Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Residents suggest nickname vote

Residents suggest nickname vote

Dec 10, 2007 - 04:05:09 CST

FORT YATES (AP) - Some members of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe say a tribal vote should be held on the fate of the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname.

"I'm not sure if it would pass or not," Ricky Red Eagle said. "But the answer has to come from the people."

Red Eagle was one of 11 Standing Rock tribal members interviewed by the Grand Forks Herald recently at the tribe's Prairie Knights Casino in Fort Yates.

The Herald said the interviews were arranged by Sam Dupris, an enrolled member of the Cheyenne River, S.D., Sioux Tribe, who is supporting the nickname and is a paid envoy of the privately owned Ralph Engelstad Arena, which holds UND hockey games.

No nickname opponents were invited to the interviews, the Herald said, and none of the people interviewed are members of the Standing Rock tribal council. Most of those interviewed were given a meal and gas money, paid by the arena through Dupris, the Herald said.

Under a settlement with the NCAA, UND has three years to win support of the Fighting Sioux nickname from the state's Sioux tribes. Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse Is Thunder and other tribal leaders have maintained their opposition.

Some of those interviewed by the Herald advocated a reservation-wide referendum after debates in every reservation district. Others suggested a popular vote at meetings of the governing councils of the eight districts, with those results given to the tribal council. One suggested a vote among American Indian students at UND.

Red Eagle, a Vietnam veteran, said he was offended that tribal leaders held a press conference at UND about the nickname instead of speaking on the reservation.

"It's the pettiest thing this tribe has ever had to fight," he said. "There are deeper issues here that we need to work on. The issues aren't over there (in Grand Forks) ... Respectable men gave them that name. Who are these guys to take it away?"

Diane Gates' father, Edward Loon, was part of a Standing Rock tribal delegation that formally gave the University of North Dakota the right to use its UND nickname and logo in 1969.

"I don't see it as offensive to anyone," Diane Gates said of the nickname. "I think it was given out of respect. Sioux people, years ago, worked as a team, they cooperated ... they should respect what my father did ... it's about the bravery to compete, to succeed, to encourage our youth to go to school."

Thelma Shell Track, a former tribal judge, said the nickname represents something honorable about her people.

"We are Fighting Sioux in real life, from way back when," she said. "We're alive now today because we were fighting way back when. We've had to fight for everything we've got."

Those interviewed said tribal council members spend too much time denouncing the nickname and too little time addressing issues on the reservation.

"The logo isn't heating my house," said Mary Louise Defender Wilson, who is in her 80s. She said she often cannot get enough help to fill her propane tank.

"(The logo) is not something we feel strongly about," she said, "so why are our leaders spending so much time on it? They should be doing something to make our lives better at home. They should be Fighting Sioux and fight for better services for us."

Those interviewed said racism will continue with or without the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

News > State

Printer friendly version Residents suggest nickname vote

Comments

Disappointed... wrote on Dec 26, 2007 5:12 PM:

" I am a huge UND hockey fan, I went so far as to become a season ticket holder because of how much fun I had at the games. Not to mention I wear the UND Fighting Sioux logo on a regular basis, but in all reality this fight is really ruining it for those of us who enjoy the game and did respect the heritage behind it. I'm losing that respect more and more because I feel as though I'm being told that because I am white and I'm wearing that logo and supporting that team I am supporting racism on campus, disrespecting an ethnic group, and am undeserving of showing my support. If the Sioux tribe can stand up for what they believe then why can't anyone else when it comes to this matter? There are many comments on all of the local town logo's that are Native American, I hate to say it, but there are white children that now attend those schools, and on a daily basis they are "descriminated" against so to speak, so until the tribal issues and reservation issues can be solved, leave the college alone, they were given permission to use the logo. Fix your big issues before you start ranting and raving about something that really is not an issue. Of all the games I've been to in the last 15 years, the only people who are descriminating are the opposing teams, why don't you sue them instead. But after all this, I'm not so sure I want the logo and support that tribe because of the racial issues they are bringing to the table. You want to take something away from UND because they are dominantly white, isn't that being a bit....racist? This is a very selfish fight. You have to give respect to get it, where I come from its earned. Come on Sioux, earn it! "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 18, 2007 3:19 PM:

" The NCAA speaks for the NCAA. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 18, 2007 12:56 PM:

" Poetic Justice,,,, your arguements are also a joke,,,, NCAA this, NCAA that, since when does the NCAA speak for SR Natives, who allowed them to say what SR Natives needs are,,,, Only reason their involved is because of people like you, the very small portion of Natives who lay in the middle of the street screaming racism, while the rest of us are wondering, "do people actually listen to these characters", I grew up with alot of these anti-logo extremists, i knew them before they were righteous Indians..... any anti-white bandwagon, they were there, didn't matter what race was at the front of it. UND gave your group a window of opportunity to prove how indian you could be, and it didn't matter what good UND had done or was planning to do. Your only concern was, "here's our chance to be real indians, and beat the white people, just like little big horn" and another bandwagon was created. Now all progress that was made with UND is in jeopardy because you few whiners... nobody on the rez thought it would actually come to this, everybody got used hearing your little group off in the distance. The only ones you got fooled are the NCAA, which happens to be the only group that's never visited SR. If they knew the truth of this charade, they would be back stepping real fast..... "

to pathetic justice and proud lakota wrote on Dec 18, 2007 5:14 AM:

" To Pathetic*Justice and proud Lakota; you two see nothing, and act like a virus. No vision, no wanting to progress, and you continue to believe what was done by the treaties can be fully undone by you two. I am sure you parked your vehicles, are now fully clothed in tradishional garb jumped on your steed of choice and are headed to your next appointment, or gathering of sorts. Have you two put any thought of you're going to do once the TRUE people of Standing Rock and Spirit Lake have a VOTE. I too feel the same as voice from the rock, people are truly sick and tired of hearing your little spats about the name, your little spats on genocide, institutional genocide, nick name genocide, poor pitiful me oh cide, I'm not a snake oh cide, custerreemerging Oh Cide, abusive Oh cide. lol This all sounds like it needs some doctor to come and do a diagnosis to determine whether or not theres a virus. lol Next will be, "don't make fun of me OH cide to be followed by, you're not an oh cide thinker. lol Nothing personal ok.. Hang in there, toksa someplace somewhere I am sure there is another OH CIde Virus you can match up with.. ooops almost forgot"brain Oh cide" "

vOIceFROMtheroCK wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:45 PM:

" TO proud native: "sour grapes"... with grapes on your mind,.. you don’t have one of those pink wino noses do you......lol must the only thing you can make a quick reference to. No Grapes here, just a solid SIOUX human...lol Then you write, "you write such childish things” to another blogger.. Guess what I've been reading your blogs...you make reference to others as being childish and you associate yourself to the all knowing and whats best for you is best for the entire SIOUX NATION. I don’t know who pasted proud on you, I hope they aren’t laughing in the background somewhere. The article is about THE PEOPLE...WHO WANT TO HAVE A VOTE ON THIS ISSUE. I believe many many people are sick and tired of this constant come on with the ‘poor pitiful me scenarios”, tired of hearing people making a complete buffoons of themselves and then claim prejudice as the culprit”, your constant vigil and usage of whiny statements of self pity, degradation, dehumanizing, GENoh Cide”, its all nothing but a big joke. There are many who do believe in PRIDE of the culture and heritage. You never hear or see them in public laying in the middle of the street crying of being dehumanized to get attention to themselves. They are right here on the rock completely satisfied with their lives and their way of living, and they too want the best for their children and grandchildren. Again the PEOPLE WANT A VOTE. Once again, no SOUR GRAPES here just a Proud Sioux Indian. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:14 PM:

