Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - ATVs damage road ditches

ATVs damage road ditches

Apr 08, 2008 - 05:41:11 CDT

By DON WEISZ
Bismarck

When driving some of the outskirts of Bismarck recently, it was hard not to notice how some of the right-of-way ditches are becoming so rutted by ATV and motorcycle traffic.

If or when we do get some decent rainfall, water is going to erode a lot of these beaten-down trails into gulleys that will need repair, which I'm sure most government bodies don't have budgets for. When it becomes absolutely necessary, the money will come from us, the taxpayers.

Beside being unsightly, unsafe, and creating erosion problems and silt runoff, a highway maintenance tractor mowing grass is going to drop its wheels in one of these ruts some day and the tractor will roll if it's already on a slope.

Maybe the sales of ATVs and license fees need to include a fee to repair the damage they cause. Lawmakers need to come to a decision on this increasing problem.

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Comments

Sandra wrote on Jul 4, 2009 11:56 AM:

" Read this again. PLEASE. Great great insight and comman sense. Let's make ND grow not be some out dated state no one wants to move to.......
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MP wrote on Apr 19, 2009 11:13 PM:

" This state does not have much to offer. This is the state with the least public land in the US. Which is the biggest hold back to economic growth. Farmers own the whole state. And when the do sell land, they act like its gold plated. There is alot of revenue to be made from atv recreation. West Virginia has the second largest ATV trail system in the world. They charge $46.00 for out of state registration for one year of trail use. They sold nearly 30,000 out of state passes for 2008. No telling what the users spent in the local economy. Minnesota has an outstanding trail system also.
Anyway, how dare someone use the only state land in North Dakota that is available for this sport. I didnt know ditches where a valuable commodity. Except in North Dakota where there is no public land. Ironic is'nt it? " "

juston wrote on May 27, 2009 8:56 PM:

" These rude, disrepectful, atv riders? adults ? NO WAY.[ who teach their kids to be really bad ] that force motorist to move out of their way, throw the finger, shout, rev their engines all on Pittston City Pennslyvania streets. If you ask them to behave they come back with six -not -so- bright-friends??? to haress you.. Eleven years and the police have caught two or three.... "

MP wrote on Apr 19, 2009 11:13 PM:

" This state does not have much to offer. This is the state with the least public land in the US. Which is the biggest hold back to economic growth. Farmers own the whole state. And when the do sell land, they act like its gold plated. There is alot of revenue to be made from atv recreation. West Virginia has the second largest ATV trail system in the world. They charge $46.00 for out of state registration for one year of trail use. They sold nearly 30,000 out of state passes for 2008. No telling what the users spent in the local economy. Minnesota has an outstanding trail system also.
Anyway, how dare someone use the only state land in North Dakota that is available for this sport. I didnt know ditches where a valuable commodity. Except in North Dakota where there is no public land. Ironic is'nt it? "

atver atv owner wrote on May 11, 2008 9:12 PM:

" I own an atv and ride some of these ditches. I can't imagine that the little rut that get made with an atv can hurt a loaded truck that is going into the farmers field i have worked for farmers before and the fields have just as big bumps in them. To the people that think the atvers are the ones throwing around all the garbage, i would be willing to bet it is some of the lazy campers, and boaters. We proably should ban boats from the river to because they are poluting the water, and the propellers are shifting the sand around under the water. Forbid if anybody can do something and have a little fun in this world. Now if people are actually tearing through your property i can see but if it is the county ditch in front or behind your house that is not your property. If you don't like it move. Instead of living in the country why don't you move into the city were you can here your neighbor leave in the morning for work. "

recreational fun wrote on Apr 17, 2008 4:20 PM:

" I think that the people who have never rode an atv or motorcycle, that are posting comments saying they are fed up with the ditch traffic should for say, "dont knock it till ya try it". dont get me wrong i dont even own an atv or motorcycle anymore, but its a thrill, a time to get out and have fun. just like the $20,000-$60,000 boats on the river. our community is pretty wealthy, well at least it seems that way. not everyone can afford recreation vehicles like that. and a atv or dirtbike is a cheaper thrill then alot of other things... and for the comment about shootin the kid with a paintball so he dont ride any more, your a Flying genious that way on the weekends instead of legally having fun, those young people will probalbly just go out and get hammered since there is not a whole lot to do around here. Oh ya i forget theres TONS to do around here, so much we can do it all in one day, go frolfing, biking, roller blading, hit up the river. ya. keep taking away our activities and well find our own "activities" to keep us content, and thats when the trickle effect will start. well need another $100,000 to cut down teen drinking again and then probably another 50+ officers to enforce it... Oh heres an idea take some of the money used to cut teen drinking and put it towards grading out the ruts put in the ditches by the kids who are out NOT drinking because there out having fun SOBER. thanks and start looking at the effects your choices could have.. "

Unbelievable wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:58 PM:

" To "Sheriffs are a joke" and "Burleigh resident" you two have great comments. I thought it was just me seeing things at the rural fire dept. and my observance of poor job skills. I would be interested in hearing more about the Sherffs dept.. (Bismarck Tribune I smell a story) I must defend Sheriff Heinert though, he has done me good thus far. I just wish he'd clean house and get a crew who works like he does for citizens. It is sad to know that in an emergency the Sheriffs dept. may not be doing a correct job or even give a crap if they are dropping calls. Just asking do ATV's have to be registered and insured or is that the owners decision? Is there a legal age to drive ATVs? Legislators meet in 2009 why not ask yours to introduce a bill in regards to this matter. There seems to be a need for something because there is a lot of response from both sides to this article. Good Luck to everyone and I hope it works out. "

Burleigh Resident wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:39 PM:

" It might help is the Sheriffs Dept would actually patrol the county instead of sitting at the rural fire dept drinking coffee or at their dispatch center. I rarely see a patrol car outside the city limits anymore. It's sad to see such a waste of my law enforcement tax dollars. "

Mom too wrote on Apr 15, 2008 4:32 PM:

" I have an idea.....PAINTBALL GUNS. Blast one at the kid's backside, and the orange paint does NOT wash off. Mommy will inquire how it got there, Jr. will say he got shot at (big deal--far away, they don't hurt) and Mommy will be POed since the orange stain has ruined his brand new Aero jeans = ) I can assure you Jr. will not be back around. "

Been There wrote on Apr 15, 2008 2:15 PM:

" I think I get your point. But airports, railroads and other nuisances are not on the property of the homeowner. Right of way is. The homeowner is responsible, by law, for maintaining it at their own expense and will probably be included in some way in any lawsuit that comes about from an injury or worse occuring on their property, even if they were sitting in their house watching TV at the time.

Does it seem fair that the property owner should have no control over who rides in what way on their own property but they bear the risk of considerable liability should an accident occur? That seems unfair to me. "

ATV Mom wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:56 PM:

" We watch them every night from almost any window in my house we can see them and all of their activities and it's not just simply driving on it that bothers me....so YES I do know who it is and it's the same kids. Between whipping around in circles, finding the mud and again tearing around in it by digging ruts, break stands, wheelies and trying to drive on the side 2 wheels what exactly more type of proof do you need that this is not what the law describes of being able to use these ditches for. If they are simply going to drive to use them to go sight seeing then fine but as you can tell and I see with my own eyes this is not what is happening and can only imagine they are acting like this because they live down around the corner so their parents can not see what they are doing. Matter of fact my husband told them to go tear up their own ditches and yards and the one kid replied that his dad won't let him....now why on earth should we allow it for someone we don't even know. Now that sets a great example for my kids watching...sure looks like fun but you can't do any of it.....Just a complete stranger can. GIVE ME A BREAK!!

