Bismarck, North Dakota News

" Nice response. You are a class act. My observation is you try hard to verify your facts; which isn't always easy but is always subject to multiple interpretations. Keep up the good work! "

" I appreciate reading these statistics. I agree that they are not intended to be an in depth news article. Many people do not look insot statistics that come out monthly, quarterly, annualy, etc... The state of North Dakota alone provides monthly and quarterly statistics on wages, workers, taxable sales, airport boardings, etc... etc... they are interesting statistics that reflect what is happening in ND's economy. I find this information interesting, as I sure many other readers do. Many people don't think to dig into the nd.gov site to search for these statistics, so nice someone else does, so we can see these figures and numbers. "

" Thanks for all of your comments. I must note that this is simply a weekly column, not a full-blown article. Regardless, I will also offer that there are many, many sources for basic statistics on wages, commute times, medians, averages, etc. Rarely are there merely "two sides" to reports on statistics, but varying and often competing data. This column is intends simply to let readers know about stats as compiled and reported by a local state agency, released recently. I encourage you to contact Job Service North Dakota if you have further concerns about their methods and disparities between other, national statistics.

And no, I will never respond to a blogger under a different name, or encourage others to do so for me.

Again, thanks for your comments, and for continuing to read columns and articles online at the Bismarck Tribune. "

" to Mike~ get a life~ and I am not a dude thanks anyway~ too bad you aren't even on the same subject~

simple point~ an article should have both sides so that we as readers can make our own opinion~ no attack~just simple~ not personal~ just a thought~ not offended on being attackec~ your freedom~

my thoughts remain the same~ write a story with real facts~ several other bloggers proved the article wrong but I don't see anyone attacking them "

" uhhhhmmmmm....kk....so are we then supposed to assume your are intelligent and tell 2 sides to everything but yet everyone else is stupid and one sided? seems you just come on and critique everyone else but yourself. Take a look in the mirror dude! Maybe it hurts a bit when people attack you. Maybe you are a bit closed minded yourself when it comes to your own comments. Maybe you do not see them for what they really are...one sided attacks on others. "

" "All the time" give me a break. Do you like to be attacked? Do you take it like a man? doubt it~

I said my peace and I am done~ people can't accept anyone's else take on anything in these blogs~ so remain closeminded and accept journalism as you read it~ you need both sides of a story to be educated though ~and be able to form your own opinion~ don't be quick to accept articles because they were submitted by a journalist "

" To "disagree with article". Your point of shoveling and scraping ice off the windows is not even close to the mark. I moved my family back to ND 3 years ago. We lived in the Phoenix area for 8 years. Our commute went from 2 hours a day (to and from) to 15 minutes total. We got back an hour and 45 minutes a day of our personal lives just from the commute. When you have kids, that can not be replaced. "

" Quote of the Day:
"How uneasy an American worker would be if he were forced to live in the style of a medieval lord and to miss the plumbing facilities and the other gadgets he simply takes for granted" - Ludwig von Mises "

" A livable wage is all most of the people are asking for. The phrase goes: You get what you pay for. If the pay is little the the work is little from the person -- pay more & get more work from the person. Businesses are complaining that they can't get good help. But if good help fell at their door step they would not pay them any more the the poor help. You have to take care of the people that take care of you or someone else will. As a manager or business owner it is tough to find good people that will do quality work but when someone does appear --- we should be taking good care of them so we both can benefit. "

" kk, why is it anytime someone criticizes your attacks on others you right away assume we are the attackee's significant other or mother, or something...that's kind of being a bit junior high. Grow up! If you are going to attack others, expect to be attacked back. "

" In case it makes anybody feel better, here in northern California I have had to scrape the ice off my car windows the last few mornings. "

" Those of you who are content to complain about your wages should sit back and look at the choices you have made with your lives. If you are not happy with your wages, get yourself some education and MAKE your own lives better. Stop complaining about things that you DO have the power to control.
There will always be a need for the "Worker" bees to take care of the work that others do not want to do. ND is a great place but because of all the complaining it would seem like it is terrible to live there. Be thankfull and quit whining. "

