Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Tribal leaders opt out of UND photo shoot

Tribal leaders opt out of UND photo shoot

Mar 14, 2008 - 04:05:09 CDT

GRAND FORKS (AP) - Five current and former tribal college presidents have decided not to take part in a photo shoot for a University of North Dakota student recruiting campaign because of their opposition to the Fighting Sioux nickname, a UND official says.

The first round of the Beyond Beads and Feathers campaign began about two years ago with posters of nine American Indian UND graduates who went on to successful careers. The posters were distributed to reservation high schools and tribal colleges and displayed in the American Indian Student Services house on campus, said Bob Boyd, a UND vice president.

For a second round of the poster campaigns, UND had planned to take a group photo of the 14 UND graduates who are past or present tribal college presidents. Boyd said five graduates declined to take part, citing UND's continued use of the nickname.

"These are all people for whom I have a great deal of respect," Boyd said. "(The photo shoot) is something that would have a great deal of impact on Native American students as they think about their own university careers and the kinds of things they can accomplish. These are people who have worked very hard to get to the point they're at."

United Tribes Technical College President David Gipp was one of the tribal college presidents who declined to participate in the photo shoot. In an e-mail, he praised UND's programs for American Indians, but called the nickname "incessantly and increasingly a topic of dissension among the various communities - tribal and non-tribal."

The other tribal college leaders who declined to participate in the photo shoot are Cynthia Lindquist, president of Cankdeska Cikana tribal college in Fort Totten; Laurel Vermillion, president of Sitting Bull College in Fort Yates; Donald Day, president of Fond du Lac tribal and Community College in Cloquet, Minn.; and Elizabeth Yellow Bird, former president of Fort Berthold tribal college.

UND still plans to do a second round of the poster campaign with portraits of American Indian UND grads, Boyd said, but that group will not include the tribal college administrators.

"The nickname is a complicating factor for many of our Native American students and graduates," Boyd said. "And while they don't agree universally on the issue, it's clear that it remains divisive."

News > State

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Comments

Young Tired Native wrote on Aug 9, 2008 10:01 PM:

" I am so sick and tired of this. I am from Standing Rock and I'm Sioux. I can live with them using the nickname and logo, as long as it is used respectfully. Racism will always be there, but if these guys are truly racist, why on earth would we be their logo? The UND logo is a sign of strength, of dignity. It intimidates opponents, and I'm proud of it. That's what it's there for. I'm tired of these men who are supposed to be 'role models' to the youth, showing them the meaning of courage, respect, wisdom, and generosity, but here they stand, childish fools, fighting over a petty nickname. I have almost lost faith in my tribal leaders. The only men worth listening to are Steven and Archie Fool Bear, who are reasonable and honest. The chairman needs to stop being so childish and listen to his tribe, which is the whole point of democracy. How dare he violate the right of the tribal members? He needs to listen to everyone, including teenagers. Everyone needs to speak their mind, and he needs to listen, like a true leader. "

Where are we headed? wrote on Mar 22, 2008 9:24 AM:

" So the NCAA can now sanction it's members for using Indian Tribe names that it believes "may lead" to a hostile or abusive environment. Perhaps Iowa, Missouri, the Dakotas, and other states may want to look closer at their own sports team names more carefully before they are in the same situation as UND. I wonder what happens if a group of Native Americans in Iowa (of Sioux heritage) claim they don't like the use of the term "Fighting Sioux" even if the North Dakota tribes end up endorsing it? (Hostile and abusive is no longer the issue. It's permission to use language.) "

From Dumber wrote on Mar 22, 2008 8:27 AM:

" What I meant to say was..."I don't believe UND has done anything wrong in the eyes of local, state, or federal law makers." "

Heres an Idea wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:18 PM:

" How about we give them what they want and change our name to "The Fighting Caucasions"! Then they wouldnt be mentioned at all. We arent "disgracing"them, "

