Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Lower middle class needs help

Lower middle class needs help

Mar 11, 2008 - 04:05:07 CDT

BY CAROL SCHUMACHER
Menoken

I watched "60 Minutes" March 2 with tears in my eyes.

Hats off to the medical staff members who travel overseas and give treatment to people who own nothing. The medical people don't get compensated for their time but use donations.

What made me most sad is that a free clinic was set up in the United States.

People traveled hundreds of miles or walked to the clinic so they could get some medical help free. Why? Because they can't afford health insurance or the deductible is so high, $500 or more.

Who do we blame - the people, insurance companies, clinics, hospitals, the federal government? It's time for the elite class of people in Washington we elected to wake up and stand up for the lower middle class.

The United States is one of the richest nations. We should take care of citizens. I've been there. I know what it's like to struggle.

News > Opinion

Printer friendly version Lower middle class needs help

Comments

???? wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:00 PM:

" Born again, neocons is a description given to the moderate left. Us on the right that are wrongly labeled do care about children and are pretty much everything you claim we are not. So if it is that you are a neocon, I will agree that you don't care much about nuttin. "

vetter wrote on Mar 18, 2008 7:10 PM:

" Born Again; You said "and their Commie governments pay for their healthcare"...So you think we should take our country down the path of communism as well? Like the left wants? You know that's what they want don't you born again? ....You have the same answer all the time....Call him a neo-con, I have no idea what it means but it sounds nasty, maybe they'll stop calling me a liberal left wing radical.... "

Mom wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:52 PM:

" I agree with Mary K. and Vetter. My husband and I are self employed and we pay a big health care insurance premium every month. Do I wish we didn't have to ? Sure. But on the other hand I don't expect someone else to pay for it for us. We don't have a boat, a motor home, or take fancy vacations. We also don't eat out much, smoke or drink. It's a matter of prioritizing your budget. I do think more should be done to crack down on fraudulent claims and that could help with premiums in the long run. I find it strange that some of the people in the lower income bracket that want free medical also practice unhealthy lifestyles. The only ones I feel sorry for are the kids. They didn't ask to have parents that don't plan ahead. But they'll grow up just like their parents and say give me, give me, give me! "

Born Again wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:08 PM:

" I've been born again, as a Neocon. As far as children's healthcare, we, Neocons really don't care about children, unless you're trying to abort them. We don't want to waste our precious tax cuts for the wealthy 1% on providing education or healthcare for your kids. But, we still need them to fight our other two enemies Iran and North Korea. After all, they helped mastermind the 9-11 attacks. Also, since we are going to saddle the younger generation with our debt from the tax cuts and the Iraq war, we are going to need them to take service jobs at Walmart and Starbuck's. So, we'll provide some healthcare assistance to poor children as long as the majority of money goes to our friends in the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries. We'll continue to ship American jobs overseas where the workers are paid less and their Commie governments pay for their healthcare. On boy, I'm laughing all the way to the bank! "

vetter wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Low Class; I should mention that I have no problem with your children getting gov. assisted health care, until you are able to provide it for them. Check out ?????????'s comments, he's right, there are affordable programs out there right now, as well as Health Savings accounts. Let me ask you another question, and this is no fault of yours Low Class,.... If you were out looking for work, and you stumbled upon an ATM that started spitting out 20 dollar bills to you every time you walked up....would you continue to look for a better paying job, or continue to make that stop at the ATM? And when it finally stopped spitting out those twenties, would you be upset? And would you have that better paying job, or have gone back to school? "

vetter wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:12 AM:

" Low class; Tax the corps? Yeah, that's a great idea, bite the hand that feeds you, smack'em enough and they say s crew you, pull up stakes and leave....You forget, this country owes you NOTHING, nothing but opportunity, it's out there for EVERYONE...Everyone, if you take the blinders off and realize your liberal democrat representatives want you to stay right where you are.....why you say? Let me ask you a question...Who are you voting for LOW CLASS? "

?????? wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:23 AM:

" Instead of complaining on here, why not go to ehealth.com and look at some insurance. I know for a fact that when I sold major medical insurance, Assurant Health has a plan or two plans where premiums start out at $25 a month. A lot ot you are probably paying more for internet. This just goes to prove where everyones priorities are at. And, insurance is not really meant to be there to pay the little bills, it is there to protect you from the BIG bills. Think about this, whats going to hurt you more, a $100 doctor bill or a 100,000 hospital bill. If you would get away from a traditional plan and look into a high deductable HSA health plan, it would save you hundreds if not thousands of $ a year. "

LOW CLASS wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:09 AM:

" I am a person of the lower class and I don't hae health insurance, my children are on medicaid/blue cross blue shield. I hae read the comments of some people saying that if I don't make enough money to move and get a better job. Welllets think about this for a minute. I sell my house that is paid for and go into debt even further to start a higher paying job in a city with higher prop taxes and higher cost of living. I think that leaves me in a worse situation than I'm already in. We need to tax the corps more and the lower class less. "

????? wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:58 PM:

" To the poor, if his injury is work related, why is Workmans comp not paying all his expenses? And as long as you are not married, you are not a three person family by government means. Go to the judge and get married, have him take care of the kid. "

to the"poor" wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:19 PM:

" you're not a good poster child for the cause. If you have a man at home who isn't working, why on earth are you paying for full time daycare? That is money that could be spent on healthcare. Unless it's really welfare that is paying for your daycare. If you have a man at home who is disabled to the point he cannot contribute one iota, it's time to send him home to mama. You better be looking out for you and your kid. "

jim wrote on Mar 17, 2008 12:21 PM:

" to bill g g g r,

not sure where you get the idea that health care is a right? it sure isn't in the us constitution. "