" Proud Native, that's a good question..... Let me see, 38 years of progress, for one. How many other schools provide for Natives what UND does? I've been hearing your arguments in issues like these for decades, their all the same. I see hypocrites who demand everything, but give nothing. When I compare what UND has done for our people, to what this anti-logo group has done, it's obvious which group is more credible. I hear arguments that UND creates hostile and abusive conditions, then I hear it's the fans from opposing teams chanting "Sioux Suck" and various versions of this, which makes this environment. How different is "Sioux Suck" from "Whomp the Warriors", nobody screaming to change SR mascot are they. We call ourselves Sioux, but yet our chairman compares Sioux to the African American N-word. How moronic is this? I see statistics, 3 out 4 girls are sexually assaulted before they graduate on the rez, and wonder, why is this not an issue? I see deadbeat dads who hide out on the rez to keep from paying child support, I wonder, why isn’t this a issue? I see more suicides and alcohol related deaths in one year on the rez, then I do in a decade for the entire state of ND, and I wonder "why", I can say with most certainty, it has nothing to do with UND. "So why is this logo an issue, and nothing else is", So what do I/We have to lose” ,,idk, maybe, another 100 years of watching our people living in the shadows, while the rest of America progresses. UND should be a tool to enable us to become a stronger independent nation, we shouldn't have to depend on gov. funds/handouts to exist. I believe Chairman Agard had the foresight to predict progress, now that's being undermined because of a few insecure people who take offense to everything. If you want people to take you serious, then your group needs to start practicing what you preach. Right now, your arguments are selfish, hypocritical and redundant. "

Huh wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:50 PM:

" People sure like to dwell on things that happened generations ago. LOL.. There will never be any peace with atitudes like that. Oh Well what can you do. some people just hate. til the need something. "

truth wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:40 PM:

" no it is not true that this site is banned. that is crazy talk. some radical trying to make trouble for the tribe again. "

To Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:38 PM:

" Poetic*Justice, I think you finally said it. For you, this is not about what UND has done or hasn’t done. For you, I believe this is some sort of revenge for events that occurred over 100 years ago. It is hard for me to relate to those events but I believe a lot of injustices did occur. I’m so sorry you are stuck way in the past and feel the need to mislead people in hopes to get your sense of justice or revenge. You have my pity. "

truth wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:27 PM:

" The SRST has not banned this site. that is crazy talk. if they did ban this site in the workplace maybe certain employees were not doing their job and were probably blogging when they should of been working. but I do not believe this is true. I think someone is trying to make trouble again. we do have some radical people down here on the rez. "

LP wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:50 PM:

" i say get rid of the fighting sioux change it to the rough riders. and then remove all of the 31 some programs. Then all the tribes complaing about the logo should pay the 1,000,000 or so to have all the logos removed and pay for other expenises to get ride of other images containg a native head picture in the state that even include the highway signs. Also logos on the rez... with a native should be removed so no one gets offended "

A question, wrote on Dec 17, 2007 4:53 PM:

" Could someone please explain to me why, with 300 native students, we currently have 31 programs specifically targeting that population? It seems to me that contrary to claims by the PC anti-crowd, that UND has been and continues to go above and beyond in providing an education to our native friends. Hostile and abusive? I think not! Of course I do have to wonder how much of the funding for each program is provided by the feds, the sovereign nations, student fees and the state general fund? "

proud Lakota wrote on Dec 17, 2007 4:45 PM:

" SR Sioux: you are very bitter, what have you got to lose?. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 17, 2007 4:10 PM:

" This isn't about everyone "coming together." (It's about 100 years too late for that.) This is about UND being out of compliance with the NCAA. University officials twice appealed the NCAA's decision -- and twice lost. UND then decided to sue the NCAA and lost their ridiculous bid to hang on to the abusive and hostile nickname. So forget about everyone holding hands for a chorus of Kumbaya. UND has lost. UND will comply -- or have its NCAA membership revoked. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 17, 2007 1:36 PM:

" Proud Native; I love having these discussions with you anti-logo people, I find it funny that; how if what you argue is true, that the logo is bad and indians are against it. You would actually support a vote from the people to prove your side of the debate, but instead your argueing against one, so why is that? I'll tell you why, because "YOU KNOW" what the outcome is going to be, SR members are going to support the logo, and all you that have been fighting so vigorously against it, are all going to lose face, and that's just going to eat away your self-esteem even more.... If only your mirror wasn't clouded with your personal identity problems, you would see the truth of this issue, and that is "it is not a issue". We got bigger fish to fry, we shouldn't be complaining about a logo that was already "GIVEN" to UND. If what you say it true,,, then support the vote,, prove me and everybody else wrong..... "

Proud Native wrote on Dec 17, 2007 12:23 PM:

" SR Sioux, you write such childish things. grow up. I do understand though that you are just lashing out. "

My 2Cents wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:32 AM:

" Pretty much all reservations have their poverty problems but then, you can't tell me that off reservation land it isn't the same! I've seen the cardboard cities, I've seen the homeless white people. As soon as white people take care of those 'problems' only then they will have the right to tell native americans to take care of their 'poverty problems'. To Chris: 'All this is is a way for the Natives to try and get back at the white people who supposedly stole there land. I havent heard that one before. GO SIOUX GO SIOUX!!!!!!!! " Maybe, just maybe for some, it's about RESPECT & HONOR. But then again, from your postings, we can tell that you really don't have any idea of what respect means. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:01 AM:

" Proud Lakota: typical response from the losing side of a arguement,,, "sour grapes" "sour grapes" "sour apples" "sour taniga",,,,,,, lol, voicefromtherock,,, good points, why did they go all the way up to UND? oh yeah,,, because thats where the cameras are. None of them have ever done anything on the Rock, especially the shiney one you mentioned. All these years on the council, and nothing accomplished,,, still whining about logos and the black hills.... the only reason he's still in office is because of all the promises he makes, that he can't follow through with, I'm surprised the people from his district havn't got tired of all his pitty-me tatics, and found somebody that will actually do some good. Councilman make what? 40k a year,, so we paid this guy what? over 300K, at least over his time in office. pathetic, all that money invested and wasted on someone who hasn't accomplished anything, sounds more like his job is just for the income and not the welfare of his people. It's no wonder he dosn't want a vote on this logo, all these years of whining and complaining about it,, just think of how he's going lose face. "logo bad, logo bad" "uh oh",,,,, I'm sure the NCAA so going to set a deadline for all white people to leave the Black Hills too.... Dinosaurs politicians with dinosaur ideas..... "

proud native wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:25 AM:

" voice from the rock: "sour grapes" "

sillyRabbit wrote on Dec 16, 2007 10:17 PM:

" Dont get me wrong, I am a proud Sioux Indian, but its times when I see reports like this one that makes wonder why our governments aren't doing enough to straighten out the ills at home. If you get a chance go to this site and check it out http://heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.9.Poverty.USA.htm "

