Bismarck, North Dakota News

" Not all parents are parental failures. Some of us take children who are older and seriously troubled. Unfortunately in ND this is fair game for the Social Services people to use to remove a child. Unfortunately Social Workers in ND do not listen to the parents at all - and by their own admission - they only listen to the child - the parent is of no consequence. Once my child went to DBGR, I requested she be allowed to attend the family's church (which is not Lutheran and not DBGR's service). I was immediately cut off from all contact with my child. My child was isolated, was forced to spend an inordinate amount of time with the DBGR spiritual advisor, was not allowed to move forward, not allowed contact with family or peers until she agreed to DBGRs Religious programming. This is what this lawsuit is all about. Forcing children - against the wishes of their families - into accepting a Religion and Religious Brainwashing - or the children suffer consequences akin to torture techniques (the forced isolation, removal of family contact, subjected to "Spiritual Advisors" constantly harping on the child about the DBGR Religion). And...by the way...these torture techniques are against the Geneva Convention. Given my circumstances, I would say, I tried to be the best parent I could to a troubled child. A child I adopted, love, and care for, yet DBGR calls me only a Caregiver? And brainwashes my child? This is something that is unacceptable - and should be unacceptable to every human on the planet!! "

" Once again Mark you speak like a complete idiot or a social worker. I am sure that all the adoptive parents nationwide are will be comforted by your classification of them as nothing more than caregivers. Your attidtude is good reason why people shouldn't adopt older special needs children. Hate to disillusion you, but we didn't have a choice, DHS makes thousands of dollars each month in "adminsitrative fees" for each teen they place in foster care. Got the paper work to prove it. DHS get's those fees by placing these children in need of PRTC at DBGR as RCCF children. And, for us it is real simple, this child was seculuded, punished, not allowed off campus with anyone other than her "spiritual advisor" and not moved up in levels for her "nonparticipation." Have the paper work to prove that too. DBGR psychologically abuses children based upon DHS' defination of abuse, but DBGR makes money for DHS. FFRF is correct. This is a clear violation of seperation of state and church. Hope you follow this law suit through to the end, as we are going to take great delight in exposaing DBGR for what it is through the records and reports they provided us with. "

" You have me on the class action part payoff part. However,I do know exactly first hand what I'm talking about at DBGR because I worked with families and the children that recieve services and am familiar with DBGR. DBGR doesn't sent out invitations to kids, applications for services are made. If want your child to go somewhere of your choosing, then you foot the bill and leave the rest of us taxpayers out of it the minute you have a problem. You sound jaded becuase of your own life. You are talking based on what the freedom thinkers are telling the papers? That's narrow minded and blind. If people have a problem with how state dollars get allocated I suggest they contact their representative not an organization providing treatment to kids, who has a mission than an decent. person would appreciate. And in your example, you are not the parent, your the caregiver. I'm still right. "

" Ah, another person that speaks without knowing what they are talking about Mark. Class Action Payoff, is that it? Funny how the suit doesn't ask for damages, only and injunction stopping the state and counties from using tax payer funds to stop the brainwashing of our states children by DBGR. I find it extremelty alarming that folks like you and Nice have such narrow minded, let's blame the parents attitudes without having any idea about what you are blaming. Sorry, but all we did was try to make a difference in a homeless child's life. We didn't create the 6 Axis I psychological disorders this child had, nor did we ask to have her placed at DBGR. Nope, we were accused of psychologically abusing her because we were going to place her in a PRTC of our choosing. So, please spare me you claimed knowledge of something you know nothing about. "

" Why do people try to blame an organization tyring to do good for their parental failures. Knowing how the field works I would suspect that you are the reason you had limited contact with your child, not yor religious preference. Programs have limitations and could not possibly appease all parties recieving care at every step of the way. If you pay for a hambuger you shouldn't expect a steak. The homes are where the problems are. Unless people are upset and looking to get on a class action for a payoff. "

" Read the post from A Parent - that's me - I expressly state that when I asked for Roman Catholic upbringing for my child, I was immediately denied all access to my child. I could not write, call or visit. How then, under these restrictions, despite a court order stating I was to have access - how - do I take my child to the church of our choice? Please answer that one? "

" Did you catch the end of the article? "People of equally good character can differ radically on whether a freedom from religion philosophy that nearly deifies *an extra-constitutional concept, separation of church and state*, can coexist respectfully with a right to freedom of religion." Since when was this extra-constitutional? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." "