The "poor" wrote on Mar 17, 2008 11:44 AM:

" All we get is a big fat I'm sorry from the "great gov't" ,and I dont sit around whining because I cant afford to go shopping or buy new shoes all the time! I just dont do it,I pay for what is needed and then if there is extra I save it! I relize I could find a better paying job but for now with my schedule it is not going to work.By the way I am also going to school full time I work full time and pay full time for daycare and everything that is needed to be an adult and have my freedom! Deal with it and get over yourself! Yeah life isnt fair but what is these days.If you dont like it call your mom! maybe she will feel sorry for you! "

The "poor" wrote on Mar 17, 2008 11:38 AM:

" To Mary K "Needing help is what distinguishes the lower middle class from the rest isn't it? I mean, the poor are given health care, the wealthy can afford it. "

That is a big pile of you know what.I am classified as poor,I make 9.50/hour and have a daughter and a disabled boyfriend from a work accident.My whole family is denied health care and when we apply for assistance we are denied too.Aparently I make to much for a 3 person household where ONLY 1 is able to work.Yeah I also pay for food daycare and everything else that is needed! My boyfriend had to be in the hospital for a total of like 2 months,and has a bill of more than 200,000 dollars! yet he doesnt get any help and the hospital wants their money in a 3 month period.3 equal payments! Are you kidding me?HeWAS recently denied a much needed surgury because of the bill.This surgury might have made it possible for him to go back to work to make the money to start paying the bill but because he cant work he was denied!?! I think that is messed up. So to all the people who think that healthcare is just givin out, think again! You are wrong!!!! "

Mary K wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:52 AM:

" needs to know more, You ARE part of the problem. I am not getting "poorer and poorer" if you are, do something about it instead of blaming someone else. Blaming others for your failures is the easiest dodge in the world. "

MsRepublicanWit wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:34 AM:

" Vote Republican! We support good health care!
(Not socialism.) "

needs to know more: to Mary K. wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Mary K. yeah right. and u dont no anything. you are not real i dont think u read the acticle and u have to relzie that i am real and people are getting poorer and poorer i have to walk to the libery just to get internet. so i would be quite "

?????????? wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:27 AM:

" Amen Mary. "

Mary K wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:02 AM:

" bigpoppakdog, I'm not arguing with you. Health care is not a right it is a privilage to be paid for by the recipient just like any other service or manufactured good. I pay for mine. I pay for my food, housing and transportation. I don't expect anyone else to pay for it and wouldn't accept it if they did. I sort my priorities and make sacrifices to be able to do this. I have always expected to pay my own way, that's the way I was raised. I have no use for lawsuits brought by whiners and welfare mentality, entitlement grabbing blood suckers. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 16, 2008 11:17 PM:

" Mary K wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:58 PM:
" HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT. IT IS A PRIVILAGE. YOU MY FRIEND SUFFER FROM A WELFARE, ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY. YOU WANT HEALTH CARE? PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. You are part of the problem. "

There is your post.... here is mine...bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:39 PM:
" I'm still waiting for Mary K to answer my question. You said health care is a privilege not a right. I am wondering if a juvenile who is in YCC or an adult at the state pen is denied a trip to the hospital for an injury or a sickness can sue because of a denial of a "right" to health care treatment? I find it hard to deal with the idea that I am required to pay for premiums/co-pays while the low-lifes of society who do nothing but drain my tax dollars anyway get better healthcare than myself or my family and have people tell me to stop whining. " "

Mary K wrote on Mar 16, 2008 9:25 PM:

" GET REAL, You need to go back and read my post again. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 16, 2008 8:34 PM:

" nor do they have people making billions and billions of dollars off of them either!! "

????????? wrote on Mar 16, 2008 6:52 PM:

" And we have it tuff, just think, around 50% of people around the world don't even have access to descent drinking water. "

Socks wrote on Mar 16, 2008 11:13 AM:

" Momof2 - So true. Last I checked daycare for 2 kids for a month was $750. Everything has gone up. I buy the same foods, but seems like the bill has gone up 25%. It now costs $120 a month for gas a month. I work in Bismarck and live in Mandan. I rarely leave the town. I did try the CAT. It takes an hour to get to work and then it doesn't run late enough to get home. (let alone the thought of riding the bus for an hour) "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 16, 2008 8:50 AM:

" I too cry for those have been snatched up by our systems, we are the people, we need to cry out at the injustice, for me I can not believe the taxes and debt Mandan is accumualating, not only in someones life they may be dealing with medical costs, health insurance giving you the run around, gas prices, the local taxes and property taxes just never end. Taxes are out of control, the spending is going to be even more coming up this Monday at 7pm "the event center" Coming Tuesday at 5:30pm at the City commission water will cost will go up more than 100% with the couple water towers proposed to be built, the riverboat from Bismarck they could help purchase and than all those specials for the southside residents. Check it out at bbuz.biz this is only the tip of the spending, Lamont and Ulmer most want to go out with a bang with spending coming up. Mandan taxpayers quit blogging here and go tell them to their face to stop spending. Pack the city commission room and say yes to keeping your money and no to this spending. "

Matt wrote on Mar 15, 2008 10:34 PM:

" I think it is the third party payer system that accounts for the high costs. Fees charged are not based on what consumers can afford or are willing to pay. Having insurance companies pay your medical bills in exchange for a monthly premium thinking that keeps costs down is an illusion. It is perhaps also an illusion to think that cures are "just around the corner" for dread diseases. Research grant money ought to have a time limit on it. After a preset time passes without a cure the grant money should be cut off. Researchers will study things for eternity as long as the grant money keeps coming. Science probably knows what causes and cures illness, but there is more business in keeping people sick than healing them. The whole health care mess is sickening and universal health care won't make it any more affordable. "

momof2 wrote on Mar 15, 2008 10:00 PM:

" all i can say after reading all these comments is that i am glad that my children are covered under medicaid and blue cross, i am not covered and the reason that i do not have insurance is because of the time that i was eligible for insurance it was to expensive for both me and my husband at the time. Now I have filed for divorce from him because he used to beat me and i can not get insurance until open enrollment at work, which even though i make enough not to be on food stamps or housing may not be enough to pay for the premiums. When i do my renewal for their medicaid and blue cross, i probably make to much. what about families like mine?
you say lower cost is not good? you might want to put yourself in my shoes, i work 50 hours a week. pay daycare, rent, food, and everything else, do you really think that leaves much off of my paycheck to pay for insurance? I can tell you right now that it doesn't
"

?????????? wrote on Mar 15, 2008 8:27 PM:

" To me, you can't be surprised that doctors have deals with pharmacuticals? I do find it hard to believe but as far as your $50,000 drug costs, check with Social Services and get on medicaid. You should qualify for extra help. It is definately not shamefull to take advantage of these programs in your situation. Do you qualify for Medicare and a Medicare drug plan? "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 15, 2008 4:19 PM:

" Here is another website containing information concerning the Healthcare War, http://www.uhcan.org/. Yes, it's bias. "

me wrote on Mar 15, 2008 3:50 PM:

" I have a illness that with my co-payment cost 50,000 a year for the drugs, How can I afford that? I can't and to top that off there is only a 50% chance the treatment would take hold, Now I find out my Dr. has stock in the drugs he wants me to use, What is wrong with this picture? "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 15, 2008 1:53 PM:

" For those who are looking for an explanation, including pros and cons, of different models of universal healthcare systems, check out this website http://www.amsa.org/uhc/ "

**It Happens** wrote on Mar 15, 2008 11:46 AM:

" The government doesn't need to provide free health BUT!!!!! it sure wouldn't hurt for them to step in and put some caps on medical services, I mean come on 5 dollars for 2 freakin tylonol? The medical profession has gone completely nuts with what they charge for services and what insurance companys will cover for these services is a flippin joke. If hospitals and doctors weren't allowed to charge outragous amounts for services we wouldn't be in the debacle in the 1st place. The quality of medical service just keeps getting lower and lower and the costs are going higher and higher. You cant even walk past a doctors office these days without it costing you 50 dollars (even after your insurance has paid their part). Until someone puts their foot down on THIS issue 1st, medical and insurance costs are just goin to keep skyrocketing and more and more people are going to have no health insurance. "

Matt wrote on Mar 15, 2008 11:15 AM:

" What is the true cost of health care? Does anybody know for sure. Question is whether the high cost of health care is based on true COST or that is the way it is and we have to accept it. Do providers inflate costs to get insurance companies to jack up rates so they can submit higher fees? Is it the way it is because that is the way the American Medical Association wants it? Managed care brings in more money than developing real cures. Making people well is less profitable, do you suppose?

"

mandan wrote on Mar 15, 2008 12:42 AM:

" It is amazing to me that if prisoners are denied heath care it is cruel and they are able to sue the state but yet we have alot of hardworking people that have never commited a crime are denied health care because of being unable to afford it. The cost of insurance is ridiculous especially when they say they only increase at the most 5% a year yet a year ago ours went up 50%. I believe that those noncriminal working people should have the "right" to health care NOT the criminals. From what I have heard if a person with a felony conviction can be denied medicaid by the state because of the conviction but yet if he was still in prison the state pays. Kind of a strange and stupid setup in my opinion. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:39 PM:

" I'm still waiting for Mary K to answer my question. You said health care is a privilege not a right. I am wondering if a juvenile who is in YCC or an adult at the state pen is denied a trip to the hospital for an injury or a sickness can sue because of a denial of a "right" to health care treatment? I find it hard to deal with the idea that I am required to pay for premiums/co-pays while the low-lifes of society who do nothing but drain my tax dollars anyway get better healthcare than myself or my family and have people tell me to stop whining. "

BILL G-A-R-R wrote on Mar 14, 2008 7:02 PM:

" Lets just all give in to the far right and do what they say, What could go wrong?
go wrong?
go wrong?
go wrong?
go wrong?
go wrong?
go wrong? "

Get Real wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:33 PM:

" Mary K what is keeping you down. What is keeping you from looking for a higher paying job? Education, Experience, Location? You can control all of those, if you choose to. If you are not happy with the current situation you are in...CHANGE IT. There is something you arent telling, why cant you afford health care.

You need to stop looking to the govt to help you, only you can help your self. If you are satisfied working long hours and having nothing to show for it, stay where you are at, if not, get on the internet, look for jobs that you know you can do...in and out of ND, and get it done. "

Mary K wrote on Mar 14, 2008 4:39 PM:

" needs to know more, I assure you my friend, I am real. I might just be the most real person you ever ran up against. That's probably the problem. "

haze wrote on Mar 14, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Or just quit being a victim of society and make it happen for yourself. It's possible. Really, it is. Take all the time you spend whining and complaining and do something constructive towards your career - you'll be shocked!!!!

