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We disavow God at our own peril

 
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Jun 06, 2007 - 10:21:26 CDT
By BILL KNOX
Washburn
“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” (George Santayana)

Some have disavowed God, to their peril, in the past. So says Romans 10, 11. But how can anyone look at the myriad forms of life on this earth, with attributes even science can’t fully explain, and conclude there is no creator? (Psalm 14:1)

Some come up with a theory of evolution. But the "scientific" laws of thermodynamics refute the "theory" of evolution. Things do not go onward and upward. (1 Timothy 6:20)

And how can anyone look at this great nation and not realize we've been blessed more in a few centuries than others over thousands of years?

Only ignorance or lies can deny the fact that our founders and founding documents recognized our freedoms and blessings come from our creator and not government. (Matthew 22:15-21) Our blessings have been magnified by our support of Israel. (Genesis 12: 1-3)

Yet today, liberal leaders in Washington and elsewhere, mostly Democrats, are leading us away from our founding tenets. One lie they tell is that there is a wall of separation between church and state. This is not in our founding documents, nor was it the intent of our founders.

Think about our Supreme Court. In the past it ruled that slavery was OK in Dred Scott. A wall of separation between church and state, was added in 1947, Hugo Black writing. Now they rule -- and rule is a good word -- that killing babies is OK. And having pornography almost anywhere is OK, but the Ten Commandments may harm someone.

God not only removes blessings, but also adds curses to nations that show him disregard. (Deuteronomy 28) Right now, we have gangs roaming our big cities, pornography everywhere, an epidemic of drugs, failing and sometimes dangerous government schools. Morality in general is going down nationwide.

Psalm 19 and Romans 8 are good places to start learning what an awesome God we have.
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We disavow God at our own peril
Comments

gg wrote on Jul 6, 2007 10:18 PM:

" I'm with Stepper on this one, I am not seeing a point or relavance of the question "

Religion Answers! wrote on Jul 6, 2007 8:39 PM:

" To: Stepper wrote on Jul 5, 2007 9:56 PM . . . GL wrote on Jul 5, 2007 9:26 AM: " Does anybody know what the main religion was in Germany prior to WWII?? " . . My question: Stepper - Do you EVER READ the previous blogs? Wake up! Get with it! "

Stepper wrote on Jul 5, 2007 9:56 PM:

" TO GL: What is your point, please? "

Religion Answers wrote on Jul 5, 2007 4:57 PM:

" to: GL wrote on Jul 5, 2007 9:26 AM: . . . Your answer - Roman Catholic, Lutheran and some independent Protestant churches. "

gg wrote on Jul 5, 2007 4:12 PM:

" I am going to guess jewish "

GL wrote on Jul 5, 2007 9:26 AM:

" Does anybody know what the main religion was in Germany prior to WWII?? "

Thank you C wrote on Jul 4, 2007 9:04 PM:

" You got it correct with "basic good manners and compassion would go a long way ..." One of the good manners is to be able to talk (and even try to persuade) about your religion without trying to cram it down everyone. SOME Christians in this country are like some in other places (Iran) in thinking that they have to have their religion over and above everyone else....like forcing it on to government property in Fargo. "

C. wrote on Jul 3, 2007 12:03 PM:

" Basic compassion and good manners would go a long way to help society as a whole. No matter what religion or beliefs people hold good manners and human compassion should be basic. When those two fundamental things are not basic it creates chaos in society. Then that choas leads to a lot of religious and other "mudslinging" and people not wanting to take responcebility for their actions. "

Sorry to Defender wrote on Jul 1, 2007 6:52 AM:

" Sorry about Defender and his computer and Satan and such. I would not want to see anything happen to the defender. I have found that most people given a chance are good people. Many people I have had strong disagreements with I have gotten to know and like in my own way. I suspect if I met the defender we would eventually be friends. I am sure he has a lot of good qualities. A good fiend of mine who taught me a lot was a religious nut similar to the defender. We rode to work together, and I was sad when the guy died young. I hope the old Defender has a good July holiday, and has some quality time with his family. I am going to Have a nice trip and I would be the first to admit there is a lot of good in everybody. I suggest give everyone a second chance, and you may be suprized about the qualities you find. I punched a guy once when I was you, later he kept me from going to jail. It taught me about forgiveness, and a good lesson. "

To: Be Honest wrote on Jun 30, 2007 11:06 PM:

" You really think that all the good people are faking it? Darn, there never seems to be a tickbird around when one is needed. "

Be Honest wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:26 PM:

" If most people were 100% honest they would admit they do not believe the silly religious stuff, but they know for the sake of appearance, the sake of their job, and just the general political correctness they need to pretend like they go along with it. No politician dare tell the truth that they know it is all nonsense. We have such an effective system of discrimination against people who are truthful. If politicians expressed their real view on religion no one would elect them. So it turns out the politically correct thing to do is to say you believe in whatever the most voters say they believe in. Thats how the game is played. Most men if they told the truth would admit they just do the religious thing to keep the wife happy. "

Kent wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:21 PM:

" To Online Editor: Just so there's no confusion I was referring to the comment I posted to "Satan has infested Defenders Computer" yesterday, not the one I just sent a few minutes ago. Thanks. "

Kent wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:19 PM:

" To Satan has infested Defenders Computer: That's a pretty sick joke you made basically telling Defender to electrocute himself. That just shows where your heart is. Joking about someone's death just because you don't hold their point of view is sick. "

Kent wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:08 PM:

" To Online Editor: What happened to my comment to "Satan has infested Defenders Computer"? "

Religion against Health Care wrote on Jun 30, 2007 4:47 PM:

" Certainly Jesus would not approve of universal health care. The whole concept of a man looking after his brother is contrary to the Republican Jesus that helped elect George Bush. Everyone knows Jesus would be against unions, and for tax breaks for the rich. That is why the religious right voted for Bush, because he had so much in common with Jeeesus. "

Deny the Holocost wrote on Jun 30, 2007 4:43 PM:

" Lets see, the Germans killed the Jews, because they were Jews. Of course religion had nothing to do with it. Even though protestants were fighting catholics in Northern Ireland, religion had nothing to do with it. In the middles east, it is just coincidence that all the non Jewish countries are fighting Israel. When Spain and England fought it had nothing to do with religion. Of couse the current mess in the middle east is not at all related to the fact that one side is Islamic, and the Other is an army from a predominately Christian country. The Crusades were not about religion, neither was the Spanish Inquisition. I ask, who is delusional in this game? "

Harmless fun wrote on Jun 30, 2007 4:16 PM:

" Please note that in Africa there is a church, which cannot be named that is opposed to the use of condoms. Condoms prevent the spread of aids. The same church who we do not want to offend opposes birth control in underdeveloped countries. This leads to over population. In the middle east, you might note that the two groups killing each other are each different factions of the same religion. To say that religion has not been a key part in most major wars throughout history, seems like a stretch. Please explain to that religion was not used to exploit the poor and the ignorant. Religion did nothing to oppose slavery. In fact the Bible tells how to deal with and treat slaves. Tell me religion did not condone slavery. "

Practical Skeptic wrote on Jun 30, 2007 2:47 PM:

" Religion began when the first con man met the first fool. "

Student wrote on Jun 30, 2007 2:39 PM:

" Taking a break from their labors, Zhan and Po observed the crowd in the marketplace. Zhan said, 'The radicals, extremists, fools and unwise call their enemies 'Radicals!' 'Extremists!' 'Fools!' and 'Ignorant!' Who can be right?' Po smiled, then took a short nap. "

To: Not Harmless Fun wrote on Jun 30, 2007 1:15 PM:

" Not Harmless Fun wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:16 AM That religion is the reason for strife in Ireland, middle east, and even blamed religion for spreading AID's in Africa. Where do we start when a person is that delusional. There is a rumor that there were wars before any present religion. When the English Kings (remember them, the kings of the middle ages) made the English people convert to the church of England he ignored the Irish. Their lands had been taken and they had to become share croppers on their own land so it was a mistake to allow them to remain Catholic thus further polarizing them through history (most people forget history if you let them). The Middle East has always been at war, remember Babylon (30 miles from Baghdad) or Persia (Iran) in the Book of Esther. The biggest problem with AID's in Africa is that they believe witch doctors over there not us. One big rumor was that the only way to cure AID's was to have sex with a virgin. They are their own worst enemy. Truck drivers in Africa have been taking AID's from the brothels home to wives and villages for over 35 years. An airline steward brought it from Africa to Florida and San Francisco gay bathhouses about 27 years ago. In this country you must report sex partners if you have syphilis but not if you have AID's. In San Francisco the Homosexuals refused to close the gay bath houses. There were gay bars that closed because all regular customers had died of AID's. Most of our scientists are Christians and most of our information is better than in Africa or even radical groups in San Francisco. "

A Lesson in Bashing wrote on Jun 30, 2007 10:06 AM:

" It is outragours that the religious right should accuse anyone of bashing. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the rest of these people made it a point to stir up hate against homosexuals. It was Christians who sponsored the inquisition. It was Southern Christians that sat by idly and watched Blacks get lynched. These people who are now crying foul have been some of the premier bashers of all times. Who gave the Jews so much grief for so many years and said they could not be members of country clubs? Who bashes anyone as a liberal communist that doesn't accept their view? When the tables are turned on people like the defender all of a sudden he declares he is being bashed. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Good to see the poor fellow gone. "

Not Harmless Fun wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:16 AM:

" Religion is not harmless fun. Religion is the basis for strife in Northern Ireland, The middle east, and numerous other countries throughout the world. Religion has used missionaries to destroy native cultures on every continent with missionaries. Religion has lead to starvation and the spread of aids because of limiting condom use in Africa. Television preachers use religion everyday to defraud the elderly of the money they need to live. The history of religion is replete with examples of atrocities, enslavement, sex abuse, and the list goes on. People need to leave the dark ages and embrace a new age based on logic, and science. We cannot solve the problems of the world schackled by ancient mythology. "

Religious Election wrote on Jun 30, 2007 6:54 AM:

" You should not be surprised that religion gets mixed with George Bush, and Dick Cheney. Bush is the one who drew the religious right into his campaign. Religion is what got us into the mess in Iraq. We have an incompetent president, elected by the religious fundamentalist that were sure he was a man of God. It is the best example of why religion should not be mixed with politics. Look at what we got. How many of these phony preachers encouraged their congregations to support the Republican agenda. This is a classic case of Religion being used to dupe the lower classes. Bush is the poster child for the Religious right, now they should take ownership. "

No fun without the fundies. wrote on Jun 29, 2007 11:38 PM:

" This whole thing will be no fun without the fundies. So I would like to propose we will let every fundie pick two things that are not true, and the rest of us will agree to believe them. This will be like a golf handi cap. For example we might all have to agree we came did not come from mush, then perhaps the defender would come back. Maybe possibilities will come back if everybody pretends the Pope is inflammable. Oh, excuse me I meant infalable or whatever. I know what will work. Last week I took off three days and the fundies went nuts. Next week I will be gone for ten days, and the fundies can have a field day, no one will challange them and they can quote the bible with impunity. "

Fascination wrote on Jun 29, 2007 11:35 PM:

" A discussion on religion suddenly changing to Bush and Cheney. It is okay if Hollywood uses its extreme influence to elect extreme left wing liberals but religious groups should not try to take the high ground. Here we are with someone again claiming we found "No WMD's". By definition the Weapons of Mass Destruction include the outlawed Chemical and Biological. Saddam used Chemical Weapons on Kurds and Iranians. His germ scientist was just on trial. People who have no trouble finding inconsistencies in the Bible have no ability to remember and analyze relatively current events. That goes beyond ignorance. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 29, 2007 11:16 PM:

" I have to agree with Defender on this one. This blog has become Catholic and Religion bashing. I see people blaming religion for all the problems in the world throughout history even when examples have been provided pointing toward non-religious causing as many if not more and worse problems. Jesus said the road to hell would be wide the there would be many on it while the road to heaven would be narrow and the few on it. I guess we are seeing it more now. This is my last comment on here as well as I have clearly pointed out many times, none of you will change your minds until it's too late and I certainly wont change my mind. God bless you all, even you who dont believe in him. "

Nick wrote on Jun 29, 2007 10:04 PM:

" To 'Dear Nick'. Whether we agree or differ in our view (maybe we do; maybe we don't), it is truly refreshing to receive a comment that is not grounded in name calling, negativism, and/or intentional misdirection. My thanks to you. Imagine what a great discussion we could have here if the foundation for all posts was mutual respect and seeking to understand the other person! "

To Know a tree by its fruit wrote on Jun 29, 2007 9:07 PM:

" Is the liar you refer to George Bush, or Dick Cheney? Are you talking about their lies about weapons of mass destruction, or them saying Saddam was behind 911. Please be more clear. "

**IT HAPPENS** wrote on Jun 29, 2007 8:43 PM:

" HMMM by my count i see we have ohhh about 300-1 ratio of people who don't buy into this malarky. And thats only on this 1 little blog, imagine it world wide. Just let the bible speak for itself or worse yet let the people who buy into it speak for it and thats enough to scare most people away. (Not all of them just the really wierd ones, like some weve seen here). As for the bible not having anything incorrect in it, you only have to look into the 1st part of genesis to find one of the 1st of many. In chapter one god creates adam and eve at the same time but yet in chapter 2 god created adam and he does a few things then gets bored then says Yo "G" I could use a lil company and then god takes the rib n makes eve. But there are no ERRORS in the bible. RRRRRIIIIGHTT! And editor its not christian bashing, not that he should care considering he said he wasnt one, and the fact that most people on here were at ONE time christians. Its a search for truth and having someone constantly trying to shove this bible garbage down our throats by means of itimidation and insults is bound to make some people irrate. Of course it seems ok for him to get away with that stuff and not others. Personally Im glad hes gone, I was gettin sick of hearing the same thing over and over, questions dodged, responses of "NUTS", and knowing his butt hurt. I would doubt this letter even makes it on considering my past few werent allowed and were no different then this one. "

What goes around comes around wrote on Jun 29, 2007 8:00 PM:

" A friend was once a Marine in the Philippines during WWII. He said everyone prayed in those days. I ask what was his worst day. He replied that they were walking in the jungle and one marine threw a sticky fruit at a bunch of monkeys up in the trees. The monkeys immediately threw sticky fruit back. The marines were not permitted to use their rifles because the Japanese might hear the shots. Completely covered with the splatters of the sticky fruit the insects descended on them. They spent a cold night in the swamp trying to avoid the clouds of insects. I guess the moral to the story is "never throw sticky fruit at monkeys unless you have the high ground". "

Know a Tree by its Fruit wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:30 PM:

" Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life; "

Facts don't have emotions wrote on Jun 29, 2007 6:29 PM:

" When someone points out a fact about a particular religion, why is it considered an attack. When some people on this comment site are confronted with facts that don't support their views they construe this as an attack. When I look at goofy ideas from religious people, I don't consider it an attack. Facts are facts. If History has shown some particular religious group committed atrocities, that is history, not an attack. "

Dear Nick wrote on Jun 29, 2007 6:08 PM:

" Nick, there is no certainty, however there is probability. Most of us eventually conclude there is no Santa Clause. As we get older we begin to understand the probability of a man in a sleigh pulled by reindeer is not likely based on what we have experienced in life. Many people have seen UFO's, however most people doubt there are aliens visiting earth. There is as much evidence for UFO's as there is all the religious stuff. However, as adults we realize it is unlikely aliens are visiting the Earth. At one time almost everyone thought the Earth was the center of the Universe. It turned out to be wrong. People confronted with the evidence gave up that erroneous belief. Now we have reached the age where we can see religion for what it is, a system of manipulation. Indeed it is clever, but that does not make it true. The Earth as the center of the universe explanation worked, but it was not true, so we gave that up. As much as you like the religious stuff, it is time to give it up and move on. "

Nick wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:41 PM:

" So, all 'religion' is and always has been just fantasy and delusion and the related writings are all the equivelant of fairy tales? How wonderful it must be to know all things past, present and future with certainty! "

The Loss of a Great Man wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:32 PM:

" It is sad to hear the dimise of the Defender. His ability to shine a light in the dark, and still have it remain dark was unsurpassed. We will miss him and consider his demise a victory for Satan. Who else would stand so strong against knowledge and science? We all owe him a great debt for his tireless effort to lead us through the maze of life. I am sorry he never got us out of the maze, but if I was going to be confused I could not ask for a better man to do it. I love you defender, and hope we me up there someday. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:14 PM:

" To all readers: I talked with Defender, also know as ------------- earlier today. He said he believed conversation was turning into pure Catholic bashing and he refused to be involved. He told me that he has most likely posted his last comments on this topic. More comments can be posted, but not comments directed at Defender. "

Kent wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:12 PM:

" To ---------: You may have come on a bit strong at first but keep up the good fight. "

To: What do you need? wrote on Jun 29, 2007 10:36 AM:

" Shame on you. You can start by reading Job I:12 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. http://www.bartleby.com/108/18/1.html#S1 (It is never to late to change your mind). "

What do you need? wrote on Jun 29, 2007 8:46 AM:

" How could anyone who spent even a brief time looking at history not see that religion is a total fraud? It has always been used to oppress, dominate, and exploit. The poor are always the victims. Why teach history if we learn nothing. We laugh at the tribes in the jungle and their silly beliefs. The witch doctor exploits the tribe, and lives a good life. We can see it so plainly, but when our witch doctor calls himself the Pope, we believe everything he says. "

Homework Time wrote on Jun 29, 2007 8:01 AM:

" Do some research. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormons translated the holy plates he found by placing a stone in a hat, and sticking his face in the hat. The peepstone, as he called it enabled him to translate the tablets to the Book of Mormon. Now this sounds hard to believe. Research it, it is historical truth. Now, we have a man running for president who believes this. He may be a good man, he may get elected. Even the Defender would say this is nonsense, but the same Defender will ask you to believe his book, and his nonsense without hesitation. How can people be so easily mislead? When a "Christian" ask you to believe something bizzare, you are just supposed to accept it. However, when a Mormon ask you to buy some silly story, you lable it as silly. How do you explain this/ "

Child Abuse wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:55 AM:

" Both my children went to top notch colleges and have done very well. As children I never lied to them about all this religious nonsense. I made it a point to answer questions honestly with them. If they asked me a religious question, I simple told them my opinion, but also told them I did not know? I did not force them to go to church, or prohibit them. If something made no sense I told them it had no basis in reality. They learned to cope with reality and discern truth from fantasy. Filling the minds of children with religious stories and telling them they are true only waste their mental capacity, and confuses them about reality. When we could be teaching children about science, history, and math on Sundays, why do we spend the time, showing them it is perfectly all right to live in a fantasy world and be delusional. How can they reason when we tell them Santa Clause if make believe, but Jesus is real. When adults act irrational, how can they expect to have successful children. When your child realizes you lied to them about all the religious stuff, how are they doing to trust you about anything else. Delusional adults can hope at best to end up with delusional children. Why would that surprise you/ "

Satan has infested Defenders Computer wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:29 AM:

" The Defender is having trouble with his computer. I suggest he do an exocism to rid his computer of evil electrons. The best way to drive evil electrons from your computer Defender is to baptize it. Fill your tub with water Defender, get an image of Jesus on the screen, then say " In the name of Jesus, I command Satan to leave my computer". Dunk the computer in the water. Make sure it is turned on. You will fill a terrible jolt, and see flashes of light. That is Satan leaving your computer. This will also have the side benefit of allowing you to meet God. I read about this in an article titled Shake Hands with Jesus. If you just want to meet Jesus, get in the tub with your toaster. When you plug it in you will meet Jesus. "

Relish Suffering wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:16 AM:

" Read through these post. Pay attention to the hard core religous bunch. You will not in their post how much they relish the suffeing of others. You can just see them smiling when they say "God will have a special place in hell for them", or "God will punish them". They are like kids saying " I am going to tell Dad, and you are going to get in trouble". These are the same people that see nothing wrong with sending millions of people to hell. My contention is that the religious right is actually a bunch of vindictive hateful people. Look at capital punishment as an example. Who supports it? The most support comes from the religious right. They love the idea of killing someone when you get a chance. The Bible they love dearly is full of reasons to stone someone to death. These people love violence, and suffering. What happened to all that forgiveness jazz? "

Reality Ruins the Fun wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:10 AM:

" Religion is a great fantasy world were you can get lost and feel good. Modern kids are doing the same thing with video games. You let your imagination run wild and end up having a great time. Once you divorce yourself from reason, and logic, you are no longer shacked by so many pesky rules like gravity, time, and the other elements of science that make life a nuisance. Conquering death is one of the best benefits of a religious system. There is no evidence anyone has ever done it, but you can go into the fantasy world, and be assured you will. How is religion going to compete with video games? A video game can actually have an outcome and let the player win. There is some real feedback. Even gambling has some real feedback. Religion never doles out anything but imaginary feedback. As a placebo religion seems to work, based on the idea that people believe it works. I am against religion because I believe that just like video games it promotes violence, has an anti social component, and opens people to exploitation. The world would be better off without the delusion of Religion. Look only as far as Northern Ireland, or the middle East to see religion at its finest. "

The Trains Ran on Time wrote on Jun 29, 2007 7:01 AM:

" Your argument is ridiculous. You say that even though the Catholic Church has done many bad things you still like that gang. Hitler made the trains run on time. It would be perverse to say that because he made the trains run on time most of the atrocities he committed were forgivable, and you would consider joining his organization. Castro has done a very good job with health care in Cuba, would you endorse his government based solely on that? Why do you need to be part of an organization that does some good, and a lot of bad in order to do good? Is it impossible to just do good, and what is right on your own? "

aveteran wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:03 AM:

" to -------------------------- : I wish I could ignore facts and reality so easily as you. Despite the direct statements of the author of the Constitution/Bill of Rights describing the specific intent of those documents, you claim to better know what Madison intended than Madison himself. I can't agree. I have to trust Madison on that. "

To: Good Nazis and Bad Nazis wrote on Jun 29, 2007 12:11 AM:

" The Catholic Church never had one sex scandal back when they were burning witches and torturing heretics. Schizophrenic Joan of Arc was made a saint. There was no mental hospitals back then so crazies were either witches or saints. The most evil of kings was crowned by the pope. The Catholic Church is dominated by men who have taken a vow to never have sex with women. One radio commentator (Bernie Ward KGO) was once studying to be a priest. He claims the original Catholic Church had a problem with people leaving land and money to individual priests and then they left it to their children. The Vatican found this unacceptable and required a vow of poverty and celibacy so all monies would go to Rome. Its all just about money like the people who run this country. Read only the new testament and be concerned only about yourself or you will get ulcers. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 29, 2007 12:06 AM:

" To: All- Just one more--- There are no errors in the Bible. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:57 PM:

" Funny thing, Bush's numbers are low, no I didn't vote for him, but Congress's numbers are worse. It seems all these nice dems that got elected aren't following through with what they promised either. I say they are all snakes and every one of them is lying to their base. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:54 PM:

" There are Catholics who speak out agains Fallwell and other charletans of faith all the time, no one seems to take notice though. There were catholics dying in death camps right next to Jews, cripples, and mentally handicapped, Hitler wasn't a big fan of them because they had the audacity to help them. Now you try to blame the Catholic church for every bit of poverty in the world? Explain Russia which was run by a government that opposed religion. How do you explain Stalin and Lenin, both athiests, and their actions? Explain the murders they committed. How about China? The most oppressive government in the world and that is somehow the fault of the catholic church or those that believe in God even though the Chinese government has no belief in God and in fact kill those that do? No, you people are grasping at straws now. See according to your theories here, one bad apple makes the basket bad, fine the I say all the athiests who have murdered, tortured, etc. make all athiests bad. It makes about as much sense. The church used to sell forgiveness of sins and crap like that to make money to. Was it right no, does it still happen, I believe it has been corrected. There are bad people in EVERY organization and EVERY walk of life. That's not God's fault and it doesn't disprove God, all it proves is there are bad and stupid people everywhere. Again with the blaming the church for overpopulation. Blaming them for the poor, I don't see any athiest groups out there trying to make lives better though, trying to fix it. Name one Athiest group that is out there caring. poor that the created? Please, you know who created the poor? Their opressive governments. While some oppressive leaders might claim to be catholic or christian, watch their actions and the truth will be known. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:51 PM:

" To: All-- Here are some real science references- www.answersingenesis.org 1-800-778-3390. www.icr.org 1-800-628-7640 and www.creationtruth.com 1-888-578-7884. LIVING-FOSSILS.com The defender is going back into retirement, and unless he calls editor to say he will be posting again, anyone who uses ------------------,is not defender. Have a nice life, eternal life, that is. May God bless us all, and bless America also. "

To: Possibilities Person wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:48 PM:

" You are not getting this very well. Everyone except Noah's family died in the flood. No one would have any history of the flood because all who saw it died (according to the Old Testament). The extreme Old Testament worshippers like Defender think the entire world is only 6,000 years old and we are all descendants of Noah. They want every word of the bible to be correct and every scientist they believe is wrong. Scientists know that there where numerous inland seas at the end of the last Ice Age 10,000 years ago. As the inland seas dumped down rivers into the ocean the level of oceans increased the 300 feet it/they had dropped when miles of ice were piled on land. Genesis 7 The flood: 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:39 PM:

" to: All- The government now has their established religion, "evolution" forced upon all government schooled kids.Evolution theory;- "We all came from mush, stronger mush rules." When "We all came from mush, stronger mush rules"is taught, it leads to death mentality, when it is applied, it always leads to death of humans, in so many ways. Also, why don't you leave the catholic people alone, they are good and decent people, who do more good for others, than a BILLION of you ever will. It's the religion not the common people. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:31 PM:

" To: All-- Read the first amendment carefully; " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Real plain english. The people are the ones who establish religion in this country, in every small or large area. Whether its 5 people in a congregation or 5,000. Those people establish it, not the government. The "supreme court" was never supposed to be involved in religious matters. Their business is "interpret law" not religion. Now it's the government that is "prohibiting" the free exercise of religion. And also the 5 lawyers in Washington, 4 out of the 9 have got it right. But it is none of their business. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:19 PM:

" To: All-- So this is a waste of my time. As God as my witness I tried to wake you up, and teach you His truth that is in the Bible. Please read it and learn. Using two rules. 1 God says what He says. If it isn't plain to you, then go to rule 2 Compare what it says with other Scripture. That is only way to learn the truth of what it says. Never allorigize it. Get a Strong's concordance for looking up different words found in verses. I have about three more post's and will let you "debate," Maybe I'll drop in every day or two. I am now on my other computer which I use for research, while answering your questions. There are no errors in the Holy Bible. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:04 PM:

" To: All-- I spent the day today trying to get computer fixed, C----. Its worse now than it was before. So with that fact and one more,with the exception of a few Stepper, possibilities, etc the rest of you are hopeless. There is a verse for you though;- 2nd Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." Also, you cannot interpret the Bible, as an allegory. You either interpret it literally or you'll never get the right interpretation. Please look up both words in dictionary. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 10:49 PM:

" To: All -- Jesus was of Jewish descent , mother, as far as human attributes go. Probably had olive skin, and brown eyes. "

Help the poor, you create? wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:42 PM:

" The Catholic Church creates the poor by fighting population control, then you have the audacity to say thats ok because they help the poor. First you create the poor, then you send missions to help them. What is wrong with this concept of morality? The Church feeds on poor ignorant suffering people. Over population creates a market. "

To possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:39 PM:

" Do you really think the Nuns in Ireland abusing women were doing so without the knowledge of upper management? How did all this escape the Popes notice given the fact it went on for close to a hundred years? When the nuns forced the women to do laundry and made a profit doing it, didn't anyone say where is this money coming from. Being naive is so nice. By your standard we could take any corrupt organization and say it was full of good people who did not know what was going on, so it was a great organization. Enron would have done great with your defense. "

Good Natzis and Bad Natzis wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:34 PM:

" Where were the good Catholics when the Bad Catholics were doing there stuff. How come none of the Good Catholics speak up about the fraud of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and all the other faith embezzlers? Evil prevails when good men fail to act. "