Not that it's any of your business but it's a fairly new development and we were the first owners of our land and probably the 4th one to move in out there and can assure you these kids were not out there from day 1 and have moved in within the last acouple of years. It's not the noise we mind because as I said before we have 2 four wheelers of our own, a tractor, and farmers with their tractor and equipment are 2 of our neighbors, so as you can see you can continue to scrap for excuses but that is simply not the case and their actions are completely UNCALLED FOR!!! "

Mom wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:24 PM:

" Chicken wire walls in the ditch? Now that is illegal. Not to mention dangerous for the ATV drivers. Can you imagine some kid coming along a ditch that was previously open and then hitting a wire? Could decapitate someone. You can't rope off or fence off a public access ditch. We tried to do that with an electric fence to have the horses graze a ditch for a short time and the county got all over us. They made it very clear that it is public access and it can not be blocked. I see ATV tracks all over the ditches on the main roads but it's really not part of people's yards and I don't see what the big deal about them is. Other comments on here keep talking about safety. This article isn't talking about safety, it's talking about ruts. Two different issues. I once rode a horse down a ditch and the horse left a couple of apples behind. A homeowner who happened to be outside in their trees yelled at me that I'd better come back and pick up the droppings. Are they serious? That's what I moved to the country for, to be able to ride the ditches. Move back to the city! "

JustMe wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:57 PM:

" I'm not attacking anyone here as I do not ride ATV for sport. The part you need to realize is that not one single trip down the ditch is going to tear it up, not two, not three. To call the cops out and blame a kid for riding down the ditch which is legal for them, you can not possibly hold them liable for all the damage that is done. You cannot blame a single person for the wear and tear of many years of use, which is why the sheriff's department cannot link the two together. Unless you can prove all the destruction is by the one single person, and have proof for al the riding, your complaints to the law hold no value.

Finally, if you live out of town, you cannot honestly tell me that you didn't expect the ditches to have recreational activity in them. It is legal for them to ride there, and they should not have to bend becuase a new owner moves in and all of a sudden they say it is disruptive. You would say the same thing to people who move next to a train track and complain about whistles, those who live by major roads and complain about road noise, those who live by the airport and complain about airplanes, the list goes on, and ditch complaints fall under this too. "

ATV Mom wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:11 PM:

" My last comment, please disregard the explanation of the "grow up" comments. I misinterrpreted what "just me" was saying and in rereading what my remark was made absolutely no sense. sorry!! The rest of it I meant. "

Been There wrote on Apr 15, 2008 11:18 AM:

" Destruction of property isn't legal, even in the right of way. Not having proper equipment isn't either; pipes with no baffles seem to be a favorite. The problem isn't atv's. The problem is that they are often not operated legally as far as use, equipment or rider violations. Those are rider responsibilities, not landowner's problems to 'get over'.

Yes, I ride. On my own property. "

ATV Mom wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:57 AM:

" To Just me....I didn't say that the Sheriff's dept said "grow up" if you reread what I put he said "why can't we just be grown up about the situation" BIG DIFFERENCE. All my husband said is "fair is fair" about tearing up peoples property. AGAIN in reading my comments you will see we TRIED to do something about it in calling the authorities but apparently we needed to go further....so we have!! To people that are more willing to listen to what I have said I was simply stating what we have tried that HASN'T worked and don't waste your time. Take it a step further and again WE HAVE!!! There is no reason that the property that you want to look nice, work hard for and much less PAY for should look like garbage because someone else is to disrespectful or can't take the warnings at face value. You state that it is "perfectly legal" to drive atv's.. noone has said on here that driving atv's in a ditch is illegal because they are a right a way.. what people are complaining about is people tearing up the right aways and properties surrounding it when they are not yours to be destroying it's called "destruction of property". If you are driving on them as they are intended to there should be 1 path and NOT ruts!! That is not the case and YES we have every right to complain. "

JustMe wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:11 AM:

" Like the sheriff's department says, Grow Up! If you are going to mzake such a big deal about it, fix it! Stop complaining, and do something about it! One person said that they landscaped the approach with rock, maybe you should try this! Go whip around in the neighbor yards, ya, that will solve a lot. Talk to these parents and set some rules and consequences. I don't even ride an atv in this part of the state, thank god because there are too many whiners yelling at something that is PERFECTLY LEGAL! No wonder our tourism sucks, and nobody wants to move back, they are scared of offending the locals who if they don't like something, will ocmplain until no end until that persons life is no longer effected by anyone elses. You should all go live in a bubble. (And now I will get the most over-used comment on the site, if you don't like it, move. Again, show how close minded you are, saying that will prove my point...) "

Sheriffs are a Joke! wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:05 AM:

" Good luck getting the Sheriff's Dept to do anything other than sit in ditches, waiting for speeders. An old neighbor of ours, Dan, is a sheriff -- and even he had made the comments before about how 'some' calls get mysteriously dropped or not logged. Some of the stories I heard would really make you want to rethink the entire dept's purpose.

Maybe if you called Burleigh County to complain?? Or the commissioners? Or--better yet--some simple chicken wire walls across the ditches--just temporary, and you can take them down when mowing? If I were a kid, it would sure bug me coming across that in a ditch while riding! "

ATV Mom wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:57 AM:

" To I'm Feeling, Thank you for the information and I will continue as we have done in the past and keep complaining. Even in calling the Sheriff we asked him what more we can do and he said there is nothing more and I knew that was false! Why should someone be able to come down and tear up our property and get away with it. My husband was short of taking our 4 wheeler down and tearing up these kids parents property and he told the Sheriff that too... and the Sheriff said "can't we be grown up about this?" and my husband told him then he needs to do HIS job and STOP IT otherwise it should be OKAY both ways!!! They both went down and even seen all of the ruts and mess these kids have created. These kids have killed off some of our smaller trees from running them over because their fun doesn't stay in the ditches. "

Checking wrote on Apr 14, 2008 10:31 PM:

" I spoke to my attorney today and asked him who is responsible if anyone gets hurt while riding across my property! Is it the rider, county, or homeowner? My attorney's response was, a good attorney will always find liability and fault with anyone that has an insurance policy. So all home owners check your insurance policy or go out and cover every rut on your property every time one appears or pay the piper. When these riders are done screaming after their painful injury - they will want to scream for compensation! "

I'M Feeling wrote on Apr 14, 2008 10:05 PM:

" TO ATV MOM: We feel your pain! We are experiencing the same problems also! Trust me when they(atv riders) have the ruts too deep, they will start a new trail about 3 feet over! Its to deep even for them to stay in. Now we are left to try and mow these ditches, trust me you will have to sharpen the blade every time you mow the dirt and ruts! If we don't stand UNITED on this issue, the problems will only get worse!!!! It seems the commisioners are turning a blind eye to this matter, Unless we continue to call,demand that this needs to stop!! They say they are getting on the aveage about 50 calls aday, i think this needs to be brought up to 200 calls a day(and to each and every one of them!!!!!! "

ATV mom wrote on Apr 14, 2008 12:00 PM:

" We live 5 miles north of town and have just run into this same problem. Matter of fact we have went as far as to call the sheriff to see what can be done about it. 2 or 3 little kids constantly in our development tearing around and we live on a corner lot of 2+ acres so what we own out to the center of the road that we must maintain, can now be completely ripped up and especially with rain or snow then it's a really fun time for these kids. My husband has stopped them on several occasions to tell them to use the paths as they are intended to and that's to get from here to there not whipping around and tearing up everything. Do they listen, heck NO!! 3 strikes and your out boys, the next step will be to get the sheriff involved along with the parents. We also have atv's that my children drive and respect more importantly other peoples properties. If there is any tearing around to be done it's in our own yard where the damage is ours to repair. It's just sad to see that some other peoples kids/adults don't have the same respect. "

kids first wrote on Apr 14, 2008 10:30 AM:

" I would hope the parent will be charged if something tragic would happen to an 8 or nine year old that gets smoked on the parents atv. It appears that a lot of parents have no control over the kids. I try not to get mad at kids. We need to recognize poor parenting and start to fine the real offenders. Parents who are not the brightest. "

Chilly Willy wrote on Apr 14, 2008 8:51 AM:

" to Safety: well put. Not unusual to see an 8 year old trying to control a too-big single-seater ATV with illegal equipment and a 5 year old on the back and neither wearing helmets, trying to jump a road crossing.

North Dakota needs to move into current times and organize this sport around safety first or it will become obsolete. From what I've seen, the parts of the country that have the best rider safety and responsibility progarams also have the best trail systems. Something to think about. "

Help ME OUT wrote on Apr 14, 2008 7:25 AM:

" I am wondering if any one gets injuried or killed,with the speed and jumping of these approaches,who will be held accountable when (a matter of time)a accident happens?Will the homeowers , the county, or the riders themself be held accountable?? I think we all know, these parents and atv riders will not stand up and shout I AM RESPONDIBLE, THIS IS THE RIGHT OF WAY,AND I AM LEGAL!!! "

Other States wrote on Apr 14, 2008 7:18 AM:

" Why doesn't North Dakota take a look at what some other states are doing to manage ATV usage? In South Dakota the ATV is licence and can drive on city streets and roads just like motorcycles. There are limits (i.e. no Interstate, certain safety features, etc.), but when people can drive them on city streets they have a tendency to drive safer and cause less damage.

There is also the rising price of gasoline. Many ATV riders would like the chance to save some money when driving across town and an ATV is usually more fuel efficient than a car.

Could laws be modified to require riders to have a motorcycle licence and ride on the road and not in the ditchs? Would that solve any problems and help public safety and the environment? "

expositor wrote on Apr 14, 2008 1:58 AM:

" To Safety: Right on. "

safety wrote on Apr 13, 2008 10:42 PM:

" Tonight i was able to see firsthand why some of us are upset about the ATV'ers. I was driving home from work on Centennial Road nor th of the KOA campground and there was what looked like a teenage boy riding an ATV in the ditch following the trail on the west side of the road. I drove alongside him for a short distance and took a quick peek at my speedometer. He was going between 40 and 45 mph in the ditch. I stayed with him the whole way up around the bend where the road turns into 71st Ave. The whole way he barely slowed down when coming to the intersecting roads and approaches. It appeared as if he was trying to jump them and get some "air". When he came to the spots where the trail comes within a few feet of the road, he barely dropped any speed and one time was riding there as an oncoming vehicle going southbound went by him. A perfect example of why a solution must be found to this issue. Someone is bound to get seriously injured. "

HONKEY DONKEY wrote on Apr 13, 2008 9:30 PM:

" TO JUST ME! Look at the ditches, do they look like we have alot of common sense riders! Why use the ditches? What ever happened to buying some property to rut up their own pastures,fields,ditches, and approaches!? The gaf(game and fish)would put a stop to this destruction immediately, and i don't think you could cry to them and say-it's my right-of-way and i'll call the men in blue! it's just common sense you don't drive on some one's property and call it LEGAL! NOW the other side is we have 3 atv's but ,we did buy lots of property to ride them on,so my point is ,put your money on the atv and buy your own property and then lets call it LEGAL! "

JustMe wrote on Apr 13, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Hey Honkey Donkey, I hope you have enough common sense to reread ALL my posts, look for the one where I have an ATV, please get back to me on that. I am defending those that are smart about it, not every single person. Ya there are places where you can ride "throttle twisted" and its ok, a ditch, no. But why go after those that are law abiding, driving safely, and LEGALLY riding in the ditch, after all it is ok for you to legally joy ride in the river, seems you are double standard here... "

Beesh wrote on Apr 13, 2008 4:30 PM:

" I've ridden horse in the Badlands of North Dakota and I am amazed at all the deep ruts all over Theodore Roosevelt Park. It is DISGUSTING. Why the ground is being ripped away at record amounts. Someone HAS to do something about it.

Those ruts are put there by the deer, buffalo and wild horsed. We need to get rid of them all before they make even one more rut!!!! "

People are Funny wrote on Apr 13, 2008 2:51 PM:

" To 'Sunday Driver' - One big misconception is that only 'the ditch' is public right of way. Everyone has public right of way running in front of their home, subdivisions included. They can verify that to their plat map. Seems some people like to send their kids or take their atv's 'down the road' so their own right of way doesn't get messed up. A little consideration of others could go a long way with this. "

Sunday Driver wrote on Apr 13, 2008 12:12 PM:

" i did take a drive around the rural area,and i can't believe the trails that are running along the roads! also noticed some nice developments on the way,beautiful trees beautiful homes,and nice driveways in front of the homes. What was very eye catching is that some driveways were all cemented also landscaped with rocks along the whole driveway and schrubs planted also to help beautified their driveway,but what was most eye catching was all the atvs parked in these same yards! Where are these atvs riding?I'm sure not in front of these home's ditches or across their approaches, so how can these parents let their kids and along with themselves ride and rut up every ditch in front of everyone eles's home and still want to keep it out of their own front yards. I think the homeowners that are having their ditches and approaches ripped up , needs to return the favor and start driving along these home's approaches and ditches and do alittle rutting(hope no one gets hurt when they hit the cement on the driveway)As for the kids doing drugs or drinking if they can't destroy someone's property*Parents Get A Life And Get A Clue* "

For anyone interested wrote on Apr 13, 2008 11:12 AM:

" The NDCC referring to off-highway vehicles:

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t39c29.pdf "

To ATV owner wrote on Apr 13, 2008 10:05 AM:

" Hooter gals would have more common sense, than most ATV drivers and they are a lot better looking!! "

Sunny Day wrote on Apr 13, 2008 9:15 AM:

" I don't see many comments suggesting that atv's be banned. Most of the comments seem to be about property being damaged with how and where they are sometimes used. "

Bob wrote on Apr 13, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Some have said that "we moved out in the country so we could do stuff like this!" True, but a lot more of us moved out here years ago for the peace and quiet! Too many of these ATVers modify their machines to make as much noise as possible. Then drive back and forth in front of your house all day, jumping the approaches and scattering gravel making huge erosion prone ruts! My hearing aids power out at 80 decibels and many times I've had them power out and go sssssttt while standing on my deck! If I took off the mufflers on my ATV and tried to do that in Bismarck or Lincoln I'd end up fined and probably in jail! Why do they feel they can do the same thing out here?
ATV's are know in emergency rooms as "another trauma victim" but as long as the owner operator assumeds all responsibility including health care and long term nursing home care if/when it becomes necessary, and agrees to NOT sue me if they pile up on my property that they are tearing up, then that's their decision! "