" Interesting article and interesting comments. The figures don't really align with the figures posted in th Money Magazine article, however. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2007/snapshots/PL3807200.htmlAnd Disagree with Article brings up some interesting points about commute time. To make the numbers fair, however, you would have to average that added winter hassle over the rest of the year when our weather isn't any worse than that of other states. And, you'd also have to figure out the percentage of people who park inside garages vs. those who park outside each night, and then figure out the number of days where driveways needed to be shoveled to get out as opposed to choosing to scrape an inch or two. Plus I dont think any of it really counts towards commute time but towards the time needed to get ready to work. It's not like this is Lake Tahoe or Denver where they get 6 feet of snow at a time so we're not often facing commute delays due to plowing and road hazards. I thik PO3 is on to something. Let's find out just what percentage of folks are making substandard wages. I bet a lot of complainers would shut up when they find out thigns aren't as bad here as some make it seem. Oh, and last time I checked a McD franchise cost between $3-5M. "

" give me a break MARY~ constructive criticism is great but don't attack me and say that "you know who I am" and that I am "picking" on Crystal. last I checked this is the United States and we have freedom of speech and thought so give it up~

hey mary~ are you her mother or are you Crystal using an alias?

This is not a personal vendeta~ just an opinion~ I guess if you don't agree then you are victimized "

" Poor Poor KK... blogger who doesn't want to be criticized, but yet he seems to always criticize others. "

" are you crystal's significant other? don't be so defensive~ she is a young write and always gives one side of stories~ and she writes only what she reads~ hardly "newsworthy"
and as far as my blog~ I don't get paid to write so don't critique me~ like others~ we have a right to voice our opinion and ask for quality journalism "

" Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot. In kk's (and others) defense....these stats and this story, being on the main page for at least 4 days now, provides nothing in the way of information. Of course Buelah has higher wages....with all the mines in the area...but even those are weak at best, as an AVERAGE. I've read through some of JS wage stat reports, and they are dismal. Plain and simple. "

" Some people aren't happy unless they are complaining. Don't like the snow? Then you better move because you know it's coming every winter and really it hasn't been that bad over the past few years. High paid gov. jobs? Are you kidding me!! They had to give adjustments in the last session just to get wages close to the private sector! As someone else stated here, there are an awful lot of high priced houses in the area. Now I will agree that some of those or maybe many of those, people have more house than they can afford, but even to get a bank to give them a loan they have to make well over the median income for the area "

" kk, what is your issue with Crystal Reid? You seem to come on and always nit pick...don't you have anything better to do in your life? I'd much rather read stories, articles, statistics, or whatever from someone like her, than a whiny "wanna be" writer... or whatever your reason is for always criticizing her reports. You are sooooooo tiring. You change your name, but we can always tell it is you. "

" Link to report: http://www.ndworkforceintelligence.com/gsipub/index.asp?docid=350 "

" Sister...you gotta get yourself an astro-start. Best invention since the microwave. When my 15 year old asked for that over an X-Box, you know it's the thing to have! "

" Ms. Reid,

You wouldn't per chance have a link to the full report?

If you do could you post it for us, I for one am always interested in keeping up to speed on topics such as this.

Thanks! "

" Thanks Paul K! I agree with you, it's not at all as dismal as Disagree with Article makes it seem, but just to oblige his requests, I'll count those other factors in. This morning it took me one minute to throw on boots and run outside and start my car. It magically heated itself up while I finished getting ready. This seems to work a lot better than getting ready and then allowing myself an extra 15 minutes just to let the car warm up. While the car is warming up, it also does this crazy defrost thing to the windows!!!! I didn't have to shovel the driveway, but if I did, it would probably take me about 30 minutes, but that would be for quite a while since we haven't had heavy snowfall in Bismarck--oh, and my rents is reduced by the landlords for doing it, so I guess the time doesn't bother me.

The thing is, incomes do need to improve, but it takes time. It'd be great if we could have a nifty little genie to make it an overnight change, but really? We've seen incomes rise in the past and as the Beacon Hill study shows, we're 4th in the competitive index. If you've read that, it outlines how being competitive means the state is in a position to increase its per capita income. With the essential tools in place, I think we can expect to see results over the next few years--given we quit giving in to the doom and gloom attitudes that many others would like us to have. "

" Please note that this column is based only by area statistics as reported annually by Job Service North Dakota. Not Google. Also, the statistics are for 2006, not 2007 - as noted in the column. They lag a year, and only report averages.
And finally: Yes, state government is the largest employer. This report, however, broke down those jobs by agency, not state government as a whole. "

" Hmm, Does even WalMart pay minimum wage starting out? Or Menards/Home Depot/Lowes?

Thought not.

One must always be careful of statistics and the message the other person is intending to communicate with them.

I somehow really doubt the "high paying bureaucratic jobs" of ND state govt are skewing these numbers in anything but a downward direction. Yep, downward would be my guess.