Chris wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:22 PM:

" Native in Bismarck: Yes I have been to graduate school as a matter of fact and am a very succesfull individual. You have no argument really other than the fact that your sticking up for people who are lazy, and worthless. I could care less if you are a Dr. like I said earlier I know succesfull native americans in ND and there good people. You are part of the few who are against the name so you go and preach to the ROCK and the winds or whatever you do. All I am saying is cut the NA funding at UND and kick them all out. All this is is a way for the Natives to try and get back at the white people who supposedly stole there land. I havent heard that one before. GO SIOUX GO SIOUX!!!!!!!! "

Think Again wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:12 PM:

" If the Sioux name is removed, then in a few years, people will ask "Were there really Sioux around here?" "Are there any left?" I am German and would gladly volunteer the name "The Fighting Krauts". Then my heritage would be remembered and lauded. That would be great!! I would think that we should all be so proud to have a college in our state known nationwide as the Fighting Sioux. This is the heritage of North Dakota. Let's own it, embrace it and be proud of it. "

snigLET wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:43 PM:

" In the modern setting, the word SIOUX would be considered a sniglet, in its invention it was invented by a Frenchman and then the US govt, to ID those tribes within the area of the Dakohtas Montana and Minnesota, Nebraska the word was invented after and only after the French referred to the bands of enemy they fought. Now the sub bands that come from the over all reference Identifies each tribal band separate based on the council fire setting. Our fore fathers saw this on the treaty making documents and signed knowing the reference being made to the GREAT SIOUX NATION. Our leaders signed the treaties for us. Now we have a few boneheads proclaiming we aren’t Sioux. GUESS AGAIN, or go have another vision. A questions for-- lol..your comment: " all these message boards are going to slow down now that the tribe has banned this site " Is that true the SRST tribe banned this site? "

AvOIceFROMtheroCK wrote on Dec 16, 2007 6:51 PM:

" TO proud to be native: nothing personal against anybody. I'm just not blind or one to look the other way when things aren’t done the right way, just for you info, I did not bad mouth anyone. I just gave my statement. If cheesy and shiny is bad mouthing someone, then don’t let the truth bother you. One other thing, I don’t think you voted out the DO NOTHING council persons.. The shiniest and cheesiest one of all was in grand forks. Look at what was accomplished in all the years of his being in office. This UND issue should have been dealt with by HEW years ago. Another thing, when you have a non vet, one who refused to serve his country and uses the excuse, my dad served so I didn’t have to. Is one of the lamest excuses for a man? Now proud to be lakota I'm sure you served to right. One of our greatest chairmen to serve SR made this agreement; he was a true man/warrior/akicita and leader who served our nation and the United States in combat. He had the foresight that all great leaders are gifted with, and so he made an agreement, now 3 politicians who never served are going against what has been accomplished for over 30 plus years. Of the three that went to grand forks, NONE can ever stand shoulder the shoulder with AJ Agard; he was a leader amongst leaders. If you put all four together in a room, and was made to choose, I would choose and I would follow Agard, his record of service speaks for itself. . .nothing personal ok. Don’t spazz or go righteous native on me, you have an opinion I have my facts to look at. Once again nothing personal. "

bornSIOUX81 wrote on Dec 16, 2007 3:27 PM:

" Yes here we go again. I don't know why our Tribal Leaders are soo worried about the Fighting SIoux nickname/logo when they should be worried about the welfare of their people. Maybe thats what we get when we voted in out greatest Chairman things took a turn for the worse. I lived on Campus @ UND and found it to be to most beautiful place I have ever seen, and when I look at how the have the Fighting Sioux name/logo everywhere I think of how lucky I am to be a part of that. I have alot of friends that are athletes and they use the name with pride at the games it is the most incredible experience and Sioux member would love to feel. Like this guys said in the Teton Times alot of our best Doctors and other graduates finished at UND. And UND has done alot for our people. I wonder why our leaders don't let the people decide they always have to says whats best for us why can't we make the decisions? I plan on going back to UND because I don't want my kids to grow up on this reservation when our leaders don't care about the welfare of our people. My kids always tell me the want to go to school at UND and play for the Sioux I think that is soo awesome. Come on now people leave the name alone and fight for more important things our people need you. Next year I am going back to Grand Forks and you'll see me at a UND football game and yes I will be cheering GO SIOUX!! "

sad about bickering wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:13 PM:

" SR Sioux: you continue to bad mouth people. the bitterness will eat away at you like a cancer. stop your bickering and help your people out instead of saying they should do this they should do that. if your so interested in the people run for office next time. stop worrying about that logo. do something. do some volunteer work. let our higher power handle this. if it is meant to be then it will happen if it isn't meant to be then so be it. "

Bigotry, racism, evil? wrote on Dec 16, 2007 10:00 AM:

" Bigotry, racism, and evil. These words stir a lot of negative emotions in people. When I look for why these words should be attached to UND, I fail to make the connection. I do not detect anything other than respect for Native American by UND and I do not believe UND condones any behaviors that degrade others period. If UND stops using their current logo and stops using the phase "Fighting Sioux", how would this improve anything for Native Americans? If UND continues to use this logo and phrase, how can they do so in a way that would be more honorable and respectful than it currently is? "

What the NCAA saids wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:26 AM:

" Poetic*Justice, if all you want is for UND to follow the rules and principals of the the NCAA, you should be happy. The NCAA made the following statement recently. "The NCAA recognizes the University of North Dakota's many programs and outreach services to the Native American community and surrounding areas. The University of North Dakota is a national leader in offering educational programs to Native Americans. The University has indicated that it intends to use the current name and logo with the utmost respect and dignity, and only for so long as it may do so with the support of the Native American community. The NCAA does not dispute UND's sincerity in this regard." "

proud to be native wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:22 AM:

" I believe voice from the rock just has something personal against the three people who went to Grand Forks. I do not believe it has anything to do with the logo. your always bad mouthing people. I believe we voted out the council people who were doing nothing for us. "

Smoke on the water wrote on Dec 16, 2007 8:04 AM:

" To: OSAGE... aho.. Kola. lol. We are the fighting sioux, we didn't sell out and we don't need to look for an identity to cling to, on top of all that, we have our own nation we've been fighting for. The issue isn't in this article. The matter already received its fair share of bashing and now you want to make light of it. All said and done, we create the world we live in and adjust to it as it changes. Mother nature/The Great Spirit as you put it, dictates what we will receive, adjustments and changes made to our environment have been fought against for decades, and we will continue to fight. You are right, it is important. "

AvOIceFROMtheroCK wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:45 AM:

" When you read the blogs, you'll see that no matter what kind of positive is brought up, there are those few who want everyone to think negative and make statements like there's " A buy off", "a Sell out" they aren't Indian, "they are colonized so they don't know anything", "those elders who went to und in 69 we're uneducated", "they're put a referendum on genocide". I heard all the statements and arguments, and none make any sense to make a good case, a good solid case that is. The ones who went to the Grand Fork's HUMAN RIGHTS meeting was a rehearsed and staged publicity stunt. There wasn't a need for the 3 from SR to attend to make more racial remarks; Because, the tribe already passed a resolution to oppose the name, tend of story. In reading the tribal minutes, nothing delegated this group to go to Grand Forks. In other words there was NO NEED for them to stand in front of the camera's all cheesy and shiny degrading another race to make a point. There's nothing in the resolution that says these select 3 were delegated by the Tribal Council to attend any meetings or to make statements on behalf of the tribe. I'm sure all 3 used tribal funds and had the signature from the chairman authorizing travel to support his agenda. No real emphasis being put on the issues here on the rock. There are many issues that need attention and much needed improvement. Let the people VOTE. After all, this is their nation, their government and their heritage you're complaining about. When the vote is taken, not one of you will be able to come up with a GOOD SOLID reason, a real reason for the name to be dropped. You bring up prejudice with no real point, play on emotions using what you say is your experience. In one breath you state change the name, and the next breath state, we continue to keep ours.. no sense in that is there? "

To Anonymous wrote on Dec 16, 2007 6:09 AM:

" If only 5 people who would be eligible vote are for allowing UND to keep the name, then wouldn't a vote make that point clear and help bring this issue to a close much quicker? "

lol wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:17 AM:

" all these message boards are going to slow down now that the tribe has banned this site "

Kraut wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:12 AM:

" AH! AH! Dakotah This is most certainly true, But you swung north again. "

just keep reading wrote on Dec 15, 2007 11:47 PM:

" we are not SIOUX, we are not snakes. in tribal politics what is going to happen? remember the politics. there has to be a next move down the line. it is politics. "

SR Sioux, wrote on Dec 15, 2007 11:46 PM:

" It's called being educated, something beyond your comprehension, lol, "he sounds like a white man, "you write like a third grader",,,, I can see I found those few ucisca natives I mentioned.... the people are speaking, and will continue too. Unlike you, I have friends with pride and the mental fortitude to overcome simpleminded prejudices from any race, including our own. My friends will be standing by me through rain, snow, hurricanes or whatever else you fossils think you can throw at us. In the end, the extremists will still be the insecure illiterate disillusioned round da forters their ancestors were. The extremist's era is coming to an end, and we can see it, hear it, taste it, and when the vote is finally tallied, we'll be feeling it too. For the rest of their days, they'll continue to wonder why their still standing with their hands out, while the rest of Native America is thriving..... Real Natives know your kind, come on these blogs and try to trick everyone into thinking that you're voices for our people, Standing Rock Natives would laugh you out of the room back on the rez, we see you coming a mile away. Rally around your three talking heads, soon they'll be gone too. The real sell outs are the ones who complain about everything, but are the first ones with their hands out when anything is given away for free. "Hypocritical Sellouts" Our ancestors would never complain about a logo that they gave permission to use, when 90% of their people couldn't support themselves. When our elders went cold in the winters, or their women & children were abused and forgotten. You extremists are the reason Natives still live in these conditions, you do nothing but complain about things you have no control over..... "a logo" how pathetic,,,,, "

Anonymous wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:11 PM:

" The ones who want the vote are supporters of the name and why are only a few people who number only about five bringing up the issue. The media is making it out like the whole Tribe wants to vote on the issue when it is only a few people who have been paid by UND to gather support. To those few sell outs you should be more like your ancestors and not like the sell outs that you are. "

dakotah person wrote on Dec 15, 2007 5:32 PM:

" to Kraut: you should follow your own advice and clean your own house before you tell us how to clean ours. you don't know us. "

To Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 15, 2007 2:43 PM:

" I guess your answer is "no", you do not want to bring people together. Apparently you have a keen eye for evil and see much more than most others possibly can. Are you sure you are not becoming what you seem to despise the most? By the way, my impression of UND is that they do embrace diversity. "

Lost wrote on Dec 15, 2007 2:02 PM:

" Whatever way this goes? I will be glad that it is over. But racism probably will not. For if in our society it is alright for one group to use a name or mascot or logo. And not another. That is racism. If one culture of people is aloud to say things and other cultures are not. That is racism. For as long as we have to state our ethnic background on an application. We are a raciest nation. Someday we will move on, and be able to solve the problems for all us. We need to stop individualizing ourselves. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:42 PM:

" Why would I want to bring good people together with evil? It's clear from the steadfast refusal of so many North Dakotans to appreciate the aggregious violations done to an entire race of people that they have no intention of trying to right their wrongs and "come together." What I want is for UND to obey the rules and principles set forth in the NCAA's charter concerning diversity. I want UND to stop fighting and complaining -- stop whining and begging to continue on with their offensive, racist, bigotry and nonsense. "

To CAIP and P*J wrote on Dec 15, 2007 9:00 AM:

" C.A.I.P and Poetic*Justice, both of you seem to be self proclaimed leaders against racism. You both appear to know historical fact better than everyone else and you both are apparently clairvoyant as you seem to know everyone else's thoughts, background, feelings, and motives. I see a lot of us versus them in your writings. I'm curious if either of you have any positive suggestions on how to bring people together instead of further dividing us. That is what you want too, right? "

Kraut wrote on Dec 15, 2007 8:30 AM:

" The good people of the SR nation need to go to the border of the res. Stand and scream at UND, then do a 180 and look within their own borders. My grandmother always said clean your own house before running to some other house to clack you tongue. "

C.A.I.P. wrote on Dec 14, 2007 8:32 PM:

" TAG that jersey you"re wearing doesn't have a thing to do with culture. Just athletics. You're pride is only with the UND sports teams. You don't have a clue in what a Dakotah really is. No two elders can give permission to UND to use the whole Dakotah Nation as a mascot. Let go of your Hollywood and your John Wayne definitions and negative stereotypes. Why don't you let the Dakotas name your school after some of you're heroes. I'll let you guys pick the names. If you need us to help screen and edit them, we'll be more than happy to assist you. Just make it appropriate( reflecting you're history) Be nice now!!! "

SRST wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:47 PM:

" I think that the names of Sioux City, Sioux Falls are no different from the UND-Fighting-Sioux name, change one,change them all. "

Poetic*Justice wrote on Dec 14, 2007 5:07 PM:

" A century of institutionalized racism, prejudice and bigotry is a REAL problem. "

last sane person alive wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:39 PM:

" alot of people seem to think if you go to school somewhere what ever the nickname is has to be comprised of the students going there?????? so would only a deamon be able to go to Bismarck High? what about all the poor animals that get taken advantage of too who is fighting for them What a sad society if this crap is worth bringing up "

Home of the Sioux wrote on Dec 14, 2007 10:56 AM:

" I've got a few questions that I would like to have answered: 1. Since the word "respect" has been used more than once, isn't there a level of disrespect for the elders that gave UND permission in the first place to use the name? 2. Am I wrong in my understanding that it appears to be a few tribal leaders that are against the logo/nickname rather than the majority of the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes? 3. After the nickname is defeated, which it appears that it will be, then now what? Will the tribal leaders focus on the issues that are affecting their own people or will they just go back to doing nothing? "

To Osage from tommy wrote on Dec 14, 2007 7:12 AM:

" Well put.. lets concentrate on more important issues. If there was this much energy put into "real" problems we would all be living in a better world---together. "

Osage wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:16 PM:

" To Smoke on the Water: But what about Ft. Yates being high and dry? Was it the Great Spirit or was it the rich barge owners in St. Louis? It affects the tribe doesn't it? More than the Fighting Sioux logo. "