ATV owner wrote on Apr 13, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Just be thankful Hooters girls aren't riding those darn things ~ how even more terrible for one city to have to put up with ::shudder:: !! "

Does it even matter wrote on Apr 12, 2008 11:41 PM:

" Its official they have now actually found everything that they can think off to try to take fun away from people. I mean why even sell the darn things. Most of them are probably to fast or have to much power and someone is gonna get hurt on them and then to TOP IT OFF can you BELIEVE those thing tear up the grass when people ride them through ditches that aren't even in peoples yards and oh my god that streak of two tracks of dirt I see while I'm driving down the highway is about enough to make me want to drive off of it and then since they are so dangerous I'll probably end up in a rut crash my car and die. Give me a freak break get a life and find something better to do with your time. Go feed a homeless person or adopt a kid love them and treat them like your own or something. I don't know what you need to do but give me a break this is pathetic. "

Outta Here wrote on Apr 12, 2008 11:17 PM:

" This is why young people leave the state to much nagging. There is not a whole lot to do around here and when you do find something it turns into crap like this!! I'd rather see some worn ditches then a bunch of young people out drinking or doing drugs. "

grass protector wrote on Apr 12, 2008 7:04 PM:

" To Ace. I think we got plenty to do besides sitting on a couch. We are the ones that are out there trying to maintain grass and yards! Now you should not have to wonder why we are complaining about this unjustifiable recreation they ,and you call fun! Maybe you are the one sitting on the couch all day, because this destruction would get any hard working yard person upset, to see their hard fruits of labor destroyed. Now for being legal: I do not think this terrible destruction is legal or ever was it intended to be legal when the atvrs called it their RIGHT OF WAY! So now who is the complainers?

"

Live by 1804 wrote on Apr 12, 2008 5:42 PM:

" I live in Northridge estates and we have children, driving around in golf carts and go carts after dark. No lights etc., no license etc. Just waiting for an accident to happen. "

Ace wrote on Apr 12, 2008 5:32 PM:

" I don't own an ATV but I got no problem with people driving them wherever it is legal. They are just trying to have some fun. Maybe you complainers need to get up off the couch and find something to do with your time. "

FARMER wrote on Apr 12, 2008 4:42 PM:

" TO KIDS AND ATVRS: I am a farmer and you are wrong to think that these ruts do not cause a problem and they will be a problem for many years to come! Have you ever had to drive across an appproach with deep ruts to enter a field? I didn't think so(well try driving across them with a loaded truck and see what happens) I don't think you could handle too many farmer's opinions! So your ditch recreation is even a bother to us. I liked your comment about not always having the time to take the kids out to someone's property, MAYBE you should have thought about this problem before you bought these problems! So STOP making it everyone else's PROBLEM!!! "

HORRIFIED wrote on Apr 12, 2008 2:34 PM:

" TO 1804: I agree with you whole hearty, but what happens when half of the atv drivers that are doing this destruction ,is the adults themselves?? One day my friend(70yrs old)after about 15 minutes of watching him spinning mud and driving back and forth, she asked him not to drive in the ditch when it was so wet(the ruts were all mud) he took off at a high speed, and spun mud all over her hair and clothes! How would some body deal with a situation like this? This was an adult person that assaulted a 70yr old person,for being polite and asking him not to destroy her property,while it was wet conditions. Now i am aware, how ugly this situation is becoming! Now atv riders believe this is their RIGHT of WAY to destroy property and assault people! People,how and when will this all end? How long will our county officials, state officials, and anyone with any law changing authority,keep turning a blind eye to this terrible injustice ? This was a terrible act of violence!!! Please Help with any suggestions, on what to do and how to stop this horrible injustice that is happening to the property owners!! Be Watching For Your Blogs!!!! "

toll booth wrote on Apr 12, 2008 10:24 AM:

" I think we need to put up toll booths at every appoach,so money can be collected to help repair these ditches and ripped up pavements. This may sound stupid,but someone needs to repair the damage that is being done. This thought is not any more stupid than the thought that ,it is these thoughtless atvr's right to destroy property (owners property)! We all need to give attenion to this problem, and help stop this injustice!!!!!The last time i looked, these right -of -ways were put in place to help do inprovements to property owners and the community!Lets all take a sunday drive around the rural bismarck area, and decide if this is what -right of ways-where intended for, and then ask yourselves if any of you would want this injustice done on your property! LET'S ALL GET INVOLVED and call the commisioners,gov.(hoven's office) DOT and anyone eles that you may think of , that can STOP this INJUSTICE!!!!!! and make these atvr's accountable for their actions and destruction! It will be only a matter of time,before they think it is their right to destroy your property
"

1804 wrote on Apr 12, 2008 10:23 AM:

" We live right on 1804 and I must say...Everything costs money to maintain one way or another. I rode ATV's when I was a kid, we boated then and we do now, we had the respect speech from our parents back then and continute to give it today with our kids. I come across the ATV's everyday on 1804 as I am in town twice, sometimes more with our kids and have never been upset with how they are riding and challenging me. Never gave it a thought as to how THEY are driving because I was not looking for problems. I think it's our responsibility as parents to do the BEST WE CAN to teach our kids to RESPECT and ABIDE by all the laws and regulations set forth. We do our part well enough...and we may just enjoy seeing the recreation around us in appreciation and not frustration. "

honkey donky wrote on Apr 12, 2008 9:10 AM:

" TO JUST CURIOUS: I hope JUST ME had common sense to relize my last post was refering to him! But you never know(he destroys property and thinks people are CLAP*CLAP*CLAPING*****for his stupid actions) "

honky donky wrote on Apr 12, 2008 7:35 AM:

" TO JUST CURIOUS: We own a boat and do some fishing, and yes we do abide by
gaf(game and fish)laws! But also they encourge common sense,respect people, respect property,and don't damage any thing the doesn't belong to you! They don't have any laws in place for people to run up and down the lake with just a motor and prop and NO BOAT! Laws are only put in place because people don't have common sense, not to destroy other people's property! So when sense less people help to change this law, they can call the BOYS in BLUE and tell them you feel violated because you can't destroy any more people's property! The next time you sense less people are out tearing up grass, and ruting up ditches,i hope you know you are helping to change the law! Also donkeys are approved by the DOT in all lower 48 no helmet required. FREE FERTILIZER to help fix what you have damaged "

Clear Skies wrote on Apr 12, 2008 6:52 AM:

" Everyone's seen advertisements for atv's on television and in magazines. They ALWAYS show someone with the throttle cranked, fishtailing and throwing up a shower of dirt and rocks. That's fine and it's part of the fun in the right place. That's a horrible and destructive way to ride on public right of way and in residential areas. Unfortunately, a lot of people ride that way in the wrong places. I've seen plenty of people crank the throttle and look back to see what they've kicked up, often on approaches where the tires really bite in. I've never seen anyone stop and repair a damaged area.

ATV's are fine and fun but abusing the privelage and disregard for others has a predictable outcome. I think we're seeing it. Please ride right and preserve the sport! Build good relationships and we'll see more riding areas. "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:50 PM:

" That's why I want your permission.

You think it's perfectly okey dokey to ride in other peoples yards, why not yours?