No need to move. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:24 PM:

" I "agree" with Get Real. If you are tired of low wages, GET OUT OF NORTH DAKOTA AS FAST AS YOU CAN! Go and work in a state that you can make a decent living. "

Get Real wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Let me get this straight, you choose to work for a low wage, ridicule those of us that work our tails off to get where we are at and then DEMAND the government give you a handout?
The only people who should get FREE healthcare are those that are retirement age and children. Children did not ask to be born into poverty, and I think they need have every opportunity to excel. What I cannot figure out yet is how to give only to the children without giving lazy welfare case parents any benefits. (Disclaimer: there are cases when welfare and govt assistance are needed and should be given, and not all people on welfare are lazy)
So please, if you are happy working for crappy wages, then dont complain about the crappy health care. "

Rebecca wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:25 AM:

" To Rasmus: I realize taxes will need to go up because of spending (I never said I liked Bush...I am fiscally conservative, and he spends way too much). However, it is a hypocrisy to say that in the moment where money is becoming tighter and tighter that the middle class, those whom Obama is promising to help, would bear a larger tax burden. I would rather see a reduction in spending, maybe higher taxes for those who can afford it, more accountabilty with government spending, and at the very least keeping the lower middle class (or depending on the state, $32k can be well below poverty) from having to declare bankruptcy. There is an increasingly widening gap between the wealthy and the poor, and raising taxes on the middle class is going to exacerbate the situation. As for government taking health claims, I am not talking about the hesitance to pay claims, I am talking about the inevitable difficulty to even get on the phone with someone (re: my comment on the current foreclosure helpline the government set up). I don't think the U.S. is above it, I think they are below it; I don't think our infrastructure can handle it because there is too much bureacracy in everything our goverment (tries) to do. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:59 AM:

" To Allen,

I learn from the "best," Limbaugh. Coltier, Hannity, O'Reilly, Fox News, AM Talk radio.... "

needs to know more. wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:33 AM:

" ok really im like wondering?
its so annoying!
PEOPLE GET REAL
YOU TOO MARY K
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
did u even read the acticlie? "

????? wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:04 AM:

" Insurance companies are the most regulated industry in America. Most do pay their claims but those claims have to be valid and coded right. 70% of all insurance fraud is from Doctors and other healthcare providers. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:44 PM:

" Recent commentary from the aptly named,"Point to Ponder" has been brilliant, funny, thought-provoking and right on target. Reading those insightful posts assured me that there are still a few bright, witty people left in this country who really get it. Thank you PTP! "

Rasmus wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:48 PM:

" Rebecca, what do you think will happen to our taxes when Bush has taken the National Debt from under $6 trillion to almost $12 trillion? Do you think that we deserve another tax break now? Think of it as one who has maxed out their credit cards and they're behind on their payments. That person sitting by the phone is Uncle Sam. It's very close to the time when the piper must be paid. "

Rasmus wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:41 PM:

" Rebecca, insurance companies of all types are reluctant to pay up when claims are submitted or want to settle for smaller amounts. The term "insurance fraud" should bring to mind companies who defraud policy holders. The aftermath of Katrina is evidence of that. What is the problem with a government agency receiving claims and paying hospitals, clinics, and physicians? It is done the world over! Why are so many people in this country assuming that the US is so much better than every other country that we can't learn from them when it comes to health care? "

ProudDemon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Part Two: How is this money from everyone going to pay for every single person in the United States to have free health care, without something giving. The hospitals will not be able to update their equipment and use state of the art equipment with this little tax money. Just a thought to throw out there. "

ProudDemon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:30 PM:

" So this article is suggesting that the United States should become a Socialized Government...? Has anyone seen or heard about the health care system in Europe? It's not good. I have family who once lived in London and they would not do any surgeries or procedures there because the hospitals and clinics where dingy and horrible. If everyone has to pay a certain set amount of tax to pay for people who can't afford health care, does anybody think that that money may not be enough. Doctors, nurses, CNA's all have to be paid, equipment isn't cheap, there are overhead costs. "

?????? wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:04 PM:

" Government has been dismantleing SS and Medicare for years. Give it to the people. The private sector is way better at managing than the government will ever be. "

Rebecca wrote on Mar 13, 2008 4:30 PM:

" This just in from MSNBC: Hillary and Obama are supporting a budget that would allow income taxes to be raised on those who make as little as $32,000.00 a year ($64,000 for dual income). I don't know about any of you, but it kind of irritates me that Obama is campaigning on helping the middle class while at the same time raising their taxes. Hooray for more hypocrisy in politics. Thank goodness at least ND has a fairly low standard of living, or that could really hurt us. If I lived on the west coast, where money is tight and costs of living are ridiculous, I'd be even more upset. "

Rebecca wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:36 PM:

" To Rasmus: Ok, but what about the other examples? The more the government is involved, the harder it is access the services that they are offering. And I know plenty of people who receive social security, who when they try to fix an error with their social security benefits are made to jump through hoops to get it done. Just because it helps many people doesn't mean there isn't a more efficient way to do it. Besides, social security is fairly simple. Its a different game when people have to call in and actually make claims, as works in health care. Issuing a monthly check and completing a claim in a timely matter are two entirely different things. "

Rasmus wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:06 PM:

" Rebecca, Social Security has been around for a long time and paid out to millions. The secret is to have a system administered by people who want to help the participants and do not want to dismantle and destroy system.

"

Rebecca wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:17 PM:

" Think about how hard it is to get through the bureaucratic nonsense when you call with questions to the IRS or social security. Remember how backlogged the system was when we changed passport restrictions? Now there is a mortgage relief program out there that people are trying to access to prevent foreclosures and they can't get through, and when they do, they are given little help, poor follow up and added frustrations. There are numerous examples of why government run programs are less than ideal for getting things accomplished. Do we really want these same people in charge of our health care? How many months will it take a claim to get processed? I think we should make hospitals come up with standard prices on services, eliminate frivolous lawsuits, make insurance companies more accountable, and better educate the general population on healthy living. Those are the things that will make health care more accessible; not more governmental overhaul and red tape for the patients. "

Allen wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:17 AM:

" Point to Ponder,

Your recent posts are just hate filled, imagination run wild, inflammatory pokes to start an argument rather than discuss the merits of different sides of a single coin. Can't you find a better way to present your position than that? "

