Bismarck, North Dakota News

" The real chill hunters and gun owners will feel this fall is if gun ban lover's Obama & Biden get elected. Educate yourselves citizens.(gunbanoboma.com) "

" gerry you are dead wrong. "

" gerry, speaking as a farmer/rancher and a landowner. it seems to me like you have figured out the system. Ever considered a career at WSI or perhaps running for political office ? "

" gerry, I think you had better check your facts just a little bit. People with attitudes like yours, are the ones who ruin chances of getting access to hunting lands anywhere. "

" to tired of the all this bs. My friend you are way wrong. Let me explain. There are 10 titles in the Farm bill. We don't have a Conservation bill, or a Nutrition bill, or a Rural Development, Farm Credit, Forestory or Agriculture Trade, Disaster, or Animal Health bill. Wish we did, but it is all in the Farm Bill. Nutrition is the largest by far, Food stamps, School lunch programs ect. This costs about $30 to 40 Billion . Most americans think it is mone well spent. Commidity programs are next at $15-20 billion. Far more than the <1% you claim. Most americans, if they understood who recieves this and what it does, would recoil in horror. Rural Development and Conservation Programs are about $4 billion each. Your arguments seem sorta disconnected. How exactly, would cutting spending, raise taxes ? Furthuremore your claim that imported food woud be more expensive is baseless. That would be like claiming a Kia is more expensive than a Lincolin. Its absurd. Quite frankly, for us taxpayers keeping that land in CRP is far cheaper than paying subsides to farm it. "

" you can hunt on anyones land,, there is not a law against it,, you wont get thrown in jail or fined,, all that happens is someone will chew you out,, who cares,, everyone go hunting where ever you want,, farmers and ranchers dont care,, they want the deer and ducks and geese dead anyways so it dont harm there crop,, so keep hunting and hunt safe,, "

" to all the ones that think the subsudies should be cut off for famrers, and your taxes would go down. do you realize that the so called farm bill covers way more than subsidies for farmers, the farmers get less than one percent LESS THAN ONE PERCENT i say again the hot lunch program in schools gets money from this pot, food stamps, and other welfare programs not to mention there has been grants for restoring historic building with farm bill moneys also, and believe you me there are alot more programs that get money from this also. so lets cut out the whole farm bill and them see what you nay sayers have to say then i guarantee you that your taxes will go up , and not just a little but a huge amount.
not to mention your food costs will also increase when you start eating imported food the food costs will increase many times over what they are now. the little tax money the taxpayers put out that goes to the farm bill, that actually goes to the farmer is next to nothing compared to what it will cost you if the farmers cant make it and th US has to rely on foreign food.
so stop and think a little before you know it alls do your posting "

" To SE Forty: I'm happy for you. You have your own land, great. Happy for you in that with an attitude like yours, I know no one else is going to want you on theirs. I am not a farmer but grew up with farm families, my father, grandfather, father-in-law and several cousins all farm(ed). They respected the land and the life on it. To me, the issue in this case isn't the hay crop in this story. Its demanding the rules change after the game began, and then taking it out on everyone when the rules dont change when they want. When these men signed up for CRP, they knew the rules. When times got tough, they wanted to change those rules to suit themselves and they wanted them changed immediately. Now, I don't begrudge them the hay, it's the attitude I have a problem with. Their attitude, and the attitude of some others, reminds me of spoiled bullies on a playground. I lost my lunch money so I want yours and I want it now.
I stopped for coffee a few weeks ago after wed had a hard rain the previous day and overheard the following conversation between two farmers. Thank God for the rain. We really needed it. It was a bit much but we really needed the moisture in the stock dams. I ate, left and went about my day. A few hours later I saw the same two farmers along with some friends still sitting in the same spot. The conversation went something like this, its too wet to get into my field. Cant get any work done, just too wet. Always something, its always too wet, too dry, too hot, or too cold. Sure wish it would dry up so I could finish. Aint it amazing? "

