Bismarck, North Dakota News

" to "to Deb" : I think you and I read a different editorial. The one in today's paper is about civil discourse. I'm not calling names - I was questioning why it's a bad thing in ND (or according to some people in ND) to speak eloquently. I didn't say they were "dumb" for not speaking eloquently. You may not like me (or, more to the point, this online persona I've adopted) - that's fine. You may not like my opinions -that's fine too. But I don't think it's fair to characterize me as having a superior attitude. That would suggest that I have said "I'm better than you because of ______" which, to my knowledge, I've not done. "

" I have to wonder if half the people writing here even read the whole article; or if they did, were they able to detect Clay's tongue in cheek humor? He is humorously railing AGAINST food snobbery, not lobbying FOR it! Oh well, he'll just have to resign himself to throwing pearls before swine, I guess. Rock on, Clay! "

" no, it's not about speaking eloquently, it's about a superior attitude. In fact you should read today's editorial. I think it's about you. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to single you out. You certainly aren't alone. "

" "LEGAL Hispanic immigrants are always welcome. ILLEGAL ones aren't. Big Difference. Something a lot of people don't seem to understand. " With the narrow minds of some Nord Dakotans, even if a Hispanic Immigrant is here legally, you people are going to think "another wetback that needs deported." "

" to "to Deb" "Humble" and "Dirty Old Farmer" : is this a North Dakotan trait that I wasn't taught? Speaking eloquently, with more than monosyllabic words and in complete sentences, or striving for continued education is a bad thing? Wow, who knew??? "

" to Nuff said; LEGAL Hispanic immigrants are always welcome. ILLEGAL ones aren't. Big Difference. Something a lot of people don't seem to understand. "

" Dirty Old Farmer said "Backbones are what made North Dakota what it is, be it a farmer, rancher, trucker, warehouse worker, carpenter, bricklayer, housewife, etc" In today's world, those people are called "Hispanic immigrants" and people like you want to deport them and ban their entry into the country. No more Norvegians or Chermans from Russia are going to come over and settle in Nord Dakotah. "

" Seems to me somebody sure touched your nerve, farmer, for you to go off on such a tirade that insinuates that only one class of people do any "work". The point is, any person (unless physically handicapped) could push the button or turn the wrench to put together Apollo 9, including the engineers whose conceptual intelligence designed it, but conversely, how many of the people turning the wrenches had the conceptual intelligence to design it? "

" iggy....Ouch! Did I touch a nerve? Remember the tribune states, 'post your own comment' ... thats what I did. Regarding your tautology of modern technology and its merits towards eliminating hand labor, BS.... you still need someone to push the button... move the lever... drive the machine.... or better yet...build the button, build the lever, build the machine.... its almost like the chicken and the egg argument... you might say, the greatest strategist in the world is nothing without someone to implement the strategy. Regarding 'Nuff said' his sarcasm was begging for comment.... I took the bait. "

" I'm wondering why Clay Jenkinson made slams against Ekalaka, Baker, and Havre. Montana. I grew up in Ekalaka and I can't see where it was that much different from small towns in North Dakota. Does he have a problem with all small towns or just the ones in Montana? "

" Yeah, "dirty old farmer," seems to me that it took someone sitting at desk to design those buildings and roads and bulldozers, or don't those type of people do "work"? I'd like to know what is your definition of "work". With modernization, your romantic idea of hand labor is constantly being eliminated, and then what are people going to do for "work"? And yeah, "conceptual intelligence" never moved a rock, but it sure didn't hurt that conceptual intelligence brought about the lever and fulcrum. If you think some educated people seem self-righteous and "talk down" to people, take a look at your own actions, for characterizing "nuff said" for having never done any "work." "

" in addition to 'Nuff said'... you have a tendency to want to make North Dakota natives appear to be rubes... unfortunately, I have never seen 'conceptual intelligence' move a rock.... its always taken physical strength... Backbones are what made North Dakota what it is, be it a farmer, rancher, trucker, warehouse worker, carpenter, bricklayer, housewife, etc.... if anything, you should be humbled everytime you look at a building, road, rockpile or ranch...Because it was built with the care and determination that is native to North Dakotans, and not built by, snotty comments by someone who, in all probability, never did a bit of work, nor even knows how to work. "

" to 'Humble', as well as, 'to humble'....Here, here... I have to agree with your comments, its as if we shared a common college educational experience, the best professors were those who could communicate easily with the student. Why? Because they could relate to what the students were going through trying to absorb concepts... most pompous Doctorates...didn't have a clue... kind of like the author of this letter, as well as, Mr. Jenkinson. (and to a lessor extent 'Deb') and to 'Nuff said' .... you reak of intelligence...your peers must be in awe, such communication skills! My, my... (and you apparently have the ability to type as well!) "

" Thank you! Deb has the same tendancy - to 'try' to talk down to those she feels superior to (which is almost everyone). You hit the nail on the head. "