Rebellion Against Idiocy wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:20 PM:

" Watch CNN, or even Fox for that matter, people are rebelling against the religious right and all their nonsense. Good Americans are standing up and speaking out to take back the country from the fundies that elected Bush. People have seen the results of a country lead by a President that took these gulliable people and exploited them to get elected. Even the fundies have had enough of him. We now have a president with the lowest poll numbers ever. Very few people except the hardcore delusional will admit they voted for or support this president who has single handedly disassemble the constitutional rights that protect us all. The fundamentalist have realized that if fundy group A gets in they will suppress fundy Group B. The smart fundies have realized that separation of Church and state gives every fundy the right to be as different in his belief as he wants. When fundies take over the first people they will turn on is the other fundies they don't agree with. Look at any country where one religious group wins. They always turn on the losing religious group. As a famous man once said to the fundies. " We have no fundies to fear, but ourselves." "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 5:50 PM:

" Some crazy people who perverted their religion to say what they wanted it to say decided they should fly planes in to buildings to kill people. Does that make said religion bad? No, that makes the people bad who twisted the religion. Again, bad people, not God, make bad things happen. Bad people can use God's name and twist things however they want, that doesn't mean God has anything to do with it. You probably wonder why he doesn't do something about it, all I can say is I believe he will take care of it in the end. This world is only a short time for us, eternity lasts forever. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 5:46 PM:

" as to what native cultures talk about floods in their legends and lore, google native americans flood sometime and enjoy. "

possibiliteis wrote on Jun 28, 2007 5:44 PM:

" You act as though the history of the catholic church makes God not exist and yet you refuse to see that those in the church doing God's will are doing truly good things. Again, we could have this argument for weeks like you did with defender and no one would ever win because you hatred of God is obviously deeply ingrained "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 5:43 PM:

" I wont lie or tell you it was made up. The catholic church has a very bad reputation of past indiscretions. There are humans involved and anywhere people are involved the will of God can be lost. What you are all now doing in ganging up on me is saying some bad people in the church are what makes it bad and what makes God false. Yet I submit to you all, there are many many good people in the church, Mother Theresa, Pope John Paul II, The current pope, Many good priests and bishops etc. who are or were good and wonderful people that followed what they were supposed to, they followed God's call to be good people. Of course you all want to point to examples of the bad people as your guide becuase you are so blinded by hatred of God for whatever reason. Now you compare me to defender. While defender and I may agree on a thing or two, honestly we disagree on a lot more philosophically. Why wasn't that money used to help the poor in Africa? I can't answer that, what I can tell you is catholic churches from all over the country sponsor missions to help the poor all over the world. There is a group from Bismarck Mandan that goes to Guatemala to build houses to get families out of the slums every single year, ever heard of the God's Child project? Donations of food, clothing, and other necessary items are taken to disperse to those in need all the time. . I am sorry it blinds you to the truly good things out there. The difference between us is, at least I can see when supposed believers are doing wrong things and admit it in shame. You all can't even admit when you see the good things believers in God are doing. "

To: Check it out wrote on Jun 28, 2007 5:42 PM:

" Be very careful what you say. California is now majority Roman Catholic with a Roman Catholic Governor. The Roman Catholic Church helps Illegal Roman Catholic Aliens cross the border in violation of our laws. Soon they will control this country. In a one-person-one-vote system birth control advocates lose. Having numerous children no matter how poor wins the game. "

Check it out wrote on Jun 28, 2007 4:55 PM:

" The Magdalen Asylums were run by the Catholic Church. Check it out by looking it up on Wikapedia. women were beaten, and forbidden to speak. Many of these women were enslaved under trumped up charges. They were given no trial, and they were money makers for the Catholic Church. According to Wikipedia this went on until 1996. Tell me it is all a lie, it was just made up, it was for the women own good, it was all sanctioned by a loving God. Do some reading before you spin this one. Some of the women who finally escaped this system are alive today and have testified about the abuse at the hands of nuns. Tell me I ma lying. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 28, 2007 4:51 PM:

" You Possibilities are sounding as Bad and Ugly as Defender. Lets analyze what you wrote: possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:34 AM The Chinese have no records of a flood, well pretty much every native people of this country have records or legends of flood in their history. Many other parts of the world have the exact same story. Explain that. ?????? Well Possibilities I beg to differ with you about that. I have not seen or heard any Native American or Chinese claim that We were all killed by a flood about 6,000 years ago "

Where did the money come from wrote on Jun 28, 2007 4:46 PM:

" When the Catholic Church was called on to pay the legal damages for the sexual abuse of alter boys, the church came up with millions to pay damages. If there were millions available to pay damages, why wasn't the money used to help the poor of the world prior to the outbreak of the scandal? It is very similar to Pat Roberson living in a mansion, raising thoroughbred races horses, and having a net worth of over 600 million dollars, and then asking everyone else donate to help the poor in under developed countries. Religion is a business, a tax exempt business that sells hope. The Morman Church has assets in the billions of dollars, that could be liquidated to help the poor all over the world, but the money is not being spent. If all the money tied up in Church property in the United States were converted to doing good, or just simply providing housing for the poor, major social problems would be solved. It is hard to believe God would rather have some garish cathedral than a homeless shelter, or health care for the poor. Now, tell me we need both. Is God so egotistical that he will never get enough shrines? "

Ignore Research wrote on Jun 28, 2007 4:38 PM:

" It is well documented that condom use in Africa has been successful in stopping the spread of aids. This is an undeniable fact. Many organizations that have been willing to provide free condoms in Africa have been opposed and thwarted by the Catholic Church. To inflict suffering on the families of these people for what one adult has done makes no sense. Check out the history of the Catholic Church and the Magdalen Laundries in Ireland. You can rent a movie based on what happened. The Catholic Church enslaved women up until 1967 and these women were forced to work doing laundry for the Catholic Church. I would like to hear your spin on this. Check my spelling I probably spelled Magdalen wrong, but you can find it on the internet. If you don't think the spread of disease, and the overpopulation of poor countries is a serious problem caused in part by the Catholic Church please explain why God would be against people using condoms. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 3:37 PM:

" No one said self control is easy. As dually noted even many priests have problems with the whole notion. But self control when successfully practiced works 100% of the time. Now lets suppose birth control was advocated by the catholic church. How are said poor people in third world countries supposed to afford this? Would they want to afford it? Would it stop the spread of disease and all the other problems they have? The answer is no on all accounts so what then would happen? You think the UN is going to ride in on it's magic white horse to save the day? Yeah they have done a real good job in Africa with Aids. What I am hearing or seeing on these posts is the catholic church is responsible for all the ills of the third world becuase they dont advocate the pill. Nice try, doesn't fly. you all can live in your fantasy world now, becuase for all the whining, I see very few logical ideas to fix the problems you point out. "

A Humane Person wrote on Jun 28, 2007 2:58 PM:

" A humane person would not put cats, rats, dogs, or rabbits in a cage and let them reproduce uncontrollably. Why would the Catholic church encourage this in countries like Haiti, Brazil, and many others? If this is compassion, I want no part of it. "

Failure of Self Control wrote on Jun 28, 2007 2:55 PM:

" Knowing full well self control has never worked for population control, what is wrong with birth control? Only a fool would believe the majority of Catholics in this country are using self control, vs birth control. Why inflict on poor countries, what you will not inflict on yourself? Lack of self control is what caused the sex scandal in the Catholic church. Certainly priest knew all about self control and taught it. A simple solution would be to allow priest to marry, but instead we settle for child molesters, another splendid example of religious stubbornness causing harm. Strange that children suffer from over population because the parents lack self control. What a strange system that punishes the children for the sins of the parents. One more classic example of strange love, and logic. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 2:37 PM:

" the catholic church also says dont have sex before marraige which prevents the spread of disease, stops young single parents having kids and having to raise them on their own. yup, sure seems like that religion thing is harmful. Part of the culture in many of those countries is to have large families and be proud of them. That's not religion, that's culture. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 2:28 PM:

" I believe the catholic churches actual stance isn't have babies, it's have self control. Yes, that seems harmful. "

Why Feel Good Fantasy? wrote on Jun 28, 2007 2:03 PM:

" What is wrong with reality? I do not need a good motivation to know right from wrong. I do not need to make up a story to calm me about death. Accepting reality should not be a problem. My point is religion is actually harmful. You have the Catholic Church telling people in overpopulated poor countries not to use birth control. This leads to starvation, misery, and the spread of aids. That is a major harm done by the Church in the name of Religion. Please tell me why God would want underdeveloped countries to suffer from lack of birth control, but has no problem with advanced countries living intellegently? "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:29 PM:

" By the way, you are sooooo right, it makes me feel really good to go to church with my three kids under 5 years of age and have to chase them around the back of the church every sunday. Sounds like a good time. yup, you sure got me there. Let me also make it know, I don't have faith out of fear. I have faith becuase I have see the power of god work in my life and others. It's not about making yourself feel good, common mistake of many believers and non believers alike. Does it feel good to help people yes. Is it all about me, no. Very little about true faith is about you. But who am I kidding, we could aruge all day all year or all our lives about this topic and none of us would change our minds. you can call me naive, stupid immature, whatever you want and yet I wont change my mind. I will refrain from calling you names and simply say thank you for being good people no matter what your belief. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:18 PM:

" And yet Jesus told the rich to give up what they have and help the poor. The appostles after Jesus tried to live in a society that shared everything. Now that seems like the rich trying to control the poor to me. Again, becuase people prevert what should be a good thing you say there is no god. It's amazing. There is no god because of the existance of bad people. Where are those people that go to church with the elderly, again, that is a heck of a good question. I dont believe I ever said everyone who goes to church is good. No, there are many phonies there that do it to be see, God knows who they are, they will be taken care of when the time is right. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:14 PM:

" Why do people need to be threatened with Hell. Looking at how many people of all kinds act in this world act, Hell doesn't seem to be much of a threat now does it. Why do kids need to be threatened with punishment to follow their parent's rules? It's good that you are a good samaritan, I am glad to see it and wish there were more good people in the world. Me sitting in my church on sunday and giving my money for priest sex scandal. Wow, while I completly can understand your frustration with people who say they believe in god but then dont act like it, I am not that. My church does great things for people all over the place and all the time. that is what my money goes for. The priests and their sex scandal, All I can say is there is a very special place in hell reserved for them. I think you are right though, God does smile on you when you do good, even though you dont believe in him. Maybe one day something will happen to change that, maybe not. I guess none of us will really know until the time comes. As I said in an earlier post, I would much rather have a belief in God and be wrong, than not have a belief and be wrong about that. You dont feel that way, nothing I ever say or do could change your mind. It's just too bad there are so many fake believers out there that make the true ones look bad. "

Jesus was a Socialist wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:12 PM:

" Anyone who studied the Bible and had an once of honesty would have to admit Jesus had very socialistic ideas. However, this would not suit the needs of capitalism very well, so it became necessary to distort what Jesus said so CEO,s can say it is just fine for the to let their greed get out of hand. Now, we have a Jesus that is a hard core Republican, and surely would vote for Bush. Could you honestly imagine Jesus being on the board of directors of a major company and voting to give the CEO five hundred times what the man on the assembly line was making? Spin this one Defender. You might want to try the old "Render under Ceasar that which is Ceasar's". That always works when you use the Bible for union busting. That would be a good one Defender, Would Jesus approve of unions? "

The History of Religion wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:07 PM:

" No one could study religion and fail to conclude it was a means whereby the upper class of society tamed the people on the bottom and got them to submit to exploitation. The people on the top always told the people on the bottom it was their lot in life to suffer. India invented the cast system. In this country the poor are sucked in and told that God would want them to vote for a president that gives tax breaks to the rich. If this isn't a prime example of how religion is used to exploit the underclass nothing is. When people ask why we cannot have a sharing society, the response is the Bible said the poor will always be with us. Too bad if you happen to be one of them. Look at any religion, anywhere in the world and you will see that it is always used to keep those in power, in power. "

Mr. Possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:00 PM:

" You asked what I do. I have three elderly men in my area that need to get to Bismarck to see the doctor. All of them go to church. I haven't gone to church in most of my adult life, but I am the one who drives them to the doctor. I ask myself where are the church members they sit beside every Sunday? I do it because it is the right thing to do, I don't need Satan and the threat of hell to motivate me. I feel good doing good. I am glad to do it. It is sad that you need some fear factor to get you to behave. "

Dear Possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 11:57 AM:

" You asked what I do when I don't waste time with the God stuff. Last Sunday while you were in church, I cut the grass for an elderly lady down the street. I make it a point to do something nice for someone every Sunday, just to show you don't need religion to do what is right. With the money you donated to your church that helped pay off the priest sex scandal, I bought a poor kid some roller blades. The whole notion that you have to be scared into doing the right thing is strange to me. Why do people have to be threatened with hell in order to do what is right. If people would quit sitting in churches and do good deeds on Sundays, I think their God would smile. God told me he has seen all the stain glass windows he needs, and heard plenty of hyms. God said to me anyone can go to church on Sunday, but show me someone who will actually get up and put a roof on the neighbors house on Sunday. You are going to Church to make you feel good, it offends my God and me. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 9:30 AM:

" So tell me this, what great things are you accomplishing since you aren't wasting your time believing in God? Lots more beer drinking time there I bet. Oh, you have time coming here to whine about people that "waste" their time on God, yes that's productive. Meanwhile many, not all, who "waste" their time with God, are out helping those in need, inventing things to help humanity, trying to help people get along. Yes I see where this God is a real hinderance. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 9:24 AM:

" You are taking a conversation about the existence of God and you and using it as a basis for stupid people chaning religion to fit them? Makes sense. The egyption pyramids? Come on, first off those pyramids date back how long, 4000, 5000 years? Do we really know what their whole purpose was? Judging from many findings it appears they were for kings to be buried in as well. Imagine what they could have accomplished had they forgotten religion? What purpose would they have had to construct achitecutural masterpieces if not to build pyramids for what they were for? Art, scupture, etc. All societies used a belief in a god or multiple gods to foster creativity! selling Jesus as a black man to the southernors? Just becuase they were too stupid to realize Jesus race you will blame all Christians? Yes again makes perfect sense. Who has the open mind here again? "