Or if you like, I suppose I could just borrow an atv from a friend and zip around your place. "

mandan wrote on Apr 11, 2008 6:35 PM:

" everyone thinks that this is a rural problem but I can assure you it is not. We live out old red trail and are within city limits. We are responsible to keep up the boulevards by our homes but yet there are idiots out running their ATV's through the boulevard and rutting it up by our home instead of their own and racing up and down the streets with them. Unfortunately the cops are not out this far enough in the evening or weekend to catch them and they know it. Racing around with there kids and not really caring who they bother so I completely understand the aggravation and we have ATV's we use on our own family property not others. "

Live by 1804 wrote on Apr 11, 2008 5:23 PM:

" To Just me. I do not play golf in the ditch or do I hit the boat throttle in shallow water. If I leave a divit on the golf course I repair it immediately. I take care of my equipment so as not to damage it due to carelessness as you suggest. I was not born yesterday and I respect the property of others. Let me know where you live and I will drive on the boulevard in front of your yard, which is the same as the ditch in front of mine!! "

JustMe wrote on Apr 11, 2008 2:43 PM:

" Living by 1804 must not own either, as golf clubs leave divits in the grass, and boats leave "prop wash." If you ever notice when you pull out of a shallow area and hit the throttle, it disturbs the vegetation and environment on the bottom of the lake. Good thing it is legal to ride in the ditch, as it takes MANY more passes on a ATV to make damage to a ditch then it does for one boater to mess up the bottom of a shallow spot.

And yes, Just Curious, if you are willing to drive on my lawn, I'll be sure to have the boys in blue ready for your tresspassing violation, your destruction of property, reckless endangerment and exhibition driving tickets ready. As you see, if I went out and bought an ATV I can ride it legally in your ditch, I would love for you to explain to the law your reasoning for driving in a front yard, give me a time so I can arrange for both parties to be there! "

Living by 1804 wrote on Apr 11, 2008 1:51 PM:

" To Daryl. But golf clubs and boats do not leave ruts in ditches!!! "

Daryl wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:47 AM:

" Yo Can't Believe I sure hope you don't golf or own a boat or anything like that because I sure wouldn't buy golf clubs if I didn't own a golf course or I would buy a boat unless I owned a lake and had a boat ramp installed. I wouldn't buy a shotgun or rifle unless I owned land. The fact is that almost all recreation is subsidized by tax dollars of some sort. The ATV's and dirt bikes do pay registration and most of all they buy gas and pay a gas tax that is used for highways that they don't drive on. They should put those tax dollars into a trail fund and then we wouldn't be riding in the ditches we would be riding on our own trail system. "

Just Hoping wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:42 AM:

" we have watched some of these atv riders jumping approaches ,spinning wheels and throwing up mud! I always wonder where the parents are to STOP this destruction, only to find out the parent is the rider following or in the leed . It is only a matter of time before someone gets hurt or killed. I'm just hoping that this gets put to a end before it happens! Maybe (simle mom 2)would only wish her kids would be alive to shovel thoses McNuggets, *clap*clap*clap* There is no excuse for the destruction that is being done! STOP-LOOK-LISTEN "

Deb wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Leave it to BEESH to get all analytical in his post....c'mon man, lighten up! Think of Hooters coming in the near future! "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 11, 2008 8:21 AM:

" Awww, C'mon JustMe

I need a place in someone's front yard to run my Ford.

Hey, I don't even run straight pipes, so you and your Mrs. should be able to sleep as I joy ride around your yard.

Wish I could say the same about my 6 month and 2 yr olds when the JA's on ATVs and motorbikes are tearing around in front of my house. "

Can't Believe wrote on Apr 11, 2008 7:23 AM:

" To the people that wonder if these atvs are a high risk, jump on your atv and go ask the emergency doctor!! The last time i looked there was lots of land 4sale to drive your atv on( you should have thought about where you plan to ride them before purchasing the play toy) These property owners worked hard to maintain the grass, now it is only a eye sore!!! The pavement on these approaches are starting to get tore up, I'm sure it is only a matter of time before this destruction gets STOPPED "

People are Funny wrote on Apr 11, 2008 6:26 AM:

" In the rural neighborhood I live in there's a guy who will run out and yell and gyrate like he's having a seizure if an atv or dirt bike even gets close to his property. On weekends when his friends from town come to visit with their kids and their atv's, he sends them down to the corner to ride on other people's right of way. People need to remember that everyone has right of way in front of their house; ditch, flat or otherwise. 'Do unto others as ....'.

to Job: I've seen and enjoyed some of the trails you mention in Mn., Wisconsin and elsewhere. Those are nicely defined and largely well-controlled trail systems. Beautiful country. It would be great to have trail systems like they do in other states. As well as the rider programs. I notice the laws in those states about who, how and where you can ride are strictly enforced, too. It's a well organized sport in those areas; not so much a free-for-all. Lot's of fun! "

Job wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:39 PM:

" If you take a trip through Minn. and Wis. you would see that this is the way that they let people have fun on there toys, they put up all road signs that the users must follow or they will be ticketed. It is really nice and injoyable, they stay on the trail that are provided. This works in winter and summer. So mybe all you riders should head out that way and spead you money in a State that wants you there,and don't foget that there are more bar stops out in those beautful woods
then you will find anyware. SO GET OUT AND HAVE FUN,,,,peace out,,, "

???? wrote on Apr 10, 2008 4:50 PM:

" WHo cares if they ride in the ditch pretty soon you will be gripping about horses being rode in the ditch who cares get over it "

Live by 1804 wrote on Apr 10, 2008 4:24 PM:

" To all you off road vehicle drivers. If you don't have a place to ride it don't buy it. "

k8 wrote on Apr 10, 2008 2:16 PM:

" It's a ditch people...not part of your yard. It is available for public access. So it has some ATV paths, big deal. I think part of the problem is that people move from town to the rural areas, but then decide they want everything to look like their yard in town did. The ditch is not the same as the boulevard people! "

brad wrote on Apr 10, 2008 2:00 PM:

" SOOOOOOO what....get off the roadway...you are wearing it out and the Republicans haven't spent a dime in this state or under this President on our intrastructure for the past 7+ years. ruts in the ditch, holes in the road, the bridge falls down and spilled milk is by the kitty dish. "

seven gone wrote on Apr 10, 2008 12:11 PM:

" to those who believe more accidents are caused by cars than by atv's you're in fact correct. but only because there are proportionately far far more cars and trucks out there than suv's.

not that cars are driven correctly, or responsibly, because they often aren't. but they're also regulated - though whether regulations are enforced is of course quite another thing entirely. but there are essentially no regulations on atv's, which is part of the reason why people irresponsibly destroy lands trails parks wildlife and fences -- and no age limit, and i can personally vouch as an m.d. for hellacious injuries i've seen to include a near decapitation on a barbed wire fence of a ten year old supposedly supervised by a responsible adult. and adults, well, responsibility is quite often another thing entirely (and the law won't usually touch the jumpers, the speeders, the drinkers, etc) as long as they stay on their own property. but they sure like to cry about their injuries when they get them. "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Whoops, Sorry I pulled a Just Me.

The opener on my last comment is for BC, not Just Me.

"

JustMe wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:50 AM:

" I never once said that it was or wasn't private property, is that proving you wrong enough? "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:36 AM:

" To Starr,

I have never said that the easements don't currently provide the state with the right of travel. My only beef with Just Me was his/her saying it wasn't private property. It is private property with an easement for the construction of a roadway and right of travel.