To Dumb From Dumber wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:17 PM:

" Dear Dumb,
You can sue anyone for any reason you like but it doesn't mean you'll be successful. I don't believe UND has not done anything wrong in the eyes of local, state, or federal law makers. This is about the NCAA having the right to penalize one of its members for choosing a name that they claimed was abusive and hostile. Interestingly enough, I believe the NCAA has also had a very difficult time identifying what UND has done that is abusive and hostile. As a result the NCAA has changed their position by saying the name could lead to an abusive and hostile environment. So the settlement
is to allow a couple North Dakato Native American tribes to decide whether
UND may use the name and logo. I don't believe these tribes have to show
that the use of "Fighting Sioux" is abusive or hostile but rather just decide for whatever reasons they want.

I sure don't blame Native Americans for the current situation. I suspect some are truly offended, some don't care, and many others are proud of UND's use. I wish the true statistics were known so a good decision by the tribes could be made. I believe the NCAA has gone into an area where it has no business and as a result has created the current turmoil.

"

Deb wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:04 PM:

" "rainbowstar" : that was the best post on this topic I've ever read. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! "

Deb wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:03 PM:

" to "Dumb North Dakotan":

yes, the Cleveland Indians and the Washington Redskins should change their nicknames as well.

If you are threatened or feel subjugated by the Fighting Irish nickname and mascot, then form a group of like-minded people and try to get it changed. "

Rainbowstar wrote on Mar 21, 2008 1:57 PM:

" woe...stop all the hatred! Lashing out at each other won't solve anything. Natives have every right to preserve their dignity and historical integrity, period. For the mascot- logo supporters it shouldn't matter what the team name is because it's the team players that make you proud to cheer for them not their name. The problem with racism is that it is always the opinion of the racist telling the victims what they are suppose to tolerate; Be them BLACK, WOMAN, NATIVE etc. and it is always socially unacceptable. Perhaps if you direct your anger at the Institutions making up the rules like US GVT, College boards, corporations etc. and not at the minority a resolution may occur sooner than later. Set a positive example for the children. P.S. More Native American "warriors" have protected this country than any other ethnic group in this country (including white) even when they weren't even officially recognized as U.S. citizens...they are the last people to talk about patriotisim to! Bless you all from Rainbowstar "

Dumb North Dakotan wrote on Mar 21, 2008 11:51 AM:

" Does this mean I can go sue Notre Dame since they are "The Fighting Irish" and I'm Irish? What about the MLB team the Cleveland Indians or the NFL team Washington Redskins or Poplar Montana's HS team the Indians? "

hugo wrote on Mar 21, 2008 10:09 AM:

" tom than they would be in costume, like cowboys, walk a step back in time. "

Tom wrote on Mar 21, 2008 8:49 AM:

" If the people of the tribes really wanted to speak out they could all start wearing Sioux clothing on a regular basis to all tribal functions. I dont think the leaders of the tribe could ignore it. "

Sick of it all wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:31 PM:

" I'm anxiously awaiting the name change, not because I think it SHOULD be changed (it shouldn't), but because we need to "get on with it." I am a HUGE SIOUX FAN and wonder--why when I go to Devils Lake do I always see native people proudly wearing Sioux attire? Not on occasion, ALWAYS. Not a few native people, SEVERAL. Do their opinions mean nothing to the tribal leaders with a chip on their shoulder? I admire these people wearing their Sioux attire proudly; the tribal leaders would not make good neighbors. Once they would give up this nickname, the Sioux nation would regret it. I'm a white Norske, and I also say (proudly)--"Go Vikings!" "

to sioux forever wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:11 PM:

" After seeing them on tv they sounds like they are whining! they need to worry about other things but it's so messed up they don't even know where to start. but that's ok they have all the time in the world. It's adarn shame how they would disrespect Edward Loon and Aljoe Agard like that. It's a sad sad shame. "

thinking wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:48 PM:

" I read these comments and I hear the "white guy" it this not discrimination? But yet the same people making this comment are the same few that always post negative comments.I don't think they have a problem with the UND name it's the "White Guy" they have a problem with. Pick up an issue of Playboy this month and read what the seminoles did to James E. Billie(one of there own). Its funny how this gentleman made them Billions and Billions of dollars and the Tribe concil voted him out. Now remember this was one of the poorest tribes and now is one of the riches. But once again the tribe concil thought this was for the "BEST" of the tribe. One only learns from others mistakes. He talks about many things that changed his life and he is a true Indian and the Chief of his tribe and always will be. A few of these tribal leaders and others need to contact this Gentleman and take lessons on what a true leader does for his TRIBE. "

Nodak wrote on Mar 20, 2008 5:34 PM:

" These native americans that opted out of the photo shoot are doing a dishonor to their native culture. They do have a choice, but they chose the wrong way on this one. University of North Dakota is first and foremost a place of Higher Education, and not just for a nickname of sports. Most people attend UND not for the nickname or sports, but for the EDUCATION they will recieve. Don't get me wrong sports is a big deal too but not the priority. These people supposedly represent a great accomplishment for native americans and HIGHER EDUCATION. They are supposed to be leaders and display themselves to other natives to show them that you to can recieve high education. "

Sioux Forever wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:56 PM:

" The comment about snakes was uncalled for. Remember, it's not the will of the Sioux people to create this controversy. It's liberal PC whities with the backing of a few puppet "leaders" among the tribes. Don't blam the name change controversy on the Sioux Nation. They are not the ones whining about the name. "

what the!!! wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:16 PM:

" ok so the word sioux means snakes and snakes are known for changing their minds! ok now it all makes sense "

Authentic Sioux wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:03 PM:

" These whiners and complainers are not true Sioux warriors, their the ones that watched the tipis while the real warriors were out fighting real battles. Our ancestors called these guys round da fort indians, whining, begging, acting usica. UND honors the true Sioux warriors, not these self-induced victims. It's only a matter of time for a vote, increased pressure from the people is coming. His Horses and his pitty party are on their way out. "

Tom wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:05 PM:

" Always apart of the problem, never the solution. isn't "beyond beads and feathers" a wonderful program? promoting young native americans to attend college and make something out of themselves? I can see why such intelligent people would not want to take part in such a program. Evidently they could care less about the actual people that they are representing. Can anybody say "out of touch" Yeah they really have the best interest of "their people" in mind here. I have been a strong pro Sioux name for along time.. after reading this I almost wish they would change the name.. why honor these people? "

To To Deb wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Luck for the U.S. the entire world does not think like you. "Boycott everything American". "

To To Deb wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Ha. Your disagreement is petty. Not a reason to organize a boycot over. I do not smoke because of cigarette companies useing dirty tacticts to get people to smoke. I chose not to smoke because it will kill me. My point is...don't boycot Indian casinos because Dave Gipp (who is not a tribal leader)will not take a picture. Boycot them because they are bad. "

Wicked Rezer wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:14 AM:

" Why a story about the 5 that opt'd out,,, why not a story on the 9 who are participating. Always the negative. Anything to make the news. "GO FIGHTING SIOUX" "

Sioux Forever wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Let these so-called "leaders" continue to have their childish hissy fits. There's still plenty of time for the Sioux people to boot these self-serving attention seekers out of office and put things to a popular vote among tribe members. There's a LOT more support for the Fighting Sioux name amoung Sioux people than Gipp, His Horse Is Thunder, and their ilk would have you believe. These "leaders" have jumped on the bandwagon with the PC (Professional Complainers) crowd, and stepped all over the beliefs of their own constituents to get to that bandwagon. "

To Deb, wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:50 AM:

" Please help me understand your interesting double standard. It is dumb for me to boycott a business owned and run by a tribe with whose leadership I have a serious disagreement with? Correct? Wow.