What a waste wrote on Jun 28, 2007 9:05 AM:

" The Egyptians wasted hundreds of years building useless pyramids. They could have used the time to improve housing and the life of every ordinary person, but instead they dreamed up a God system and wasted the lives of thousands of people. Hundreds of years later we do the same thing. Instead of using our time and resources to go forward, we have people obsessed with building churches that stand empty most of the week. We use religion to confuse the productive minds of young people, and countless hours are spent studying a book that has no basis in reality. What if people broke away from these cults and used the time and resources productively? Just as we look back at the Egyptians and say what were they thinking, someday people will look back at us the same way. "

Fun with God wrote on Jun 28, 2007 8:58 AM:

" Once you get a successful God fantasy, it is amazing what you can do. You can convince yourself to be a suicide bomber. You can convince yourself that it is all right to go to Africa and bring back slaves to till your garden. You can be as greedy as you want and tell people it is Gods blessing. You can do and justify just about anything you want, once you become sure you know God's word. If you want to defraud old ladies of their social security checks, just get on TV and go for it. Pat Robertson has made millions, live in a great house, has race horses, and did it all with the God fantasy. "

Get Real wrote on Jun 28, 2007 8:31 AM:

" Do you really think you could have sold the Jesus story in the Southern United States if Jesus were portrayed as a black man? The fact that Jesus is portrayed as White or close to it works out great for rednecks and racist. Like I said do you think people would have owned black slaves if they thought Jesus was a black person. Your ability to ignore common sense, and reality are unparalleled. If Jesus had been a woman, the story would not have taken hold. Look at every super hero in comic books, none are black people. Why? People who sell fantasy know what sells, even in Biblical times. Has there ever been a black Pope? No, it is not good marketing. Same goes for women. No women will ever be Pope, just would not sell. The Christian God, hates women and blacks. "

Dear Possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 8:23 AM:

" The Catholic Church has inflicted suffering on millions of people for hundreds of years. The Church was duplicit in enslaving Indians in South America, and North America. Today the Catholic Church does everything it can to thwart birth control in under developed countries. The result is over population and starvation, not to mention the spread of aids. What a great organization. This is a classic case of a religion doing evil. You say oh, So what. Please explain. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:34 AM:

" I think I see why this simle God thing seems to confuse so many. In today's society there is no sense of responsibility for one's actions. If I get caught by the police for speeding was it my fault or the cop's fault for catching me? Did I have the choice to stay under the speed limit. So according to some of you, I don't have free will becuase of the government imposed speed limits. Hmm, yes that is confusing now isn't it? God wants you to act and be a certain way, he doesn't force it. plain and simple. But as I have always thought, it takes more faith to believe there is no God than it does to believe in God. The Chinese have no records of a flood, well pretty much every native people of this country have records or legends of flood in their history. Many other parts of the world have the exact same story. Explain that. Not answer the question? I have answered the questions, how much more can I dumb it down for you to make it simple enough? I'm not God, so I can't tell you how he works 100% of the time, only what I observe. As far as Jesus, he most certainly was of some skin color, he was a jew from Israel. He had olive skin, dark hair and a dark beard with a wide jewish nose. What difference does that make? Just becuase some lunatic racist who called themself a Christian decided he didn't like that decided to portray him as blonde hair and blue eyed, who cares! That's not the bible that is a lunatic. Don't confuse idiots with true believers, the differences are easy to spot. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 28, 2007 7:25 AM:

" To:All To avoid even more conflict and name calling, I'm going to evolve from NUTS and NUTS! into just Nope "

Stepper wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:44 AM:

" I do wish to add that the word religion has a lot of people confused with being a believer in God. There have always been charlatans using God's Word. In Jesus' time Pharasee's and Sadducees were constantly picking at Him and trying to get people to not follow Him. If they followed Him, they would not come to temple and give their money to the temple coffers. Now those priests liked their money and lots of it. They even sold stuff in the temple so they could make even more money from the people. In those days the people were required to make sacrifices and so they could buy that in the temple (at exorbant prices of courses). Sound familiar? Those charlatans on t.v. who beg for your money so they can take God's Word to the world? They are not doing God's work. I don't recall mention of Jesus having a Rolex on His arm, or gold sedan to carried about in or clothes of finest silk and jewelry. He did not even have a house to call His own, He stayed with family and friends or slept on the ground at night. He lived very simply and taught gently. Gosh if you send your money to TBS or Pat what his name, et al....they will pray for you and then surely you will go to heaven! Or Benny Hinn can touch you and you are healed. Look at the thousands of peole who go to these charlatans. They are hungry for God but are being fed pap and lies. Please don't paint me with the brush that you use on Charlatans of religion. I think they should be ashamed for themselves and they ar blaspheming God. They are "religion,' Believing in Jesus as your Savior is faith...big difference. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:31 AM:

" It not right to brush all people who believe in God with the same brush as you would defender. You cannot fault his zeal for God's Word and obviously he cares very much about it. Possibilities also shows a lot of care and love for God. Jesus told us that the world will not come to an end untill all people have had the chance to hear His Word. That has not happened yet. He did give us free will and the power to reason and so we use that to help us live our lives. There is so much beauty and wonderous things in this world and universe that is totally awesome. Whatever God created in the beginning stayed the same species; meaning cats did not become dogs or merge with other species, etc. Within the species there have been changes. People and animals adapt to their environment and as the environement changes so do animals and people to cope with it. Is that evolution? Yes it is. What does not change is God. He requires faith of me and I do becuase for me there is no other way. I tried it. I ran away from him for 25 years and I came back because nothing was working without Him. Now, I am better off than I was in those lost years. I have not riches or fame; I still have to work hard to make a living but I lean on Him and take comfort in knowing that He loves me and if I stay true to my belief in Him, He will take me home one day to live with Him. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:18 AM:

" Dee--------------fender (I love typing that): Where are you? Are you getting your computer fixed? Or are you learning about the up and down arrow keys? How about the backspace button? SInce you have co-opted this posting site and have claimed it as your territory, why are you being remiss in responding? Are you checking into the information I have hinted at that the author of the LIVING-FOSSILS.COM is a holocaust denier? That he is no better than Ahmadinejad of Iran in his refusal of accepting the massacre of the Jews in WWII. Oh and by the way, you are backwards in your logic of who I am. I am from ND and now live in NY. Still have a great fondness of ND as it is where I learned to question the majority opinion and was confronted with bull-headed logic such as yours. Yep- I love the Adirondacks, but (can't help it) still think that pales in comparision to the drive west on I-94 past New Salem Sue. Nothing prepares an individual for the beauty of the flat plains dipping and dropping into the rolling hills of western ND and the badlands. Especially at sunset. Perhaps this is something we can agree on? I would attribute it to a glacier and the latitude of the planet. You would attribute it to Gods Grand Intelligent Design. Which of us is right? Neither. Period. You have your subjective experience. I have mine. Can you respect that without your smug attitude of you are right and I am wrong? There is a difference between science and faith. But I don't think you understand that at all. And that, my friend, puts you in Peril. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 28, 2007 12:01 AM:

" Chinese Ceramics were first made 11,000 years ago and the history of China is well documented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_porcelain I mention this because Bad and Ugly Defender person who wallows in the worst parts of the Old Testament thinks the entire world is only 6,000 years old. China's history does not mention everyone dying in a flood five or six thousand years ago? Chinese history does not mention Noah dropping by to gather two of all the animals. Could you help out Defender or ------------------- ? I know the number of "begats" in the bible lead up to an estimate of 6,000 years but there must be another explanation of St. Matthew 1 or ( http://www.bartleby.com/108/40/1.html ) "

To : No Possibility and others wrote on Jun 27, 2007 11:27 PM:

" There have been many archeological digs in the Biblical areas and we know exactly what Jesus Looked like in life. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282186.html "

Breaker of Promises wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:57 PM:

" Go back and read how the defender promised answers, then look at how he has evaded them. A great man of God. If he cannot answer a question, he just deems it unworthy. Great man of God "

Confused wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:53 PM:

" Defender, the Bible says I can pick up snakes if I believe in God and not be bitten. Can I pick up a rattlesnake safely if I believe in God? I am confused. Remember you promised answers. Don't spin this one. "

Love your logic wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:50 PM:

" You have free will? If you don't agree with God you are going to hell, but God is not forcing to accept his work, only telling you, you will go to hell if you don't. That is like saying a bank teller has free will not to hand over the money to the robber. The robber is giving the bank teller a choice. So it is his free will to hand over the money or not. God set up a system that if you don't accept his word you go to hell, and you are free to make the choice. What a loving guy. The bank robber is just as good a person. It is the teller in you logic who decides if a robbery takes place. Absolutely crazy. "

No Possibility wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:41 PM:

" When you give Defender and Possibility a simple question, there is no possibilty you will get an answer that deals with the question. These two are incapable of grasping the question. Doesn't seem to take much to stump the Defender. What about that promise for answers Defender? What if Jesus were Black, would you believe in him? Try a yes or no. Look in the mirror when you answer this one. To possibilities, try answering the question that was asked. Of course the Bible isn't confusing to the Defender, God tells him exactly what it says. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:24 PM:

" Let me put it another way. I go through my life and I believe in God, I am a Catholic so I believe in Christ. Go to church on Sundays, help those in need, raise my children. Then I die. Now Lets say those that doubt there is a God are right and that is the end of it. What did I lose in my life becuase of my faith in God? I lived a good and caring life, helped people, raised good kids. Seems like I really didn't lose a thing. Now, lets say I am right and there is heaven and hell and you dind't do anything in your life for god so you go to hell. What did you lose for your non-belief? Well you get to spend an eternity in hell. I think I will take faith in God just to be on the safe side thank you. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:15 PM:

" You dont go to hell based on what those people do, you can change your own course. It's free will! I have free will to believe in a god, you have free will not to. He isn't going to force you to change your mind nor am I. How does that not make sense. It's like when you have kids. You teach them values and how to live to be good people, but eventually they are on their own and have free will. Once they are on their own, they are going to do what they are going to do though. How does that not make sense? As for the bible being confusing, etc. It's only that way to people who want it to be that way. You can take the text out of context to form pretty much any statement you want. God wont stop anyone from doing it becuase he controls no one. FREE WILL is the concept many seem to need to have a better grasp of here. Gods will is that none should perish but all join him, he wont force that though. "

To: What if Jesus were a Black Person? wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:09 PM:

" Well finally someone is making sense. Science tells us that all Humans came from Africa. It is hotter and people are darker to protect against the ultraviolet rays. Black people reflect up to 85 percent of the ultraviolet spectrum. White people reflect about 15 percent of ultraviolet. Speculation is that the Garden of Eden was at least in Ethiopia. If the original people were Black, and women are the givers of life? And then we are created in God's image. Obviously God is a Black Woman. Think about where Jesus was born. He had to be a little dark. If he had Blond Hair and Blue Eyes no one would need to put a bounty on him in order to identify him. There were light skinned slaves that the Vikings took in Baltic Sea areas and sold to the Byzantine Empire. The "Slavic" areas were named for one favorite area where Vikings took slaves. Some conspiracy theory type might have fun with it but so far Jesus was typical of people in Galilee 2,000 years ago and God was and is a Black Woman. "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 9:32 PM:

" To: Who do you want? Sorry, shows such a lack of knowledge, that we'll have to wait for you to evolve a little more. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 9:27 PM:

" To: Why is it confusing? Show Book, Chapter and Verse from Bible you don't understand, or contradicts, or confuses you. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 9:23 PM:

" To: What if Jesus were a Black Person- This comment qualifies for dumbest of last 500 comments. "

Jindo wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:47 PM:

" --------- said: 'I get NUTS'. The Devil, you say! "

Dear Possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:37 PM:

" According to you, a few people did something wrong in God's eyes a couple thousand years ago, now God is going to send millions of people to hell because of a crime they played no part in. Sounds like the strangest idea of a loving fair God I have ever heard of, and as I said makes absolutely no sense. Logic does not seem to be a requirement for understanding in the world of fundies. "

What if Jesus were a Black Person? wrote on Jun 27, 2007 6:15 PM:

" If Jesus were portrayed as a Black person, the whole game would be different. You can bet the Defender would be a Buddhist. You can bet the whole Christian thing would never have sold. Isn't is just dandy that we are a white nation, and ended up with a white God, who had a white son? It sure would have made integration a lot easier if Jesus had been a black person. Slavery would have been a lot less of a problem if Jesus had been black. Why would a loving God make Jesus white, when black would have worked out just as good if not better. Spin this one Defender, or maybe you better just say nuts and leave it alone. Remember your promise yesterday to get answers? "

Why is it confusing? wrote on Jun 27, 2007 6:10 PM:

" The Bible is the most contradictory, hard to understand, confusing book ever written. This is proven by the fact that no one can agree on what it says or how you are supposed to live according to the Bible. Why was the Bible written in such an unreadable way if God wanted people to know his word, and understand his intentions. It is very clear from this comment section that the Bible is very confusing. Why would a loving God make his word so confusing, knowing full well it could result in millions going to hell. Makes no sense. Now the defender will say it it perfectly clear, even though no two people here can agree what it says or means. Someone will come up with some other reason it "Needs to be confusing". If it were easy fill in the blank. This is all so silly, how do people buy it. It is the word of God, who are we to question it? This is unadulterated insanity. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 5:46 PM:

" You are right, millions will go to hell. God did that becuase of the sin of the first people he created. He created the angels to and some of them rebelled. They are no longer in Heaven. God wants people in heaven who want to be there of their own free will. You know, like you want friends around who want to be your friend becasue of who you are not how much money you have? Makes sense to me "

Makes Absolutely No Sense wrote on Jun 27, 2007 5:25 PM:

" God made the rules to the game. Under the rules God made, millions will go to hell. God is a loving God. God could have made the rules anyway he wanted, but he choose a set of rules that would result in millions going to hell. God is a loving God. Why could God not have just made the qualification for heaven, dying. Why did he come up with all these silly rules like baptism? A loving God would set the rules to the game so as many people as possible could have gotten to heaven. There are so many simple things God could do to increase the population of heaven. "