" I have read several of these comments, and I can't for the life of me help but wonder. I myself was court ordered to a facility that was christian based. I had no religious upbringing,and I was a very troubled youth. Years later I would have taken my own life,but I feel that the teachings of Christ at a helpless moment turned my life around. I support these facilities because I know first hand that they work. "

" I find none of this the least bit surprising. As a former member of the LCMS, i found that church to be anything but Christian by how they treated people, especially women. It is also a very political church body, where right and wrong is determined by who is doing what and wants what and how influential their family is and how much power their relatives wield within the church. "

" DBGR in Minot"s programming is far more stringent than the programming that Former DBGR Employee saw in Bismarck. It's interesting to note two things in this matter, one is that fact that DHS can violate North Dakota Adminsitrative Law 75-03-17-01 (12) as while every child at the Minot campus meets this definition, DBGR classifies them as RCCF care children so DHS can receive "administrative fees" for foster care, and two, in our case, our child was moved to DBGR and classified as RCCF from an out of state PRTC facility where both her needs and the family's needs were met even though the cost was less than housing her at DBGR. There are many fine PRTC's around that aren't run by Religous Doctrine. We wanted to place our child at such a place with the cost absobed by us, but DHS would have lost vast amounts of funds if that happened and fought us all the way. I have had the opportunity to speak with a number of kids at DBGR Minot and they all say the same thing, they don't want the religous programming and they aren't allowed to see, speak with our write thier parents. WHy is that if DBGR is such a fine facility? As for the website, it has been changed since the original law suit was filed, and while DBGR claims that the kids can go off campus to other services, they are still "forced" to participate in the programming that takes place on campus, like it or not. Question for "nice", how can these kids make a choice when they can't have contact with thier parents? answer, they can't and thier custodians force them to participate in the Lutheran programming at DBGR. "

" typical sue happy people if you don't like it instead of finding another placement just sue especially if something works. my brother was there awhile back, court ordered placement and it was the best thing that ever happened to him. Ifyou don't like it find someplace else but dont mess it up for the ones it works for. that is stupid! "

" these residential adolescent treatment centers are the biggest crock. sending your kids away to brainwash camp isn't going to replace good parenting. adolescents barely have rights as it is, why violate their first amendment right? After all it has been decided by the establishment clause that, "Neither a state nor the federal government can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." I hope the FFR wins this one. They've won over a new member. The check is in the mail. "

" I used to work at DBGR here in Bismarck, and let me assure you that the spiritual programming while I was there was very limited. We spent about an hour per week watching children's Bible videos and singing songs. And not one of the staff I encountered ever suggested that negative behaviors or mistakes were "sins against Jesus". This being said, spiritualatity was part of the child's programming while at DBGR. Perhaps a settlement can be reached to substitute other programming with the permission of the parent or guardian. But for a parent to complain that staff cannot take each resident to their own church is ridiculous...these programs are understaffed as is. If you are taking responsibility for the religious upbringing of your child, then take him or her to church yourself! Also, I suggest that the plantiffs in this suit come up with alternative placements for the children needing the services of a residential treatment center in North Dakota--because unless they are willing to provide them, they don't exist! "

" To Nice: You are really something. Can't wait to get to court on this case. So much documentation to prove that what you say is a lie. A question to from me to you, why were we completely denied any access to our child, including the right to take her off campus for our own religious services when we objected to the lutheran teachings. My beleif is and I think we will prove it in Court is that DBGR is nothing more than a recruiting ground for the Lutheran Church. Another Question for you nice, why did the DBGR COO order the destruction of the minutes of a meeting on this denial and then file a perjured affidavit with the COurt? My beleif, to hide the illegal activites that go at DBGR. I for one, want DBGR closed down. Children shouldn't be under the supervision of professional that committ crimes and violate the law then think it is ok as long as they ask thier God for forgiveness. "

" Independent Conservative, a better question to ask, is how will the United States ever survive her next 200 years? The answer is she will not. We must hope and work to make what does replace the United States is much better then what we have now, but there is no guarantee that it will be. "

" "I was told, that in order for my child to be allowed to attend the church of our Faith, I would have to take her". Yet did you take the time? No, to busy with your life to actually raise your kid. I you really cared you would have. I'm sure the judge saw this too; hence, the relocation to L.A. "Our non-Christian religious spiritual life programming allows a client to continue to practice a non-Christian faith off-campus." -http://www.dakotaranch.org/programs/spiritual.php "