" I am anouther one that hopes help for farmers (commidity subsidies) are eliminated. It has only been the last year or two that demand, not supply, has driven crop prices. This desire to get out of CRP is a very short term thing. Crop production in South America and the former Soviet states is growing exponentially. In a few years farmers are going to be screaming for anouther CRP-Soil Bank program. I could care less if North Americans quit farming. I drive an imported car, I would eat imported food. Just think of all the tax money saved and environmental benefits resulting. If comidity subsidies were eliminated farmers would respond to what consumers want and not "Farm the FSA program". The obesity/ diabetic epidemic is a result of cheap carbs and fat, along with routine hormone and antibodic treatments given to livestock. The idea that our farmers feed the world and are most efficient is silly. Perhaps our taxpayers feed the world, (they most definately our farmers) but at a horrible cost to us and the rest of the world. "

" Farmers- Go ahead and post your land! I don't care, I have my own land. As far as you people thinking you feed the world. Blah,Blah. If you did not farm the land then someone or some corporation will. If it is so tough then quit and get a real job like the rest of us. "

" To ND Conservative: I think you may be incorrect. "No one would farm if not for helpful subsidies." If there were no subsidies there would still be farmers growing crops and making a profit. You would just pay more for the products. This may be a good thing considering the obesity problem in the United States. "

" land owner: Please go back and show me where in my comments I said that the farmers should not be getting any assistance. I have a real problem with guys like you claiming I said things which I never did. Show me were I said it - I challange you. I stated that the farmers need to appreciate what they do get at times and not dwell soley on what they did not get. I also said that emergency haying of CRP should not be used as part of the over-all farm plan for some farmers. They cannot count on it being opened up every year. Be thankful when it is opened up (as I agree it should be in most cases) but don't bet your operation that it is going to be opened every year. That is a far cry from saying that farmers should not recieve any assistance. "

" hunter past farmer - well said! We have many hunters that come to our place and we hardly ever turn anyone away unless there is a valid reason like someone is already hunting on a certain piece of land. So far we have been pretty lucky and it's usually the same guys that come back each year. But those that do not farm do not have any idea what it is like. If I walked through someones yard in town to shoot something without their permission, I bet they wouldn't like it too much. "

" Hunter past farmer
I agree with you completely. I have witnessed first hand what bad hunters can do. From the garbage they leave on the ground because they are to lazy to carry it out with them. To tearing up hayfields because they are driveing where they are not suppose to be. Or acting like it is the landowners priviledge to have them come to hunt on their land. How many have ever gone out and asked the farmer or rancher if they needed any help with anything around the place. I am sure the ones complaining would never do that. They feel they can go where they want when they want. Maybe some of the ranchers or farmers should go and set up camp in there back yard and see how they like it. "

" to hunter pass farmer: Thank You for your input!!! You said it all ,in just a few sentences!!! Everyone needs to know, the free gov. hand outs(as they call it)only gives everyone cheap food at the local gorcery stores. They(gov.) only pay the farmers peanuts, so they than in return can give the comsumers free food assistance! I hope Mike R can understand this! If we wouldn't get any assistance mike r would be paying 4 times more for his food ! "

" Hunter past farmer: THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better myself. "

" I will admit I have not read all the posts but am sad to read from of all the people who are so uninformed of farming. Do they get money, yes but they have to sign up for it. If you want food on your table then these farmers are obligated to fertalize and spray, or you would have nothing on your table to eat for grains. It woudl most likely cost you more because the elevators would pass the charge along for the massive cleaning of all the grain. With attitudes like yours why should land OWNERS let you on? Do people just jump in your cars to drive them? No its your car, its their land, they bought it for 100/acre...if you want some then go buy it, farm the it and get the gov. money! I don't own a farm but I will NOT hunt w/o asking, I don't want people on my lawn why do you think you can use the land that a house is not sitting on? Bad hunters have made it impossible to find land that is not posted. Keep it up and you won't be hunting at all. Farmers have rights to do what they want with their land, you obey those rights. If you don't like it stop eating grain products or grow them yourself! "

" I'm an avid hunter, as well as a landowner and a retired farmer. Am I the only one who can see the legitimate aspects of all sides of the argument here? The finger pointing and "us vs. them" mentality is disgusting. Especially when the finger is being pointed by someone who only knows a fraction of the details of one particular side of an argument. There is some serious display on these comments of people's ability to spew away in broken English while being uninformed and uneducated. "

