Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Mandan leaders irresponsible

Mandan leaders irresponsible

Mar 09, 2008 - 09:32:25 CDT

By DOUGLAS OLSEN
Bessemer, Mich.

While visiting family and friends in the Mandan area, where I was born and raised, I noticed that the Mandan City Commission appears to be spending money irresponsibly. It is hard to believe that local public officials would allow the city to be $58 million in debt and are making it worse by spending $600,000 on improvements to 19th Street South, where few buildings exist; $145,000 toward a park related to the new Liberty Memorial Bridge; $100,000 for an electric “Welcome to Mandan” sign; and a plan for replacing the Collins Avenue water tank with a new and possibly larger water tank at the cost of several million dollars.

The inevitable overrun on these projects will drive those costs higher. Add to that a special events center and a $6 million Library Square II project, and where does that leave the city of Mandan and its taxpayers? Horribly in debt and financially broke.

Mandan’s elected public officials think special assessments will solve their monetary problems stemming from such spending habits. They seem to be operating on the principle put forth in the movie “Field of Dreams”: “Build it and they will come.” Statements by Mayor Ken LaMont and Commissioner Dan Ulmer lead me to believe they are operating on that premise. Doing so, they have financially broken the city. Where does the money come from to pay for this debt?

It comes from Mandan taxpayers and their children who will be paying the debt for many years to come.

I have been mayor of Bessemer, Mich., for four years. I find it mind-boggling that public officials in Mandan would saddle taxpayers with so much debt. It would have been legally impossible in Michigan.

If I were looking to relocate either my business or home, I certainly would not go to Mandan. I would go instead to a fiscally responsible community with lower taxes. I hope the taxpayers of Mandan can unite to end the fiscal irresponsibility of their elected public officials.

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Comments

rural Mandan resident wrote on Mar 16, 2008 6:24 PM:

" Mandan is a joke! My taxes are way out of line and for what????? I live on dirt road that the county has to be harrassed to take care of. It's like driving on a washboard. "

Lake wrote on Mar 16, 2008 10:05 AM:

" To Kelly who posted "And speaking about Crying Hill, how could our city and the park board officials ever dare to turn down that man's offer to DONATE it to the city, after he bought it to give it to the city? Not sell it to the city. He wanted to GIVE it to the city. What are our officials thinking? "

I'm pretty sure when something else is done with that land that there will be plenty of people moaning what a tragedy it is that the city didn't preserve it. As the saying goes, 'They don't make important historical sites like that any more!" "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 16, 2008 8:43 AM:

" Nodakman, You are correct I was not commenting about your post, I was commenting about the one who posted as To Nodakman and than they posted again as To Susan Beehler. It is confusing when people blogging do not use a name, nickname when blogging and only address others posting. I agree with you the city is trying to move it forward the best they can. When voters and taxpayers, almost half voted for a different direction by voting for someone else, they could have taken this as a clue their is a group of residents very dissatisfied with the "best" they are doing. They have spent so much time defending their "best" they have failed to try and listen, I think the issues have know become a matter of "control" and they look at some of the residents as what they label them, "naysayers", "insulting" when they are missing the point, the point is there are some of their decisions threatening lifestyle, however modest it may be. As a community we can not eliminate those who disagree, we need dialogue, no matter who difficult it can be. Kelly I agree with you, namecalling is not good, sometimes this is the level people choose to communicate at, so I am called a washing machine I found it very amusing, it made me laugh, I don't know if it was their intent, to be funny but I thought it was very funny, so I related back how they related to me I called them a "dryer". Blogs are a safe way to express ones opinion if we choose to keep them where they are on a computer and with a "grain of salt". "

Kelly wrote on Mar 16, 2008 12:06 AM:

" I read all of this writing and try to think about everybody's opinions. I want Mandan, not maNDan unless you are on the highway driving past Crying Hill and see our city's name big and bold against the hillside, to be a good city. I do not like the name calling here, but it is so clear to me that people are angry, frustrated, and tired. Can't the city officials see this? Don't they know that are so mad at them for wasting our money? You don't see smoke unless something is burning, so maybe they should read all of these postings that talk about our fear that there is corruption. And speaking about Crying Hill, how could our city and the park board officials ever dare to turn down that man's offer to DONATE it to the city, after he bought it to give it to the city? Not sell it to the city. He wanted to GIVE it to the city. What are our officials thinking? "

SusanBeehler wrote on Mar 15, 2008 9:45 PM:

" I am sorry where I am from we call "holding cells", water towers, tanks what ever name you want to call it. You are making my point ! gas has gone up, along with health care costs etc. Many Mandan residents are working 2 and 3 jobs to take home what they took home a couple years ago, the poorest are going to feel the hit first, Come on think about when you had over a 100% increase in pay, why should we put up with this kind of taxation? I suggest putting this off until next year or cut the project way back. If Mandan runs out of water, we can get it in Bismarck, like alot of other shopping has to be done there now. Catch up for 20 or 30 years should not be done in 4 years, the taxpayer does not have endless cash flow, get a clue, and quit acting like a dryer sucking the life out of us. "

To Mrs. Beehler wrote on Mar 15, 2008 5:12 PM:

" Just where do you get your information? A couple of water towers? Every meeting I have ever been at they have only talked about one new holding cell, the question is... two or four million gallons. Your water bill will go up 100% ...From what I have been told maybe around $6.00 per month. Is that 100% ? How much has the gas you put in your car gone up in the last two years? How about your MDU bill? How about your health insurance? Next you will claim these are the commissions fault. Come on! Just what is your solution ? Put it off and don't do anything? That's why we are where we are today. People like you with NO vision. How much will that cost us in the future? What are you going to do when the one million gallon tank on Collins Ave. fails? If it ever does the price for the new holdng cell will be small as compared to the damage that a tank failure will cost. You seem to put a unique spin on everything and anything and put fear every situation. I hope that the commission room is packed and the people can get the facts for themselves instead of your lies and misrepresentations. You would make a great washing machine as you are always on the spin cycle. "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 15, 2008 4:03 PM:

" If you think Mandan is irresponsible, the spending is going to be even more coming up this Monday at 7pm "the event center" Coming Tuesday at 5:30pm at the City commission water will cost will go up more than 100% with the couple water towers proposed to be built, the riverboat from Bismarck they could help purchase and than all those specials for the southside residents. Check it out at bbuz.biz this is only the tip of the spending, Lamont and Ulmer most want to go out with a bang with spending coming up. Mandan taxpayers quit blogging here and go tell them to their face to stop spending. Pack the city commission room and say yes to keeping your money and no to this spending. "

To Susan Beehler: wrote on Mar 15, 2008 3:07 PM:

" It isn't whether people agree or disagree, everyone has an opinion and no two are ever alike. It's HOW you disagree that tells the story. If you disagree just to argue and try to make someone look bad, if you have no viable or potential solutions to the problems, if you have nothing more to offer than criticism and insults, then, to me, that is negative and naysayer. If you have some researched knowledge and potential solutions to offer, that is much more professional and moves it from negative to concerned or team playing. "

One Question: wrote on Mar 15, 2008 1:59 PM:

" The message I get from religious training is to treat others as you want to be treated, respect others and walk in their shoes now and then, don't steal, don't kill, don't lie..... I didn't think the exact wording of the teachings was as important as the message or the interpretation of.... as long as the lesson is there. So did I miss something? If evolution took place rather than Adam and Eve, can we disregard the lesson from their story of disobeying God in the garden and so we can steal when no one is looking? I didn't know that. "

Nodakman wrote on Mar 15, 2008 1:51 PM:

" To Susan Beehler I looked back at my post and didn't find the words negative or naysayer in it at all. i was merely questioning why the Mayor of Bessmer Michigan was chastizing the City of Mandan. I think you are responding to so many posts you are confused as to who said what. I don't agree with every decision the Commission makes but I believe they are trying to move the City forward the best way they can. I respect your passion and accept your apology in advance "

JB wrote on Mar 15, 2008 7:04 AM:

" To One Question: If the stories in the Bible are not necessarily accurate, as you say, then how can one be sure that their underlying message is true? In your post you sound like you want it both ways. "

One Question: wrote on Mar 15, 2008 12:35 AM:

" When I was growing up and learning about religion, I was also taught that the stories in the Bible are not necessarily accurate, but put into words and examples that the simple human mind can relate to and understand. As I grew older I began to understand that even though the stories may not have been totally accurate, they taught valuable and moral lessons in a way that could be understood. What does it matter how the lessons are taught if the moral issues are present? We tell stories to our kids all the time about being nice and using manners, and read them stories and books that give them examples on their levels. At least I did. As an adult some things may sound outragous but the lessons and moral teachings underneath do not. "

JB wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:37 PM:

" To One Question: The religious options presented are predicated on the myth that Jesus was a god and was immaculately conceived. How could that possibly be a superior path? Also, do not forget that Jesus consorted with prostitutes. Does not the Bible clearly state that? So, logic would dictate that going to a strip club is more in line with Jesus's teachings than going to a 'church' that preaches falsehoods. "

One question: wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:59 PM:

" OK, one more question. So then is everything about money? It's better to have sleazy dancing going on and bring in a buck rather than an organized group beinging in more moral ideas or some religious options to our younger generation? "

not a dollar wrote on Mar 14, 2008 4:10 PM:

" FYI - I DO NOT shop at Wal-Wart. not now, not ever. thank you "

4mandan wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:59 PM:

" this is to "not a dollar"...you mention cheap chinese crap, milk, & socks. do you shop at the 2 BIG WALLY'S IN BISMARCK? cheap chinese crap, milk, & socks. low quality items that generally don't work or last. why can't mandan have that too? I to those that say they never go to mandan, good, don't. I never shop in bismarck & i get by just fine. really hate bismarck. if we need something we can't get in mandan, we don't go to bis, we go to minot, dickinson, fargo, or even garrison. they will have what we need & we don't support the bis tax base. property taxes are high because school funding from the state is to low. look at the graph, as school funding has gone down, property taxes have raised propotionately. it is the sin of the legislature. "

GO MANDAN! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:26 PM:

" GO MANDAN! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 12:13 PM:

" If all the negative bashers of the City think they represent the majority of what Mandan citizens think of the progress (yes...PROGRESS!) and the decisions that have been made toward progress, then explain to me why these commissioners have been voted in BY THE PEOPLE....more than once, on top of that, remained after an attempt to recall them. Could it be they have the majority vote because the majority like what they're doing!! If you really don't like it here, ......MOVE! There's plenty of people who support what's being done and there will be plenty more to come. "
"

FYI wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:52 AM:

" There is another church in the downtown district, the cowboy church and there had been one on main street where Simes Graphics is now. "

To One question wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Because the bars with dancers were established businesses for many years in our community. That is what grandfathering is. Letting a "church" relocate to a new/different building in our business district is not a form of grandfathering, it is bending the rules for a new request. If they had been located in that building for many years and we decided to all of a sudden not let churches be in our business district (which we don't do anyway, we gave these people a special permit), letting them stay there and not allowing any other churches to move in to the business district would be grandfathering them in. Maybe you need to understand what grandfathering a business is. It is about not hurting your TAX PAYING businesses. This "church" is just that, a "church"; they do not bring any money in to our city! "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:51 AM:

" To To Nodakman: Maybe it is how he feels, there is not a group of "negative" "naysayers" as you prefer to call them. Every choice the city makes can have a positive or negative outcome to each of the residents, just because you want to label people "negative" and write like you believe people are not individual doesn't mean it is so. Some people will agree with the letter and some won't, it does not mean they are negative, bad or as you call them naysayers. The impact the city decisions has had in some choices they have made have had a negative impact on some of the residents and you have confused people with consequences. People are not the consequence, and their reaction does not make people "negative", it is just a matter of perspective. "

ya'll read this! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:37 AM:

" I just returned from the "town hall" meeting held at the Doublewood Inn in Bismarck. Mr. O'Toole has written a book "The Best-Laid Plans" How Government Planning Harms Your Quality of Life, Your Pocketbook, and Your Future, he spoke about Tax Increment Financing and how it can actually hinder development, by having the rest of the community having to pick up the tax tab, especially effecting school districts. Our taxes are high and if you think this "progress" is going to improve our community by accessing and piling on debt, you will not have to worry about the "vote", people who are affected vote with their pocketbooks and they will just leave our city, just like they did when merchants were not responsive to their needs, they went to Bismarck to shop. Loyalty stops with the buck and I think the city has biten off more than it can chew or swallow. Tim Helbling defensiveness will not keep you open to a difference of opinion, you will not hear what is being said because your focus is on the defense rather than listening. Corruption is defined as impairment of integrity, virtue or moral principal and in some taxpayers eyes this has happened and is happening, Ulmer admited in the Mandan News being offered $100,000 to run for governor, the way he worded it sounded questionable to me, almost bragging. Holding meetings and withholding public records which are not following the open meetings and records law seems to lack integrity in my opinion. Things like this can lead some to believe the commission is corrupt, especially when the city administrator and the attorney are not admonished for not complying with this law, again the defense is up and the message is not heard. When the city commission stops with the defending and starts acknowledging a mistake, real communication can take place. "

"

Ralph wrote on Mar 14, 2008 7:49 AM:

" Ya think? nice to hear an outsiders opinion. Tear down paradise and put up a pizza ranch. "

to nodakman: wrote on Mar 14, 2008 12:13 AM:

" My idea is he got his negative attitude from some of the citizens of this city, and drew encouragement from them. Thank heavens the really negative people or city naysayers are really a very small number. Most people understand economics and the need to spend money in this day and age, because nothing comes free and anything worth something is going to cost along the way. "

nodakman wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:02 PM:

" Why all the turmoil from some hump from the UP. Bessmer is a trashy little town in the UP I wonder why the Mayor thinks he gets to judge other communities. Maybe he could write to the LA Times and get them on the path of good municipal goverment since he is the guiding light. "

One question: wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:48 PM:

" How come some people comment that the church group shouldn't get special treatment, and yet some others, a while back, thought the dancers in the bars should have been grandfathered in? Which would I rather have in this city? "

maNDanJim wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:29 AM:

" We are getting off topic here but no less. The Northern in Fargo is pretty classy. About as classy as a strip club can be anyway. The ones in maNDan were sleazy , I agree. But sleaze can be fun too! "

Dreamer wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:18 AM:

" mandanJim, bbbbbwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaaa!!!!!! Some people have been to see the famous SKIN CITY dancers. I even knew a couple of them. It was a sleaze show, with a sleazy bunch in the workings of it. Meth heads anyone? It was a low quality - very low - operation. And while strip joints don't bother me, have some class and it might have gone over alot better. I honestly think if the place wasn't so sleazy it could have held up just fine. But ND strip joints don't really have any class, talent, cleanliness (literally - not mindset) so they really aren't going to hold up that well in the long run. "

Dreamer wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:57 AM:

" In my opinion if Mandan wants to draw people in to a new park, it better be a heck of a park - not just a playground. To bad we can't have Seaworld in ND huh! LOL!
I NEVER go to Mandan. I try to avoid that. It seems like everyone I know avoids going to Mandan. I am not from Bismarck, from a small ND town. I loooooovvveee going to Bismarck though! I would not cross over to go to a regular ol' park - or even a fancy playground - it better have alot more excitement and appeal than that. And Family Dollar, well, glad your locals will consider shopping there anyway - but I bet when they are in Bismarck they will just pop in there while they are doing their other shopping, way more convenient.
I really think Mandan will never catch up again. To bad for the residents there - ouch those taxes!!! All those taxes for a carpy city. "

nice community wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:24 AM:

" I really like Mandan, unfortunatly I won't be able to live there for fear of the commission and how they plan to pay for everything. "

to love mandan wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:21 AM:

" You say the people who escaped annexation will enjoy the benefits of the new roads and such. I beg to differ. Most those people only use Hwy. 1806 for the main road. I don't think they will start driving towards the new school for the purpose of taking advantage of the newer roads. I think the judge made a very smart decision thinking more of the hard ships it would cause for a few families. Mandan is trying to grow with the bigger cities. They need to take the financial burden off the residents and find other ways to pay for things. With the way the city is handleing things they are only going to hurt themselves in the long run. "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 12, 2008 11:34 PM:

" Well, that's cool. The annex will not happen, so those people will enjoy all the benefits of the infrastructure, access and roads, not to mention the increased value of their homes, while they sit back and not have to pay anything for that. Cities grow and pretty soon the city meets the county, that's how it is. So this decision was based on the opinions of a small percentage of the entire population. What a deal. "

Kenny wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:33 PM:

" I live in Mandan and see that there is progress starting it is about time some of those old buildings start going down and get at least some new ideas and promise for later tax breaks. A old condemed building posses no chance at tax relief the demolishing and hopefully building of new buisnesses will create at the least hope for the future. There is definatly a lot of work to be done from decades of neglect but at least this is a move in the right direction, and I for one give the commission 2 thumbs up for at least getting the ball rolling and trying to change things. "

billy bob wrote on Mar 12, 2008 7:10 PM:

" I do think building a school without infrastructure plans in place BEFORE construction started is very irresponsible. The city just figured they could annex and have the landowners pay for all their improvements?? Unfortunately I don't get to vote in Mandan because I didn't want to pay the taxes. "

maNDanJim wrote on Mar 12, 2008 3:31 PM:

" Thank you Mr. for understanding my point of view. Its not like we are talking about a church in the literal sense either. As much as I would disagree with a standard church of any faith in a business location this group is hardly a church. They claim to be christian but fail to uphold any of the parameters of the faith. Becky Fischer "pastor" has said the following. "We just ask to be covered with the blood of Jesus." - "I can go into a playground of kids that don't know anything about Christianity, lead them to the Lord in a matter of, just no time at all, and just moments later they can be seeing visions and hearing the voice of God, because they're so open. They are so usable in Christianity." - "I wanna see them as radically laying down their lives for the Gospel as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine and all those different places, you know, because we have... excuse me, but we have the truth!" Yeah , take another look at this "church" , and take a look at a film on them called "Jesys Camp." "

part of the ungrateful bunch wrote on Mar 12, 2008 3:12 PM:

" the chickens are (not) coming home to roost. Thank you administrative law judge Allen Hoberg!
"

maNDanJim wrote on Mar 12, 2008 10:27 AM:

" Skin City? Are you serious? They were in bikinis! If you saw it for yourself instead of just basing your views on ignorance you would know they were as dressed as women at the river. "

MR wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:56 AM:

" To "To BismarckJim": The reason to rehash past events, is BECAUSE in a few months we will have a relatively new commission. Please read the article: http://bismarcktribune.com/articles/2007/04/19/news/local/132174.txt

I also feel strongly that this group does not deserve special treatment, as I would believe that no church group should. This is why: "I'm also wondering how a church in that location will affect the overall downtown redevelopment," Helbling said. "It seems we're stepping backwards as it is, not filling a niche business role or providing something like casual dining." This is prime space for any business wishing to come in to our city and pay taxes and it should be left for one to do so. Maybe I should lobby for my church to be able to relocate to the space on Collins and Main. It just doesn't make any sense and Jim was just making sure that we as a community haven't forgotten that these people are on a temporary permit and after this is up, we as a community need to decide whether they should stay in that location or not. Even though the discussion has not included this topic thus far, the letter is titled 'Mandan leaders irresponsible'. I would have to say that I think that it was very irresponsible for our leaders to agree to such a permit for one group in town when there are plenty of other places not in our business district to relocate to. Also, if you read the article, from what I gather, they were given this permit with the understanding that they would be bringing more people in to town to shop etc. Well, it has been almost 12 months and I haven't heard that this place has helped the city generate any new revenue. I vote for them to be out of there and let someone willing to help lower our taxes in! "

Mandan Native wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:25 AM:

" I grew up in Mandan and when I moved back to the area, I intentionally house hunted in Mandan. While home prices here are lower than Fargo, I pay a ridiculous amount in property taxes. When I drive down Main Street, all there is to see are thrift stores, pawn shops and vacant lots. Yes, Family Dollar and O'Reilly's are new businesses and I am more than willing to shop there. However, the current city leaders need to realize that by allowing yet another bar on Main Street, they are not doing themselves any favors when it comes to attracting other businesses. I'm all for green space, but $100K + for a park by a bridge?? An events center that sounds an awful lot like "if we build it, we sure hope they will come", and I hear someone wants to rezone Memorial Highway to force out the Implement dealers. I'm not a farmer/rancher, but those businesses have been there a long time and appear to be pretty profitable. Why on earth would you want to force them to move? For entirely too long, the city leaders of Mandan have operated under the misconception that there is an unlimited supply of cash flowing from their residents. They need to stop spending and take a look at all the debt they have incurred and figure out just how they are going to pay for that. I can live with a street that needs a little repair as long as I can afford to pay my property taxes. If Mandan leaders keep going they way they have been, I won't have any choice but to move out of town. And yes, Mr. Helbling, I vote--in every election--and for the record, I signed the petitions and voted to recall everyone that was up for it. "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:23 AM:

" To Tim Helbling: The unamious decision by the city commission to tear down a building next to Keller insurance because they would not accept the offer of $100,000 from the city for their building seems unfair and if you will, verges on "corruption" the definition I gave in my previous blog. Tim you need to open your ears and eyes. You stated at a commission meeting your family had interest in the Buckhorn Bar which the city paid $75,000 for, you abstaining from the vote and yet you vote to give this owner only $25,000 more than your family received for a abandoned, sub standard building. As a business owner would you be able to relocate a business for $100,000 which would include building a new building,change your address and notifying your clientle, think about it, how would you want to be treated? I think your family faired better with the $75,000 for your ''dried up apple" than this owner would fair for their "juicy orange". This situation is a prime example why the commissions is "smacked" with the "corruption" word. Stop the defense and look at what is being done. "

When to Move wrote on Mar 12, 2008 8:41 AM:

" When I moved back here, I came back for a reprieve (personal property taxes - high cost of living...etc) - I bought a home, 20 years ago...the taxes were $340/yr. YES - $340/yr. Now.........$2800/yr.
Is there a bright shining star with our Comission that can justify that? Please? I am a lucky one that actually makes a decent "salary" in this VERY depressed area. I do not know how the average person makes ends meet when their taxes add on an additonal chunk of change for the taxes????
I sold my house -
I refuse to buy another home in Mandan - I had a visit a short time ago from a businessperson from Denver - for the "heck of it" he requested to look at the realestate here.....He laughed!!! especially at the taxes - not to mention the housing prices (he has 4x the home in Denver for less that 1/2 the price to include LOWER taxes)...He wondered if everyone here is "house rich"....it was embarrassing when he asked what the excruciating taxes go for, because there sure wasn't anything here to justify it...Doesn't Downtown Mandan have any businesses..???
Few and far between....several bars, we're getting another Dollar store, hmmmm, we are getting another bar! hmmmmm, we have more parking, a large underground fuel spill - caused us to tear down some historical buildings...We lost our Hardware Store......they retired, but no effort to bring anything in, oh yah....Paygay Advance stores....Just in time so people can borrow money to pay their taxes and their hugely inflated Mortgage payment...yikes
What happened to my beloved town that I came home to???? "

from mandan wrote on Mar 12, 2008 7:52 AM:

" Ellen Huber is making a ridiculous amount of money----for what???? "

My View wrote on Mar 12, 2008 7:11 AM:

" "Maybe the Mandan Economic Developement Director should be Mandans new mayor - she thinks she runs everything else in the city anyway."

