Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Government disputes $58 billion claim in Indian trust lawsuit

Government disputes $58 billion claim in Indian trust lawsuit

Jun 14, 2008 - 08:46:34 CDT

By MARY CLARE JALONICK
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A group of American Indians is not entitled to a $58 billion claim against the United States - or anything close to that amount - over the mismanagement of century-old trust lands, government lawyers argued Monday.

The Indians' 1996 suit claims they were swindled out of billions of dollars in oil, gas, grazing, timber and other royalties overseen by the Interior Department since 1887. They say the government has profited from money that should gone promptly into individual Indian accounts. The class-action suit covers about 500,000 Indians and their heirs.

Opening arguments began Monday in a trial that U.S. District Judge James Robertson has called to determine how much the government should pay the Indians. He ruled earlier this year that efforts by the Interior Department to account for the trust money were inadequate.

The Interior Department has argued in filings with the court that the judge lacks jurisdiction to award any money at all. But they are also attacking the amount the trust account holders say they are owed.

"There is no legal or factual basis to pay the plaintiffs billions of dollars or even close to a billion dollars," said Robert Kirschman, an attorney representing the government. He said the amount would be "in the millions not the billions."

Lawyers for the Indian plaintiffs defended their estimates and plan to try and prove their accuracy in the upcoming trial.

"We expect that this court will be satisfied that what we have done is reasonable and fair, and represents the money that is due our clients," said Dennis Gingold, lawyer for the individual account holders.

At issue is how much of the royalty money was held by the government over the years, and whether it went to the Indian trust holders, to third parties or was held in the government treasury. Because many of the records have been lost or destroyed, it is now up to the court to decide how to best estimate how much the individual Indians - many of whom are nearing the end of their lives - should be paid.

If a dollar amount were awarded, it is uncertain how the government would pay it.

Congress may have to set the money aside, a tough sell in tight time. The Indian plaintiffs argue that the money could paid directly and does not require action by Congress.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., and Arizona's John McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee, tried to prompt a settlement in the case three years ago, when McCain led the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. But they were not able to get the two sides to agree on an amount.

The government later offered the Indian plaintiffs less than $7 billion to settle the case, but they immediately rejected that offer.

Filed by Blackfeet Indian Elouise Cobell, the lawsuit deals with individual Indians' lands. Several tribes have sued separately, claiming mismanagement of their lands.

News > State

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Comments

randy wrote on Nov 27, 2008 11:24 PM:

" ha there,does anybody know how much the chippewas setteled for in the land into trust case.and if so how much we are going to get,lol i live in tacoma wash,so it hard for me to find out whats gong on thanks "

Read history wrote on Jun 23, 2008 3:32 AM:

" To: Debt Paid & just me,
You people need to read of why we have reservations because the so called goverment didn't want us to live they way we were living, they thought just because we weren't like them that is was wrong! So they pushed us on to little tiny lands made us stop providing for ourselves, but they never HELD up their part of the bargain!!! To this day we still don't get all these things we were promised so long ago, even our court system wasn't good enough for "the goverment" they have to step in and take care of the REAL crimes, read up on that!! You people that like to say stuff about us natives are the very same people that never keep up your part of a deal!!!! Except when it has to do with other races, like why are we paying stuff in Vietnam? Because after the war the war "the goverment" felt bad and made promises to them in another COUNTRY but still have yet to fullfill there promise to us the Native Americans, so now that some tribes are calling them on it people like you are sure to step in and have things to say when you don't even know the facts!!!! SO DO SOME READING BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS ON THINGS YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!!!!! "

a reader wrote on Jun 15, 2008 1:51 AM:

" the government is guilty and resposible for the money being misused. we all know that. it is the way they thought of us natives and did not think twice of stealing. they did not look at us as humans, history tells that. now they are being called on their misdeeds. they can deny all they want, they still view us in the same way. but is their own rooster coming home to roost. they declared "kill the indian save the man" and stole children to send to boarding schools and forced children into boarding schools and wanted to educate us. now we are lawyers and doctors and professionals and need to be held accountable. "

J-C wrote on Jun 14, 2008 11:34 AM:

" Those of you who are complaining about our government, did you vote? If not, you have no right to complain. Also, there are many many countries in this world where you can go to live. Try them, you may like it. Just a thought, peoples have been subjugated and dominated by others ever since man lived in caves and not just here in the US. If it upsets you then do something constructive to help things get better, don't just complain. Many volunteer agencies can use your help. It is a beautiful day, go help someone. "

CPO wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:34 PM:

" Here we go again... another he said, she said, they said type of article. The Tribune left the article on the website just long enough for people to start complaining about what was done and what wasn't done to the Indian. They like to start Indian/white arguments. Just leave it alone. Report and take it off. "

Notnek wrote on Jun 13, 2008 5:12 PM:

" How does this work? The government collects royalties on deeded land because the rightful owner in as Indian. Then they forget to pass the money along. Then the money goes (poof) gone into another Government agency or the pockets of some political party. The stories author some how forgot to mention that the records at the Interior Dept were scraped just after the suit was filed. Isn't Government wonderful????? "