" Here's a translation of what all this boils down to... They want people to return to ND simply to have more slaves to subject to their robber baron economic policies. The citizens of ND have forever been subjected to that same ol' "frontier mentality" of take it or leave it. You can come up here and slave for us, but we won't have your opinions, and won't allow you any voice whatsoever. ENJOY! "

" Wees Nord Doakotans don'd want change... and we don'd want no girlies from Hooters either. Wees like living like its the 1940s. "

" Isn't french dressing the status quo for any top flight salad bar? I think it is always available at North American Steak Buffet, Dakota Farms, Bonanza and Jack's Steakhouse to name a few excellent restaurants. "

" Hey Deb, relax. I did rise to the occasion and learn all of the connotations that were being thrown at me. But that was college; in the real world of small town or even large town North Dakota it may not work. Please don’t throw the “real world out there” thing at me, I am well traveled and have two (one is expired) well-stamped passports to prove it. I am not a kid, I am a retired professional who has grown weary of hearing about books he is reading, or looking at a word or phrase that I know is way over the head of my mother. I may even have to look it up as well (never again to use it). Reading a newspaper should be a simple straightforward easy happening of “give me the facts or keep it simple.” I never have a problem with the Washington Post or the New York Times or the London Times editorial section. Don’t you talk to me about what teaching is about unless you are or have been a teacher! Sorry Deb, I apologize for getting riled up, time for me to go outside and put up some Christmas lights. "

" JUST ME, that was not a very common sense statement you made about liberals. You know it is not true. Nothing wrong with change, some things in ND need to be changed (nothing is perfect), it just has to be managed and done properly. Just sign me a moderate and happy and satisfied to be that way. You know in your heart and mind that us moderates make up the majority of North Dakotans. "

" Humble: Part of teaching is setting the bar high enough so that it makes people uncomfortable. Hopefully uncomfortable enough to rise to the level of the bar. If you weren't curious enough to figure out what those difficult phrases were that your teachers were using, well, then, really - doesn't that say more about you than they? This writer and Clay Jenkinson are great examples of true North Dakotans. They aren't comfortable to sit back and pretend like the status quo is "just good enough for me." If you reach out and look at different view points, we won't kick you out of the state - we promise. There's a whole world out there and knowing more about it can only help your life here. "

" We don'd like no fancy 'ants smart people here in Nord Dakotah, wees like to be dumb and republikans. Keep dem forurners away! "

" I have never agreed with Clay Jenkinson's opinions, so does that make me less 'intelligent' than Jenkinson? One can have all the 'education' money can buy, it does not take the place of common sense! And I have not seen a liberal yet with any common sense! Pat, it was so nice of you to come back to ND, after you went everywhere else! WOOHOO! Funny, how ND is not 'good enough' for a lot of you young people until you finally find out how great ND really was and is, and YOU want to changeit! "

" I do not know James Arthaud nor do I know the author of the Letter to the Editor, Pat Mann Grantier. I know Clay Jenkinson only from listening to him on the Thomas Jefferson Hour and reading his weekly column in the Bismarck Tribune. I do have some observations to make. Mr. Jenkinson is a Rhodes scholar, author, historian, and a scholar in residence at Dickinson State University. These are impressive credentials but are they the credentials needed to sway the thinking of the ordinary North Dakotan or even communicate with the ordinary North Dakotan? Understand, I am not putting the average North Dakotan down; we are a well educated, common sense group of people. Mr. Jenkinson’s column, on Sunday mornings, was the first thing I read in the Tribune. Not any more. I find the columns have an elitist preachy tone to them. Case in point was yesterdays column about food snobbery and the use of the expression, “anti … jihad” to describe some Bismarckers opposition to a new restaurant, reportedly coming to town. Mr. Jenkinson is a bright, articulate man who will have difficulty getting his ideas across to us underlings. Some of those ideas may be good, some may be just “pie in the sky” and some, if not articulated properly, will turn us off. When I attended college, I will never forget the teachers who had Doctors Degrees, some were great, most just awful. As a pupil, all I wanted was information. Most of the teachers with Doctors Degrees could not do that simple thing. Often they used words or expressions I did not understand, ending up frustrating me or angering me because of their poor communication skills or inflated egos. Mr. Jenkinson, you are a good man, but even good men can still speak modestly and respectfully. "

" Hey 'dirty old farmer' - I agree with you 100%! "

" Well Pat, opinions and rectums have a commonality in so much everybody has one. Its important that we all remember, that the first can be fit in the latter. Having lived in North Dakota for over half a century I get a little put out by individuals with 'self-proclaimed superior intellect', (kind of like you) as well as Jenkinson. When someone takes an opposite tact to an issue you 'libs' always have to cry foul, maybe Arthaud was justified in his attack? (Pat please refer back to my opening two sentences) "