And if you don't believe me, feel free to apply for one of those lucrative opportunities the next time it becomes available. I think the site is Jobsnd.gov.


Here's a hint at who has the higher salaries in town. A simple business rule of thumb can be applied here. The long-term return on the stock market is about 10%. Business investors strive for something closer to 20% (the reward for working is that extra 10%). So take a look at a business in town and estimate its market value. Whatever you come up with for that number multiply it by 0.2 and you should have the average salary of its owner.

So a new McD's comes into town, what's the startup cost? Maybe 1.5 million bucks? Just guessing here as I really don't know what the building and franchise would cost today, but the franchise alone was worth about one million 20 years ago.

So 1.5 million times 0.2 equals $300k. That is the expected return of the financer/operator. Otherwise you should just take that money and invest in the stock market and live off the interest.

Now take a look around and think about that little ice cream/donut shop or jiffy lube. "

" Interesting, it appears that the median household income for Bismarck has plunged 6626.00 per year since last year from 46048.00 http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Bismarck_ND-ECONOMY-53807200020.aspx
and in Mandan it plunged $4787.00 per year since last year from $42,969.00
http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Mandan_ND-ECONOMY-53849900020.aspx.
I wonder how that could happen with our booming economy? Another example of the State spinning service trying to hoodwink us citizens. "

" once again Crystal Reid has not done her homework but gone to google or wherever she goes and writes a one-sided story~waht a surprise "

" Most all of the 10,000 jobs offered are "minimum wage" service jobs, not "Living Wage" jobs. Most of these jobs will never be filled unless a better wage or salary, with good benefits, are offered. Then you will see people interested in moving to North Dakota for a better living lifestyle. Now most people working in N.D. are just "Wage Slaves" and are either under-employed or working at least two jobs or more just to make ends meet. Can you really call that enjoying North Dakota's "Quality of Life?" Only the elite few can do that.
"

" How much time do you really spend every month shoveling snow out of your driveway? And have you ever lived in a real city before? The time you spend scraping ice off of your car is insignificant compared to the total time a commute takes in a large city - It takes me longer to walk from the place I park at work to my office than it does to scrape ice off my car.

Your "big picture" thinking is much more distorted than anything in the article.
Get some prozac or move somewhere else for gods sake! "

" Yes, the low and high wages should be posted. Averages mean nothing. "

" Yes, there are some highly-paid government workers but they are a vast minority. A lot of play's been given to the high wages at WSI, among some of the elected officials, federal employees, etc. But the average state employee, at least in my agency, makes about $30 K with benefits; I'm at about $28K right now. There are also some making $11-12 a hour that aren't salaried. Unlike some in state employment, I'm not complaining at all -- I chose to go into my profession knowing full well the salary range was $25-35 K, and I could have done something else for more money had I wished. And I'm not poverty-stricken at all -- I have everything I need and some of what I want; I don't overspend and am not in huge debt. But the idea that "all" state employees are making big bucks is just not true and it'd be nice if the Tribune would recognize that fact. "

" If ND is ranked so high on high paying jobs than why are so many people working 2 or more jobs to survive in the area? If a person works 2 JOBS than they might be close to what the survey is talking about. "

" Don't be fooled by the "cup is half empty" attitude of "Disagree with Article". "Those highly paid bureaucratic positions" in Bismarck are there, but they don't skew the statistics near as much as he is trying to make you believe. There are a considerable amount of non-governmental people in the area that are paid well. Proof can be found just by looking at the number of $350,000+ homes in the area!! And, I, like most others, got up this morning and drove to work (6 minutes) without shoveing any snow out of the driveway, scraping the windows, or warming up the car. Just like I do on the VAST majority of the 365 days of the year. See what happens when you base a response on doom and gloom facts, instead of the real picture? "

" What I would like to see is a survey done on people in North Dakota who make less the $24,000 per year. We have approxiamtely 650,000 people in our state and I think it would be interesting to know how many are making substandard wages. "

" Funny, but the largest employer in Bisman is actually the state and local government. If you remove all those highly paid, bureaucratic positions, then Bismarck would be very low on the list. Also, as for the Beacon Hill community rankings (or Money Magazine's, Sterling's Best Cities, and others,) they fail to include the time it takes to shove the snow out of the driveway, scrape the windows of the car each morning, and don't forget - All those cars warming up in the driveway is time that should be added to the morning commute, or at least a portion of it.

See what happens when you base a story on limited facts, instead of the big picture? "