Ask the government wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:21 AM:

" If you pay into social security where does that go?? Ask Senator Dole? He didn't ask me if he could borrow it? Look it up and find out where it' s going?? Will the US Gov. not tell you? They can easily destroy papers. Remember the government is a strong entity and can do what it wants. "

one must be of that race wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:15 AM:

" I cannot fathom what it was like for the Jews and the halocaust. I cannot fathom what it was like to be a Black person because I am not a Black person who had slave relatives. I cannot fathom what is like to be a Mexican, because I am not a Mexican. I can understand what it is like to be a Native American of the Yanktonai tribe, because I am one. I am a descendant of the White Stone Massacre. My mother was forcibly taken away to the boarding school to be civilized, christianized, and assimilated. WHY because the US Government wanted it that way. My grandmother had land taken from her in a deceitful manner. I was taught by the White man that in order to know the culture/ race one must study the history. Please anyone who does not know why this issue is brougt to the
public, please consult a knowledgeable attorney, or Native American. and or read/study the issue at hand. They will tell you of all the atrocities the US
Government has done to us. "

LaKoTa wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:55 AM:

" does the word 'holocaust' mean anything to you civilized people? Hitler was small beans in that department. research your history of coercion and dishonesty. the mass graves your civilized society created are still being discovered today. all the ignorant comments regarding this matter are just another attempt to justify your actions and clear your conscience.
anpetu waste "

ToJustME wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:29 AM:

" I don't believe anything was stolen from anyone. If you remember the United States purchased the vast majority of that land from the French in a little thing called the Louisiana Purchase so either it was acquired legally or the French didn't have the right to sell it and the US got shafted by them. Either way throughout history there has been fighting between groups of people (even between various Indian tribes) and ownership of land has changed because of this fighting. To the victors go the spoils. Is it fair? I don't know but that's the way it's always been. Both sides did some pretty horrible things but all and all I don't think Indians came out of it too bad if you compare it to what happened to other defeated peoples throughout history. Also, I agree with Debt Paid about the Constitution guaranteeing equal protection of people regardless of race. Indians are citizens of the US so how can they given additional benefits not available to the general public? I know people will say it's because of treaties but treaties shouldn't be allowed to circumvent the Constitution. "

Debt Paid wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:00 AM:

" I'm just curious here. Indians have their reservations which are sovereign land. They have their own laws, courts, and police. They don't pay state taxes, and dont have to follow state laws (while on the reservation). They also have free healthcare through IHS. What happened to "all men are created equal"? How is it someone can be governed by different laws based on race?

We have spent billions on reservations, and have tried to help them out. I'm not saying what we did in our past was right, but when do you think our debt is paid? "

JustMe wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:18 AM:

" Our development has been free on reservations for years, yet I only hear complaining that it still isn't giving enough. Maybe we should come in wreckin ball style and take our destruction with us, I'm sure when it is -40 outside you will be happy to be back in the teepees. "

LaKoTa wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:27 AM:

" these lands were a vast paradise, free of disease, greed and dishonor. your so called "development" in our eyes is "destruction" "

Wondering wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:09 AM:

" How would the government know the amount when they were the ones destroying records? You have to ask why did you destroy records? Hmmm....so they wouldn't have to pay! "

Native wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:55 AM:

" if you didn't steal our land you wouldn't have roads, cities and street to build. we are you foundation from where YOU live now. think about that!!! "

just a thought wrote on Jun 12, 2008 3:15 PM:

" How much was this country worth before any developement took place?
no roads, cities, houses etc. no oil, gold, or fields of grain. If the Indians insist on being paid for a vast open land, then they will have to pay for all the improvements that have happened since the White Man took over. a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into developing this land. How about it, what is it worth to you, you don't expect people to work for nothing do you? "

JustMe wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:41 AM:

" John you must be nuts, this is not about paying money back to China. Reread the article. It dates back to the time we supposedy stole the land from the indians, because they had ownership rights to EVERYTHING. No matter the land, the indians owned it, and we stole it ALL from them. This is compensation just for the minerals to it. I'm pretty sure when we stole the land that we did not have it planned a 100 years later that China was going to become developed and we would owe gold to them. "

John wrote on Jun 11, 2008 5:42 PM:

" It is funny how our gov can print phony money that has no value, and pay for the loans by using this trust money that isnt theirs to pay for it, If I was to do that, I would go to jail for a long time, but I guess the government hates competition. Or they take the land away that was given to the indians, because it has gold in it. Of course they need the gold, to keep the devalueing dollar from being less than the paper it is printed on. Print to much money, value goes down, steal some gold from the natives and give it to China to pay off some interest on the loans for the money that was printed, that had no gold behind it. That is what this is all about. It isnt about not paying the indians what they are owed for the land we stole, it is to pay a debt to the countries we owe for the money the gov printed that had no actual gold behind it. Same thing with social security, that is another place the gov is stealing from to pay off interest, we have no products that the rest of the world wants, so lets just steal it, ahh the american way. "

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