Dreamer wrote on Mar 12, 2008 10:44 PM:

" Vetter, someone DOES have to do it, duh. If its not us its the next one, and I'm not about to say that even if we do move on the next one shouldn't get paid squat either. What don't you get about THAT!? Besides, we like our jobs/what we do, but truth be told for all the hours and work the pay could be better, and is better in many other areas and even states than where we live for the same job. So yeah, that makes healthcare even harder to afford. And if your solution to the problem is move or get a different job, what about the next person in that position?? And no, this is not a position anyone in this state can live without!!!!!!! "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:22 PM:

" Also, if you could link the lack of healthcare with weapons of mass destruction, even if it's based on some shoddy intelligence about yellowcake purchases from Nigeria or aluminium tubing, even better!!!! Don't forget to replay Lee Greenwood's song "God Bless the USA" over and over again. Again, were not going to raise taxes to pay for healthcare, we'll just borrow the money from China and other foreign governments. Why pay when you can borrow, isn't that the Neocon Republican motto? "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 12, 2008 4:20 PM:

" In order to talk about healthcare with Neocons, you must first speak their language. First, you must put "war" somewhere in the conversation, like call it "Healthcare War" or "War on Poor Healthcare." Neocons love war, they can't get enough of war. Next, you must relate it to 9-11, like "When those Iraqis and Iranians and North Koreans and Hugo Chavez flew those planes into the World Trade Center, they were attacking our lack of healthcare for freedom loving Americans." Then, avoid the real issues by accusing anyone who doesn't wear an American flag lapel pin as an "anti-healthcare Muslim." "

Vetter wrote on Mar 12, 2008 4:04 PM:

" Dreamer.....don't give us the old line "some one has to do it lady", you don't have to do anything. No one is holding you to that job, or finding a better one, other than yourself with that attitude. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Mar 12, 2008 3:26 PM:

" We're doing more than enough to help the poor and lower middle class. I think it's time we gave the wealthy some tax breaks. "

MsRepublicanWit wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:54 PM:

" We do what we can. It's not as if we can just hand money over to the people who need it when'er. And what do you think that free clinic is standing for? Obviously, there are those who care, those who set up our soup kitchens and food stamps, wikk, and welfare. We're doing something. "

best bet wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:06 PM:

" All people need health care. Get rid of insurance compnies and drug advertising. Let doctors make the decisions as to care. Bill according to costs. I have MANDATORY prescription drug insurance but take NO medicine. Does this make sense? "

Dreamer wrote on Mar 12, 2008 1:20 PM:

" And with that being said I don't think those in prison should get any health or dental care they cannot pay for! THEY had a choice to be in there or out working with the lower middle class being decent hardworking human beings!
Let the darn meth teeth rott right out of their darn heads and instead help me fix my kids cavities & if needed braces and all that because we are not doing drugs to rott our bodies but rather working full & overtime for little that is hard to cover regular bills much less unexpected doc & dental! "

Thankful Person wrote on Mar 12, 2008 1:19 PM:

" I am a retired State Employee from another state. I would like to thank the middle class and low middle class people of my former state for their contribution to my health insurance over the years. A special thanks to those who cannot afford health care for themselves. I know that with all those factory jobs leaving the country and illegal aliens working for much lower wages it is a growing problem in some states. But as long as they pay taxes and even social security under fake names and numbers, it will help balance my social security benefits also.
The unvaccinated illegals swarming across the southern border are cause for concern. Border State schools with all those young people who might carry almost extinct diseases to the other children is a problem.
Back in the 1960’s, in Texas, I remember talking to a young mexican man who had been beaten badly in a physical assault by a few other young men. The local hospital refused to treat him. Over the years the lawsuits from people dying or suffering badly have forced the hospitals to admit everyone. Now the border state hospitals have crowded emergency rooms taking care of poor and illegals who can not afford to go to a doctor otherwise.
Forbes magazine lists Warren Buffett as the richest man in the world. There was a claim that he said he paid less taxes than his secretary. A search under “warren buffett secretary tax” shows many news article on that statement. Most news articles claim he pays a lower tax rate than the rate or percentage his secretary pays. This article is even more clear:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/20/news/buffett_tax/
Fortunately he gives away tremendous amounts of money for charity, much of it involving health issues.
I read that a law was passed in England that required hospital emergency rooms to not leave a person waiting more than 4 hours without treatment. Socialized medicine does not seem to work very well. Well, it is an election year, poor people should bother to vote. "

Dreamer wrote on Mar 12, 2008 1:17 PM:

" What I think "Mary K" doesn't get (and probably because she may be one of the lucky ones who gets a decent wage) is that most people ARE working their butts off, for a low pay. And don't play the old "get a new job" card BECAUSE someone has to do the dirty work lady - and I'd guess it sure isn't going to be YOU. SOoooooo many of these people who cannot pay their healthcare or insurance to have coverage is not because they are sitting on their butts its because they are not getting paid enough for working their butt off TO be able to pay the high costs! I'd say alot of these underpaid workers do a kind of work that keep YOU sitting on your butt in some cushy job! Somehow we do need to take care of those who really make our lil world go round.
I'm not saying we need free healthcare maybe, but the lower middle WORKING class DOES need some help! We can't keep giving everything to the rich! "

Allen wrote on Mar 12, 2008 12:41 PM:

" Roy,

$40 billion a day in Iraq would be about $14.6 trillion a year. This is far more than our entire national budget, not just what is spent in Iraq.

I believe the actual number recently cited by GAO was about $8-12 billion a month.