SE Forty wrote on Dec 13, 2007 6:44 PM:

" He talks like a white man- SR Sioux- stop making trouble and go back to your so called "FRIENDS" You will see how good these friends are when the "RAIN " starts. "

TAG wrote on Dec 13, 2007 6:25 PM:

" To be honest I'm a HUGE Fighting Sioux fan and would be devastated if the name would be dropped. I'm white and have numerous Fighting Sioux apparel items, and when I wear them I feel a great amount of pride. I don 't wear them to put down the Sioux, I wear them because I know the Sioux are part of ND's history. And since I've lived in ND all my live I'm proud of any and all aspects of OUR history. I'm also proud of UND and the success it has had in molding minds of all races. My wish is that the people of the Sioux nation can ALL have a vote, not just what the big wigs say, but all Sioux members. If it passes,,, GREAT, If not I would be devastated. Either way I will continue to wear w/ pride my Fighting Sioux apparel. "

happy lakota wrote on Dec 13, 2007 4:56 PM:

" S.R. Sioux, you are so bitter. your always complaining. why are you always speaking for the majority?. be happy. "

Pronative wrote on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM:

" The people have spoken, through their elected officials, just the way the whiteman wanted the Native American to run their tribal governments! The tribal council has spoken and the UND's mascot projecting a false Indian is gone! Long live the Native American! "

Tommy wrote on Dec 13, 2007 4:35 PM:

" Let the people speak.. Did you notice that the Arena is privately owned.. That means that it could very well go away if we loose the name.. It is not only the nicest college hockey arena in the USA but possibly the nicest hockey arena in the world. lets not chance this. "

Smoke on the water wrote on Dec 13, 2007 4:29 PM:

" To C.A.I.P. ....Stay focused.....on the article nothing in here about a dam or anything concerning the river....ok... "

LP wrote on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM:

" If the American Indians don't want to be remeber, then get rid of all the logos that picture an Indian on highway signs to schools and even on the reservations. And UND should Use the Rough Riders and Teddy roosevelt for the school, and then remove all of the class that start with Indian. Or technicaly the Natives are really not native to america, because they are decendents of people from siberea because of the whole ice land bridge. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 13, 2007 9:33 AM:

" Brian E. the objection comes from a very small portion of Natives who jump on any bandwagon that could possibly be a Red vs. White issue. People who's personality flaws a revealed in issues like these. They believe that by winning this debate, will somehow give the Native race some victory over the white. It has nothing to do with the UND mascott. They'll use words like genocide, degrading, detrimental, any dramatic word that instills a sense of pitty. The majority of people on SR have enough pride to not reduce themselves to these overly sensative few, and that is why you're hearing so much from Natives that are in support of the logo. It has nothing to do with divide and conquer, our people have never been united, SR is comprised of seven bands of Sioux that where all pushed onto this reservation. The majority of people on SR "from all the different bands" see the benefits from working with UND for the future of our youth. If any of you get a chance to pick up a teton times "SR Newspaper", every week you'll find tribal members speaking out against the anti-logo panel, people are getting tired of this living in the past attitude. "

Brian E. wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:06 PM:

" It must be obvious to most readers that there is substantial objection to the name at this point in time, and that the solution is to end it. Pull that weed and let it die. Otherwise, this bickering could continue indefinitely. However, a new name will be needed. What would that be? Roughriders? There are too many potential jokes there to make that a serious option. What else? The UND Magpies? I suppose then PETA could protest. Someone, help me, please. "

C.A.I.P. wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:49 PM:

" MRS. DEFENDER. be glad you have some heat now because in the very near future, you will have no water for heat. Thanks to the Garrison Dam and the Army Corp of Engineers. There is more water in Mandan at the new boat docks than there is on the Standing Rock Rez. As for the Standing Rock Warriors and the Belcourt Braves. These are names they chose with their definitions. We use a virtue and value system that defines what a true Warrior or Brave is today. The Wasicus made us fighters. We were initially defenders of our country. We fought for our ancesters. Think about this Mrs. Shell Track. And what does Viet Nam has to do with this Mr. Red Eagle (aka Mclaughlin) Mr. Dupris, you are bought and paid for. You are of no help to the Dakotah people. "

Just a thought. wrote on Dec 12, 2007 3:16 PM:

" At first I was thinking who are they to say we can't use this name? Then thought again and wondered why does anyone care? I don't know I want a name that represents native americans. This state is mostly white. We made it something , lets name it after our heritage not theirs or what its become. "

unbelievable wrote on Dec 12, 2007 2:26 PM:

" the ncaa hasn't stirred up anything, they have put an end to it. my goodness the governor and congressional representatives. the country is in the dumps, 10 million dollars a day fighting tin soldiers, an economy that is as stable as the war and were arguing about ending a racially motivating emblem which degrades any man, woman or child that disagrees with it. we have serious problems in this world economy, end our short mindedness and put this thing to rest. "

I think: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:36 PM:

" I think the NCAA should have never started this craziness!!!! Shame on them for stirring up all this trouble! "

keith wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:18 AM:

" Mr. Ron (His Horse Is Thunder) McNeal and David Gipp, two of the major people trying to keep the name have stated that they want to bring the Tribe into todays world. The nick name no longer represents who the Sioux people are. They want to bring the people into the 21st century but before you can do that you must stop living in the past. In the present, people work and provide for themselves and their family. They don't look for excuses why they can't do it and they don't accept hand outs for something they haven't earned. When given a hand up you make it happen and grow. Speaking from experience, I am SIOUX and for what my people have become, I am ashamed. "

Native in Bismarck wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:05 AM:

" To Chris: Wrong again wise one. I don't need to return to my reservation as I do more than just fine in your wonderful world Chris. Ever been to college or graduate school? I am an educated Native working as a professional in your world and doing great. "

S.R. Dakota wrote on Dec 12, 2007 8:22 AM:

" "sour grapes" "

To SE Forty wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:59 AM:

" Don't be so over the top. "Bribed" by a meal and gas money. First off, these people went to PK already knowing how they felt about the logo. They went there to share that with the media. I am sure they were not lured there with "free food and gas". Second, the divide and conquer argument used by logo opponents does not work considering you have to be united first. This is especially true at UND were you are treated differently by your own people if you are not "anti logo". Exaggerated comments and attitudes like yours do the dividing. "

Lakota wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:09 PM:

" I agree with SE FORTY. lets not let the local nickname supporters buy us with their casino meal and gas money. they are trying to divide us. I for one will not be bought. I still stand behind the tribal leaders decision. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:02 PM:

" So by your logic, keep kicking and screaming until people feel sorry for you, that seems to be the common theme from your side of the debate. I was taught never to expect pitty from anybody. My identity has nothing to do with UND or Mandan or any other mascott. I'm secure with myself and don't need to prove that point. I guess our former leaders didn't know what they were doing when giving permission, so in your opinion, they gave away our identity, I'm sure SR members would disagree with you. You probably don't know anything about the men that gave our permission. They where great leaders both on and off the reservations. Highly decorated soldiers, served in more than one U.S. conflict. Not one of these members of the anti-logo panel ever served. Got some advise for you, don't think you'll ever have any control over anyone elses actions, if people choose to be racist, it is only up to them to change that mindset. I don't see how changing the mascott isn't going to affect that. Im starting to get the feeling this is more of a "red vs. white" issue, and has nothing to do with the UND logo. Too many hypocritical attitudes, with no logic behind their arguements. I think I found my side of the debate now. "

