North Dakota," Mathern said of Hoeven's proposal.
WHAT??? This isn't "giving money to the wealthiest people in North Dakota", it is simply letting those people keep what they have earned. IT'S THEIR MONEY!!! Isn't it? Does Tim Mathern think that the government is entitled to taxes? Folks, that is a pretty dangerous statement. If you are blessed to be "rich" the Dems think that they are entitled to what you have earned. That is completely anti-American in my book. "
JB wrote on Sep 27, 2008 5:23 PM:
Rule #1
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull.
Rule #2
Tim Mathern is behaving like someone running for office by promising to both lower taxes AND fund oil industry infrastructure. (The horror. The man is worse than Hitler.) Plus, he's a Democrat, so that makes him a Communist to Economic Conservative.
Rule #3
Only Economic Conservative and 'right-thinking' N.D. residents get to decide what the state invests in. They will take their own meager little private piles of money and build their own operations in their own way. That way, they don't have to cooperate or look out for anyone else. You know, survival of the fittest, and all that. If they don't want to build something for N.D., or can't afford it, it just won't get done. That's the way it HAS TO BE. Because they said so.
Rule #4
If any young people leave the state, and then come back, they best remember that Economic Conservative and his ilk are the ones in charge of the economic rule book. As a native, you can come back to invest the money you've made in the outside world, but you better join the old boy network, or you'll get beat down real hard real fast by the locals.
Rule #5
If someone makes a positive suggestion about improving the N.D. economy, and if you can't decide within 3 seconds of hearing it whether you can personally profit from the idea, shoot the idea down and insult the person who said it. "
Economic Conservative wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:37 AM:
Margaret wrote on Sep 27, 2008 10:11 AM:
JB wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:39 AM:
If N.D. built a pipeline or a refinery, people would scream "socialism"!
I guess if we let a foreign country do it and reap the profit, it's somehow good business.
Ever meet a North Dakotan who WOULDN'T cut off his nose to spite his face? "
Fiscal Conservative wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:48 AM:
We should also be pursuing an oil refinery in North Dakota in which North Dakotans can invest. We have huge oil reserves in western North Dakota. In this energy crisis n which we are in we should be looking at things we can do to provide additional oil and provide good paying jobs in North Dakota. "
Economic Conservative wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:39 AM:
sarahr wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:44 AM:
Delbert Moore wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:44 AM:
Comments are reviewed for taste, tone and language before posting.
Some comments may be used in the Tribune's print edition.
We value and respect your privacy, but The Bismarck Tribune might
disclose certain information to governmental entities if served with subpoena.