May want to recheck your sources. "

whatever wrote on Mar 12, 2008 11:21 AM:

" This world is just evil regardless of rich or poor people dont care anymore. no matter who's at fault no one cares "

Cold Hearted wrote on Mar 12, 2008 11:10 AM:

" Now i understand that people should do the best they can to get healthcare. Insurance is expensive and if you have a family working full time just to pay the mortgage or rent, pay for food on the table, pay for gas in the car healthy people have a hard time figuring in such high insurance into their budget. I have health insurance which i have earned, but i do not object at someone that is lesser off than me receiving healthcare from my tax dollars. We are humans we are supposed to have compassion for one another. There is more crap thrown into laws in washington that WASTES tax payer money healthcare is not a waste. I believe that healthcare is a right. How can you sit and say that someones mother, father, sister, or brother cannot recieve healthcare to make thier life better just because they are not as well off as you are. "

Teichthesen wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:17 AM:

" I think what Mary K is trying to say is that health care should be paid for by those who receive it not handed out like gum drops because some one holds their hand out while sitting on their butt. Criminals too. Politics is the means to change, get involved. "

yeesh wrote on Mar 12, 2008 8:37 AM:

" uhg... i just don't get things these days... "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 12, 2008 8:15 AM:

" to mary: Sooooo is healthcare still a privilege for all?? Mr. Brown Otter who is institutionalized for robbing subway gets better health care than my children do. "

Mary K wrote on Mar 12, 2008 5:31 AM:

" Bigpoppadog, Criminals in prison used to work and pay their way but that was deamed as too harsh. Criminals in prison should work and help the prison system support itself. "

harpua wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:30 AM:

" Mary K wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:58 PM:

" HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT. IT IS A PRIVILAGE. YOU MY FRIEND SUFFER FROM A WELFARE, ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY. YOU WANT HEALTH CARE? PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. You are part of the problem. "

So what you're saying is... healthcare is not for the poor, it's for the privledged. I guess I at least should own a first aid kit. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:18 AM:

" Stop belly-aching and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. "

XRES wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:41 PM:

" Ya know what, like alot of North Dakotan's I've been working since I was 13. I'm 40 now, have a wife and a couple of kids and I have great health insurance, which I secured for my family by myself, thru MY labor. Now, if I start paying for everybody else, my health care expense will go up and the level of care me and my family receive will go Down, doesn't make much sense to me does it? Ya got morons on here saying we're spending $40 billion (that's Billion with a "B", ya might want to look at the entire defense budget) a day on the war (pass some this way) and others claiming Health Care is a Right, not a privledge? Wake up, get your butt off the couch and your nose out of the bottle and build yourself a life. "

Jim S wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:07 PM:

" Go and talk to a Vet that uses the VA clinic, that is as close to a socialized healthcare program that we have and look at Walter Reed, remember that scandle? Oh, and if you are in a car accident, it is not the health insurance that pays the bill, it is or will be your auto insurance plan that will pay for it, assuming you either have full coverage or were hit by another motorist and they have insurance and it is not your fault. "

JIm S wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:59 PM:

" What NcCain was talking out was HSA's(Health Savings Accounts). They are beautiful, they will give you affordable insurance at about 1/2 of what traditional insurance plans offer, they will give you a tax break and another vehicle towards your retirement. BC/BS is NOT the answer, they are not a bad company but therre are other options for you, you just have to search for them. Canda's healthcare system is not an answer and as far as European countries health plans, The CEO of Humana is in England right now helping them work out the mess they have with their socialized healthcare program. MAry K, I do agree with most of what you posted and I love your attitude but don't forget that the number 1 reason why insurance premiums are so high is insurance fraud. 70% of all insurance fraud is caused by doctors submitting less than accurate claims. "

Sheesh wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:17 PM:

" Some of you are just sick. I hope there is never a judgement day. "

harpua wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:41 PM:

" Nixon invented the HMO's...nuff said. "

Socks wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:26 PM:

" We as consumers want the best healthcare, equipment, facilities and staff. I'd rather pay private insurance and pick my provider and have choices. I have been insured for a long time and cross my fingers nothing ever happens that I lose my insurance. The medicaid system was ruined by people who abused the system. That's part of the reason why there are so many rules with it now. If something is free, it will be abused. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:16 PM:

" to mary K: if you are a criminal in jail you have the RIGHT to health care. Regardless of your class stature. Just a thought for you to think about. "

Socks wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:14 PM:

" Correction on my previous post ... . All the providers would be Paid a small sum and our services would suffer. "

Rasmus wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:39 PM:

" It seems to me that we can learn a great deal from other countries on this issue. Every time health care is brought up we get the same chorus from the same side of the political spectrum on how "socialized medicine" would kill us. It's killing the Canadians, it's killing most of Europe, blah, blah, blah. I feel that since I am already paying with my taxes for treating people through Medicare and Medicaid, then it follows that I should have that same right. Rights by definition apply to all Americans. "fed up" is onto something: if lobbyists are allowed to run the show we will get no progress. Of course it won't be FREE. We just need to change our priorities. Close some overseas military bases & quit trying to police the whole world on borrowed money. "

Mary K wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:58 PM:

" HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT. IT IS A PRIVILAGE. YOU MY FRIEND SUFFER FROM A WELFARE, ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY. YOU WANT HEALTH CARE? PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. You are part of the problem. "

McCain said wrote on Mar 11, 2008 6:54 PM:

" With the country in such a health care mess John Mccain plan is for a person to open a savings account for his healt5h care and than get a tax credit for it ha ha ha ha and he wants to be President!!!!!!! "

I'll tell ya' wrote on Mar 11, 2008 6:47 PM:

" Without insurance, a visit to my gynecologist costed me a flat $75 (5yrs ago). I felt priveleged to get great coverage under a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan. My return viit to the gyn was billed to BCBS @ $148. They paid their approved amount. My final bill . . . get this . . . $82.
And they want to force me to get insurance??? Not on your life! "

vetter wrote on Mar 11, 2008 5:54 PM:

" To To Mary K; You say your job pays prett good, what kind of car do you drive? How many kids? You choose not to pay for insurance because it's too expensive. There are other options out there, Health savings accounts, etc. Free healthcare is NOT the answer. Find a program that fits your budget and go with it. Are healthcare costs out of control, YEP, frivelous lawsuits, and the government already having their paws in it are the cause. Government control isn't the answer. Mary K is 1000% right.....Healthcare IS a right, free healthcare ISN'T... "

Emil wrote on Mar 11, 2008 5:51 PM:

" What a great country, if you don't have insurance, they just fry some pancakes, and that is supposed to get you taken care of. It is a shame that we have only health care for the rich. Of the thirteen top industrial countries in the world we are ranked number thirteen for quality and our cost per capita is the highest. This George Bush thinking is insane. We can spend three trillion for Iraq, but cannot have health care for our own people while the Europeans laugh at us. The Health industry should be ashamed. "

Socks wrote on Mar 11, 2008 5:47 PM:

" I don't want the government to run the health industry. Have you ever reviewed all the rules of Medicaid or tried to call Medicare on your grandparents behalf. All the providers would be a small sum and our services would suffer. I would like to be able to buy into a private insurance at reasonable rates. Right now insurance is tied to your job and if you have ever been ill, forget trying to get an individual policy. Charge higher rates for smokers and the overweight. 2/3 of this country is overweight. We also need to focus on prevention and getting kids regular check-ups. It amazes me when people say they can't afford the copay, but then at the same time smoke, eat out every day and wear the latest fashions. I am all for helping the needy, but not for helping those who don't help themselves. "

To; Mary K wrote on Mar 11, 2008 4:59 PM:

" You are 100% WRONG. Health care is a RIGHT not a privledge. I have a job that pays pretty good but the insurance is way way to expensive so I cannot afford it. I have never seen a Doctor since I left the army many years ago. I pray everyday that I can stay healthy and just generally have good luck that my body just keeps operating without needing to see a doctor. I just hope that Iam never in a car accident that would require being transported to the hospital or to receive medical care. "

mandan wrote on Mar 11, 2008 4:54 PM:

" whether you have insurance or not the insurance companies healthcare facillities and pharmacueticals all have a real nice game going on us. I was hospitalized recently after my deductible was paid where ins. pays everything. my bill was over 30,000 and the "provider discount" was about 23,000 so all insurance had to pay out was around 11,000 but when I sti;; owed a deductible the so called discount was only about 1-3% of the charge which meant I paid more than the insurance company pays after deductible is paid. where is this right? we pay out alot for our insurance but yet they d not have to. "

vetter wrote on Mar 11, 2008 4:45 PM:

" RIGHT ON MARY K!!!!!!!!!!!! You others that want to put your healthcare in the hands of the government. Let me ask you, do you think they got a pretty good handle on Social Security, or Medicaid? Or ANY of the other gigantic programs on their plate? "

Diggs wrote on Mar 11, 2008 3:46 PM:

" Just one example for the discussion -- 61 year old man - has a health problem -- self employed business owner - can't afford the $7000 a year it costs for health insurance. Goes in to see the doc and discover his heart is working at 10% of normal - on the table they ask if he has insurance and he says no - the doc says, I'm sorry but I can't help you and sends him home. No, I'm sorry, that's wrong and unfortunately for him dead wrong. Something needs to be done. Ooops is that liberal, conservative or just human? "

JB wrote on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM:

" To Rex: Yet another hearty round of applause for our fearless leader, Governor Hoeven, and his support of ethanol!! "

REX wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:55 PM:

" JB, Don't worry about corn syrup. Alternative fuels will put corn out of our financial reach soon. "

JB wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:36 PM:

" As one small example, our steady diet of high fructose corn syrup is going to kill us all. Corporate America NEEDS us to be fat, lazy consumers in order to keep their pyramid scheme operating. All the free health care in the world isn't going to change that. "

IDEA wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:32 PM:

" How about they take all the tax money they are getting from Oil all of it because who knows where that money is going now and start a fund for lets say Healthcare, Social Security. We all know we will be using oil for as long as we live, and at $109 and going up we can't go wrong. If we are going to pay these high prices it might as well go for something that benifits americans. That is why european countries are so high in gas prices, because they use taxes to fund healthcare and other programs. We are catching up in price, but we are not getting anything in return from a gasoline tax dollars. Wake up Washington "

Dirty Word wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Socialism is a dirty word. Christ would far rather see tax breaks for the rich than medical care for everyone. Go, Jesus Go. "

Healthcare Worker wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:27 PM:

" I am in healthcare, and i love what i am doing to help people. We have had patients that have had no insurance who need care. The Dr's i work for discuss the issue and usually do the procedure needed regardless of insurance. Now we can't do this for everyone, but we do the best we can. Healthcare is a major problem. I am lucky i have it, but before this job i could not afford health insurance. We have to understand that health insurance companies, drug companies, and healthcare equipment companies own Washington, DC pure and simple. When a person serving a sentence in jail can recieve full health, and dental package payed by taxpayers, and a family of middle income that works their butt off paycheck to paycheck just to get by can't afford it there is something wrong in America. "

Mary K wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:21 PM:

" Needing help is what distinguishes the lower middle class from the rest isn't it? I mean, the poor are given health care, the wealthy can afford it. Health care is not a right, it is a privilage. I don't want soacialized medicine. I want safe borders, a good economy and free enterprise. I want the Federal Government to get the hell out of my way and let me do it. What makes the government an expert at running a health care system? What makes them experts with fiscal issues? What has the government ever done with competency? Free enterprise, capitalism and competition. May the best man win. "