To SR Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 5:24 PM:

" So following your logic that there will always be racism...then you are saying that we should not even try to make the world less racist. Should we just say "oh well, hit me again; I guess you just won't stop." And about your retort about the Vikings: no one today says they are a Viking. It really is different, But, it is your choice to believe that your identity as a person is wrapped up in a university nickname and to think you won't be as good as you are if it is changed. "

Home of the Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:46 PM:

" The "elders" gave UND the right to use the "Fighting Sioux" moniker in 1969 and now a couple of tribes in North Dakota want to take it back. I now understand how the term "Indian giver" came to be. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:03 PM:

" Reality Check: So I guess it's wrong that African Americans play on the Minnesota Vikings football team then. Arn't they pretending to be Norweigan, something their not? Or the Mandan Braves, closer to home than UND, I lived in SR most of my life, I have never heard of their logo being offensive. So a nationally known college team, who we have already gave permission to use the name, is all of a sudden in the spotlight. Makes me wonder "why them". I find it distasteful that racism still exist, but I think we all can agree, that it's never going to end. Especially when I know racism is alive and well on SR. idk, guess we're going to eventually find out what this whole charade going to bring. I can say for a fact, that I know alot of people from SR that are in support of the name, and I only know of a handful that are in opposition. So maybe the best thing, is to listen to the elders, and have a vote. "

Reality Check wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:08 PM:

" Most students at UND are not Indian. Most students at Standing Rock are Indian. The whites are pretending to be something they are not. They have refused to listen. They have refused - until the NCAA stepped in - to even deal respectfully with the tribes. Standing Rock and UND are very different. It is really obvious, "

Garryowen's? wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:18 PM:

" Let’s change the name to the Garryowen’s. That would really stir the compost. "

Common Sense wrote on Dec 11, 2007 11:23 AM:

" SR Sioux: I agree. Hypocrisy surrounds this entire debate, and every party is guilty of it. It's hypocritical to complain of whites making and breaking deals and then going back on the permission that was given to UND to use the name so many years ago. It's hypocritical to blame whites for the logo - if it's a racist logo, it's racism of the Ojibwe artist who designed it. It's hypocritical of the NCAA to single out UND. It's hypocritical of other schools to refuse to play UND because of the nickname, unless of course it would help their rankings to keep playing against the UND hockey team. It's hypocritical of the white UND students who protest the nickname to do so without even knowing if any of their friends are Sioux. And most of all, it's hypocritical for everyone to argue about the UND nickname and turn a blind eye to the real racism and real problems that are out there. "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 10:51 AM:

" SE Forty, read the other comments I posted little ways down the page, I was at the meeting and it wasn't what you are assuming... "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:31 AM:

" I'm a Standing Rock Warrior, what I don't understand is that we had to deal with racism right here in our own district and region by local opponents, we had "Dirty Indians Go Back To the Rez" spraypainted on our bus while away to a sporting event. We had to deal with comments from fans of other teams all the time, I never got offended when the opposing team chanted "whomp the warriors", "whip the warriors" etc. It was just part of the game.... So what I'm asking, is if removing this UND logo because it is degrading and is detrimental to the self-esteem of our youth. Shouldn't the SR Warriors logo be removed to. The racism that's close to home is going to effect our youth, more than from GF. There's too many hypocritical arguements in this debate. "

SE Forty wrote on Dec 11, 2007 8:06 AM:

" To the people of Standing Rock- You are falling for a Tactic that has been used for a long time "Divide and Conquer" Don't let them "pay you some gas money and a meal" This issue should not divide you. Tell your leaders what you want but do it when you are not getting "Bribed " by the supporters of this nickname issue. If your leaders are not doing what the majority wants then vote them out. Stop fighting against each other and make a decision and then live with it. I am not of your tribe but I am Native. "

Jerry wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:12 AM:

" Maybe the white leaders of UND and the State of North Dakota should spend more time on other things than insisting that UND get to keep its logo against the wishes of our Indian neighbors. The UND alumni and wealthy ones have spent over $2 MILLION on this. Just think of the actual real education that could have paid for. But, no, these white guys HAVE to save their nasty logo. They really should grow up and move on, don't you think!?? What a waste of time and money. Do any of the white leaders at UND still care about education???????? "

Minot Resident wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:05 PM:

" One thing that needs to be heavily considered if a vote of this nature is to take place is to include enrollees of Sioux Tribes that reside off the reservations. Our vote should be just as "official" as anyone else. It is reassuring to see residents letting their voices be heard. As stated, the elected members of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe need to concentrate and I mean concentrate on the more important issues that affects the tribe on a daily basis. This issue goes deeper than just being elected into a political position. Boundaries need to be drawn out on what a council can really act on and what they can't for the sake of the people. "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" "

Dakota Heart in MN wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:24 PM:

" My statement is in regards to MIKE's comment about paying a franchise fee to the Sioux people...Get real. UND already has made available diversity waivers for Native Americans, which are funded in large part by...you guessed it...sports proceeds and the use of the logo. Check your facts. I suggest that IF UND is forced to change their name and logo, then maybe they should consider how they fund the waiver also. No proceeds = No Scholarships. You can't fish in an empty lake. "

nicknames wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:13 PM:

" My prediction is if you take away all the "offensive" Native American nicknames, there are people who will forget those groups even exist. The tribe gave the name to UND in the first place. Now it wants to take it away. Isn't there some way to get a permanent agreement, that won't come back in a generation or so with another argument about it? Besides, the only reason the NCAA got worked up about "offensive" nicknames is because someone with a lot of money couldn't quite take on the major leagues. So, the Washington Redskins will stay, the Cleveland Indians will stay. The fight will never end. "

To Diane and Rick & others wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:56 PM:

" RESPECT is known amongst these (Diane, Rick & others) people. RESPECT must be given to the ones before us who decided to encourage UND to be allowed to use this logo. The young ones today, do not remember Mr. Agard and Mr. Loon, these men were our leaders at one time and humanistic ones at that!! There was no greed when it came to them. Oh, Yes, Mr. Tom Black Hoop was another man of humbleness and cared for the people. You young ones who are educated, do some research and ask about these exemplenary men who were before you and find out what their experience was concerning this. AND the present ones need to look at the drastic needs of the present day issues. LIKE drugs, elder abuse, child abuse, alcoholism, violence against women, children and the community, and HEALTH issues. This is your job. jyw "

Chris wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:32 PM:

" It sounds like to me the majority of the people responding are native americans. Go Figure! you people would complain if you found a gold nugget because you would say it is to small. I cant wait for UND to name there sports teams the Fighting Caucasins because that is what it should be. All of you people who are against the Fighting sioux logo should not be allowed to attend any UND athletics games because you are not a loyal fan. As far as it being hard to be a minority in North Dakota that is all what you make it Native in Bismarck. I think that maybe you should just stick to the reservation if you think its so bad and you have it so tough I have no pitty for you people. I know alot of successful Native Americans in ND and they became succesfull because they didnt sit around like most other ones and want people to feel sorry for them. You have just an equal opportunity as the white man to go out and get a job and an education so dont give me that cuz that is an easy way out of having to do ANYTHING! I think that we need to get more people to back UND up and support the current logo. GO SIOUX GO SIOUX GO SIOUX!!!!!!!!!! AND ONCE AGAIN GO FIGHTING SIOUX! "