" God in Heaven! Coercing children into religious indoctrination. How did the United States ever survive her first 200+ years? What a terrible nation that "makes" kids eat their spiritual veggies. My sarcasm notwithstanding, thanks, John Ford, for your post and clarification. "

" As the adopted father of a severely emotionally disturned teen placed at DBGR and a plaintiff in this action, I am truly troubled by the irresponsible reporting of this editorial. After spending close to an hour with a reporter from this paper, the truth of this suit is not all the plaintiff's in this action are atheists. Quite to the contrary, two of them, myself included are parents who requested religious teachings of the Roman Catholic faith and were denied. it is completely irresponsible for the Editors of this paper to question motives that that know are untrue. Whether DBGR actually provides treatment for tyhese troubled teens is questionable at best. In our case it was determined that it was in the best interests of our child to return her to the streeets of Los Angeles, to a birth mother who was a prostitute and addicted. The issue here for me and the reason I decided to join this suit is very simple, DBGR violates the freedoms of religion for children and families that are placed there. Period. The Board at DBGR condones criminal actions by it's officers in an effort to hide this fact, and Carol Olson, Paul Ronningen and Governor Hoeven ignored our complaints. It is truly sad that this paper would publish an editorial so one sided and filled with assumptions. We all know what the analogy of auusmptions are Mr. Editor. "

" My parents insisted that I attend Sunday school from Kindergarten through my Senior Year of High School; this also included Vacation Bible School for two weeks after school was dismissed for the summer, and also two years of Confirmation. I was an obedient child and did so. My former church was and still is an Evangelical Lutheran Church here in Bismarck. The Pasteur of the church, who was a good and gentle man, taught confirmation. Lay people of the congregation, who volunteered for the job, taught Sunday school and Vacation Bible School. What education, if any, they received is unknown to me. I am now an adult; not a member of any church in either Bismarck or Mandan, nor do I wish to be. I am a very spiritual person, but organized religion has no role to play in my life. I can still remember frightening discussions and teachings, by lay people, from my Junior and Senior High School years of Sunday school. These teachings centered primarily about the end days of the world. Today as an adult I still have some difficulty throwing these teachings away and dismissing them as the thoughts of ill-advised lay people. I am saddened and angry this pseudo-Christian nonsense was beaten into me. I tell you this because the DBGR does good work, but is also brainwashing children and is probably doing nearly irreparable damage to them. "

" As a parent, my child was forced to undergo the religious programming at DBGR. As a parent, I requested Roman Catholic teachings for my child - our faith. As a parent, when I requested this, I was immediately denied all access to my child. I could not call, write, or visit. But...I was told, that in order for my child to be allowed to attend the church of our Faith, I would have to take her. No staff is allowed to take the children to their own churches, synagogues, etc. It must be done by the parents and/or guardians (see the DBGR web page on spiritual life). My child was isolated, forced to endure hours of a spiritual advisor cramming the DBGR religion down her throat, she was not allowed to visit with her peers, she was forced to write about why she was not following the DBGR spiritual programming, and she was not allowed to move forward in the program until she agreed to submit to the programming. These happen to be torture techniques designed to break a person and force them into compliance. The compliance being, DBGRs religious programming and throwing out the current faith practices of her family. This is wrong wrong totally wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen. As to whether parents have their children's best interests at heart - my child was subjected to this and I most definitely have her best interests at heart. Because she was adopted at an older age, and came to me with severe emotional, mental, and behavioral disorders, she has had a very difficult time as a teenager. Her subjection to the DBGR brainwashing techniques only served to heighten her emotional and mental issues - it did not help her. Being told that a mistake made by my child is a "sin against Jesus" only makes a child fearful of making a mistake - it does not equip them to live a wholesome life. DBGR is sorely in the wrong here. "

" The Boys and Girls Ranch along with The Home on the Range and Teen Challange are three examples of what works. Yes they are run with the backing of a church and yes both can use Christian faith activities. But without the support of the churches behind them, chances are they would not be here. In Dickinson we have Club 316 which is a youth center, Dickinson's only youth center open to all kids. Club 316 is backed by a Church and without that backing we would not have this choice for kids to go to. Christian faith is practiced but not pushed onto the kids. Government needs to bud out of what they have already messed up. "