However, when 99% of these easements were put into place oh so many years ago, it was illegal to drive anywhere off the shoulder of the road. The state renegged on the original intent of the easements by changing the law and giving people the right to joyride in our yards and create damage that we are often responsible for repairing.

Just Me, Seriously, put your name, address, and permission to drive my vehicles in your front yard. I can prove you wrong. Can you prove me wrong? "

Land Guy wrote on Apr 10, 2008 6:33 AM:

" The ultimate question is going to get down to whether or not the granting of right of way on private land, a concept going back to early times when there wasn't a good system of roads, was intended to or could have foreseen a day when people wanted to use that right of way to zip back and forth for purely recreational purposes. Everyone understands the cable tv, REC and county road crews using the right of way to maintain utllities and the established roadway. Racing hot-rodded vehicles and using approaches as launch ramps is another matter. Not sure where this will all end up. How about a real effort to promote safe and responsible riding and to get better off-road areas? I never did think driving around in the ditch was all that exciting. "

agree with the writer wrote on Apr 10, 2008 5:13 AM:

" I agree, the trails in the ditches look like crap. "

JustMe wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:52 PM:

" I just now noticed that you only made the ignorant comment of you driving your SUV on my front lawn, which I still do not believe if you in fact do own one it has ever gone off-road, might be scared to drive off a driveway. It was your friend "my goodness" who is playing with butterflies in right field (if you henstly even believe that snowmobile leaves a footprint in the ditches during the winter, I'm pretty sure you haven't gone back to look in the spring the effect it had).

A agree, if you want to say that ATV's cause so many accidents, tell me how many people die in car accidents a year. Can you honestly say you see more injuries from ATV's than you do cars? "

Irritated wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:41 PM:

" I moved out to an area a few miles out of Bismarck a couple years ago, we bought some land and have horses. I did not have a problem with ATV's, motorcycles, and the like at the time. In fact, my family owns several of them to use on our ranch. However, as time has gone by, I now see why the homeowner we bought our house from did not allow anyone to ride these vehicles in the ditches around the house. We have been lenient and nice to the kids and allowed them to ride. Now, our ditches, along with our approach are an absolute disaster. It wasn't bad at first, but as they continuously rode over the same tracks, the grass is NOT going to grow back - there are permanent tracks and deep ones at that. The gravel from my approach is in my ditch. Now, we are told that this is a public right of way....are these kids' families going to come and mow my ditch for me and ruin the blades on their mowers going over all this gravel and mounds of dirt that have been built up???? I bet not. Most of the kids are even good about going slow over the approach as we've asked them to slow down. But there are still some that could care less and their parents could care less as well (seeing as how they don't control their children - but that argument is for another day). Something does have to be done as it decreases the value of the property - maybe not by appraisal, but by first sight of a buyer. "

Safety wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:04 PM:

" In addition to the ruts along 1804 west of Hwy. 83, take a look sometime at Centennial Road north of the KOA all the way to where it curves to 71st Ave. and over to Hwy. 83. There is at least one spot where the ruts are within a few feet of the road. The ruts here are very deep and even though I don't like this unsightly mess, i guess I can live with it. For me, it is a safety issue as this is not the only place where ATV'ers are riding that close to the road. I'm sure not everyone who owns one rides there, but anyone that doesn't think this issue needs to be addressed in some way will hopefully think differently when a serious accident occurs. It is only a matter of time until that happens. "

Traveler wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:59 PM:

" I like atv's and dirt bikes; grew up riding them. But I think there's a good time and place for everything. I'm not sure the right of way along the often busy and narrow roads is the best, or even a safe, place to race around on gas-powered toys, even if you have the legal right to do so. I am very careful about where I let my kids ride. "

Ignorance wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:56 PM:

" I cannot believe how ignorant and uneducated people are. You need to look at facts and know the laws before giving fictitious lies. Mother nature reclaims unused land at an unbelievably fast rate, so the rutted and eroded land being ruined is a false statement.

To those who say too many people are killed on ATV's, last I checked, way more people die in automobiles than ATV's. Maybe we should ban automobiles. But I guess that would never happen because it would affect the ignorant and uneducated people. "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:19 PM:

" Apparently we don't need to go any further than looking at your reading comprehension skills.

Unless you care to show me where on this thread I wrote that "snowmobilers and atv riders are not as smart as....". "

Selzler wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:04 PM:

" BC: I think you need to see NDCC 47-01-16: An owner of land bounded by a road or street is presumed to own to the center of the way (unless the contrary is shown) "

starr wrote on Apr 9, 2008 5:36 PM:

" to Just Curious

as a certified land abstractor in ND & MN, your easement dose give you ownership, but when said easement is put in place you or the prior owner where compensated for said easement. When the county, city or state places an easement on your property (electrical, derange, or mechanical…etc.) you are no longer able to make changes in any way to or over said easement. If you place or cause physical harm to the land over the easement or people that use said easement as public right of way you are liable for and damages or injuries that may accrue on said easement.
"

Just Curious wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:56 PM:

" Tom,

I too suggest you take another look. Specifically, try looking by the ditches near Waste Management.

Then look and see if you can find the buried culvert on the north side of 1804 where N. Washington Street crosses. That culvert was buried primarily by the erosion of the tracks going to the west. "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:53 PM:

" BC, a public right of way does NOT change the ownership.

It's called an easement. Look it up, I'm sure Websters Dictionary would be happy to explain what one of them is to you! "

Redneck wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:46 PM:

" To JustMe: Source of information. Your first sentence. FOR "

JustMe wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:23 PM:

" To Just Curious: please give me the source fro your information that snowmobilers and atv riders are not as smart as you, I would love to see it.

I also don't support your plan to ammend a law to allow you to drive through my front yard, I see a big problem. Since you wanna make things two sided, "my kind" beleive that none of "your kind" ever take your SUV's or big trucks off road, sand on the roads during the winter does not count, and that you are only compensating for something else... "

BC wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:52 PM:

" To just curious...

I suggest you get the plat updated then...

It is called a "public right of way"...otherwise I would REALLY like to get your addy...then I can drive down your road...suffer some sort of problem and name YOU as the party at fault in the lawsuit... "

Live by 1804 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:25 PM:

" To Tom. You better get your eyes checked. I see ruts in the ditch!! "

Tom wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:35 PM:

" IF you really drive around the state and take a look at ditches that are also used for motorcycles and ATV's you will notice that no real damage is done. It actually keeps the grass short in some places and helps to spot deer coming out of the ditch. After a good summer most of the trails are pretty well repaired.. Take a look at 1804 north of Bismarck from 83 to the river... those ditches have been rode for years and years by ATVs and snowmobiles, motorcycles and horses. They look just fine... Find something else to complain about. "

Just Curious wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:15 PM:

" To BC, to clarify on ditch ownership.

The plat map showing my property boundaries, setback, and easements clearly show I own to the centerline of the county road in front of my house.

And no, I don't need to show you the "proof" this is information that is commonly available if you look at any plat map for any county. "

just Curious wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:13 PM:

" Ahh so many rabid positions on both sides.

Let there be no mistaking it, Highway 1804 from it's junction with Highway 83 by the Burnt Creek Club heading west to about even with Hawktree Golf Course has already had ruts filled at least once in the past couple years. I am quite sure that this year will see significant rutting and erosion again, if we ever get any rain.

What did it cost the taxpayers? Not sure, but I bet it wasn't cheap. Maybe $30k. There are also private roads and approaches on this stretch. The damage to them is their responsibility to fix and maintain. Just doesn't seem right that the state would give someone permission to damage another's property.