Logic wrote on Dec 10, 2007 7:03 PM:

" The poster named "Home of the Sioux" just helped make the case for why the nickname is hostile and abusive. There are threats of retaliation by non-Indians who are "passionate" about being a "Fighting Sioux" at UND. Some are suggesting that elders should not stand up, but should cower in fear of that retaliation. You know, a person (or a people) should not have to be afraid of those who say they are honoring you. So, the conclusion is that UND Fighting Sioux is, in fact, not an honor, but it is the spoils of defeating the Indians in battle. "

Haze wrote on Dec 10, 2007 6:57 PM:

" CHANGE the name already!! Haven't people hashed this over a million times already? "

Fact Check wrote on Dec 10, 2007 6:55 PM:

" The Standing Rock Warriors are very different than the UND situation. That is a nickname for who goes to that school and the people who are there are talking about themselves. At UND 98% of students are NOT Native American. SOMEBODY ELSE is using the identity. That identity is not yours to play with for athletic fun. And besides, those thinking it is so great to be an Indian on the hockey rink then turn around and do not hire, speak to, or have anything to do with real Indians in real life after college. The whole thing is a sham. Posts here and in other places show that there is an bubbling ugly attitude by white North Dakotans towards Indians. "How dare them spoil our fun!!" It really is time to grow up and change. "

Home of the Sioux wrote on Dec 10, 2007 5:53 PM:

" All I'm saying to you, Logic, is that it would be naive to think that if the name is changed that there wouldn't be any sort of animosity towards Native Americans over this issue. I don't agree with it nor do I condone that kind of behavior, but those people that are very passionate over this issue and do not want the name changed, who do you think their going to point the finger at? Yes, it's sad that type of behavior still exists in society but maybe that is something the "elders" should consider when making such a huge decision as this one. Lastly, don't make this into a "David and Goliath" type of issue as I don't believe that this issue is worthy of that type of response. "

kev wrote on Dec 10, 2007 5:43 PM:

" Where are the complaints about the standing rock warriors? I think that nickname distastefully portrays Native Americans. It seems like tribal leader want their cake and eat it too by not focusing on all nicknames that might be offensive to native people including their own school's nickname. "

To Karen and here we go again wrote on Dec 10, 2007 5:05 PM:

" How has the name "Fighting Sioux" led to "friends and neighbors without sufficient means to take care of themselves and those around them?" UND has given more opportunity to Native Americans than any university in the nation. UND has educated countless N.A.'s in Medicine and Law that would not have had the opportunity to gain entrance to any other school. At this point I say change the name and pull all native programs. If it is disrespectful to use the name it must to disrespectful to continue to treat native american students differently. "

sad situation at UND wrote on Dec 10, 2007 4:23 PM:

" I am very concerned about the accusations of racism on the UND campus since how many lawsuits have been brought forward regarding racism? Why is it that I still have student loans that I am paying for since I am not Native American I didn't have the opportunity to apply for a tuition waiver at UND (they call it cultural diversity waiver at BSC) and since UND is handing out free tuition then I think that using the SIOUX name is fitting. I see that there are multiple opportunities for Native Americans to apply for funding for college in ND and since I grew up here in ND I wish that I had the option to have 50% or 100% of my college education paid for. I found by doing a search for Native American Tuition there are a lot of programs that can be utilized, while me a single parent with a child that will be going to college in a few years will not be able to have these same opportunities because we are not Native American but we were born and raised in ND!!! "

Logic wrote on Dec 10, 2007 4:12 PM:

" Let's see, you say they are respecting Indians and life at UND is just peachy keen for everyone. You say there are few if any problems with racism at UND. But, you say just keep quiet and don't make waves or make the masters angry. If we make them angry then those nice respectable people all of a sudden will carry out an ugly "backlash" and be racist towards Indians. And, you say, that would not have anything to do with racism that exists today, right??? Some people go through life afraid. Others stand up and be who they are and say I get to define who I am and what my culture is. And being a sports team logo is pretty condecending. "

Wait a minute wrote on Dec 10, 2007 3:59 PM:

" No one said people were paid to COME to a meeting. Dupre is PAID to recruit people to the Engelstad Arenas' campaign to overturn the Tribal Council resolutions. Another tricky way for the powers that be to get their way by making divisions big enough to divide and conquer. It is truly a sad day. The well-funded Engelstad Arena and UND should drop it and change the name. "

My 2Cents wrote on Dec 10, 2007 3:48 PM:

" Maybe Standing Rock and Spirit Lake should take a look at what agreement(s) the Seminole Tribe has in Florida. "

Mike wrote on Dec 10, 2007 3:16 PM:

" I think they should keep the nickname and pay a franchise fee every year to the Sioux people that will keep everyone happy. 1 million dollars a year to go for heating assistance first then schools and infrastructure. "

Home of the Sioux wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:51 PM:

" Common Sense makes a great point! I gradutated from UND and the racism that many talk about experiencing, I did not see at UND. Approximately 300 Native American students are enrolled at UND. The sad reality is that if the name gets changed one could potentially expect to see an even greater backlash of "racism" against the Native American community that they claim they are currently experiencing. For the record, I do NOT condone or support racism against Native Americans, but I feel that the impending name change in the long run will do more harm than good for Native American students at UND. "

Sioiux FOREVER! wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:27 PM:

" I sincerely hope that if these PC do-gooders get their way and force UND to dump the Fighting Sioux name and logo that the Engelstads implode the Ralph Engelstad Arena and the Betty Engelstad Sports Complex and leave the University with a heaping pile of rubble, then turn their backs on the school permanently. "

Nick wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:24 PM:

" I think it is time to move on and let UND keep their nickname. Maybe Mandan, Four Winds, Ft. Yates, Belcourt and others should all drop their terrible derrogatory nicknames too? I think it's an honor to the Native Americans to be remebered at a fine educational institution as UND. We have other more important things to worry about and spend money on that this. MOVE ON!!! "

SR Sioux wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:59 PM:

" I heard about this meeting through a friend, said representatives from UND wanted to speak with people that supported the logo, if anybody had anything they wanted to share, they should go to PKC. There wasn't anything said about giving money or a meal, after I arrived is when Mr. Dupree said if you want to eat, you can. He asked if anybody needed help with gas money, I along with my friend both said no thanks, and I had already ate, so I didn't take the meal either. The other people that came didn't know anything about it either. The majority of people that showed up where elders, I think Mr Dupree was only trying to be respectful by offer them something. I can't say how many people took him up on his offers, but I know all didn't. All had good things to say about this issue, it was good hearing from the elders perspective, none of them appeared ucica and needed gas money or a meal. All had concerns about our youth, and what is going to happen to them. I'm still undecided about the issue, but to see all the assumptions on this page that these where boughten opinions is just disrespectful, the people that showed up had genuine concerns and thought provoking ideas. "

Old Trick wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:35 PM:

" In any group there are always those who will be willing to "get" someone else, especially if there is money behind organizing the effort -- like the Engelstad Arena is paying Dupre to search and recruit people to do on Standing Rock. With the Engelstad Arena's deep deep pockets, they are a good bet to "win" this making sure the nickname issue is an even bigger, nastier issue on the reservation. Nice work, guys. Are you going to pay Mary Louise's heating bill? "

Calendar Watcher wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:51 PM:

" To Chris: You make some good points, but you're at least seven years behind times. This is the 21st Century. Any local merchant will be glad to give you a calendar. "

whoknowswhocares wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:50 PM:

" To just a thought. The answer to your questions is no. But it won't make any difference. If you look at the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe as a business, it is probably one of the largest in the area. But the only part of it that makes for a successful business is Prairie Knights Casino. And altho the Tribe owns it they do not run it. They hire management for that task. Their manager is a member of their tribe. Maybe running the tribe should be looked at the same way. A business that will not keep going unless it is run efficiently. But then again if it is ever run from a political standpoint it will probably close in a few years. "

My 2Cents wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:39 PM:

" Sounds to me like this is splitting the tribal members against each other. Maybe that's what was wanted when the judge outlined the three year wait. We all know that governments change their stances, whether it's tribal or other. We also know that people can be bought too! "

Real wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:34 PM:

" Use of the nickname and logo by UND is a case of identity theft. "

Here we go again wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:28 PM:

" If I were paid all expenses by a $100 million group (the Engelstad Arena), I could foment divisiveness too. Whites with power have funded divide and conquer in Indian Country for centuries. Here we go again! When are we going to learn? Our fun at sports events do NOT have to come at the expense of a group of our neighbors. It is downright nasty that we insist that Indians fight it out among themselves over a nickname. It is time to STOP and change the name. "

Common Sense wrote on Dec 10, 2007 12:11 PM:

" Independent Conservative missed my point slightly. If you take away the nickname issue by changing the name and logo, then another, even more pointless, debate will spring up to take its place. There is a parallel here to political correct terminology. Whether we call a person a First People, a Native American, an American Indian, a Lakota, or just a regular American Joe, does it make any difference in the world other than making the people who call him that feel better about it? No, it does not. Changing the name of UND's teams will really only serve to change the words in the debates, not the reasons for the debates. Ms. Wilson will still be cold in the winters, the same Indians will blame the whites as are doing so now, and the same whites will still be protesting Indian issues that they don't understand because it makes them feel good about saving the world without actually having to lift a finger. If you want to work together as Americans, you have to do some actual work. Sticks and stones... "

Native in Bismarck wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:53 AM:

" To Chris: Sounds like you have no idea what it is like to walk around with colored skin in this world. People do cry racism over menial little things sometimes when it isn't necessary, but how dare you act like you know anything about what being a minority is like. Sometimes people are scrutinized when shopping in stores for no reason. Sometimes citizens get no help from their local law enforcement because of the color of their skin. As for this issue, I agree with this article. There are better/more worthy things to worry about on Standing Rock than whether or not someone is using your label. "

friend wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:44 AM:

" Exactly, there are more serious problems at Spirit Lake Reservation near Devils Lake, and obviously by this article, at Standing Rock, that need to and should be addressed then this pitiful arguing over the logo. "

NDr wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:37 AM:

" The leaders of Standing Rock and Spirit Lake have finally convinced me too. It's finally become clear to me that the Sioux name has no honor and is actually demeaning. I can't believe that the two tribes in the state haven't changed their names yet. So, I agree with the others that feel that UND should get a new mascot name. One that highlights a honorable ancestory like the Vikings or Irishmen. "

Just a thought wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:44 AM:

" I would like to pose a few questions...First of all, if the nickname is changed, will it make a lick of difference in the lives of the people living in poverty, drug abuse, alcohol abuse and crime on the reservations? Secondly, if the nickname is changed, will racism, real or perceived, on campus go away? The last two questions should also be asked from the point of not changing the nickname. And last of all, a hundred years from now, will anyone really give a darn? "

Independent Conservative wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:45 AM:

" Common Sense makes great points. I say we end the debate with a name change now. How about UND's mascot be the Fightin' Vikes or Norsemen or something attributed to an ethnic group with an equally proud heritage to the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota peoples, yet not averse to their heritage referred to this way? Will someone please tell me why this is not feasible? Is it economics? School pride in the alumni? "

ND Native wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:39 AM:

" Go "UND Fighting Sioux",,,, Grand Forks herald, check it out, an article about another idea in the name change, Mdewakanton Sioux of Minn. are actually donating 10 million for naming rights of new stadium, another 2.5 million for scholorships to the University, great read, a progressive tribe that is actually moving forward for the future for thier people, rather than living in the past. At least some tribes are doing some good. SR enrollees with no heat in thier homes,,, sad thing that all the people listed in this article are SR elders, what's that say about the tribal councils priorities. Our elders where once looked too for guidance in issues like these, now their ignored. "

PO3 wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:20 AM:

" Kudo's to Mary Louise, you are right, deflection of problems people face make for less accountability of the leaders who represent you and the rest of us. If they can focus on something like a logo, they don't have to deal with the other pressing problems we know need to be dealt with on all our reservations. "

tonto wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:56 AM:

" c-mon, this effort is so insulting to our intelligence! mr. dupris needs to get back down to the Cheyenne River and support the efforts there before receivership is realized. Sam your efforts are detrimental to our people in the final outcome. "

Common Sense wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:35 AM:

" Like most hot issues, the Fighting Sioux nickname issue is, at best, a red herring. It's largely a non-problem that people feel can actually be solved with bickering. Why would you want anyone thinking about the real problems in the world when you can keep everyone (including yourself) distracted by a meaningless argument? Not only that, but don't forget the need people have to complain and protest. If you take away the nickname issue, everyone who's complaining now will find something new and even more meaningless to kick and scream about, and still a silent observer would only witness the same real-world problems getting worse as they are ignored. "

Karen Retzlaff wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:18 AM:

" I have been following with a great deal of interest this story of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname. This story, however, makes me wonder where our priorities are. When Mary Louise Defender Wilson, a national treasure and national honoree in storytelling, has trouble finding enough money to heat her house, something needs to be done. The nickname is offensive--racially speaking--to me, a white woman of German-Russian ancestry...Why? Because I have received training through the Women of the ELCA on Anti-Racism. Our society has institutionalized racism. That is to say, it is inherent in our way of life. It is difficult to change and will take years to do so. The "Fighting Sioux" is one of the prime examples of how "it has been this way for a long time, so let's not change it" way of thinking that keeps our friends and neighbors without sufficient means to take care of themselves and those around them. It's more than a fight about a nickname, it's a challenge to do something positive for our fellow Americans, No matter what amount of melanin we have in our skin, hair, and eyes. It's time to show the way--not to follow blindly! "

Chris wrote on Dec 10, 2007 7:56 AM:

" you people need to get over this racist cry that you have been displaying for years. This isnt 100 years ago anymore its the 20th century. The fighting sioux logo has brought alot of pride and respect to both North Dakota and UND. I just hate it when you guys think that everyone is out to get you and that we stole your land and everything else. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!! we are all americans and if you dont want to be one then maybe we should pass a law that says no native americans can live off the reservations. How would you like that. Get a life people UND is doing nothing but positive things with the fighting sioux logo. If you get rid of it then I think that they should make it the fighting caucasins. cuz we have great pride in that. "

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