The so called "tribal leaders" ignore real issues that the tribes face to run around the state to photo ops opposing the name. Let's all roll up our sleeves and deal with the issues that our fellow residents have, but let's not get side-tracked by single agenda folks.
"

Idea!! wrote on Mar 18, 2008 2:24 AM:

" Would it be possible to have co mascots? "The Sioux" logo could stay...add another mascot and logo... and between the logos have a handshake of friendship... Then combine the names to be one. It's too bad that some outofstate organization can cause so much trouble between North Dakotans. Let's work together, not apart, k? "

time wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:43 PM:

" If UND was called the Fighting Sioux when some of these people attended the school, why didn't they make a big issue out of the name then? Why would they go through graduation, accept a diploma/degree, from a place that offends them!

Maybe their real issue now is, they want the Indian students to attend Indian colleges rather than UND! "

To mischief wrote on Mar 15, 2008 2:28 PM:

" Mischief,

Sioux is a part of North Dakota State History which we all share and I believe most of us are proud of. I'm sorry to read that you don't believe Sioux heritage is worthy of our pride. But each to their own. "

mischief wrote on Mar 15, 2008 3:46 AM:

" don't you white people have someone or something that you're proud of? to name your mascots after? why does it always have to be native american? you're not honoring my grandchildren or me for onething, and to the wannabes who say it's alright you NEED to reread your histories before you open your big mouths. "

Le meya! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:50 PM:

" There are other UND graduates that are Native American that don't have a problem with the use of the name Sioux. Yes! David Gipp is only Mr,. not Dr. That's just an honorary title. He does things for publicity and he gets it by saying no right now.. It's only a matter of time and Standing Rock will give UND the authority to use the name. Just wait! Year three is dwindling away. Yee Haw!

Don't take this out on all Indians. It's just some wannabees. "

To To Deb wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:40 PM:

" I am glad you are boycotting casinos. Granted the reason you are doing it is silly. Boycott them because they promote bad habits not because a tribe will not endorse a nickname. I am a nickname supporter but if I had to support the nickname with you by my side I would have to decline because I would not be caught out in public associating with people with your mentality. Someone said it one here earlier "Both sides of this argument are just keep getting dumber and dumber". "

proudtobenative wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:40 PM:

" to Fred: you sound like the biggest belly acher of them all. I get tired of reading comments from people like you. people like you are always pretending to know everything about the native people in all reality you know nothing. "

MD in ND wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:26 PM:

" Just seems funny how this has all has turned ugly. Yeah sure our own people gave permission in the past....but as usual they were suckered in believing that it was going to be used in a respectable way. I'm just glad we didn't have some preppy white guy dancing around in a halloween costume on the court or field. Then saying it is a great honor to be a "Fighting Sioux"...then he goes home and changes and washes up.....alot more reputable schools have changed and they didn't close shop. Look at University of Illinois......poor kids were crying when their beloved chief was retired. Like they lost a pet of something. Change happens.....and it's happening!!! Hecitu "

lala wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:08 PM:

" Mr. Gipp was featured on UND's "Beyond Beads & Feathers" campaign a couple of years ago and now he won't even participate in a group photo for the same thing? He sure took advantage of the publicity he got from it. (I refer to him as "Mr." because his doctorate is only an honorary one.) Please, tribal leaders, help take care of the poor education, lack of elderly housing, rampant crime, and so on, on reservations and leave the Sioux logo alone! "

To Fred wrote on Mar 14, 2008 4:14 PM:

" You so called Indians? Which tribe are you talking about? and do you work at the BIA so you know every enrolled members degree of Indian blood or are you just being stupid? If they don't want to take a picture they don't have to no one is making them decline! So let go, move on with your life. And yeah! I am native I don't gamble at the casinos and I don't care about a nickname I have better things to worry about. "

JB wrote on Mar 14, 2008 4:06 PM:

" A response to "to Jb": If you don't like the reservation system, I suggest you write to your congressman. "

to Jb wrote on Mar 14, 2008 3:06 PM:

" That is correct they are Sovereign. so why does the government keep giving them money to embezzle? "

To Deb, wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:51 PM:

" This form of peaceful protest may be to your liking, but I have been vocally boycotting ALL native owned casinos in ND. I will not spend on penny in there again. No concerts, no watered down drinks, not games of chance. As a person of native decent, I stand offended by this whole situation. I will continue to encourage all my friends and family to stay away from the addictive and destructive casinos. "

JB wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:24 PM:

" To NDr: Whatever Engelstad's motives, the NCAA and the State Board of Higher Education have made their determinations. I personally don't find the nickname offensive, but those duly constituted bodies have made their decision. We are a nation of laws and the law has spoken in this case, whether anyone likes it or not.

Furthermore, an acedote about a different sports team having the nickname "Satans" is not relevant to this discussion.

Finally, if you want to start in on how the affected tribes should have a vote, remember, they are Sovereign, meaning they can do as they wish. If they want a referendum, fine, but if they dont, there is nothing non-members can do about it. "

Getting Old wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:49 AM:

" Both sides of this arguement just keep getting dumber and dumber. "

Fred wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:34 AM:

" You know NONE of you so called Indians hardly have any Indian blood left in you anymore anyway so spare me the crying game and stop acting like your so offended! And if you dont like life in America and are unappreciative of the sacrifices made by patriotic Americans -including some VERY patriotic Native Americans- to make this THE greatest country the world has EVER known or ever will know then your free to leave! There's nothing wrong with UND having the name Fighting Sioux... its all about nothing so why dont you just drop it. I'm tired of hearing this belly aching!!! "

NDr aka now confused wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:33 AM:

" JB, I believe Mr. E did what he did because he was PROUD of being called a "Sioux". A great comparison of the logo discussion is what happened at Devils Lake. Devils Lake got rid of their nickname (the Satans) because the pastors and a few "cause" people said having that nickname HONORED Satan. But, for some reason some "cause" people view the Sioux nickname as demeaning. So, it leave people like me at a loss. Are nicknames an honor or demeaning? If their an honor then what better honor than to have your name associated with one of the best athletic programs in the entire country. If they're demeaning, then it seems to me Devils Lake should go back to the Satan nickname. "

JB wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:18 AM:

" The State Board of Higher Education has already said the hockey arena is going to have to be remodeled. Thank you Ralph Engelstad for your stortsighted racism. "

SE Forty wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:53 AM:

" There have been many natives who have fought and given their lives for this country so people could protest things as they saw fit. Now some of you UN-Americans say these people should go along with everything you want! I salute these people who opted out of the und shoot. It takes guts to stand up for what you believe in. So many of you just support the nickname issue because of the race issue. "

Deb wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:47 AM:

" Well played. Keep it up!! Hopefully more of this peaceful protesting will lead to a name change once and for ever. "

I wonder wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:31 AM:

" I wonder what Aljoe Agard, Ed Loon, Thomas Black Hoop and the ones who gave UND persmission to use the name would think of all this waste of time and energy. Question aren't we dissing/disrespsecting them? After all racism is what this is all about, we will never change the bigots and ignorance of racism, they are born ignorant if one chooses to degrade another race. "

NDr wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:19 AM:

" n8vguy, isn't that where YOU were originally from as well? Also, I believe all humans are from the same ancestors. "

perhaps wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:14 AM:

" ha yea lets go back to europe and let them run the country... good example of how they run something can be seen by looking at the reservations. "

n8vguy wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:43 AM:

" perhaps you should opt to go back to europe. "

nodakman wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:02 AM:

" Perhaps they should have opted out of programs that allowed them to recieve their education. Political agenda getting in the way of helping and inspiring others. Shame on them. "

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