" To "to mike r": Seriously though, I have asked several people like yourself (try to slam me personally, and throw a fit without ever debating the facts behind my comments), to prove me wrong. Don't throw a tizzy and call me names. Who care what other topics I have posted on? Who cares where I am from or what I do for a living since it has no bearing on this topic what-so-ever? If I am wrong in my opinion on this topic, then prove me wrong. If you have a different opinion and not hard facts, then lets debate the issue. Having a tizzy about me or where I am from, or what I do for a living, does not make you sound intelligent at all. Let's try to stick to the topic and go from there - if you can. "

" To "to mike r": No you are not the only one who has a problem dealing with someone who argues the FACTS. Rest assured, you are not alone. "

" No, this is my first time I have ever addressed you. Apparently I'm not alone, eh?

And no--to the poster who labeled me as as farmer, I am not. Actually, I am a stay at home mom, who also hunts. Upland and large game. Got me figured all wrong! We know many farmers, and honestly cannot say the ones we know are "slobbiest" (is there such a word?) I can understand a small-town, backwoods farming community doing something like that, like where you are from, but not the farmers around here. Sorry. "

" Why is it that no matter topic I comment on, there is someone using the name "to mike R"? Are you the one harrassing me all the time? If so, why? If not, why can't you pick a real username so I know if I am talking to the same person or not all the time? People with no guts, no integrity, and no clue use usernames like "to Mike R". "

" Maybe the Free Chase group could start a petition to make it illegal to hay CRP. "

" Mr. Elkin and Mr. Friidley: Your point is well taken, however as a rancher and hunter, I wonder what I ever did to you to cause you to take your troubles out on me? Please don't BITE the hand that feeds you! You never know which banker you have offended by this article or which partsman, or which salesman, or which attorney, or doctor or teacher, or tire repair man that has to come out to replace a tractor tire, we have a unique way of life and we need every friend of agriculture we can keep, and yes that means good hunters from all walks of life! "

" I don't know much about the National Wildlife Federation but I thought they were a bunch of extremists. But I'm not sure. Can someone educate me about them? Used to have a neighbor who worked for them but he was transferred to Alaska. His parting words were - "Well, at least I'm going somewhere with some culture." "

" Apparently you read every article that Mike R does; plus you read his comments and it is apparent that you are a farmer. So maybe you should be the one outside doing what you should be doing instead of being a hypocrit!

I come from a farming community although I am not a farmer. I do know a lot of them and they are thee slobbiest of slob hunters there are. I heard them tell stories of cutting fences to sneak in on the neighbors land, I see them shoot and waist wildlife as the meat does not compare to the cattle they raise. A true hunter does not do these things. He is gracious and respects the land and wildlife! As I do! "

" to This is nuts, i'm missing the religious aspect. what are you referencing so i can re-read it? "

" Why is it that EVERY article, you come on and lambast the issue?? You come across as a know-it-all ex-law enforcement, who now has nothing better to do than slam people on your computer day in and day out. Get out of your house--it is a gorgeous day! It may even improve your mood ; )

Until you are in a farmer's shoes, don't say the things you say. (didn't your mama teach you ' if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'? She should have.) "

" It amazes me how such politically and religiously misled people can be so right on an issue! dof, ndc Thanks "

" if nobody would farm if it were not for farm subsidies than why do all of my farmer friends make it.. without subsidies.. they get sick to their stomachs about all guys driving green tractors and 50,000 pickups getting assistance from tax dollars... My best friend is a successful farmer with a ton in the bank.. drives a 1988 chevy and runs older "red" tractors that he does his own maintanance on... everything is payed for in cash or he does without... his name is listed on no websites saying that he accepts handouts or subsidies... he only raises enought cattle that he can provide for.. I get sick and tired of my tax dollars paying for toys for farmers to show off with and brag about while playing 100 dollar hands at the casino on weekends. or paying for the $10,000 4 wheelers and snowmobiles... I think that in order to get any federal money the farmer should have to have a degree in finance or at least an ag degree... ( I would rather pay for the education than for the life long mess) If Landowners are going to be hard on hunters then the hunters will be hard on the landowners... I will continue to vote against all monies going towards the greedy farmer... until I see a change.. raise less cattle so that your land can support them... droubt years require you to tighten the belt.. so be it.. sick of the handouts... sick of being told I cant shoot "their" deer.... "

