Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - <B>Feedlot is just not worth it</B>

Feedlot is just not worth it

Jul 14, 2008 - 04:06:12 CDT

By DEBBY KOM
Mandan

Have people heard about Fred Berger's proposed 10,000-head cattle feedlot that is supposed to be constructed about nine miles west of Mandan in the Crown Butte area? Why let one man jeopardize the health and safety of the city of Mandan? It was said that it would cost about $800,000 or more to fix one mile of road on 35th Street that the cattle trucks would be using for a route and there are a lot of miles that would need to be fixed. Guess who would be paying that bill? Morton county taxpayers.

Also, when the interstate is closed because of bad weather, guess which route may be used by the cattle trucks that are hauling 80,000 pounds of cattle. Old Red Trail in Mandan, which will be the home to the new junior high school for Mandan kids. Cattle trucks hauling that much can do a lot of damage to the roads, so who will maintain these roads year after year? Morton County taxpayers?

Also, one cow drinks about 15 gallons of water or more a day. Well, let's do some math: 10,000 head of cattle, that would be 150,000 gallons of water a day. Where will Berger get this much water in the Crown Butte area for this proposed feedlot?

So again, why jeopardize the health and safety of the people in the city of Mandan?

The next scheduled meeting with the county commission to discuss the proposed feedlot and make a decision is at 5:30 p.m., July 17, in the basement of the courthouse in Mandan.

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Comments

Thad McCallister wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:21 PM:

" Sometimes it feels far safer to yell and scream and throw rocks at the perceived monster, rather than turning on the lights, looking under the bed, and realizing there's no monster to even begin with. That's what this subject needs: More Light of Understanding. The past three commission meetings have tried to shed light on this so-called "monster", and level-minded folks will recognize the truth in the public hearings and meetings yet to come. I sincerely hope common sense will prevail, because this agricultural business endeavor makes sense if it's conducted in a responsible manner. That is what the owner has pledged, that is what the commissioners have approved, and that is what the state and federal authorities will monitor and verify.

And there's no amount of scare tactics that can refute that - for a person of common sense, agricultural knowledge and level disposition.

Now, getting back to the movie Convoy..... "

Thad McCallister wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:21 PM:

" "Just a guess here, but I'm thinking that may have been exactly 'Thad's' point - all this 'ranting and raving and not making much sense"

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!!!

Exasperated, you are a calm and logical voice of reason commenting in this blog. Vocal opponents of this feedlot have ignored many of the valid points you make. This feedlot, now approved to go forward, still hinges on the ability of its owner to comply with Federal, State, and local regulations. If the owner is able to meet those regulations, no amount of hypothetical hand-wringing, fish kill scare tactics or broad accusations lifted from a Sierra Club website has a right to stop it.

This is a still democratic society, where everyone's opinion matters. Unfortunately, the ability to formulate an opinion in this matter does not guarantee that the opinion holder is blessed with the ability to grasp a legal concept regarding the pursuit of an agricultural business opportunity. Some prefer to embrace fear, hearsay and the unknown regarding a new venture that they do not fully understand. Ultimately, education is the key. And obviously, humor is lost upon those that do not grasp the underlying concept of this very necessary education. A rant about killer truckers and steers that eat people? It's not so far fetched compared to the other negative accusations I've read under this particular topic. "

moved away wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:13 PM:

" use your heads i lived in north dakota i moved away when i was 19 BECAUSE there is or was no jobs worth staying for this is my dream to have a feedlot all for you man if you have more work more tax money more work more jobs truckers farm hands but what ive found out the people that are doing the most ranting are the people that never worked a do in there life and want everything handed to them i have a buddy that works in bismarck and he said that they need help at work but cant get any body that will work id move back but there is not enough money and id have to here dumb people lick all you good luck berger "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:27 PM:

" To WCE: Just a guess here, but I'm thinking that may have been exactly 'Thad's' point - all this 'ranting and raving and not making much sense'! Also, I too think ALL the people LIVING and WORKING in Morton Co. deserve the best, not just those opposed to the feedlot... I don't believe anyone with LEGIT concerns has been 'put down', maybe some have 'poked some fun' at the ABSURD statements...And finally, ONCE AGAIN - I completely understand wanting some questions answered before the fact - and they have been answered, will continue to be answered, are continueing to be answered, over and over again... I seem to just keep hearing the SAME questions and when they're different, they are bordering on ridiculous (i.e. Interstate is closed trucks will be on ORT, etc.) hence the reason why some have 'poked a little fun'... Nobody is trying to 'pull the wool' over anyone's eyes... Everything is public, obviously, and the Health Dept. hearings will be public as well - we were told this at the 2nd Commission meeting - where I'm sure they will answer your questions AGAIN... "

RanchingGirl wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:03 PM:

" I wish Fred Berger the best of luck with this feedlot. I don't know about you people, but as for my fianc and I, we eat beef nearly every day. Where do you people think that the meat you eat comes from? And to those of you who say move the feedlot elsewhere, you are supportive then; but since it is now close to you it's unwanted. I have been in the agriculture industry my whole life. I have lived on a ranch my whole life and have never been bothered by the smell of our feedlot. People, you have to realize there are so many rules and regulations that Berger is going to have to follow, and like it's been said before, look at his feedlot now. Also, look at all the job opportunities this is going to bring to the area, whether you realize it or not it is going to positively affect our community. Finally, to WCE, personally, I would be more than happy to attend a picnic on the Berger feedlot. "

wce wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:52 AM:

" Thad, Berger changed it to 8,000 animal units. Do you know why? 8,000 is a small number than 10,000, right? Wrong.... 8,000 animal units actually can be 10,000 head! Just anohter play on words by someone trying to pull the wool over our eyes?