Well, she would do a fine job in my opinion. Lamont has provided strong leadership to help get Mandan turned around and pointed in the right direction. Ellen Huber could take the baton and run with it. "

To BismarckJim: wrote on Mar 12, 2008 12:33 AM:

" What is your problem? Why should that corner bother you so much? It sure beats having the dancers in town and being known as Skin City. Whatever those people do shouldn't be a concern to you, as it isn't to me. They aren't trying to involve you, right? Picketing? This town is beginning to look like a bunch of hillbillies and backward mentality. They "ran people out of town" centuries ago. I think we have surpassed those crude methods. We are expected to accept gay people running around holding hands and getting married, now that would bother me. But I still don't have the right to run them out of town. If you want to make all those decisions, get on the ballot and see if you can get voted in. And what's with all the rehashing of past events, in a few months we will have a relatively new commission, so why keep beating a dead horse? "

BismarckJim wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:25 PM:

" Nah its maNDanJim... For now. Unless I get ran out of town. Part of the ungrateful bunch , you are my kind of person. Susan , please run for mayor again. Tim , Is it ok if I call you Tim? Or would you prefer a more grand title? Its ok , I have nearly been edited to death from posting on topics involving beautiful Mandan. Some take me a hater , on the contrary , I love this city as much as you do Mr. Helbling. I don't question your love for this city or the job you do. When I bring up issues I have about this town I am told you are the man to talk to. You are generally accepted as one of the good guys and I don't mean to question the job you do. All I am saying is I find some of the things that have happened in the town to be offensive. Taxes are through the roof right now , and that is an issue no one seems to want to tackle. I am rubbed the wrong way when I drive down 2nd St. (the baja 1000) knowing people are approving building statues next to a bridge and the like. Not all of the problems in this town are financial however. My biggest concern is what is happening on the corner of Collins and 1st St. Allowing religous extremists to hole up in the heart of our city disgusts and alarms me. Someone made the decision for the 18 month temporary lease , and I will stop at nothing to see it not renewed. Start thinking about a crowd of people on 1st St with picket signs. Say over the 4th of July , Buggies and Blues , and the like. We shouldn't be deciding where these people do their thing , we should be working to run them out of town. Watch Jesus Camp and get back to me. "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:06 PM:

BB wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:50 PM:

" I too do not always like the choices the City Commissioners make, but i would not want there job no matter what they do or try to do it is never good enough for the ones who will not get off there butts and see what it is like to be a City Commissioner, i for one would not want it, so the next time you hate there decisions quit crying about it and why dont you run for the office and see how many friends you make, no matter what they do they will never be able to please anybody, i give them my Kudos for undertaking such a stressfull enviroment and a the bull that goes with it, they are doing something i would never be able to do!!!!! "

yea Mandan wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:20 PM:

" Maybe the Mandan Economic Developement Director should be Mandans new mayor - she thinks she runs everything else in the city anyway. "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 11, 2008 5:19 PM:

" When did Mr. Helbling say he votes the way others do to make it unanimous? Did I miss something? As I have stated before, if anyone can do a better job get on the ballot and see if the voters agree. And I don't know how anyone can prosper in any aspect without spending a few dollars first. It's like that in my house, I have to spend to make money, whether it's on daycare, upkeep of my home, enough cars to go around to get to work... everything costs money if it's ever going to grow and pay off. I don't feel taken advantage of, I feel like my city is improving and coming out of decades of slump. Good post, Mr. Helbling. You're right, this city has enough to deal with, and those were some pretty sharp and most likely unsubstantiated statements made by some. "

part of the ungrateful bunch wrote on Mar 11, 2008 3:59 PM:

" Thanks Tim for posting, I am glad you refrain from voting on city deals with your family's property. In a way you've made my and maNDan Jim's point: YOU ARE PART OF THE OLD GUARD that that still seems to take us non-vested citizens for granted. Stop voting for new ways to "prosper" if they continue to be a new TAX burden. Don't tell us, I got to vote for it because the others are and we should 'look unanimous ." How about the funding for the BRAND NEW Community Center. Pull back on the reins and slow us down. In the current economy we can't possibily continue spending. Thanks. "

JB wrote on Mar 11, 2008 3:34 PM:

" Dear Mr. Helbling:

Do yourself and the City of Mandan a big fat favor and get a new city attorney. That should help things immensely. "

To online editor wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:44 PM:

" Dear editor: The comments maNDanJim made " Our local government is corrupt. Are way off base and not doing the reputation of your newspaper or the City of Mandan any good at all. As a Mandan City commissioner I have no problem standing up and taking a beating when someone can prove me wrong or come forward with supporting evidence to back up what they are talking about. I have learned a great deal from people who have disagreed with me. Having a difference of opinion is a good thing and little progress would ever be made if we all thought alike. But these out and out lies need to stop. I have passed on several deals that could have made me or my family money just because I am a commissioner, And until maNDanJim or your paper can show me different with proof I would suggest you stop letting people print out right lies directed at a person on these blogs. It is one thing to disagree with someone's opinion but to attack them personally with no proof is another. Mandan has many tough issues to deal with without having to deal with crap like this. I do what I do because I love Mandan and want it to succeed and prosper. We have turned the corner and there are many, many great things ahead. Sometimes change is hard but if you feel you can do better please put your name on the next ballet. If you are not up to that please at least take the time to vote.