" several thoughts here: First off, the landowner is paid to NOT farm or hay the land. If the owner is given a chance to hay it anyway due to special circumstances they should be thankful. It is my understanding that CRP hay cannot be sold, so the person in the article must be doubly blessed that a landowner offered to give him the hay off his CRP land. 2nd: In my 50 years here I have never known another hunter much less any North Dakotan that was a member of the National Wildlife Federation. 3rd: I have seen baby pheasants and turkeys in the last few weeks that were obviously hatched in August...maybe not happening throughout the state but it is happening. "

" ewww.....this could be a post the draws fire, but here I go... First let farmers assume all hunters belong to and support sportsmans groups (ie Federal Wildlife Federation, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever) Then let hunters assume all farmers have CRP, unlimited access to farm subsidies, too many cattle for their acreage. Then let hunters step to the plate and claim that if taxpayers money is taken by the farmer, the farmer has no right to post his land. Then let the farmer counter with I've bought and paid for the land and I pay annual property taxes on it.... See where this is going? Nobody wins it becomes a stalemate, with the hunters figuratively shooting themselves in the foot. Farmer/Ranchers feeling worked over when the next farm is written, and not understanding why sportman groups are getting more and more lobbying power in Washington.
Hunters may want to realize CRP is dying as a farm program. It has to do with the way the penalties are written, unrealistic weed control guidelines, and attitudes of people wanting to use CRP for recreation, as well as, rental rates, this failure to open it expeditiously for haying in a drought disaster area is just another nail in the coffin.
Farmer/Ranchers in the western part of the state, didn't want the CRP opened they needed it opened. When grazing and haying production is 10% of what is considered a normal year, it is a natural disaster, therefor the request for 'emergency haying/grazing'
Yes, hunters are right some farmer/ranchers do work the system, but in this case a lot of good farmer/ranchers got hurt. Just like landowners come across slob hunters, and good sportmen catch the blame. And as I see it in 5 years, CRP won't be an issue for either side. Its too bad. "

" Bil and Vardell; What is the motive here? The fact is, no one would farm if not for helpful subsidies. And if no one farms, you do not eat. It is that simple. You know, the stuff this guy grows, you eventually eat. It is not in your or anyone else's best interests to stop the subsidies. It is pretty simple. "

" When you go to the site posted by "Show me" please notice one thing. The comments were directed to one person with a bad attitude that was labled a land nazi. He is trying with all his might to make it look like the label was meant to apply to all landowners everywhere. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Just someone trying to stir up hatred between 2 groups that really need to work together - nothing more. "

" These welfare cheats expect everyone to donate their tax dollars to their failed enterprise, and then when the same tax payer ask's to hunt tell them to forget it. If these welfare cheats never get a dime in farm subsidies it will be an answered prayer "

" Here is a North Dakota hunting site where landowners are called naizs.

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/forums/topic.php?fid=167&tid=31487 "

" this kind of stuff gets me so worked up... Why is it that all farmers and ranchers expect the government to help them every year.. and then decide to somehow blame all the problems on hunters... Here is a hint guys.. If you rely on somebody else to help you every year, then maybe there is something wrong??? I dont get a bit of help with any of my problems each year..some years my family downsizes, some years we dont. it is a called life.. and when your life depends on the weather it is a fact.. I know one thing.. when things are tough we dont drive green tractors.... "

" One more thing. The government didn't have to open up CRP at all. This guy should be thankful that he got any hay off of it at all. Way to many ranchers own more cattle than they can realistically feed because they are counting on the CRP being opened up every year. One year when it doesn't open or opens late, they get in a tizzy about how unfair it is. What I think is unfair is ranchers who think they can get paid for CRP and still hay it anyway every single year. "

" The problem is this guy is blaming the hunters that had NOTHING to do with it at all. It was the Federal government that did this, but yet he takes his frustrations out on the local hunters. I actually don't feel so sorry for this guy with that kind of attitude. "

" I completely agree with this article. It's kind of like putting fruit on a grocery shelf after it is already roughten and saying "here ya go come and get it"! Good luck to all the ranchers and hope you can scrounge enough hay for your cattle. "