Maybe the law should be amended to allow us who drive SUV's and pickups the right to drive through the front yard of ATV owners to make things a little more equal.

Not sure when the philosophy of it being the state's responsibility to provide access to private land for joy riding. Really not sure how long it will last either.

BTW, ownership of the ditch is dependent upon the particular road. The U.S. govt owns the ditches along the interstates, hence no access to ride in them with ATVs. County road ditches are almost always owned by the adjacent landowners, state roadways I think are a mix of the two. "

BC wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:22 AM:

" To my goodness...

I could not believe I just read your comment.... I would LOVE to see your "proof" to back up your allegation!

The ditches are NOT private property. They are PUBLIC right of ways and the state code in both MN and ND state that it is legal to ride in the ditch from the centerline to the top of the outside upslope or edge of the right of way. Please reference the links below...
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/ohv/ohv_regs.pdf
http://www.ndparks.com/recreation/ohv/index.html#riding

As for the people who choose not to wear the proper PPE, i.e. helmets, boots etc... As crass as it may sound...Darwins law will take care of them. "

Redneck wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:37 AM:

" How else are we going to get our Twinkies back to our trailer houses? "

pa to Kids an ATV'r wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:31 AM:

" I have had kids play chicken with me... of course you know all....also I do not hunt. so therefore I won't ask to hunt on your land, so don't worry. I was driving home from work last night and a very young driver was on a main road with lots of trafffic, ahead and behind him. NOW I SUPPOSE YOU THINK THIS IS OKAY. "

my goodness wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:02 AM:

" It has been proven that people who ride 4 wheelers and snowmobiles are less educated than those that do not. They have no argument that makes any sense. Your property, go ahead and make it noisy and rip it up. Private property, Stay out! Ditches, County commisioners need to step up and get the ditch mosquitoes out of here! "

OMG! wrote on Apr 9, 2008 7:55 AM:

" Who cares....... "

Eagle Eye wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:38 AM:

" What part of the NDCC or local law allows recreational motor sports by the general public on right of way along county, township and subdivision roads and highways? I'm curious as I've never seen it referenced. "

seven gone wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:57 AM:

" environmental disaster is right on the point!!! ask just anyone in health care (other than an administrator) and they can tell you of deaths and crippling injuries that are not only caused by these things, but by extension the stupid people who let their kids drive them and suffer a horrendous injury.

these things should've been banned a long long time ago. a few damaged trails are bad, but pale in comparison to the human destruction and suffering created by these things. "

John wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:29 PM:

" I would also like to complain about all the unsightly cow trails that are left behind when cows walk in the same spot for years, I was alarmed by this on my way home on river road tonight. These trails will erode and make the pasture untravelable in a tractor come spring if we ever get rain so the grass will grow.

Give me a break, is this all you have to worry about.
Thats the legal place to ride, has been for years, get over it "

???? wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:46 PM:

" So people are wondering where they can ride their atv's huh? Last time I checked there was land for sale all over the state. Why do I have to buy land to accomodate every one elses recreation? And if your saying to yourself that the ditches belong to the county, if thats the case why are the taxes that I pay are including the ditch? "

Nick wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:00 PM:

" As usual, a lot of people here are completely missing the point of the letter. Which is that atv's are tearing up our ditches and someone is going to have to pay for it.

Part of the problem is that people violate the law by driving on the ditch slopes. Part of it is people just plain being destructive like the people who goose their atv's to make the grass and dirt fly; especially if they think they have an audience. Part of it is the fragility of the ditches especially in wet times like spring. And we could use some more riding trails around here, too.

A little care will go along way and not ruin it for others who are careful. Golden Rule, etc. "

Beesh wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:22 PM:

" To Simle mom,

Compared by ratio, a horse hoof will dig about 1inch into the trail as compared to a tire at the very most will cutting in about 1/4 inch. Multiply that cutting hoof over a summer and the horse path will get cut down about 5 inches. Just go on a trail ride in Medora once. The trails they lay in the spring will be a good 5 inches deep by the end of the season.

"

Landowner wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:28 PM:

" Atvs were originally made for work purposes only, for ranchers/farmers. Now they are being used to race and jump over ditches and such. My uncle was crushed by an ATV @ Kimball bottoms about 11 yrs ago. So I know that many people misuse the machines the way that they were intended to be used. I live south of the burnt boat ramp, ever since the river has gone down, people have been able to get across the river to the islands. These islands were untouched to any motorized vehicles until 4 yrs ago. Now there are trails all over, garbage laying around and overall destruction of a perfect environment for animals to thrive in. Now its become another Kimball Bottoms because of ATV/motorcyle riders. Thanks for duing nothing but destroy natural habitat adn make a mess "

Simle Mom2 wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:42 PM:

" :::clap clap clap:::: Starr~~right on the money! yes, let's make our kids sit inside hooked up to video games and shoving McNuggets in their mouths. Far be it for us to have them out enjoying nature on a destructive ATV!

(and the comment on the horse hoofprints causing deeper ruts than anything else?? How big of a horse WAS that, anywho?! Our horses don't leave potentially deadly ruts, I bet that horse was being fed McNuggets & playing video games too....hmmmm.....) "

Starr wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:24 PM:

" Ignorant you people are just plan ignorant….Oh hay lets ban all ATV’s and dirt bikes. So when I our kids are playing video games and meeting those nice men & women online that they will be safe. I got an idea lets ban high school sports so our kids can’t get hurt. Then when more of our kids are missed up from all the video games, TV and internet we can blame you. I don’t know maybe you like buying those HUSKEYS for your kids. But getting our kids out of the house and into sports and activities that is whats important here.

I have friends that spend thousands of dollars a year to take there family out of ND to MN, South Dakota, Idaho for a week of ATV riding with their family. Now won’t it be nice to have some of that money stay in ND. Just think ATVing in the Badlands now that has a good ring to it. On average people traveling with their ATV’s will spend $100 dollars per day, from fuel, food and logging. Just to go out for the weekend and have a family activity that everyone can join in on.
"

Kids an ATV'r to pa wrote on Apr 8, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Only thing I forgot - we have wonderful friends that have plenty of land to ride on and we also have farmland to go to. I have seen many ATV's when I am driving and have yet had one to play chicken with me. Helmets are must in our household - don't know about everyone else and its not my business. Also don't ask to hunt on our land either - things go both ways!!! "

Trial Guy wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:39 PM:

" The problem isn't the atv's and dirt bikes. The problem is how a lot of people ride them. Encourage responsible riding and do it yourself and you'll see the trails open up. Been there, seen it. "

pa wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:10 PM:

" to Kids an ATV'r : I hopr you ask the land owner...since some of these people come in yards and not just in ditches... also playing chicken with cars... not all have helmets and some are pretty young. Stay off my land, I don't have one and I don't want you on my land... "

JustMe wrote on Apr 8, 2008 1:56 PM:

" E. Disaster, you are joking right?

You better be riding bike everywhere you go, or better yet walking, as bikes also leave a foot print. Anything you use that has a combustible engine falls under your strict rules of what is considered, so no more cutting your lawn, driving to work, etc, as these are also just toys.

ATV's have a specific use and purpose behind them, it is the opperator that is using them who is at fault for everything you see, both good or bad.