All the rest of your ranting and raving was just that, ranting and raving and not much sense! I do hope that nothing bad happens if and when Berger gets his feedlot through, after all people that live and work in Morton County deserve the best!

It sure is sad when people that question things before they are done are put down because they want answers before, not after the fact! It seems it is not a free country anymore to tell people to be careful, very careful of what is done in this county as we will all have to live with it, good or bad. "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:00 AM:

" To CLEAN AIR: How does supporting a feedlot deem the rest of "emotionally crippled"? Intelligent, educated, and full of COMMON SENSE for sure - but thanks for the insult... "

Clean Air wrote on Jul 21, 2008 10:35 AM:

" To Thad McCallister, nice rant, yes, you sure are a brilliant public spokesmen, I wish I was such a wordsmith, forgive my ignorance, I am not getting what you mean by Fastidious but Ill take it as a compliment, I do take time and research what I post, I do this for a living in the service of public health. You are right it is a simple phrase that can be found on several websites. Now, ask your self why, is it because it is a great and wonderful thing, every community must have one, no I think not, it is a serious issue causing serious issues around the country. And of course I can back up my comments; it took about ten minutes using Google, or yahoo or any search engine. Here are just a couple of many: Buttel F, Jackson-Smith D. Livestock expansion in Wisconsin: Farmers views on the benefits and costs of large-scale livestock production. PATS Research Report #2. Program on Agriculture and Technology Studies. Madison, WI: University of Wisconsin (1997). Hamed M, Johnson T, Miller K. The impacts of animal feeding operations on rural land values. University of Missouri-Columbia Community Policy Analysis Center Report R-99-02 (1999). MacCannell D. Industrial agriculture and rural community degradation. In Swanson LE, ed. Agriculture and community change in the U.S.: The Congressional research reports (pp. 15-75). Boulder, CO: Westview Press (1988). As for the duck and the six pack rings, well I will leave that one alone, it speaks volumes for its self. And I believe there are many more of you that think like me, but you may not feel it is worth the effort to debate with an emotionally crippled group, I believe it is worth it and is our fundamental right to protect our families and properties for the future generations. P.S. Thad, I drink beer from time to time, likely a bit less then you, but I like a good home made and in a glass bottle that I reuse, nope no 6 packs for me. I like my beer American! "

mh wrote on Jul 21, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Thad, I do enjoy your sense of humor and sarcasm. "

Thad McCallister wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:05 AM:

" Dear Clean Air,

You were so fastidious with your copy/paste of the phrase, A Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFOs), are considered point sources of pollution, as defined by the CWA [Section 502(14)]. Bravo, good job. You know how to use Google search. That simple phrase can be found on several websites.

Now, if you would be so kind to back up your following statements with links to information, facts, or past articles in The Tribune, regarding this declaration of presumed FACT: CAFOs have been time and time again shown to be devastating to an areas environmental quality and overall quality of life, a serious risk to public health and safety. It is clear to me that if you own property in the Mandan - Bismarck areas, you could are likely to see a significant drop in you property values.

Please enlighten us, Clean Air. Share the SPECIFIC links to your studies and devastating results. Im so happy Im not the only one looking out for the safety of school children, roads and the air we share. (P.S. - please tear up your rings from six-packs of beer before discarding. Theyve been known to be devastating to the environmental quality of the sea and overall quality of life for ducks in the Arctic, or something, while presenting serious risks to their health and safety . Or something fashionable and catchy like that. )

It is clear to me that if you're a duck in the Arctic, plastic will cause a considerable drop in the value of your ability to survive. "

Thad McCallister wrote on Jul 20, 2008 10:08 PM:

" #3. Math. 10,000 head? 8,000 head? Ah, whats the difference? Lets just round it up to the nearest whole number, and call it 12,000 head. Thatll scare em. 12,000 blood thirsty, homicidal cattle that are just waiting to break free from the Rubber Ducks trailer to eat children and old people and tear up the road with their hooves. And theyll probably eat some of the road surface too, just for good measure, the dang buggers.

#4. The pot load of cattle. A contract worth of physically delivered live cattle according to CME standards is 40,000 pounds. Hmm, I think Ive got the math for this. See #3 above, and multiply times 2, add the square root of school children consumed by killer cattle divided by the number of school crossing guards stricken down by crazy truckers like the Rubber Duck, minus the gallons of water consumed by Al Gores crossbred ice melting steers. Answer: Not in my Backyard x 2 zillion.

#5. Sleeping at meetings. I brought my sleeping bag. Didnt you?

#6. Lies. See #5, thats what I do in my sleeping bag at County meetings.