B in M wrote on Mar 11, 2008 1:31 PM:

" Yea, we'll just borrow it, amortize it and let our kids pay for it when they get older... "

Roy wrote on Mar 11, 2008 1:25 PM:

" Good point, Point to Ponder. Yes Dirty Old Farmer, yes it is "Free" as in the same "Free" that is in Free-dom. Someone has to pay for it. Right now we are all paying for the 45 million who can not afford insurance each time they go to the emergency room. Free-dom does not come free either. You and I have to pay for that too. Just look at our 40 Billion a day we are spending in Iraq. And Lutefisk you have made a very valid and very correct statement. Fat people have got to go. We need to put more of the fat people of this country into the gym so they don't continue to drive up the costs of health care in this country. Maybe the obese should be the next cause the busy bodies out there can take up the fight against once smoking is banned in all 50 states. "

Point to Ponder wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:37 PM:

" To Dirty Old Farmer,

Why don't we just borrow the money from China? That's how we get money to fight the war in Iraq. Don't worry now about paying it back, someone will get the bill after Dubya is out of office. "

Dirty old farmer wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:32 PM:

" 'Roy' FREE health care? Really FREE??? where can I sign up???? Dang what a deal.... go to the hospital and nobody has to pay...WOW!!! It sounds too good to be true... FREE....BOY, OH, BOY.... our government just keeps getting better and better.... I just have to wonder how the government can do this.....FREE thing....do they have some kind of a money tree, or a printing press, or a --- no not another tax? OH,OH... it's maybe not FREE.... Well maybe if we get everybody else to pay the tax...maybe it will be free to someone. "

Bismarck Voter wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:31 PM:

" Anyone who would like to start a fund for free health care for every American is free to make the first donation. Why wait for the government to do it. "

lutefisk wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:24 PM:

" Roy - You have good points, but you also must remember that the US is the most unhealthy country in the world. Our system would be clogged with the obese and lazy. A fat Europeon is hard to find and Canada also has a pretty good track record. What are system needs is to include more incentives to live healthy and not need a heart cath every other year. "

BILL G-A-R-R wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:00 PM:

" It's quite simple...Health care is a right, not a priviledge. "

fed up wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:20 AM:

" We're not going to fix the health care dilema and it is only going to get worse in this country until we vote out the polititions that are wined and dined and financed by the medical lobbyists. I mean check out the candidates running for office. If they have accepted one red cent in any way from these tycoons, expose them and don't vote for them. "

Grumpy Old Republican wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:19 AM:

" The onslaught if the socialist idealogues has begun. "

Roy wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:13 AM:

" I have a couple of friends who live in Canada. They told me that they love their FREE health care services. Free, as in no insurance needed. They do have to wait a few months to receive non-life threatening service care whereas people here who are lucky enough to have insurance may have to only wait a few weeks to get in to have those same services. But that is a small price to pay for free health care. Other friends of mine in Europe have reported the same. It is free and not insurance subsidized like Hilary Clinton proposes. The insurance companies are not in the picture at all unless someone wants to purchase it on their own. The people in these other countries have a standard of living that is the same as ours and they are not taxed to the bone for it either. We may not see it yet, but we are going to be taxed to the bone soon in order to fund an illegal war that costs the US tax payer 40 billion dollars a day to run, at least according to news from March 10th. Which is more important, taxing the people of this country to pay for an illegal war costing us 40 billion a day or asking for tax so that all citizens in this “greatest country in the World” can get health care? "

NYxND wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:48 AM:

" That's right, Just a Thought. Look at all those poor, mindless citizens in countries that have "socialized" medicine. The Swede's, Brits, Danish, French, Norwegians, etc. have all sacrificed a great amount of their personal freedom, don't you think. Those are sure some evil governments, what with their prosperous, happy, healthy citizens being "held hostage." "

Independent Conservative wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:32 AM:

" To Just a Thought: Excellent questions, to whit, I add that what Congress could do to help is pass tort reform laws that help lower the costs of frivilous lawsuits, thus higher malpractice insurance, which is passed along to paying patients. "

jim wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:03 AM:

" just a thought has great advise. "

WHATEVER wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:03 AM:

" 'Just a thought'???? No, that was 'just a worn out Republican talking point'. Health insurance is too costly for a lot of hard working people. I don't know of anyone who can disagree with that. Furthermore, those of us who have health insurance are subject to a corrupt system that takes our skyrocketing premium dollars and spends it on finding ways NOT to cover us when we need it most. We are all just one health crisis away from bankruptcy whether we have insurance or not. The private sector has failed miserably with the health care system we have. The only solution is to join the rest of the industrialized world and have a single payer universal health care system. "

still there wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:52 AM:

" I ahve just found out I have Fibromyalga and my kidneys are going. I have worked from the age of 13. I am now 50. I have found out that there is no help out there. I ahve contacted the people we have in Washington. I have gotten one responce from Dorgans office they only want to know adress to see if I do live in North Dakota. I ahve ocntacted several State agencies and gotten no repsonce. So, tell me if they people we elect really do care. "

Just a Thought wrote on Mar 11, 2008 6:50 AM:

" You say that you've been there...we can only assume that you are no longer there. How did you get away from that situation? Could it have something to do with reaching down and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps rather than waiting for the government to tell you how bad off you have it and let them take care of you while unbeknowst to you, holding you hostage to their control? "

Post Your Own Comment

All online comments are limited to 350 words total.
Comments are reviewed for taste, tone and language before posting.
Some comments may be used in the Tribune's print edition.
We value and respect your privacy, but The Bismarck Tribune might
disclose certain information to governmental entities if served with subpoena.