Please post your phone number for all us who use ATV's for work so when you get them "banned" in ND we have you to do our work. "

Beesh wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:43 AM:

" The ATV trails will become tractor swallowing caverns in probably a THOUSAND YEARS! I rode back and forth from our farm to my buddys farm for nearly in the same ditch 10 years with my dirt bike, kicking up dirt all the way, and the deepest the rut ever got was probably 4 inches. And it rain buckets back then. So unless those ditches are running at a 45 degree slope you won't lose a mower.

Oh by the way, the deepest ruts I have ever come across were the ones made by eco-friendly transportation...horses. "

Kids an ATV'r wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:41 AM:

" My 14 yr. old son has been riding since he has been 11. We have taught him to respect the right to be able to ride, be courteous and be careful. We have his machines licensed and insured. We have not taken him down to Kimball bottoms as we feel he is too young and there are too many machines. Why don't they make some trails so that there are other places to ride than just the ditches?? We do take him out to peoples rural land, but ultimately we don't have the time to do this as often as he wants to ride. So yes, he is a ditch rider and he is perfectly legal ( he has his ATV operator permit also) - I highly doubt the ruts or grooves they are creating are going to cause a tractor to roll - ask any farmer that's actually done the work. Let these kids have some fun - it's coming to the point no one wants them to be able to do anything!! "

John wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:40 AM:

" E. Disaster.
You need to get a life 4 wheelers are good for a few things I am 65 years old I used to use horses for chasing cattle now days it is easier getting on and go with the 4 wheeler it's not the atvs fault people die on them it is the person handling the atv that is in fault. "

REX wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:26 AM:

" Pretty soon it'll look just like Northern Minnesota. "

Environmental Disaster! wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:08 AM:

" All ATV's should be permanently banned in North Dakota. Their only purpose is to damage the environment and cause bodily harm and/or death. The statistics for human injury and/or death speaks for itself. They are just toys and the children/adults who ride them lack any common sense and could care less about someone's personal property. Once they are banned, in time, they will no longer be missed by those that think they have a right to drive them. "

BC wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:31 AM:

" The license fee for ATV's that is collected by the state does not provide for areas to ride. If people have complaints about what happens in the ditches (legal riding area by the way), they need to talk to the state and have them take the ATV money collected and open some areas to ORVs.

I travel from the eastern part of the state to ride in the Kimball bottoms. I have NEVER seen an ORV user leaving garbage laying around. However I have on NUMEROUS occasions seen boats land, leave bottles, garbage (even clothes) on the beach. EVERY time I have been at the bottoms, I bring home at LEAST two garbage bags home full of other people trash. The other large issue that comes to light is the fact that the Kimball bottoms are indeed an ORV area...not a public beach and it plainly states at the entrance that no glass bottles are allowed and that it is an ORV area. There are any number of areas along the river people can go and enjoy the river without complaining about ORV usage, then they can leave all their garbage at those areas.

Also, I would hope that a operator of a ditch mowing tractor has better sense then to just let his vehicle roll. I have mowed ditches for decades and the biggest danger/obstacle is the culverts...not ruts that are fully visable to someone with even the worst vision. "

Brady wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:25 AM:

" I can't say this is fact, but am pretty sure....if an ATV owner wants the machine to be insured, it must be licensed. Now I am only assuming, but I would bet that most ATV owners insure their machines. If only because they are financing the ATV. Given all this, I would guess that most ATV owners have paid into the DOT. "

NDr wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:19 AM:

" To Facts: Most everyone I know has their atv's registered. If not, you can't go anywhere off your property and with many being used for ice fishing or hunting, the G&F and other law enforcement officials will almost automatically give you a ticket if they're not. Also, I alway hear people complaining about atv's in the ditches. Unfortunately, atv drivers have tried to be allowed to drive elsewhere, but the law doesn't allow that. It only allows you to drive on the bottom of the ditch. This is typically the softest area of the ditch. Also, this is road right of way. People who live next to these ditches don't like it, but that is the way it is. It's road right of way and the law says that's where you have to drive. A friend of mine got a ticket two years ago for riding on the side of the ditch. He did that because the bottom was wet and muddy. The HP was a jerk and made him ride down on the muddy bottom the rest of the way home. I'm sure the adjacent landowners really appreciated that. Neither he nor them wanted him in the mud. But the HP didn't care. As he told him: "the law's the law". "

To facts wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:04 AM:

" What percentage of, off road vehicles are registered? Not many I bet. Inforcement of these vehicles registration should be mandatory at time of sale. "

JustMe wrote on Apr 8, 2008 9:04 AM:

" To inconsidrate(forgot the "e"): I do not own an ATV or a dirt bike, but for all the destruction that is caused by them down there, there is twice as much damage done by people who come down there in vehicles. You can not walk barefoot in the sand, on shore or in the water. I quit going down there after I cut my foot open on a broken glass bottle. You can't put all the blame on ATV/dirtbike riders for the mess down at Kimball Bottoms. I agree that the landscape has changed down there from their use, but this is also one of the last places for them to ride, and whether you like it or not it is their hobby and they have been choked out of everywhere else. I agree the ditches are not the place for them, but if you want to take them off of there too, where can a group go ride safely?(tracks only accomidate a few riders...) "

Facts wrote on Apr 8, 2008 8:13 AM:

" 50% of all Off Highway Vehicles registration fees goes to the North Dakota Department of Transportation, so they are paying their share. There are very few places for OHVs to drive in the state, the Roughrider trail south of Mandan is the closest. "

ATVR wrote on Apr 8, 2008 8:13 AM:

" INCONSIDERATE, Ive seen way more garbage and trash in your precious mall parking lots than I have ever seen at kimball bottoms. The only trash there is from a small number of lazy campers that don't care. ATVr's and motorcyclists know that people like you want them gone. Thats why they don't throw their trash around. If you really believe that a motorcyclists can chase a deer and run him down than you are very missinformed. Why can't we all just get along? "

inconsidrate wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:45 AM:

" Atv/dirt bike riders don't have common sense and this is just another example of this. Just look at Kimball Bottoms. They have ruined that area. They are also trying to ruin Christmas tree island. They are inconsiderate, they throw there trash around, destroy natural habitat in order to break new trails. I've personally seen Motorcycle riders try to chase down deer to try and run them down. Keep these vehicles on closed course or on private property. "

Traveler wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:55 AM:

" This is a big problem and getting bigger. It won't be long before the cost of repair of washed out ditches and damaged approaches is huge. It's gone too far.

Most of the problems I see are caused by riders who aren't obeying the law and who are inconsiderate of the property of others. Since when did destruction equal fun? Parents seem to turn a blind eye to what their kids are doing down the road, as long as it isn't in front of their own house. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where law enforcement and the county are needing to step in. That shouldn't be necessary.

And how about some more good rider education on the part of the dealers and clubs? Everyone calls out for more riding area (which I strongly support) as if it was a right. When I lived in the western states, they had learned that access and trails naturally followed in the tracks of safe riding and respect for property. Show the public that safe, fun and respectful riding is what we have to offer and we'll get their support.

Yes, I ride off-road. "

mh wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:53 AM:

" let's let all the murders, rapist, drug dealers, and sex offenders out of jail and put all ATV owners behind bars. "

laws wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:26 AM:

" We don't need more laws. We need drivers to use common sense. Just using the ditches alone doesn't make the ruts you are talking about. It's the idiots that "must spin" the wheels and tear everything up that destroy things. Please ride responsibly. "

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