#7. Blowing sunshine up my skirt. I wish Berger luck! I really do because he is going to need it and and I do not want anything bad to happen to this area ! Please refer to #1, regarding the warm lemonade, and peeing on my back. It aint raining, wce. You need to find a new cause to rally against. Try plastic rings from six-packs of beer. I hear theyre strangling ducks in the Arctic, or something. I know its not as sexy as killer truckers and steers that consume the worlds water supply, but its a logical start. Right? "

Thad McCallister wrote on Jul 20, 2008 10:07 PM:

" Hmm. Poster wce brings up many, many wonderful points. Although I initially thought the feedlot was a wonderful economic opportunity for Morton County, now Im not so sure.

#1. Water. Water doesnt grow on trees, people. These cattle need water, and theres only a limited amount of water around the globe. Thankfully, Al Gores personal campaign of global warming is actually melting the ice caps, so I think theres more available water coming soon. Less ice, but more water. So, its like a warm lemonade. Or, like someone peeing on your back and telling you its raining. I think wce is familiar with this scenario, since thats the common the sky is falling theme of wces comments.

#2. Truckers. The most vile of human scum, we all know that truckers love to destroy roads and terrorize children outside of their schoolhouses. Have you seen Ice Truckers on TV? They have the audacity to drive their diesel-guzzling rigs over ice. ICE. I dont know why Al Gore hasnt melted that ice yet, but the day is coming. If you need any more proof that truckers are evil and cannot be trusted with the safety of our school children, all you have to do is watch an old episode of B.J. and the Bear - or even better the movie Convoy. If this feedlot is approved, I bet you my last dollar Pig Pen and the Rubber Duck are going to be rolling down the interstate, not stopping for anything. Not the National Guard, not the school crossing guard, and certainly not the Winter Storm Warning that closes down the interstate. Dirty, naughty truckers. Shame on you. "

Bono wrote on Jul 20, 2008 7:12 PM:

" Fred - can't you just moooooooooove your lot somewhere else? "

Clean Air wrote on Jul 20, 2008 6:23 PM:

" A good debate is always healthy, but a Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFOs), are considered point sources of pollution, as defined by the CWA [Section 502(14)]. There are several Federal and through promulgation, State regulatory requirements that must be met, one of just a few is a Nutrient Management Plan, which includes a public review of nutrient management plans before permitting is authorized. CAFOs have been time and time again shown to be devastating to an areas environmental quality and overall quality of life, a serious risk to public health and safety. It is clear to me that if you own property in the Mandan - Bismarck areas, you could are likely to see a significant drop in you property values. Some may say otherwise, but the odors from a large animal feedlot operation are air emissions from anaerobic waste decomposition are particularly offensive. Odors can produce mental health impacts, and many odor-causing substances (e.g., ammonia, hydrogen sulfide, and organic dusts) can also cause physical impacts, aggravating asthma, and other lung disorders. Yes, it is true we need these feedlots, they are an efficient method for supplying our food supply. In 20 years of environmental health and safety experience, not once have I seen these types of projects turn out well when constructed within 50 miles of a populated area. I recommend taking a look at a scientific review conducted by the EPA on AFO at www.epa.gov/guide/feedlots/envimpct.pdf or type in environmental effects of feedlots EPA in you search engine. I would also think the County would be aware of the legal and potential class action litigation that is likely to evolve from this vote, are the taxpayers ready to anti up for what is next? A for sale sign on you home might be needed ASAP, and I mean both Bismarck and Mandan, or be ready to spend the rest of your time indoors, this will be a stinker. "

To Debby Kom wrote on Jul 20, 2008 3:13 PM:

" OMG get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like you keep progress in Mandan & Morton County from moving forward. "

rancher wrote on Jul 19, 2008 7:24 AM:

" Think before you speak,
There was a slaughter house for years right next to the Memorial Bridge on the Mandan side of the river. It just recently closed. Was that dangerous for the children of the area? Most people didn't even know it was there. "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:18 AM:

" Those of us that support Fred Berger and/or the feedlot issue would LOVE to come and picnic at the feedlot!! I'll bring the pickles and buns 'cause we know where the burgers and steaks will come from! "

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK wrote on Jul 18, 2008 6:32 PM:

" TO BEEF ITS WHATS FOR DINNER: I THINK YOU NEED TO GET A REALITY CHECK, PUTTIN GUP A SLAUGHTER HOUSE BY THE FEEDLOT, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND, HOW UNSAFE WOULD THAT BE FOR THE CHILDREN AND PEOPLE IN THAT AREA! "

wce wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:39 PM:

" Sorry I forgot part of my last post:
And rancher says, "since I've loaded more pot lots than you have seen."

Maybe yes, and maybe no! Was my quote of the weights of the cattle or trucks wrong? No!

I guess since that area is going to be so wonderful and sweet smelling, I am sure there will be many picnics held on the feedlot for all the people that supported Mr. Berger! LOL "

wce wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:33 PM:

" It seems there are people posting here that do not even know what route will be used by the Berger Feedlot truckers! Jessy, If you attended the meeting, were you sleeping?
Also, what does a train have to do with the secondary roads in Morton County?

And rancher says, " Was my quote of the weights of the cattle or trucks wrong? No!

As I stated before, I don't care if Mr. Berger builds a feedlot! I just wish it were in a better location! What is wrong with feeling that we need to protect the Crown Butte Dam and our water! I guess a lot according to some of you people!

I am sorry that they Commission decided to let him continue this feedlot but, that is what is and I wish Berger luck! I really do because he is going to need it and and I do not want anything bad to happen to this area !