Tim Helbling "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:36 PM:

" You didn't answer my question, will you be on the ballot? Will you be the one to set things straight? I prefer to look at a glass that is half full, life is too short to go around with a long face and grudges. I prefer to see all the good things that have happened here, all the clean up and new buildings and new fronts, improved library facilities and fire hall, BSC building, and all the rest. And Rebecca, things change. That old library wasn't getting any younger or any more solid. The recalled officials probably were re-elected because the bunch that wanted them gone was not big enough in numbers to pull it off, and the majority apparently were satisfied with their efforts. Marv's Hardware and all the rest of the stores that closed - why do you think that happened? It wasn't because they had booming business, it was because Mandan shops in Bismarck. We wouldn't be losing our Western Store, either, if they had enough business to stay alive. The citizens of Mandan hold their fate in their own hands, and when we lose stores it's because those stores can't afford to stay open with no customers. Blame that on the 17,000 people who live here just in the city. I shop Mandan whenever I can, and I always went to Marv's for paint and other supplies, but I am only one out of a much larger population. "

So? wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Don't forget to vote. "

part of the ungrateful bunch wrote on Mar 11, 2008 2:13 PM:

" "" Everything is wrong, nothing is right, but you don't have any constructive or productive solutions to offer. "" "Love Mandan" heres a constructive, productive solution: rid city hall of the corruption and influence of the "chosen few," rid city hall of people who think throwing money down the rabbit hole of spending money to just spend money. hey it's not their money, it's not your money. Let's build a new 'tower of babel,' people will come to "look" at that! Love. Reminds me of the kids who say, "Daddy beats the crap out of mommy and me because he loves us so much." Wake up from your co-dependance! "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:55 PM:

" To "not a dollar" and "part of the ungrateful bunch", you are examples of just the point I am trying to make. Everything is wrong, nothing is right, but you don't have any constructive or productive solutions to offer. Some people are satisfied to let Mandan sit the same and offer nothing new, to remain stale as it was years ago. I believe our city commission made a positive difference, and my hat goes off to them all. They made more effort to improve Mandan than any of us here. I stated earlier I wouldn't run for an official's seat for anything, largely because I am not knowledgable in areas of government or the workings of it, and probably because I wouldn't open myself up for that kind of defiance from some of the general public. However, I see a few bloggers here who may want to run and see how easy it is to please everyone. I challenge those who have the answers to get out there on the ballot and share those answers. We'd love to hear them. Be aware that this kind of office takes a lot of time away from your family and takes a lot of effort and research and a real love and vision for Mandan. "

Rebecca wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:49 PM:

" I am from Mandan and I loved growing up there. I loved the old library, even if it was old and falling apart. As a child, it had a kind of magical quality because of its age. I loved biking around town and going to Marv's hardware with my dad and I liked the old buildings downtown. Now, it is like a shell of the town it was. But I don't live there anymore and I don't blame the commissioners for the mess. Why? Because even if they and the mayor are doing a terrible job, the people of Mandan refuse to elect anyone else. In the recall election they re-elected every single person they recalled. Why? Because they recognized the names. If Mandan wants to succeed, their voters need to grow up, educate themselves, and make change. Otherwise, my pity only goes so far. "

part of the ungrateful bunch wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:18 PM:

" Sorry i'm soooo ungrateful, commisioner, but do you really care about rank and file, everyday, paycheck to paycheck mandan citizens? Or, do you care more about putting down "folks" that don't agree with you, upholding your inflated self-worth and hubris? Too bad you can't charge for "looking" at the new junior high school. We all can "look" at it as the school district portion of property taxes rises way beyond what any "concerned" elected offical would consider affordable when the school district has to pay for all the infrastructure needed for this "lovely" jr high. "

not a dollar wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:06 PM:

" the company that runs family dollar stores prefer to put their stores in depressed areas. in big cities that means slums and neighborhoods transitioning into slums. Wonder why they picked Mandan? oh boy, cheap chinese-made cr-ap, milk, and socks! a giant step forward in the excellent retail experience. thanks again to all the members of bis-man c of c for their bs posts here. right on mayor olson! "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:09 AM:

" I agree, the Family Dollar Store will offer more than the actual dollar stores, and i don't see a lot of competition between the two types. Many stores have a $ section, including grocery stores and even hardware stores in Bismarck. This is a different kind of store, if anyone would research it beyond the name!! "To Bravo" has the right idea in welcoming this store, we all need to do the same. Our current city commission had to tackle issues that laid dormant or ignored for years, and I think they did a great job. Mandan is cleaned up and more attractive and much more welcoming. Our new Jr. High, along with the attractive elementary schools, will be impressive to anyone looking at our town. We've come a long way from the days of a scary looking Jr. High and partially condemned city library. If anything would turn people away, including potential businesses, it would be the negative attitude of some of the citizens. To answer maNDan Jim, Susan stated a reason why she won't run for city office, and I don't remember the exact wording, but it sounded like some conflict, what I call burning bridges. The other day I was driving down Rosser in Bismarck and the street was so pathetic I actually got out to see if I had a flat tire. Every town has streets that need repair, and I don't see that as such a major issue, sorry. We get new businesses, people complain we already have similar ones. We don't get new businesses, people complain. I wouldn't sit on our city commission for all the tea in China, putting out all that effort tackling long-sitting issues for such an ungrateful bunch. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:32 AM:

" Would bigger businesses and more population(increased by more people moving to mandan becaue of a nicer community)actually cause the property tax $$$/resident to actually go down? Not being sarcastic with that statement. Isn't bigger businesses and more population actually a variable that causes tax$$/person to go down? "

Love Mandan III wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:16 AM:

" I also am satisfied with our city commision! We need progressive leaders like we have now to keep our city moving forward.
"

to bravo wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:13 AM:

" Family Dollar is not a dollar store. Sure they may have some dollar items (most of it is more than a dollar though), but I went to the one in bismarck and guess what-you can buy socks there!!!! Like packages of socks that we now have to drive to Bismarck for!!! I am welcoming this business with open arms as I think that if Family Dollar thrives in our community, other businesses might see that we do support our own town and decide to put up shop in Mandan also. "

maNDanJim wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:14 AM:

" Our local government is corrupt. All of these things happening and 2nd St. is one of the worst streets in Bismarck/Mandan. The city I once loved now induces anger. Susan , why aren't you running for mayor? Let the fools in this city have one more chance to do the right thing by voting you in. "

All Right! wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:40 AM:

" Mandan residents and government spent way too many years complaining that they don't have enough good shopping in town, all the while doing everything they could to keep out any competition and to discourage businesses from locating there. Positive change is occuring and Mandan is becoming a much nicer city to live in and visit because of it. Sounds good to me! "

also love mandan wrote on Mar 10, 2008 2:32 PM:

" I also love Mandan and am very happy with the progress that I have been seeing. If these folks were not afraid to take on BN and tackle some very tuff issues I would hate to see where Mandan would be. It is a shame that it costs so much more to do things today then it did just ten years ago but if they keep putting things off like Mrs. Beehler would like to see, how much is it going to cost us ten more years from now? I applaud them for sticking to a vision and it is one that I did not believe in just four years ago but I can really see progress and I am happy they did not listen to all of us naysayers . I am proud to say I am from Mandan and keep up the good work! "

Love Mandan: wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:22 AM:

" I live in Mandan and love Mandan, and am plenty satisfied with what has been happening. What I don't like is all the people who have never sat in a city leaders chair, and think they have all the answers. No, wait, they don't have the answers, they just like to criticize because no one holds them responsible for anything. The negative attitudes in this town are pathetic, and are, in my opinion, holding us back. If all the people who have such sharp and unprofessional opinions would put that energy into supporting the city, not fighting it, we would certainly be in better shape. Not everyone has to agree with things that are done, but city leaders, in any city at any time, make the final decisions, that's their purpose. To give constructive criticism or offer solid suggestions is one thing, but the constant chipping away at those in authority is getting tiresome to a lot of us. So often I am reminded of 3rd grade mentality "no one listens to me". Well, if you aren't heard, it may just be the way you present yourself. Have some respect for those in authority, and help, don't hinder, their efforts. "

Susan Beehler wrote on Mar 10, 2008 7:22 AM:

" Thank you! Douglas Olson for writing your letter. Some of the bloggers here want to justify the pilfering of the taxpayer trading what they think is growth for a debt that is some of the highest of all the major North Dakota cities. In my research only West Fargo had about the same debt per capitia as Mandan in the form of specials. Going from "stale" to indebtedness is not growth it is trying to force something into happen and gambling with the taxpayer's dollar. This commission was also very willing to sacrifice any business not willing to go along with their "development", the latest casualty of this "development" will be Keller Insurance on Main. If Ulmer wants to grow Mandan you can't treat the business people here like crap and force them to do what you think is best when they know their business better than you or any city government. It does not take much for any business owner looking to start up a business in Mandan to figure out it is the Mandan's city adminstration way or leave, oh unless of course you have been in the inner "clique" of the city workings and they just like you. True growth is not control, control to this extent is abuse of power. Just because there is movement in the downtown, doesn't mean it is growing, it is just rearranging with a proganda campaign saying it is growth. "

To Green: wrote on Mar 10, 2008 12:47 AM:

" I agree, Mandan was at a stand still for years. At one time they wanted a K-Mart here but the local business's at that time were afraid of the competition. All those stores are gone now, and we still have no K-Mart, but a family dollar store will be a nice start. Yes, the current commission is trying to be active and go forward, but the city, from years of being stale, can't seem to grasp progress and the "growing pains" that come with it when a city has been stale for so long. I don't want to be like a small town of 2000 where nothing changes, ever, and everyone is satisfied with the same ol' same ol'. I like what I have seen in Mandan the past ten years, it's more than I saw the twenty years before that, except for an ill-placed racetrack. I believe our city leaders based decisions on what was best for the whole of the city, not for a few, but for progress to happen for years to come. I will not like seeing Mandan go stale again, and hope that whoever our new leaders are, they are not afraid of stepping on a few toes to keep things going ahead. Our taxes are high but at least I am seeing some things happening. Our taxes probably wouldn't have to be like they are had progress happened all along, but when it has to happen in both a current and "catch-up" fashion, taxes will reflect that for a while. Too bad, but we can't look back, only forward. "

Kudos wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:28 PM:

" If you want to know the legal ins and outs of Mandan's present situation, you just need to talk to City Attorney Malcolm Brown. He knows what's going on. "

The Truth wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:12 PM:

" To like what Mandan is doing....I would agree with you if I lived in Bismarck. Move to Mandan and help us pay for out outrages property taxe`s. This June I hope it is out with the old(like Tibke) in with the new "

Green wrote on Mar 9, 2008 5:47 PM:

" Mandan is finally undoing many years of resistance to change and preservation of the status quo. Growing pains are painful but necessary. The naysayers and negative thinkers limited what Mandan was in the past. Let's not let them do that in the future, too. "

mandan wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:15 PM:

" The writer of this letter is absolutely correct in his observations. Obviously a few of you missed the part where he is from here was raised here in Mandan. We here in Mandan do pay the highest property taxes in the state and have really nothing to show for it. We have been tol about Family Dollar and O'Reilly's for at least a year and finally after both have been open in Bismarck for almost that long they are finally building. Why we really needed another parts store is beyond me but it is new. The best streets we have in town are main the newly finished collins and half of old red trail the rest are awful. Where is our money really going? Other states with towns our size have lower taxes and no soecials and their streets are great and thet are fiscally responsible. We are never going to get out of debt until our city officials wake up or get booted out and there is huge change other than trying to force annexation to bring in more taxes they can spend how they want. We need new blood in the commission to bring innovation and responsibility to Mandan and all it's taxpayers, current and future. "

bravo wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:09 PM:

" Bravo to Mr. Olson!! I will agree that we can't blame what Mandan had become{ a bedroom community} on our present mayor and commissioners. It was the city Fathers of years ago that wouldn't let any major retail or business into Mandan, and now they are retired and Bismarck has taken all the growth in that area. But what the problem is now, is that our present leaders think they can undo this, in 10 years. At whose expense? It is already a fact that Mandan is the highest taxed city in ND, and now tax and special access them to the tune of Millions of dollars. Lamont and Ulmer talk about all the growth. What about the ones that have left and are leaving. Marv's, western shop, and now they want to rezone the strip, which is going to chase out some other profitable business'. Wow, Family Dollar, right next door to our locally owned dollar store, I only hope she doesn't have to close her doors now. Oh. and O'Reilly's, another parts store, 3 in Mandan!! How long untill one of our existing "locally owned" stores has to close their doors. That's growth?!!! Those parks make the city look nice but they don't pay taxes and who is using them???? And this big sign to announce activities, why put it downtown, the residents already know what is going on in town, we're a small community. At least place the sign where it will allert people passing by our city to come in. I think I understand what the commisioners are trying to do, but, can we afford it?? Ourselves and a number of friends of ours are talking that we may have to move out of Mandan,cuz, plain and simple we can't afford to live here. I am curious where these previous bloggers are employed, that they think they can afford to uphold all this spending. "

LL wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Mr. Olson of Bessemer, Michigan. Thank you for your critique of the situation that exists in Mandan. I do believe those of us living in Mandan and the surrounding area can deal with the situation and its unique problems and opportunities. Doing some research on the Internet I found Bessemer to have, as of the 2000 census, a population of 2,148 people. The town of Ironwood is several miles to the west and Wakefield several miles to the east, Bessemer is located on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Tourism plays an important role; the Blackjack and Indianhead ski areas are located within a few miles of Bessemer. Cross-country skiing and snowmobiling are also very popular in this area known as Big Snow country because of heavy snowfall influence by nearby Lake Superior. The per capita income (all statistics given are from the 2000 census) for the city was $17,499.00. About 8.6% of families and 12.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 17.0% of those under 18 and 7.9% of those age 65 or older. On the other hand Mandan as of the 2000 census has a population of 16,718 people. The per capita income for the city was $17,509.00. About 7.0% of families and 10.0% of the population were below the poverty line, including 12.2% under the age of 18 and 13.6% of those age 65 or over. Mandan has an immediate neighbor to the east called Bismarck (the city limits are separated by the Missouri River). One Railroad Bridge and three automobile bridges connect the cities. As of the 2000 census Bismarck had a population of 55,532 people. The per capita income was $20,789.00. About 5.7% of families and 8.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 9.5% of those under age 18 and 7.4% of those ages 65 or over. Bismarck/Mandan is the principle retail area, educational area and medical area for south central North Dakota. A spirit of healthy competition has always existed between the two cities. "

Mandan person wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:12 PM:

" i'll believe Mandan is getting better when I can do my shopping here. the only things I buy here are groceries. "

To reid wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:48 PM:

" WHAT?????????????? Improvements over the past 30 years? Oh thats right forgot about how easy it is to find a parking spot on Main Street to get into the 2 or 3 retail shops that are still here. SORRY MY BAD. "

Like What Mandan is Doing! wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:19 AM:

" I'm a Bismarck resident but I think Mandan and its leadership is doing a fantastic job of advancing the city and making Mandan a nicer community to be part of. Bismarck leadership could take a few notes from how Mandan is revitalizing the downtown area. As far as debt, every city of any size is going to have debt. Could you imagine the hit to taxpayers if everything in a city that size had to be paid with cash immediately?

What I see in Mandan is a city that spent way too many decades complaining that it was being left behind in the wake of Bismarck, yet unwilling to make any major committments to change and improvement. With what Mandan is doing today to energize the downtown, parks, developments and other areas there won't be any back seat to take to Bismarck much longer. I hear of Bismarck businesses that for the first time ever are saying that perhaps it's time to take a close look at locating in Mandan. The one thing that Mandan really missed out on was the chance to take an offered gift of importance to the heritage of the area (Crying Hill) and preserve it for the enjoyment of current and future residents and visitors but that's another story and perhaps it isn't too late to do that.

My congratulations to Mayor Lamont, other city leadership, and residents and businesses for what you are doing in Mandan. It's looks very nice to me and looks like it will pay dividends in your future. "

reid wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:02 AM:

"
" Visitng family and friends and you "noticed"? Just how long did you spend in Mandan? Did you attend meetings, research the history of the city, the actions of administrations in previous years, the extent of the oil spill and the ramifications from it, the way the city shot down an idea for a box store 30 years ago? Did you have a chance to compare our city now to ten years ago, just the cleaner and more attractive open areas and the new buildings and the update of the older ones? Did you get a chance to see the old dangerous building we had for a library for decades? Did you set up a meeting with our city officials and visit about all the past issues that present today's problems? I am just an ordinary citizen of Mandan, but I know when things go on that I have nothing to contribute to because of my lack of knowledge in those areas. I have seen many improvements in this city over the last 30 years, but then I live here! Did you visit with Bismarck city officials and learn of some of their issues and problems? These are large cities with large problems. We can't solve them at the main street cafe. We have potential here for progress and growth, but it takes major steps that don't always pay off immediately. Again, I'm just a citizen who gets so tired of the negative attitudes and automatic rebellion that occurs with EVERY move our leaders make. If we all put our energy into going forward rather than looking backward or staying the same, we could do great things. But when people dig in their heels just to be contrary this is where we are and this is how we appear to others. And that negative attitude spreads, doesn't it? " "

Enough Said wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:35 AM:

" I couldnt have said it any better. Bravo to whom ever you are "

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