I just really feel that the people like Jessy and Rancher, who keep calling me a liar is just out of line! I have been respectful of other's posts and would expect that I be treated the same way even if they do not agree with me! "

wce wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:01 PM:

" Beef Its Whats For Dinner wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:50 PM:

" To WCE: I guess you were wrong about the road price, huh? Did you go to the meeting tonight? Also, yes, I know where the Eagle's Nest exit is. I am not simple minded. "
Really? I didn't say you were! But, then why did post that I said to put in by Richardton? hmmmm I see the people that are saying I am telling lies are really the ones that are doing that exact thing!

It seems we are not able to post our views or object to something that we think is going to harm our communities, our lakes and streams and our way of life! And they call people liars and when they misstate what we say!

And if you attended the first two meetings, you would remember that Morman did talk about the costs of building new roads. Was that a lie? If anyone at all thinks that the roads are going to be maintained by Berger for more than 2 years, you have a big surprise coming! He will be after the county to bring that road to better standards and they will do it!

As far as this statement of yours: "The slaughter house can go up next to the feedlot, that will cut down on transportation costs, we will use less oil, and the price of beef will drop. " HAHAHAHAHA! "

firecracker wrote on Jul 18, 2008 3:37 PM:

" do any of you people know where your water comes from?
many of us drink water from the Missouri River via rural water

do you have any idea how many head of cattle sh*t and p*ss in the water or in the nearby areas from eastern MT all the way downstream to Mobridge SD?
ALOT.
BIG DEAL.

I'm voting for Fred! "

Environmental Disaster wrote on Jul 18, 2008 2:51 PM:

" I lived in Ames, Iowa in the summer of 2005. I asked the locals about Hog Farming Operations and NOT ONE person gave it their vote of approval. The cattle livestock operation now presently debated in Morton County is no different than the hog operations in Iowa. The Hog Industry has been entrenched in their operation for many years in Iowa, because it is a corn growing state. Hogs love corn! The neighbors of Hog Farming have said that they are really angry and frustrated with the smell which pollutes the air within a 20 mile circumference of a Hog Farm. The Hog Farms have polluted two lakes and three river systems in central Iowa to the point that the water in these lakes and river will no longer support fish or any other forms of life. The water table has also been polluted and now the drinking water is permanently destroyed and if you want drinkable water, you must haul it to feed your cattle and buy drinking water to drink. The Cattle and Hog Industry is like a cancer. Once it gets established, it will not leave, but only continue to pollute the environment. Underground manure storage tanks eventually will leak, like they did in Iowa. They are NOT a guarantee of manure holding capabilities. North Dakota has become the next state to be coerced by the Cattle Livestock Industry to set up shop here. I hope the planners and officials have enough "vision" to see the writing on the wall and deny any requests by this Cattle Livestock Industry. Once they are here, it is too late! It is a real shame that the Morton County Commissioners approved this permit. Many people in Morton and Burleigh County will suffer the consequences for a long, long time for the small amount of jobs it will be creating. "

Good luck Fred wrote on Jul 18, 2008 10:45 AM:

" The writer was so right about the Crown Butte area - if anyone has taken a look at the properties out there, the feedlot will look much better. The Crown Butte development has been neglected for so many years and nothing is done about it - maybe neighbors could help neighbors clean up the place. I believe they have a board of directors - what are they doing about their area. There should be some regulations on what a person can keep on their properties!! People complain that the value of their houses will go down - the feedlot isn't going to do that - the Crown Butte people are doing that themselves. Perhaps some of the people from the development can get jobs at the feedlot - that is a plus. "

mark wrote on Jul 18, 2008 10:05 AM:

" Good Luck Fred! (and family) "

rancher wrote on Jul 18, 2008 7:47 AM:

" Jessy,
I don't know what the DOT regulations are, but if Debby or wec go to Kist Livestock or Farmers Livestock or talk to anybody who trucks cattle, a pot load of cattle is 50,000 pounds. Legally they may be able to haul more, but that is all a pot load trailer can handle regardless of the road, from gravel to interstate.
I agree that these people are trying to scare everybody, mostly with false statements and LIES. I'm glad to see the permit was approved last night. Hard to believe two commissioners voted against it when Berger met all legal requirements. "

Jessy S. wrote on Jul 18, 2008 2:55 AM:

" I can help you out a bit rancher. "80,000" pounds of cattle equal a whopping 40 tons. If a BNSF Train distributes the weight evenly, they will be able to carry that weight over 20 or so cars. That 40 tons is also the weight limit for most Tractor-Trailers in the US according to the DOT, but I am sure that limit will be much lower for this feedlot operation since we are using county roads that aren't built to interstate standard even after their improvement. The only county highways used will be the new one that goes to the feedlot and Old Red Trail. After that, drivers will be making the 1/2 mile trek on ND 25 south so they can get on I-94 for the 53 mile trip east to Steele and then the trip up ND 3 to Central Dakota Beef in Harvey.

We need these feedlots. According to a June 18th, 2005 article in the Tribune, most of this state's cattle are taken to feedlots in Nebraska and Kansas. The more feedlots that are open here, mean more slaughterhouses, which equals more jobs, and equals more people here in this state. According to that same article, we have 11.5 times more cattle than people, and if we keep half that number of cattle in the state, we will produce the most meat in the country.

Look, people like Debby and wec are scaring tons of people into leaving the state, and are doing it with such outlandish lies that are so stupid that they don't think before stating or writing them, and having semi trucks drive in a North Dakota snowstorm is one of them. Their size makes them almost impossible to drive in just heavy wind, let alone a snowstorm. In his latest argument, wec states that most vehicles drive in a snowstorm. Sorry, but you are comparing apples to peas. "

Beef Its Whats For Dinner wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:50 PM:

" To WCE: I guess you were wrong about the road price, huh? Did you go to the meeting tonight? Also, yes, I know where the Eagle's Nest exit is. I am not simple minded. Maybe someone should think about getting a permit for a slaughter house. We will have lots of cattle in Morton County! The slaughter house can go up next to the feedlot, that will cut down on transportation costs, we will use less oil, and the price of beef will drop. "

mat wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:22 PM:

" Any news on how the meeting went? "

rancher wrote on Jul 17, 2008 7:52 PM:

" WCE,
Thank you for pointing out that to me since I've loaded more pot lots than you have seen. I just don't want people thinking you put 80,000 pounds of cattle on a truck as the original letter says "cattle trucks that are hauling 80,000 pounds of cattle." Notice that is a direct quote from the original letter.
I honestly don't know what a semi and trailer weighs, but I really doubt 30,000 pounds, but that is beside the point when you consider I was pointing out an error in the original letter.
I'll end with this: Good Luck Fred Berger! "

kay wrote on Jul 17, 2008 12:43 PM:

" Funny now that someone wants to make good use of the land, now people worry about crown butte area, have you seen it lately? It hasn't been taken care of for years! I think it's a great idea to start up a feedlot in this area, if you've ever seen berger feedlots, you'd realize how in shape, up to date, clean, and organized these areas are, if anything it will look improved from what the area looks like presently. "

county road and taxes wrote on Jul 17, 2008 12:27 PM:

" I'm a bit confused. If you move the feedlot to near the Glenn Ullin exit how will this make less money spent on roads in Morton County? If I read the map correctly, Glenn Ullin is in Morton County also. So the heavy trucks will still need to be driven on Morton County roads and maintained by Morton county and their tax $. So is this really your issue or are you just trying to use it as an excuse? And if the interstate is closed, then what, they still use other Morton County backroads, how does this matter if it is near Glenn Ullin or near Mandan? What exactly is the point, is the point that you don't want them using the "same" backroads that you do? I just don't get it? "

Halatbis wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:49 AM:

" Interesting isn't it? ND has no room for cattle feed lot operations. I've lived in Cal., NY, Iowa, Texas, Minn, and ND--out of those states ND produces the least meat and/or meat products. Guess we have so much industry and big jobs that no one needs to improve their standard of living. Does anyone wonder why so many of our young people are moving away? Wake up folks--our state is changing and growing. "

Online Editor wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:39 AM:

" To Pineapple: This isn't an editorial, it is a letter to the editor. Editorials are written by newspaper staff, letters are submitted by readers. "

wce wrote on Jul 17, 2008 11:06 AM:

" To all of you that think that when the interstate is closed there is NOTHING moving.... I have news for all of you! Do you live close to a secondary road? If not, you have no idea about how much traffic is out there! Interstae may be closed because if heavy snow on the roads or because of drifting snow but, there are always people that are out in that weather. I am not saying that there will be cattle being hauled away from the feedlots or into them (none of us can say that, not even Mr. Berger because it all depends on the truckers) but,there is definately traffic on the secondary roads when interstate roads are closed! These truckers DO NOT STOP! Even everyday people will not heed the weathernman's advice! WE all know that!

TO: Beef its whats for dinner< I don't but there are lots of stupid people out there that do! "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 17, 2008 9:57 AM:

" To W: It would also be interesting to know how many people opposed to this feedlot live NO WHERE near it... ummm, but I'd bet they like their beef... "

wce wrote on Jul 17, 2008 9:21 AM:

" Rancher: You are talking about the weight of the animals, one has to figure the entire weight of the truck and animals:
While livestock are shipped in many types of vehicles, the work horse of the commercial industry is the semi or "Pot" trailer. These are 40 feet long by 8.5 feet wide . They have multiple decks so that more animals can be hauled at a time. When attached to a truck they can legally haul weight of 80,000 pounds including the weight of the truck and trailer.
I don't think you are really a rancher or you would have understood this! "

Dave wrote on Jul 17, 2008 9:16 AM:

" wce - why so much yelling? "

Mandan Resident wrote on Jul 17, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Does anyone out there remember anything anyone ever wanted to do in Mandan that was not met with major controversy? I really struggle reading all of these comments. Fred Berger is a good person, trying to make a living just like we all are. He is within his rights to be developing his own business and is doing so in the manner required by current regulation. Do you really think he is trying to 'destroy' anything???? He is trying to do the "right" thing with this new feedlot! "

Rancher wrote on Jul 17, 2008 7:41 AM:

" There are definetly problems with this letter-to-the-editor.
First, a cattle pot load is 50,000 pounds, not 80,000 pounds. Second, during a blizzards, with the Interstate closed, those cattle haulers are not moving - no since risking the dollars a full pot load of cattle are worth.
Next, Debby, your response about not buying cattle from a feedlot because of the "hormones" is a bit confusing. Can you enlighten us about which hormones every calf gets when it goes into the feedlot? Implants (hormones) are given to calves when they are worked early in life (think a month or two old) - when the rancher still has them. That has nothing to do with the feedlot. And guess what, cattle in feedlots are fed hay too, just like the ones you buy from area ranchers. They are also fed grain, and I'm assuming the beef you buy has also been fed grain, or it would be really, really lean.
Good luck Fred Berger. I truly hope your lot goes in and I feel for you with all the crap you put up with. It reminds me of all the environmentalists who fought new refineries and had them stopped - now we have $4 gas. These same people won't be happy until we have to pay $4 for a pound of burger. "

mat wrote on Jul 17, 2008 3:20 AM:

" Is this location zoned for Agriculture/business purposes? If so then he has every right to build there.

If you are so dead set against it, then maybe someone needs to go after the "zoning commission" to get it changed.

The mud slinging, scare tactics are getting old. "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 16, 2008 11:48 PM:

" Maybe the bottom line is truly about the 'almighty dollar' - maybe you people out there have plans to develop this agricultural area because you know you could personally make more money - maybe we should keep pushing the ag businesses farther and farther out until they are completely out of ND - I think 9 miles out of town, in an area ZONED for AGRICULTURE, in an area with AGRICULTURE already clearly established, in a county in which Berger has lived and worked his entire life is EXACTLY the place he should establish his feedlot and darn' it - I think we should WELCOME him and THANK him for his contributions to our community!! "

wce wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:53 PM:

" Exasperated: This development is not going to happen in the next year or two, it is happening over the years! But, eventually it will be out there! Things never stay the same! 40 years ago there was no Crown Butte but, I guess our county officials decided that they wanted it to begin out there! It was a Federal Project some years back, maybe 30 years ago. Why did the county let them do that? Why was it not kept as a agriculture area? They began something way back then and it is NOT going to stop! If anyone wants to build big agri-businesses they should do it away from the growing population! This is not a an ordinary farm or diary
This is MEGA CATTLE FEEDING OPERATION! I am not against anyone earning a living or producing food for the rest of us! But, there is a time and place for everything! The time should have been for Berger to look for a place 20 years ago instead of last year! The place should be where he is wanted, not where he is NOT wanted. He seems to be coming into this thing with an attitude that it has to be done 'right now'! Well, why wasn't he trying to find a place long before he was forced by the health dept. to get off the river? "

Jessy S. wrote on Jul 16, 2008 8:10 PM:

" I have to agree with the majority. Nothing moves during a North Dakota bilzzard except the snow and that is usually driven by wind. WEC might have an idea too and that is to move the feedlot further west, but Eagles Nest is not the suggested place due to ownership issues. Besides, there is something more vile and disgusting much closer to Mandan and if Debby is logical in preventing a feedlot, we should have no trouble shutting down that disgusting refinery and seeing top fuel prices go from $3.99 per gallon to about $5.09 per gallon. That refinery is worse than a feedlot any day yet there aren't any complaints about it. "

Smells like money to me wrote on Jul 16, 2008 12:33 PM:

" I know freddie-don't like him much. But he is a go getter and if he has crossed the
t's and dotted the i's more power to him. He should have the same opportunities to succeed or fail just as anyone. I wish him the best. Debbie you are really stretching it in your letter. "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 16, 2008 11:55 AM:

" To WCE: If the area proposed for the feedlot is soon going to be so heavily populated with subdivisions why did Planning and Zoning approve the proposal? Also, are the current dairy and farming operations going to have to move to the said interchange so the new residents don't have to smell them? Maybe since there are already so many residential properties and there are supposedly going to be so many more in such a close proximity, Mr. Berger could just run a garden hose from each house to provide water to his animals... "

wce wrote on Jul 16, 2008 10:46 AM:

" TO: Beef its whats for dinner, Please pay attention! I did NOT say the feedlot should go in at or near Richardton! If you can read, I said, the Ethanol plant manager wants to sell their corn byproducts to Mr. Berger! I said the feedlot should go near an I-94 Interchange like Eagles Nest. I guess a lot of you do not know where that is. I am sorry for using a term that many of you do not know about. It would be the interchange that is between Hebron and Glen Ullin .That is a long way from Richardton! As to that point about the people of Richardton 'speaking up' why should they, even if the feedlot were to go in close to their town? The feedlot will NOT SMELL! Wasn't that the whole point of 'Mr. Berger and Friends' testimony?

I think the feedlot is too close to an area that is going to be heavily populated in the near future. I think Bismarck and Mandan are growing and growing fast! Mandan is growing to the West, whether people like it or not! Just look at all the development out that way right now! Even the Planning and Zoning and the County Commission already allowed another development to go in next to the Crown Butte area! How many more will be going in there? After all MWWS does furnish water to that area. But, they will not furnish water to the feedlot. That was stated at the meeting! Where is Berger going to get the water for 10,000 head of cattle?

As to not paying attention at the meeting, where were YOU? Mr. Morman said $800,000/mile for NEW road! NOT PAVED ROAD! There was no mention of paving anything! I know a new road would cost more than redoing the road already there but, Morman's figures were from last year! The price of fuel has gone up ! "

to getting facts straight wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:40 AM:

" from earlier articles, Mr Berger did apply for a 10,000 head operation, but is only going to be allowed to operate an 8,000 head operation. "

mad cow wrote on Jul 16, 2008 8:48 AM:

" To CC, That's great, you found, you asked, you quoted. Where are the three other feedlots with 8000 head so that we may do the same?

Has anyone noticed all of the Canadian cattle trucks that come down HWY 83, they are going to be finished a little further south. When Berger gets his operation going I suspect a good portion of that 8000 head are going to be Canadian! "

Ms D.. wrote on Jul 16, 2008 7:26 AM:

" MY HATS OFF TO YOU MR. BERGER!!! I HOPE THE FEEDLOT GOES THRU....!! I have lived in Kansas & Nebraska, both areas of feedlots...I also lived in large city areas... where lots of smog was.... I will take the feedlot smell anyday... at least you can see... I have yet to see smog for cow manure!! LOL...
Go Freddy!!! YOU ROCK!! "

CC wrote on Jul 15, 2008 3:49 PM:

" People are paid to scare you! That is their jobThey come to every new livestock operation meeting in the state
Why would anyone put an agriculture business in an area of the county zoned for AGRICULTURE?? That IS crazy talk!! Livestock producers dont normally pay truckers to drive around the city of Mandan with their cattle when the roads are CLOSED. Do they??
I think those calves come from ranches. Yes, even the calves from Kist come from ranches. And there are currently over 51,000 calves each year in Morton County that come from ranches. And there is currently over 293,000 tons of Hay in Morton County that gets harvested and moved somewhere. A majority of these products are moved by trucks.
I spoke with another North Dakota feedlot in the state. Oh, by the way, there are 3 in the state with 8,000 head. (all closer to homes and towns than proposed site and no outcries of health or despair) I asked them what they spent in the local economy in 1 years time. Adding up feed, vet supplies, fuel, repairs, utilities, labor, and vet services it was over $3,860,000 every year. Do that math. "

getting facts straight wrote on Jul 15, 2008 10:06 AM:

" TO: BEEF ITS WHATS FOR DINNER: ON THE ACTUAL PERMIT BERGER APPLIED FOR A 10,000 HEAD FEEDLOT "

mandan wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:43 PM:

" To Debbie: You wrote a great editorial. You made some outstanding points to ponder. Thank you. "

Beef its whats for dinner wrote on Jul 14, 2008 9:53 PM:

" to wce: why is it ok for the people near Richardton to live near a feedlot but the people of Crown Butte should be exempt? Do you think people near Richardton are subordinates? I think some Richardton residents should speak up about this! Also, you mustn't have paid attention at the meeting or you were not there. I believe $800,000 was a quote from the county road dept to black top the road. Another fact you need to get straight is that Fred is proposing an 8000 animal unit facility, not a 10000 head operation. "

wce wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:48 PM:

" No one wants them to move out of the county, just not so close to Bismarck and Mandan! Why not over by an I-94 interchange like by Eagles Nest? There was a guy from the Ethonol plant commenting on how good it would be for his company if the feedlot were to buy the by-products from making ethanal. Wouldn't it be better for the feedlot to be located closer to that facility that is at Richardton instead of way down here by Mandan?
Not one of you, have addressed the real concern about the water issue! Where is Berger going to get the water? NO one has answered that question, no matter how many times I ask it! Where is the water for 10,000 head of cattle going to come from?
Remember your taxes also, in Morton County! The roads are going to have to be fixed up, at $800,000 a mile that is a lot of taxes to pay even if they go the other route and only do 2 miles and then how long will Co Rd. 83 last with those trucks going day in and day out. Berger says only one feed truck per day! For 10,000 head of cattle? I am not a farmer but, I dont think so! The county commission was already lamenting the fact that the rural subdivisions like at Wainright and others needed road repair done and there was no money to do it. But, they will let a feedlot in that will be taxed at the ag tax rate, where at Wainrights the taxes are higher because they have nice houses there they can tax! They pay a higher tax rate than the feedlots and farmers!
There has not been enough thought into this feedlot, it seems like it is being pushed through very fast! "

W wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:45 PM:

" It would be interesting to know how many people that are in favor of this feed lot live within five miles of the proposed location. "

To Kickback wrote on Jul 14, 2008 7:29 PM:

" I have noticed, as well, that the county commission candidates aren't voicing any opinions, and for some of them that is quite different from their usual lengthy blogs regarding any and all other issues. Maybe we need a forum of these candidates before the election. This issue has become a rather loose cannon. "

Beef its whats for dinner wrote on Jul 14, 2008 7:27 PM:

" to wce: I have two questions. Do you wait for the "no travel advised" warning to buy necessary groceries? I wouldn't think so. Just as I would think Fred wouldn't wait for that same day to have feed for the 8000 animal unit feedlot trucked in. Also, if by "Mrs Beger" you are referring to "Mrs Berger" what is your point in bringing her into your blog? "

Beef its whats for dinner wrote on Jul 14, 2008 7:17 PM:

" To wce: I want a blog from you when the interstate is closed and it better be a "the roads are great" road report. Also, you should invest in a two way radio so you can tell the truckers to avoid the closed interstate and take ORT to the feedlot. You could show them the way!
To Halatbis: take me to Arizona with you.... "

Halatbis wrote on Jul 14, 2008 4:25 PM:

" The logical thing for our beef, pork, chicken, mutton, and all smelly or noxious industries is to move somewhere else. Maybe all beef should come from Argentina, chicken from Vietnam, mutton from Scotland, etc. I think you see where this is going. We don't need jobs in ND---just divide up the oil money and send my check to me in Arizona. "

kickback wrote on Jul 14, 2008 2:00 PM:

" What I find humorous is the fact that crown butte residents as well as others, are going around posting comments telling people how to vote in the upcoming election. So you want to elect three NEW commissioner's knowing full well that they won't make a stand on this issue. All three of the candidates are hiding in the background. How will they be any better than the three that are up for re-election now? "

Dave wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:45 PM:

" I have to agree with Exasperated, this is really stretching things. "

wce wrote on Jul 14, 2008 11:59 AM:

" TO: Exasperated and la, you are very wrong about no traffic anywhere when the interstate is closed! The trucks do not stop! We have all kinds of secondary roads that are not closed and the trucks move all day and all night when the I-94 is closed! Just because YOU do not see the traffic, (it does not run near your house) does not mean it is not there! Do you htink these truckers shut down? It is money in their pocket, or should I say out of their pocket if they are not running!
I amnot saying that there will be cattle moving but, if the Berger Feedlot needs feed or 10,000 cattle, you can bet that there weill be trucks ont he roads, he cannot afford to let his beef go without feed!

The WATER is another issue, now 'la' says they will buy their water.
FROM WHERE? Mr. Kemnitz, says it will not be from MWWS, so who else is going to be able to supply the water? The city of Mandan? LOL Digging wells? Is that kind of a water demand going to bring problems to the rest of the people already depending on wells int he area by dropping their water supply? This is a real problem as far as I can see, for the County commission as well as all the peopleat feel the feedlot should go in! We all know that Mrs. Beger is FOR the feed lot, she stood up and testified to that at one meeting! LOL "

Exasperated wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Wow, this is complete NONSENSE. In the event of a blizzard where the interstates are closed you people think trucks are going to be hauling cattle on Old Red Trail? Are you serious? Now you're just grasping at straws since those concerns that were actually legitimate have been addressed (over and over again). And DEBBY - it's wonderful that you can buy your beef directly from your neighbors, however, the majority of people in this nation do not have this luxury - the reality is most of our beef is supplied via feedlots who often times purchase their cattle from local sale barns where many of your neighbors sell their cattle. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:33 AM:

" Remember the Morton County Commissioners elections are in November. "

NDr wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:15 AM:

" My only complaint about CAFO's is the tax issue. ND really needs to change it's property tax laws regarding these operations. Currently, they fall under the agriculture rules and no buildings or other types of construction for them get taxed. Only land values. This isn't right. These operations cost the taxpayers a lot of money on road repair and other infrastructure. These are businesses and should be taxed accordingly just like any other business. It's time we get rid of our antiquated tax structure in this area. "

letters wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:10 AM:

" To: LL, you also make some very interesting facts, you should also write a letter to the editor!!! "

debby wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:08 AM:

" TO MARK- First of all, it would be nice if you could spell my name the right way, I actually get my beef direct from farmers around my area, I would never buy beef that is from a feedlot with all the hormones that is in it, I prefer my beef to be natural, grass and hay feed, it tastes a lot better too, not sooo fatty like the beef from feedlots!!!!!!!!!!! "

kickback wrote on Jul 14, 2008 10:07 AM:

" As far as this meeting on Thursday, I really doubt anyone for or against the feedlot will be able to speak that night. What is there really left to say? "

LL wrote on Jul 14, 2008 9:44 AM:

" Debby makes some good points about traffic on roads not designed for heavy traffic and the cost of improvement and maintenance of these roads by the citizens of Morton County. Yes, it might bring some income into the area and fill the pockets of Fred Berger but that is not a reason to jeopardize the quality of life (terrible odor, contamination of ground and surface water) of the citizens of west central Morton County. Mandanites and even Bismarckers have to ask themselves the question. Is my quality of life (the right to breath air that does not smell of noxious odors) more important then the right of a few people to line their pockets with the Almighty Dollar? Feeding 10,000 cattle in a confined area close to a major population area, will produce an enormous amount of smelly foul animal excrement. I for one will be in attendance at the July 17th meeting in the basement of the courthouse in Mandan. "

Harleyp wrote on Jul 14, 2008 9:10 AM:

" What health ? Mandan doesn't get their water fromthe Crown Butte area. It gets it from the Missouri river. More business brought threw Mandan is more money for Mandan. But like usual Mandan people don't want something new. "

warmachine wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:57 AM:

" You might want to talk to Fred Berger who is quite sure it is "Worth it." "

Mark wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Hey Debbie, just a quick question. Where do you get the beef or other meats you feed your family. I just bet it is from some feedlot somebody complained about just like you before it was constructed. I am sure you are sincere in your worries but this is just another typical Not in My Backyard complaint by a neighbor of a large scale commercial operation justifying her worries by the best hot button issues available (kids, roads, water). "

la wrote on Jul 14, 2008 7:11 AM:

" When the interstate is closed their won't be anybody moving around let alone hauling cattle. The water will be purchase so their will be a financial gain which helps all citizens on the City of Mandan water lower the cost of maintaining their water system. Interesting again! "

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