Who Do You Want? wrote on Jun 27, 2007 5:19 PM:

" If you were on an airplane having problems flying who would you want for a pilot? A person trained in science, but an atheist, or a person from the Defender School of logic? Would you want a doctor working on you that went to the Defenders Medical School where evolution is not taught, or a doctor that attended a school dedicated to the science of medicine. You never hear of a Medical school dedicated to the faith of medicine. The Snake handlers back in the hills have the guts to practice their faith. The Bible says "Yee shall handle serpents and not be bitten". The Defender says every word of the Bible is true. When and where is the Defender going to handle Rattlesnakes. The Defender doesn't really believe, or he would announce the location. Make fun of the snake handler, but they are more honest than the Old Defender. Of course once the Defender puts his spin on it , the Bible will turn out to actually say something else. Right Defender. "

-------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 4:52 PM:

" To: Jindo- I owe an apology to the real Mike. Sorry about that Mike. I get NUTS. "

possibilites wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:45 PM:

" I disagree with defender on the second part of your comment strait. I believe if someone hears the work of God and rejects it, they wont go to heaven. But they have to have heard the true word of God to make the choice. There are people all over the world who have never heard of God or Christ or anything of the sort. Will God punish them for that? Certainly not. Could God punish his "followers" for not doign enough to help the poor in the world, I think the bible is pretty clear he will as noted in several parables of Christ. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:42 PM:

" I believe God would like those that truly believe and follow him would help the poor and starving. Pretty much the message of jesus in the new testament. free will again though, he's not going to force someone to do what he wants them to do. Wouldn't it be nice if God would just control our lives for us? get rid of that pesky free will. Oh wait, if that happened, those of you that dont believe in him would have to believe in him, guess that would be terrible. "

Let me get this strait wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:15 PM:

" I see someone suffering. I don't help them unless they ask for help. This seems like a very strange way for a loving God to act. Children suffer and die and God does not intervene, because according to the fundies, they did not ask. I just don't get it. The next great puzzle is all the people who are going to hell, because they are not Christians. About two thirds of the people on the planet will go to hell, because of God's carefully crafted, loving plan for humanity. This is the good old loving God of the Defender. None of this makes a bit of sense, until you divorce yourself from all logic and reason, and accept a new definition of love. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:10 PM:

" To **IT Happens**: Please edit the tone of your comment and submit it again. "

God Agrees with the Defender wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:10 PM:

" It never fails to amaze me that God and the Defender agree on so much. The most amazing is that God turns out to primarily have Republican values. Guess who else does? Yup the Old Defender. Gods ability to end up with the same values of the person interpreting his word is quite a coincidence. What we have is a God of convenience. God turns out to pretty much agree with who ever interprets his word. If you want slaves, like they did pre Civil War, no problem, God agrees. If you want to dominate your wife, now problem God agrees. If you like capital punishment, God agrees. If you want to bomb Iraq, God agrees. It can all be found in the scripture if you will just take the time to read the scripture and understand that it agrees with you. The Defender is the best case in point ever made. No matter what you want, it is in the Bible if you will just look hard enough. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:06 PM:

" Adnan Oktar (AKA Harun Yahya) in a nutshell: a figure in Turkish creationism, and a fervent advocate of creationism in the creation vs. evolution debate. He is considered the leading Muslim advocate of creationism. He is an anti-zionist and anti-mason which he sees as very interrelated movements. He and his organization are also regarded as a cult and are very controversial in Turkey. He is also accused of establishing and leading a criminal organization. In 1979 he moved to Istanbul to study interior design at Mimar Sinan University but did not graduate. Oktar published the book, Judaism and Freemasonry which suggests that the principal mission of the Jews and freemasons in Turkey was to erode the spiritual, religious and moral values of the Turkish people. Oktar asserts that "the materialist standpoint, evolution theory, anti-religious and immoral lifestyles were indoctrinated to the society as a whole" by Jews and Freemasons. This is the man behind LIVING-FOSSILS.com. He has no scientific training. He was once imprisoned in a mental facility for 19 months. His work has been described as "not logical." Go-look at the LIVING-FOSSILS.com website. Go with an open mind and look at all the "evidence" put together by this man. Then look him up on Wikipedia. There is a very well-sourced entry with a lot of external links. Go! GO! Seek the truth.....Just please don't drink the Kool-aid. "

Absolutely no sense wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:01 PM:

" God will let people suffer because they don't ask for help. Ok, a child is starving in Africa, his parents did not ask the Christian God in America for help, so the child must suffer. Along comes the defender and a bunch of other fundies to tell us this is how a loving God works. Makes not a bit of sense. God did not put tetsie flies anywhere but Africa. This shows he can choose where he puts things. Now the people in Africa suffer from blindness because of this fly. Why did God inflict this on them? The ways of God are mysterious. Give me a break. It makes no sense, why can't you admit it instead of resorting to the mumbo Jumbo jazz. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 27, 2007 3:00 PM:

" Hey again Bad and Ugly Defender----------------- Here is a little more Old Testament that directly contradicts the New Testament. Which do you believe? Numbers 35 : 33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 27, 2007 2:37 PM:

" Hey Bad and Ugly Defender----------------- God also orders the death by stoning of anyone who curses. Leviticus 24 : 14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 27, 2007 2:14 PM:

" Hey Bad and Ugly Defender--------------- there is a long list of people to be killed in Leviticus 20 verse 9 through 27. How do you feel about the death penalty for all this. 27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood shall be upon them. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 27, 2007 1:41 PM:

" You Bad and Ugly Defender or ---------------------------- did not answer the question. The Old Testament says: Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. " Do not dodge around the question. You are evasive on a simple direct question like this? Obviously there are parts of the Old Testament that cannot be Defended. Obviously all the Witches that were burned back then and during the middle ages were innocent victims of people like you. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 27, 2007 1:22 PM:

" why not has the easiest question to answer in this entire blog. God allows things to happen to you to test your faith. You have free will to choose what you do or dont want to do and he isn't going to force you to do anything, therefore he wont force what he wants on you. It's up to you to ask for help. "

Why not answer wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:29 AM:

" This is a simple question Defender, why will you not answer it. Why does God punish everyone for something a few people did over two thousand years ago? Why or how could that be a fair, loving, caring God? Question two. If people are suffering, why do you have to pray to God to do something about it, why doesn't God just do something about the suffering without being asked? Answer in simple English without your usual run around. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:17 AM:

" To: Stepper Jun 27, 2007 8:32-- Some very good points. I'll drop the bunny joke, it's getting a little tiring to me too. I have to have some way of responding to some of the absurd statements coming my way. I have been on this disfunctional computer for 12-16 hours a day. I have to respond to rediculous statements, but not waste everyones time explaining them. I will use NUTS, and if its really absurd, I'll add exclamation point ! I'm not going to evolve any further than that. May still try to add humor to illustrate some of those statements. I have appointment tomorrow to fix computer. Thank you for making some good points. "

MamaMia wrote on Jun 27, 2007 10:12 AM:

" Once again, can we please put this lame blog to bed? The wackos are coming out of the woodwork. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 9:45 AM:

" To: Jindo- I forgot. No I don't owe Mike money. But I do like humorous responses such as yours. Thanks, all of us could use a chuckle about now. Where I'm heading with this? 1 There are no errors in Bible. 2 Evolution of species, never happened. 3 Evolution "theory" correctly stated is; "We came from mush, strongest mush rules. 4 Teaching that correctly stated "theory", leads to death mentality. 5 Applying "theory" always leads to death of humans. 6 You have been brainwashed with wrong interpretation of first amendment. "Supreme court should NOT be involved in matters of religion, as founders intended. They never mentioned the "supreme court being involved in religios decisions for a reason,. They couldn't even imagine people being stupid enough to allow 5 lawyers in Washington telling 300 MILLIOON people how to practice or not practice their personal beliefs. 8? can't see. 8 They knew that if the "supreme court got involved in matters of religion, 5 lawyers could tell us to follow government religion we have now, ie, "theoWe came from mush, strongest mush rules. 9 Following God's truth that we learn folloing 2 simple rules for interpreting it leads to better life, better science. 10 You make the choice as to whether you go to heaven or hell, based on evidence, etc. Would add more, but can't see what I.m typing. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 27, 2007 9:13 AM:

" To: Jindo-- Thank you for responding. My "theory " that you were Mike was proved wrong. I just didn't have enough "evidence" and jumped to a wrong conclusion, exactly as you "evolutions" are doing. So much for some "theory's." If I would ask more questions and look for more evidence, I'll bet I could nail down your name. Such as what letter of the alphabet, does your name start with? "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:56 AM:

" To: NYxND Jun 26 6:52 PM - We can prove that these "scientists" are still doing the fakery,etc. Piltdown man was used in the scopes trial, but was proved to be hoax in 1953. These "scientists" have been searching for decades for proof of their "theory", but have not come up with one fossil of proof, out of 100 MILLION fossils found. But the government forcibly takes the Christian "theory" out of schools and, forces us to teach their "theory." I've answered dozens of questions for all of you. I'll ask you one NXxND. Why won't you look at LIVING-FOSSILS.com, and then report back? and "why would I waste my time looking at nonsense" won't be a good answer. That only gets you bunny joke. Hey I can shorten up my replys even more and just say "bunny joke" to stupid replys. I predict that you NYxND will be one of these replys. Now go read and study so you can prove my latest "theory" wrong. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:39 AM:

" To: It happens- Just when we were getting serious, a moron rejoins the post's. I wonder why your son believes in evolution? You and the government schools have been teaching him that "nonsense." 9 lawyers, well actually 5 out of 9, say 300 MILLION of us can't present the Creation side, so he's never heard that side, duuu. Also the Bible should not be taught by all these non-believers and others who haven't studied it. You read the Bible in class, and then study it using rule 1 and 2. You read a verse, then apply rule 2 does it agree or not with other Scripture? Students can read and compare. To, God having mommy and daddy, you get a MILL, no lets make that a BILLION "My butt hurts." "What" "

Stepper wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:32 AM:

" To ---------------- I was mistaken in my years for Adam (never multitask when on the computer). I have mentioned to you several times that your coarseness, ridicule and rudness does not serve God's Word. That still holds true. You have been correct (in my opinion) on many of the things you post; however, you constant ridicule and bad manners are nullifying everything you say. When you teach about God's Word, you are supposed do it in the manner that Jesus taught, He showed us how to teach. Yes He did get after the nonsense going on in the temple and drove them out because they were doing man's business in God's House. He did name the unbelievers who ridicules them what they were; however, He forgave them. This blog is no longer about disavoing God or evolution vs. religion..it has become -------------- trying to make people see his way and others just prodding him on and all any of you are doing is making fun of God which is your right to do. It is a shame that ----------------- does not use his knowledge (which is very impressive) to more good than to trade insults with unbelievers on a blog. One more thing -------------------- that little saying you put at the end of your discourse about the rabbits is disgusting but what I would expect of someone who thinks he is better than anyone else. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing "

How does this work? wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:30 AM:

" Everyone says Ok to the Old Testament. Most buy the New Testament. Now along come the Mormons and they say God sent another book. Their contention is no more preposterous than the other ones, How come most people don't buy their sales pitch. Put another way, why did God stop sending updates? Oh mighty defender, all knowing, all mighty man of God, I beseech thee in the name of all that is confusing, please answer. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:23 AM:

" To: aveteran- It doesn't matter what Madison said. It matters, how many of his ideas the founders agreed on, and then put in the actual constitution. There were a lot of things said by all of them, some were accepted and some were rejected. Thats why we don't waste our time looking and going by what all these men said, like you are doing. We just look at the final draft, at the statements, most of them agreed upon. The founders agreed that together, they knew better than just Madison. It's not what I think, its what the constitution says.The "supreme court" are the ones prohibiting the free exercise of religion. It's you people who are teaching one religious text over all others and excluding others. It's that childrens coloring book with all those drawings in it of an ape walking along bent over with arthritus, and as he walks he must be stuffin vitamins down his mouth, because pretty soon he's walking standing up. Are thes actual photos or just imaginary drawings? And , where is the proof it happened that way? "

Abandon Reason at Your Own Peril wrote on Jun 27, 2007 8:13 AM:

" Once you decide to abondon reality, you are off on an adventure that can lead you and a lot of people like you into a new world of hate, destruction, war, and all the other fun things that come from the spread of ignorance. Religion is the most widespread fantasy, and the only one sanctioned by many societies. History has show that the more influence religion has in a society, the more backward it is. One need only look at primitive tribes, or Iran to see this in action. Why would anyone encourage this blight of mental illness in our country? No one suffer like the poor from religion. Poor people reproduce like rats in third world countries because religious people tell them birth control is evil. The net result is starvation. Aids spreads because religious people are against condoms. Instead of teaching people useful information missionaries go to other countries and fill peoples heads with nonsense. The world would be a better place without the religious nuts spreading their mental problems. "

Reality Does not phase them wrote on Jun 27, 2007 7:51 AM:

" Newsweek just reported 41% of Americans think Saddam was behind 911. As more evidence has come out to show that Saddam had nothing to do with it the percentage has actually gone up. This is a good indication there is a large percent of Americans unaffected by facts and reality. When you do research you can find that there is a hard core of ignorant people that makes up about 28% of our population. Swaying this bunch is fairly easy. Television preachers, dictators, and a host of other people know they can come to power by using this reservoir of fools. The defender is the poster child for this group. Look at the bill of goods he has been sold. These people pose the biggest danger to our country. Educating these people to get them away from their cult like mind set is far more important than fighting terrorism. Most blood baths in history started when someone manipulated the hard core ignorant to their advantage. "

aveteran wrote on Jun 27, 2007 1:36 AM:

" to -------------------------: As I stated in my earlier post, Madison was the primary author of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Madison stated SEVERAL TIMES there IS a separation of church and state. Are you saying the author doesn't know what he intended when he wrote it? Do you know better than Madison what he meant? I'll have to take his word over yours. Now, perhaps you can try a legitimate justification of why the Bible should be taught in schools to the exclusion of all other religious texts, and over the objections of those who do not believe in it. Isn't that "prohibiting the free exercise" of the beliefs of non-Christians? Sounds like the typical Christian double standard - if the Koran were taught you'd probably be screaming from the rooftops. But take solace in the fact I'd probably join you in that case. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 12:31 AM:

" To: Answer Defender June 26 2007 3:39 PM i know I answered first question, just hasn't been posted I'd guess. After Adam and Eve sinned, the whole system was turned upside down. 1 Death came 2 Animals started killing each other for food 3 The snakes took their shoes off 4 Man went into Sin with a capital S Animals started to become extinct 5 All those weeds 6 Man turned to his own lusts and religions 7 Flies and mosquitoes and such, weeds too, were a part of the curse God put on the earth for man's disobedience Deu. 11:28 Proverbs 3:33 Isaiah 24:6 Jerimiah 44:22 Daniel 9:11 Especially - Malachi 2:2. "

------------------ wrote on Jun 27, 2007 12:07 AM:

" To: Stepper-- June 26, 2007 4:01 PM. Thanks "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 27, 2007 12:02 AM:

" To: Computer Upgrade- Some more ref. material from answersingenesis.org. How about carbon dating?-----How can we see distant stars in a young universe? Creation: Where's the proof? Searching for the 'magic bullet' A young earth---its not the issue Please go to www.answersingenesis.org or call at 1-800-778-3390. Please look at all the evidence, your eternal soul is at stake. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 11:01 PM:

" To: To Nodak John June 26, 2007 2:47 PM- Thanks for the tip. There really are problems with carbon dating and isotope dating "theory's." Please go to answersingenesis.org. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 10:55 PM:

" To: t.g.t.b.a.t.u. Jun 26,2007 2:31 PM- Just read the old testament, there were a lot of bad people back then, including witches. Satan and 1/3 of the angels became evil spirits, called demons, and entered into people to make then act crazy and do unbelievable bad things, Just as you are seeing more and more people doing today. What have the two different time periods in common. Way back people were following religion, just as now. The further a person gets from God, the easier it is for a demon to enter into them. Always apply rule 1 and rule 2 when reading and interpreting Scripture. You get "My butt hurts." "What" "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 26, 2007 10:34 PM:

" To: Stepper June 26,2007 1:40 PM-God's plan was to have all of us live forever, and we still do.Only He gives us a few decades to read His word and look at all the evidence. Then He sends us to where we choose to go, heaven, or hell. Adam lived 130 years before He had his first son. Genesis 5:3. And lived another 800 years after that and had a lot of kids, Genesis 5:4. For a total of 930 years, Genesis 5:5. Jesus had not come to earth yet in the time of Adam and Eve.So you couldn't just accept Him and have your sins forgiven. Different dispensation ie Innocence vs Grace, which is dispensation we live in now. I doen't know how God finally delt with Adam. Hopefully we'll see him in heaven. You deserve two, but I'll only give you one, "My butt hurts." "What" "

Jindo wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:49 PM:

" My name is not Mike, and in my first post I addressed Bill, because I saw Bill Knox the author of the editorial. Nor do I need reading glasses, so will not put any on, no matter how passionately you demand it of me. I agree that a the only theory worth its salt is a theory supported by evidence, but I confess I do not know where you're going with this. I just thought of something... do you owe Mike money? Because if you do, you know, I'll be Mike if you like :) "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:35 PM:

" I'MMMM BACCCCCK! I know ya all missed me didn't ya? Ya know over my busy weekend at my satanic youth rally we were discussing this very topic. Just Kidding we weren't really discussing it. I did however ask my son what he thought about evolution vs creationism, and believe it or not I was on the creationism side. I said do you believe GOD made everything we now see before us? "No" was his reply "god didnt make the houses dad". "Ahhh" I said "but god made us and therefore god made the houses, and he made the universe and earth and animals to don't you think?" "Ok dad but then where did GOD come from?" I said "I don't know he was just always there I guess." To which he replied "well don't you think it would say something somewhere about where he comes from? Doesn't he have a mommy and daddy? He can't just BE there dad that sounds dumb." Truly fascinating the mind of a child. Even at such a young age or 10 he can see through the Bull. It goes to show you that there is no such thing as FACT in the bible. It's a book of faith and that is it. In defenders own words "if we can't find someone to explain it, we'll take it by faith" I just love it when people stick there own feet in there own mouths. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 26, 2007 6:52 PM:

" So Nodak John, what did your "investigation of 'what in the world are these boys up to?'" reveal? And can this humorous anecdote of which you write be confirmed in any way? Sounds like some story overheard at the New World Order Cafe to me. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 26, 2007 4:01 PM:

" I am correcting myself...Adam lived 130 years, not the 900 I said earlier. I am sorry for the error. "

A Hobbyiest not Geologist wrote on Jun 26, 2007 3:59 PM:

" NoDak John. You Mention: ONE petrified tree standing there through millions of years of sediment. I would suggest you additionally visualize a petrified tree (old dead tree that has had its wood fibers replaced by minerals in the water) lying out in the open like in Teddy R. Park. Now visualize it being buried again by erosion over many many winters. An earth-slide could cause a pond that would eventually fill up with silt with each layer of winter runoff and bury it. Or it could slowly move down the side of an eroding hill. Visualize a rock that falls from the top of the Grand Canyon to the bottom and gets buried. Geology is tough and unforgiving to those who write down what they seem to see to quickly. There are places in the Rocky Mountains where the rock layers have turned upside down from "plate tectonic forces". If the world was perfect is would not be so interesting. Back to Religion for a minute. In the 1925 Scopes - Evolution trial no one won or lost. They all gave up because very intelligent dignified people were beginning to sound silly. The higher court dismissed it on a technicality without giving a hearing. Really smart dignified people do not want to sound silly. Geologists are like weathermen: not afraid to be wrong on occasion. Jesus taught in parables. It would be better to think of many Old Testament Stories as parables. The Garden of Eden for example. "

Answer Defender wrote on Jun 26, 2007 3:39 PM:

" Why don't you give some simple answers. Why did God punish he whole human race for what two people did? Why did God make flies? How are you so sure you are right and every other God belief in the world is wrong? Why do you have to pray and ask God to do the right thing? Why can't God do what is right without being asked? I have asked this many times, and you have never answered. I suppose your butt is sore again? Why did God make mosquitoes knowing full well they would cause malaria? "

Computer Upgrade! wrote on Jun 26, 2007 3:25 PM:

" To: ----------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:12 PM . . . . . Maybe you are having problems with your computer because it is "as old as dirt" or in your Bibical vernacular - 6000 years old. "

To NoDak John wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:47 PM:

" I understand your concern. Even exhaust gasses from automobiles burning "fossil fuels" have caused date problems. Grass growing alongside the highway that dates back thousands of years for example. Any erosion over a dig would cause dating problems. Hard to remove all of it. "

--------------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:44 PM:

" To: Lets Put Satan in Courthouse-- Please don't smoke that stuff. You can already see what it does to you. "My Butt Hurts." "What" "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:32 PM:

" To: NoDak John Jun 26, 2007 1:14 Editor, could we just automatically repost this letter once a day. So the truth might come shining through every day. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:31 PM:

" You Defender---------------- Bad and Ugly person continue to wallow in the worst parts of the Old Testament. Not once do you teach the good words of Jesus. You claim every word is correct. So how do you feel about killing Witches. Here is the Chapter and Verse. Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:08 PM:

" To: Try Aluminum Foil: Sounds like Ken? is back. And I like it. That is funny. Wait, that could be Bazzz. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:40 PM:

" to --------------; If God did not forgive them, why did Adam live to be 900 some years old and continue to be fruitful and multiply? It is from his line that Jesus is descended from and you would have us believe that God let His Son come from a line that had no hope of forgiveness? God talked to Cain and Abel. Cain was given another chance at life by God. God even put His mark on Cain so no one would kill him. No forgiveness? When God is talking about dead in sin, He is talking about the perfection that man was created in is gone because of sin. Yes, man is condemned to death because of sin but Jesus dying on the cross changed that and man has forgiveness if he accepts Jesus as his Savior. So are you saying that Adam and Eve did not go to heaven when they died? If they were not forgiven they could not have gone there. You really are doing a disserve to God's Word and you are distorting it for those who do not know. I would encourgae anyone to read the Bible and the science books..they really do go hand in hand. "

Read What you write Defender wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:30 PM:

" In your own writing you are so contradictory. First you say all of the Bible is true, than you say if challenged you will prove it. Then you you say if you cannot prove it you have some buddies that are smarter than you that can prove it. Then you say if they can't prove it, "We will just take it on faith". Using your system I can prove the Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter, or any book you would like. "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:24 PM:

" To: Jindo- I started calling you Mike because, I was testing a "theory." You sounded like a guy I worked with for almost 20 years, named Mike. Also another fact, you called me Bill. I was basing my "theory" on the evidence, I had taken in through my senses. Theory's are helpful in science. A lot of great scientific breakthrough's are discovered this way. That doesn't mean all "theory's are correct or incorrect. If you turn out to not be Mike, then my "theory" turned out to be wrong. I'll have to abandon it. If you turn out to be Mike, then my "theory" turned out to be right. That doesn't mean all "theory's are right. I have another "theory" which could be either right or wrong. It is, -- The Mike I knew woud admit if his name is Mike. Is your name Mike? "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:14 PM:

" I enjoy watching a good dance. I saw a dozy in Colorado. They had a major dig up there in the NW corner of Colorado. The Experts had dug through layer after layer of sediment and had dated their way down through their dig. They had to shut down the site for the winter, but were anxious to uncover many more millions of years of sediment. When they returned to the site the next spring, they found that the face of their dig had sloughed a huge amount of material. The necessity of having to clean out all this debris was quickly solved because there was ONE petrified tree standing there through millions of years of sediment. They couldnt have any of that showing, so they dynamited the site. Problem solved. That bit of science they performed awakened me to the fact that these boys have an agenda, and pure science was not in the game. That started my investigation of what in the world are these boys up to? To me science is a pure thing. You do not bend observations to fit your mold. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:12 PM:

" To: I meant God, not Goddience. I can't see past a certain point, what I'm typing so I can't correct errors. And when I try to correct, it even gets more jumbled. I've got to get this computer fixed. "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 26, 2007 1:08 PM:

" To: All- I meant 5,000 not 5. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 26, 2007 11:27 AM:

" Websters defines a FACT as: the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY something that has actual existence b : an actual occurrence a piece of information presented as having objective reality. It defines FAITH as: belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs Defender keeps talking about how science and the bible conflict (science = death). He is confused by stating that his faiths are true, and are FACTS. As you can see by the definitions above, facts and faith are by definition in opposition. Again I disavow Defender. I disavow Defender's interpretation of religion/faith and I disavow Defender's "science." I am not in peril. We keep hearing over and over here that "if you repeat something long enough...." Well, Theory of Evolution HAS NOT been repeated nearly as often as the myths and religious stories, so please, enough of that. Maybe Defender needs to take a break and get some fresh air? I am starting to get worried.... "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 11:25 AM:

" To: Stepper- You are the one who has the error my friend. Adam and Eve did not follow God after they left the "garden of eden." God didn't forgive them. He kicked them out of "paradise." Sentenced them to death. One of their own son's killed one of their other son's. All mankind has been sentenced to death, because of Adam and Eve's disobedience. We've had those pesky weeds since. God also put a curse on the earth as well. Killing and eating animals, and them killing and eating each other is not the way God intended the system to be.All the cruelty and death including of the animals, is because of disobedience to Goddience. Romans 5:19 Eph. 2:2 Eph. 5:6 Col: 3:6 Hebrews 2:2. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 11:04 AM:

" To: All- Its strange to me and MILLIONS of others, what people like some of you can't see.ie; The first amendment is being interpreted by millions, even 5 out of the 9 on the "supreme court" ( 4 interpret the first amendment, correctly.) in an incorrect manner. Exactly the opposite of what it says and the founding fathers intended. Thus, we have exactly what the founding fathers tried to prevent. A government religion, "evolution," being forced on the people. The "supreme court," like the founders intended, should stay out of matters of religion. And we wouldn't have all this turmoil. Let the people in the local areas decide what they wsnt, and then if a majority of the people in that area don't want that, then we can vote it out,, from that area. Not 5 lawyers sitting 5, miles away . "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 26, 2007 10:39 AM:

" To: Lets hear it Defender.- As usual. you haven't been listening. 1 I do not have any religion. 2 A lot of religions claim they are the correct one. 3 God's Word, the Holy Bible has a Satan, 4 God's Word is not a religion, it is truth. God's word is different from religion, as the Bible is true. I say again to anyone, Give me any verse of Scripture from the Bible that is not true. Book ,Chapter, and Verse. From the Bible. I will answer, and if I can't I know someone who knows ten times as much as I do about Scripture. And if we can't find someone to explain it, we'll take it by faith, because we see everything else God said is true. We will never find someone who knows all there is to know about God. If you include your interpretation of what it says be prepared for a " I got a sore butt." "What.? "

Classic Double Standard wrote on Jun 26, 2007 10:10 AM:

" When a fundy ask that you believe some silly myth, that is just polite conversation. When a normal person ask a fundy to face reality, that is bashing, insulting, and mean. The fantasy world is fun, many people are addicted to video games. In the game you use your imagination, and you pretend things are happening. The Bible was the first fantasy game. The technology was rudimentry, but the idea was the same. You have an Evil guy "Satan", and you have a good guy "Jesus". They both have magical powers and fight. Try doing some video gaming and you can have more fun. "

Lets hear it Defender wrote on Jun 26, 2007 9:20 AM:

" How is your religion so different? Many religions promise salvation. Many religions claim they are the only correct one. Many religions have a Satan figure. Many religions have a divine book. Speak out, how is yours So differet? As usual when you get stumped why don't you tell a joke? "

Lets Put Satan in Courthouse wrote on Jun 26, 2007 9:17 AM:

" According to the old Defender if 90% of people agree on it, it is correct. Therefore it would seem that if 90% of the public wanted Satanic symbols in the courthouse, it would be the thing to do. Same would go for the schools etc. What is you take on this Defender? The Defender's concept that facts are determined not by science, but by a popular vote, strikes me as strange. During elections we should have a list of facts we vote for, this would make fact finding simple. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 26, 2007 9:14 AM:

" To --------------: I was merely pointing out from your post that God drove Adam and Eve out of the garden. They did not "go their own way." He forced them out of the garden, away from the tree of life but they certainly followed him after they left the garden. God forgave them and He blessed them. The Adamic line is where Jesus came from, his ancestry can be followed back to Adam. May I suggest you read with a little more discernment, I was not disagreeing with you, I was merely pointing a small error of your statement. There is no need to capitalize letters at me. Your sarcasm and ridicule in your answers does not serve God and you know it. WWJD. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:52 AM:

" To: Shopping, please help- You said, - " All religions seem the same to you." Now I understand why you make other absurd statements. "My butt hurts." "What?" "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:46 AM:

" To: Jindo Mike- Absolutely wrong interpretation of first amendment. If 100% of the people in any size community want to express how they believe, 9 lawyers in Washington say no you can't. Or if 51% of these people say they would like to express to others and themselves how they feel, 9 lawyers in Washington say, no.Founding fathers did not mention "supreme court " in matters of religion, because they couldn't even imagine American people being so stupid, as to let 9 lawyers tell 300 MILLION people, no you can't express anywhere on "your" public buildings in "your" little areas your beliefs. This really makes everyone in those areas mad. And then turn around in these "same" areas and "force" people to teach the "government" religion of "evolution." You also get "My butt hurts." "What." "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:30 AM:

" To: Science says- I agree. --- answersingenesis.org more science- LIVING-FOSSILS.com. "

Shopping, please help wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:26 AM:

" Dear Defender, I am shopping for a religion. They all seem alike to me, but you seem to know which ones are made up, and which is the real one. How can I tell. They all have a book they say is true, they all have profits and Jesus like figures, most of them have a good Satan like figure. It seems to me wise to select a religion that is most popular in the country you live in. I live in India, so I am thinking Hindu would be nice. Is it most important to be like everyone else in your country, or go off on your own and choose a foreign religion? When you get the right one, how do you know? How can I tell a cult from a religion? To save money, I would like to go with a religion that charges less than ten percent. Are there any discount religions you would recommend. I like to drink occasionally so I need, a religion with a strong communion wine. "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:26 AM:

" To: Jindo alias Mike- You can see why I have to shorten my answers to get away from making rediculous answers to rediculous questions. I meant you, Don't allow even a "theory" of creation to be compared along side of "theory" of "evolution." Must be tired. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:14 AM:

" To: All- There is a way to cut down on senseless statements begetting satirical answers from me. I am no scientist. So all science inferences, whether good or bad, will be referred to two or more actual science sites. So you don't have to take your information from a non-scientist, such as myself. They are LIVING-FOSSILS.com, and " answersingenesis.org." The ranting and raving will be answered by the shortened version of the rabbit joke. ie- What did the rabbit with the sore butt, say to the rabbit with the bad ear? To just, "My butt hurts." --------"What." Some answers may contain both references. "

Try Aluminum Foil wrote on Jun 26, 2007 8:09 AM:

" When I had problems with Satan, talking to God, and hearing angels, my doctor recommended I put aluminum foil under my baseball cap. Since then the delusions and voices have stopped. I no longer have visions of heaven, and hell, and realize what is real and what its not. It turns out the foil was cheaper than the pills the other doctor recommended. My new doctor said my problems were caused from radio signals sent out by evolutionist. Also I drink bottled water, because I think the evolutionist are putting something in the water to make people believe in science. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 26, 2007 7:37 AM:

" to Dear Mr. Possibility: The first sign of immaturity is to have to point out that you are an adult. What are you, 16, 17 18? That is the response I would expect from a person of that age. "Leave me alone mom and dad, I am an adult and can make my own decision! Boo hoo" Wow, why is it when a person who believes in God, the other side has nothing to do but bash them. Immature? Hmmm, I am not telling anyone here how to believe, just what I believe. Do I know ALL the anwers, certainly not! Why am I here? I haven't figured it out yet, maybe I will know why I was here by the end. Seriously though, you come on here and bash someone who believes in God becuase you dont? who exactly is the immature one here? I don't recall ever saying the government should be run by religion, I am fine with government staying away from myself and my church as long as I am free to worship as I choose! I normally don't get fired up when reading theses posts, religion is a topic that is different for a lot of people and most will never agree on, but seriously, dont come here and try to insult me becuase I speak of what I believe and you off no proof or reasononing for your beliefs. Typical liberal speaking out of turn "

Defender lost in the wilderness wrote on Jun 26, 2007 7:16 AM:

" "Just when we are making progress", someone shows up and interjects a little reality. By the Defenders own definition progress is a bunch of fundies agreeing with each other about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The problem with fundies is they re-enforce each others delusions. It is like the 90% argument the Defender uses. If 90% of people believe something it must be true. Sounds logical, but is not factual. At one time 90% of people believe the Earth was flat. The fundie mentality is the same that causes lynchings. A bunch of people are stirred up by one idiot. No one questions the idiot, and a person who is different from the mob is killed. Mobs, do not listen to reason, they let emotion lead them into evil. Fear is another factor common to mobs and fundies. The mob mentality is exactly what fundy preachers thrive on. Get a bunch of people whipped up with fear about Satan, and fleece them. "

Jindo wrote on Jun 26, 2007 3:06 AM:

" That's another problem with so many fundamentalists. You guys sound like a bunch of religious socialists, wanting to spend government money to endorse your beliefs, wanting the government to legislate the public morality, and on and on. I want my tax money to build and maintain infrastructure, pay teachers, etc. I don't want it to pay for Christian counseling (get off my dime and meet your pastor on Sunday for that). Creationism in school? The first time a new cancer drug or energy source is discovered through the discipline of it, and I'll be with you (good luck, creation science produces nothing but comfortable fundies). "

Jindo wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:55 AM:

" ----------, I understand your concern, but these aren't prohibitions against the practice of religion. You can put up a manger scene in your front yard, at your church, in the back of your truck... but not at city hall, not because there's a cabal of anti-Christians after you, but because we live in a pluralistic society, and to keep government quiet on religious matters is just plain prudent. If 90% of your community wants the 10 commandments at the courthouse, band together and purchase the property across the street and display them there. That's the American way. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 26, 2007 2:05 AM:

" ________________You blank, bad and ugly are wrong again. The reason that religion is not taught in the schools is because the ACLU had a court trial on Religion Vs Evolution. http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/evolut.htm Because of people like you it was easy to prove that Evolution is a fact but everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible. If each areas religion was taught in the local school the Christian "Tennessee Snake Cult" would have children dancing around in school with snakes proving they are so pure that serpents will not bite them. Oh, I forgot, you said all serpents are Satan. That means the Tennessee Snake Religion is dancing with Satan and do not know it? So confusing. Lets protest all the snake wings in all the zoo's and museums. Obviously they are Satan wings. Was the Garden of Eden and Revelations the only places where snakes could talk in the Kings English. (Reference: your comment Jun 24, 2007 7:15 PM) "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:45 PM:

" To: Jindo- I like Mike- Everything we are talking about here. We teach our kids things at home and on Sunday, and you take them for 5 days and force feed them anti God Nonsense.- Christmas vacation, but no mention of the one it was named for. Federal Holiday though. EXPLAIN. No prayer at football games. No ten commandments when 90% of people in area want them. No manger scenes. No Christian counseling. Not even the "theory" of Creation presented alongside of your religion of evolution. Change history- Change intent of first amendment. More and more discrimination of Christian viewpoint every day. "

Science Says wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:42 PM:

" Science says nothing is ever wasted. Nothing disappears, it just changes from one state to another. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:33 PM:

" To: An Eye For an Eye- Just when we were making progress, Three stupid comments in a row. ie; Fundies Out of Control--- Go Backwards Fast----An Eye For an Eye-- You three are really the same person, aren't you? Same inane type of comments, as always, not backed with any evidence. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:26 PM:

" To: possibilities- To you I say, Welcome back. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:24 PM:

" To: Go Backwards fast. Same as previous post, just when we were making some progress. Go Backwards Fast somewheres else. "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:21 PM:

" To: Stepper - Is there any hope? READ the verses. Adam and Eve ate of "tree of knowledge of good and evil. Disobeyed God. God drove them out, lest they ate of the tree of life, and live forever too. God did not want them living forever, after they disobeyed Him. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:12 PM:

" Fundies Out of Control- Not Again? Go away "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:10 PM:

" To ???????- "My butt hurts." " What" ???????. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:09 PM:

" To: Jindo- I like Mike- Everything we've been talking about here. We teach our kids on Sunday. Government force feeds them anti God stuff for 5 days.-- No prayer at football games- It's CHRISTmas time, but no references to Christ in your school, on a day named for Him. But it's federal holiday, EXPLAIN. Taking down manger scenes. Taking Ten commandments down everywhere. Taking down crosses and symbols that have been for decades, that residents approve of. No Christian counseling. Don't allow even a "theory" of evolution to be compared along side of "theory" of evolution. Local people should decide by majority vote, what THEY want in THEIR area. Not 9 lawers sitting in far of Washingtonn. "

Dear Mr. Possibility wrote on Jun 25, 2007 9:49 PM:

" I am an adult. If I don't know something, I simply admit it. I do not make up a bunch of nonsense. I do not rely on astrology or some other contrived thing to explain something I don't have an answer for. Religious people are like little children. They cannot cope with the unknown, or uncertainty. It is a strange way to go through life thinking that because you do not know something you need to make up an explanation. I do not know how or why I exist, neither do you. You are not mature enough or comfortable with the truth. It doesn't bother or scare me. I am concerned that religious people have committed a lot of evil. I want no part of them, and I do not want their cults ruling any part of my life. I want my government run by people that can cope with the truth, and reality. Deluded people are dangerous and religion is just a popular form of delusion. Many people are deluded by the lottery. Other people make a lot of money from their delusion. Religion is the only legal thievery in our country that is unregulated. You can steal as much as you want under the name of God. You need only look at Pat Robertson, and some of the other television crooks to see this in action. Religious people cause war, hate, and oppression. Look at the middle east and tell me this is not true. Don't give me the Bible verse mobo jumbo. Quote the phone book or the menu at McDonalds it would make just about as much sense. Religious people by their very definition have divorced themselves from facts and reality "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 25, 2007 9:38 PM:

" See_____________ you are a Bad and Ugly parts of Old Testament person. They are mocking you for trying to scare people into religion using the Old Testament. That is what the old Hellfire and Damnation Preachers would do not long ago. People like you scare people away from the Church. You really need to begin preaching the love and positive thinking that was taught by Jesus. It never goes out of style. People are called Christians when they teach the New Testament of Jesus the Christ. May the fleas of a thousand camels be waiting for you in purgatory. "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 25, 2007 9:27 PM:

" Reply to Chavez Jun 24, 2007 11:57 AM During my investigations into the inevitable problems which show up in genealogy, I started wondering why he was such a non-topic in the family records. . His sister was our connection to him. That caused me to dig into his writings instead of the reports from the third bar stool from the end. He did indeed lecture all over the world and he had the religious leaders in a tizzy because he was getting into their power structure and was hurting their incomes. Is it any wonder that they called him every thing they could think of. Its not nice to fool with mother greed. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 25, 2007 9:14 PM:

" Wow go backwards, you offer all of these wonderful "insights" and yet no proof to your side? Interesting. So tell me this, if there is no God, how exactly did we get here? Oh yeah the big bang and life just magically happened and everything just came in order. Hmm seems possible. I mean after all the chances of that happening on their own are what, pretty much impossible? Maybe you don't care how or why we are all here, you are content to go through your life believing it's just you nothing to answer to and you really don't care about anything else. I do feel bad for you on that. "

An Eye For An Eye! wrote on Jun 25, 2007 7:41 PM:

" Almost everything posted here proves one thing: Religion is the worst human trait imaginable! It makes people lose their minds and their reason. If people don't start seeing religion as the poison that it is, the self-fulfilling prophecy of the "end of times" will happen at our own hands. We will deserve anhilation if we're going to continue this utterly foolish nonsense. It's the righteously sanctimonious, as seen in the Middle East and our very own White House, who are dangerous! "

Go Backwards Fast wrote on Jun 25, 2007 5:54 PM:

" If a group of people wants to be stuck in the past that is their right, but for the same group to insist everyone else believe in their fantasy and live by it is going to far. God is just Santa Clause for adults. Instead of writing Santa a letter you go to church and pray to win the lottery, or for whatever else you want. We tell children if they are not good they will get nothing for Christmas. The adult version is that if you are not good you don't get to go to heaven. Grow up, read something besides mythology. Try dealing with reality. Role, play, pretend you are not stuck in one place. Pretend like you have a different view. Try reading something different. Try looking from another perspective. Gambling is an addiction, religion is a feel good fantasy, get help. Reality is not that scary, or bad, you can deal with it. "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 5:25 PM:

" To:- rettev- Amen "

Fundies Out of Control wrote on Jun 25, 2007 5:07 PM:

" I have had a nice three days away from this mess, but it is fun to come back an see the fundies have spun out of control. They sound just like a bunch of Islamic fundies issuing Jihad, and Fatwas. Read their nonsense, and ask yourself if you would want one of these religious disillusionist elected to public office? These people have taken their version of Harry Potter and spun off into the wild blue, with Satan doing this and that. I hope we never have a Chirstain Country or a Christian goverment. This is the only publicly sanctioned insanity I know of. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:51 PM:

" To --------------: Adam and Eve did not "go their own way" God forced them out of the garden of Eden and even set cherubims and flaming sword to keep them away from the Tree of Life. Gen 3:22-24. "

??????? wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:51 PM:

" Darwin was in the Garden of Eden? I do not think so. "

Jindo wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:50 PM:

" I noticed that you still haven't answered my first question: where are Congress and the Supreme Court prohibiting people from practicing their religion? That's a heavy charge you leveled; you have a responsibility back it. "

Evolutionist wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:47 PM:

" So_____________ according to you the first step in the Evolution of the Human Brain was when Satan (A.K.A. Serpent) tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge. God wanted us stupid and innocent but Satan had another plan. You imply that the Grand Canyon and the Rockies are only 6,000 years old. The fish fossils at the bottom of the Grand Canyon are more than a little different than fish bones today but so what. Maybe if you look at all the Meteor Impact Craters on the Moon and notice how seldom we watch any happen. Only one side of the Moon faces Earth so any direct impacts had to be a near miss for the Earth. I have not noticed any meteorite near misses lately. Why do you want God to be in a real big hurry in making the Earth. We look through the Hubble Telescope and see Galaxies that are over 12 Billion light years away. That means it took 12 billion years for the light to get here. God and the universe is at least 12 or 13 Billion Years Old. God must have been in those galaxies a very long time. Or do you think they are the work of Satan? If you do not know Stars, or Rocks, or Fishbones then why are we having this discussion. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:21 PM:

" To: T.g.t.b.a.t.u.- Evolution started to be taught in the " garden of eden" and Satan was the teacher. God wanted Adam and Eve to follow Him. But they chose not to and went their own way. Godless beliefs, just like evolution teaches today. Can you just open your eyes and look at what men do when taught, "we come from mush, stronger mush rules."They overpower women, drag them off, rape and torture them, then throw them in the river.Why you women aren't fighting pornography more than you are, I'll never know. Then a load of food comes from America. Stronger mush says, Hey Bingo, take that food and sell it, on black market, and take the money and buy me some bigger guns. Teen ager struggleing with life, says what the heck, just do it, to suicide thoughts. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc . "

possibilities wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:11 PM:

" As my parents always taught me, it isn't the school's job to teach values, that is the parent's job. I don't believe in evolution, especially not in the way some on this board try to play it off as fact, but I do still believe in all things that people should be able to see both sides. Like it or not, right or wrong, evolution is a theory that is out there. Creationism is the theory we Christians believe. Fine, the schools teach one or both and then the parents if they are good parents will teach their kids the values to figure out what they believe. "

rettev wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:10 PM:

" IN GOD I TRUST "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 4:04 PM:

" To: Evolutionist-It doesn't matter, if it was a speedy trial, or a speedy turnover. The result from the Romans was the same. Death for an innocent person. But that is not the point. You went from this to that means that obviously the American people should have separation of church and state. Which you refuse to see we already had before you evolutions came along. Only we had it so all the individual churches, anywhere could believe as they wanted. Or people could not believe as they chose. And it only affected that small group. You want it set up so that the government demands we all follow your religion,ie; evolution. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:58 PM:

" What do you mean, "Evolution always leads to Death". That is that bad and ugly mind of yours making things up. Evolution is a fairly "new" concept. Wars and death from all reasons were numerous and for as long as we have been on this Earth. Maybe you think that teaching Evolution is like catching a bad virus or something. Maybe you think Evolution is in the Bible right there with Satan that you invented being the serpent that tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge. But seeing as how you believe we are only intelligent because Satan tricked us then anything is possible to you apparently. (Tell you wife to pull the plug) "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:30 PM:

" To: possibilities- I like your always respectful comments, just like the one from Young Christian Parents. But that is exactly what I'm trying to prove here; that Gods Word is truth, and leads to life. And evolution is false, and after it is learned, then applied, it always, leads to death. Through -------------, starvation, brutal dictators, rape, murder etc. I am asking, anyone, to give me a verse of Scripture that will prove, one error in the Bible. Using 2 rules to interpret it; 1- If you think it's an error, go to rule 2- Compare it to other Scripture. The other thing I am trying to prove is, Evolution teaching, always leads to death. They cannot be taught side by side, if you want to teach your children truth. The one disproves the other. "

Evolutionist wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:19 PM:

" I never said he got a "speedy trial". You must have imagined that. I did infer that we no longer let any church make up any law they want. Long ago, early days of this country, one of my Quaker ancestors was put in a wooden Quaker Jail for refusing to pay tithes and refusing to bear arms (yes some early Quaker communities felt a need to require members to bear arms). They kept good records so it was even noted that his bail was paid by a non-Quaker. Because the law has Evolved that would no longer be legal in this country. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:13 PM:

" Bong Hits for Defenders wife!!!! "

------------------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:01 PM:

" To: All- My wife says " tone it down, or I'll pull the plug on your computer." "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 2:57 PM:

" To: Evolutionist- Yes, the Jews even had a trial at night, which was illegal, according to their laws. Used false witnesses against Him. Here's the absurd part of your statement. You say He got a speedy trial, great. He was innocent,"but the Roman's beat, whipped, and then crucified Him on a cross. Give me a slow trial, every time. Then you jump to, "obviously then, the Christian founders wanted a separation between laws and churches. What the founders wanted, is for the people to make up their own minds about what religion each group wanted their own church to be, and the government to keep their nose out of it. Especially the "supreme court." These wise men couldn't even concieve of letting 9 lawyers tell you how you can and cannot worship. They couldn't even concieve of something so stupid. We did though, didn't we? "

possibilities wrote on Jun 25, 2007 2:50 PM:

" Not sure I agree with that last comment. To be fully informed and to know how to fight the side you dont agree with intelligently you need to know more about them. You have to learn a little about the belief to fight it. For instance, if somone starts to trash muslims or christians but knows nothing but rumor about that faith, how can I believea word they say? You need to be informed. "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 25, 2007 2:03 PM:

" To: Young Christian Parents.-Those were some excellent points. I almost hate to spoil it with a comment. The fact is. Gods Word is TRUTH. Evolution is DEATH. They cannot be taught side by side. Why? Our kids should be taught the truth, they expect it in every other area. There are no errors in the Bible. When we teach "evolution", not only is it false, but it leads to death when the "theory is applied.If one is true, the other is not. "

Evolutionist wrote on Jun 25, 2007 1:53 PM:

" A little help seems in order. The Israelites before the time of Jesus were a wandering tribe warring and enslaving their neighbors. They blamed everything they did on "God told me to do it". After the Romans conquered them they were no longer permitted to make war. Whenever the Romans would conquer a city they would make an agreement with the people who ran the city. They could still run the city except the Romans would (collect taxes and) be the policemen and the courts. The Romans would enforce the current laws of the city. The leaders of Jerusalem were religious leaders and most laws were religious laws. You recall that one religious group used religious laws and trickery to claim Jesus was a criminal. They put a bounty on him, and did their little midnight citizens arrest. After tormenting him all night they turned him over to the Romans the next morning (now all states have laws requiring anyone doing a private persons arrest to turn the arrested person over to police as quickly as possible). Obviously then, the Christian founders of this country wanted a separation between the laws and the various churches. We could call it the Evolution of the Christian Religion and the Evolution of the Law. No longer can a church or an individual put a bounty on a person. No longer can a person be arrested because someone claims they are God or the Son of God, or any other purely religious reason. What religion would we teach in our schools? Would we teach the good loving word of Jesus or the wars and plagues where the Old Testament claims each evil thing happened because "God was Angry". In Current times most people who claim to talk to God are in mental institutions. Any person or group who wishes to put a bounty on someone uses the words "for information leading to the arrest". Be very careful when wishing changes to the laws. "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:45 PM:

" To: Most of you- Ever heard , " Tell a lie often enough,and people will believe it?You have been "brainwashed into believing the first amendment, means exactly the opposite of what it says." It took only about 50 years too. Just like you are being brainwashed into believing this WE CAME FROM MUSH, STRONGER MUSH RULES, NONSENSE. That IS killing your kids and grandkids. WAKE UP! "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:31 PM:

" To: NYxND- What? That sounds like the rabbit with the sore butt, talking to the rabbit with the bad ear. "My butt hurts." "What" "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:27 PM:

" To: Chavez- Must have looked in the mirror. "

Proud to be an American wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:27 PM:

" I agree that our founding fathers did a great job when drafting the constitution. However, I think that if they saw what was going on now they'd turn over in their graves. Although they did believe in the seperation of church and state, I think it's being taken way too far. They could've never dreamed of all of this........ "

Young Christian Parents wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:22 PM:

" There are a lot of us that do believe in God's creation and not the theory of evolution. If it's so wrong for God to be in schools, why must we go along with the schools having evolution in the classroom? I understand that the three R's are what the children basically need out of school. But, whose job is it to decide where it goes from there? Some don't believe in God's creation...some don't believe in evolution. So who decides which one to teach our children? My children are exposed to the idea of revolution...but are told of God's creation also. If you have one view, shouldn't you have both? We personally pay some pretty highn taxes every year here in Bismarck, and then pay another $12000/year to send our children to a school where God is the foundation. I hope that this board can remain a positive debate rather than a place for name calling and harassment. We have the freedom of speech to express our opinions....not to hurt others. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 12:22 PM:

" To: Karen Hedweg Backman- Why don't you READ the first amendment over one MILLION times. And then try to figure out who is trying to trying to ESTABLISH religion. Its every small and large community in the country trying to start their own little church. FREEDOM. Thousands of DIFFERENT churches, that that little particular group believes. NOT A GOVERNMENT CHURCH. WHO is PROHIBITING the FREE EXERCISE of THIS RIGHT? CONGRESS, the VERY group the FOUNDERS SAID, SHALL NOT. And then they went out and found 9 LAWYERS, to back them up. The FOUNDERS KNEW THAT NO AMOUNT OF LAWYERS, SHOULD BE DECIDING WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT BELIEVE. So they DIDN'T EVEN Mention them . Even the founders could NOT concieve of such a stupid system. The "supreme court" should NOT be deciding ANYTHING about religion. "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 25, 2007 11:58 AM:

" If I read many of these comments correctly, it was the founding fathers intention to separate the Church and the State. Okay, got that part. But according to one poster the State shall make no laws interfering with the free expression of Religion. But the State does that all the time. When we made laws throwing the Ten Commandments out of schools, removing the Ten Commandments from public grounds, the State interferred with the free expression of a religion. When Christmas carols can no longer be sung in Schools,etc, again a state interference. The constitution works both ways. If Religion cannot interfere with the State, the State cannot interfere with the free expression of Religion. And bringing up the old argument that public monies go into that School, thus making it a part of the state, have a small problem with that. Public monies include my money so when part of my tax money goes into a group or organization, I do have the right to have a voice in that organization or any others that take my tax money. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 11:57 AM:

" To; possibilities- Both comments. Nice to have you back. No one could have said it better. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 11:37 AM:

" To: Aveteran- I'm a veteran too. WHY do we keep going away from what the CONSTITUTION SAYS, and BACK to what some men have said. A lot of different men said different things in that room, while discussing what should be IN the constitution. WHY don't we look at what most of them agreed on? LOOK At the Constitution "Congress shall make No law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE exercise thereof: WHO is establishing religion? Each little community around the country. FREEDOM . Who's trying to PROHIBIT them from doing this? Congress and the "supreme court." "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 11:17 AM:

" To: Matt Jun 24 9:48 AM- A GREAT comment, don't you think? "

------------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 11:10 AM:

" To; The Weeds- You'se weeds is ok. It's dos udder ones in my wifes garden. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:19 AM:

" Bong hits for Defender!!! "

Chavez wrote on Jun 25, 2007 10:16 AM:

" I don't know who --------------------- is, but he/she sounds as if he/she has gone off the deep end. It is obvious that the person in question lacks historical, scientific, or even theological sense. "

Karen Hedwig Backman wrote on Jun 25, 2007 9:58 AM:

" The Founders of our nation, heartily sickened by the ongoing religious warfare they'd witnessed in the history of Europe, were adamant that they were going to protect our young nation from this sort of nonsense. It was with this in mind that they wrote into our Constitution a strict separation between religion and state, It was for this purpose that on December 15, 1791, the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ." We absolutely must not undo the work of our Founders. We cannot go against their wiseom. "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 25, 2007 8:58 AM:

" To: The Good th Bad and the Ugly- Your comments are so obtuse, that as soon as someone with better ones comes along, your just going to get, NUTS for answer. 1-I NEVER said that all scientists are wrong, and I'm right. I SAID God IS RIGHT and SCIENCE agrees with Him. 2- God says the world is only 6,000 years old, and I agree with Him. 3- I agree that flies etc. carry a lot of diseases. The automobile pollutes a little, But aren't you GLAD there aren't 300 MILLION Horse turds out there attracting all those FLIES? It is actually a GOOD thing, the automobile, that the human mind, God designed for a Christian nation. Some of those other nations following WHATEVER, HAVE all those horse turds, and a few camel ones too. You sure can telll it too. By all the disease over there. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 25, 2007 7:48 AM:

" As I read the first amendment, all it tells me is that the government can't have a state religion. This was in fact due to England having the church of england. Many of the early settlers came here to escape the church of england and the writers of the constitution wanted make sure the government didn't have that much control here. I see no "Separation of church and state" specifically mentioned though. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 25, 2007 7:46 AM:

" So after being sick most of this past week and going to the doctor twice, I had to think about some comments on this blog where some that have no belief in God thought it was sacraligious to go to the doctor and use science to cure a sickness. After pondering this again, All I can say is this. God helps the doctors treat the illness, God assists the scientists find the cures. He gave them that knowledge and ability to use just as he has given all of us abilities to use or discard becuase of free will. Just becuase some scientsts are more intent to disprove the existence of God rather than acknowledge the abilities he gave them, that doesn't dispreove his existence. God and Science can and do work together, you can't prove otherwise. In fact if you look at things objectively there is no way to disprove God so in reality the people with faith are those who have convinced themselves there is no God even with all of the facts proving God staring them in the face. Well it's either faith in their own puny mind or it's stupidity. Either way I hope they figure it out before the end. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 7:22 AM:

" To: Jindo, MIKE? and Aveteran. Sorry I meant James Madison. It doesn't matter whose name we use. NO ANY ONE OF THEM, DICTATED THE CONsTITUTION. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 25, 2007 7:19 AM:

" To: Jindo, Mike? AND Aveteran- We are not talking about what Thomas Jefferson said. He did not come in and DICTATE the constitution. We are talking about what the CONSTITUTION SAYS. The FOUNDING FATHERS came together and talked and, yes, argued, about WHAT should be in the constitution. They came up with the BEST system EVER. They overlooked one thing-Even they could not imagine, that the American people, would become so STUPID, that they would - 1 Throw the Bible out of schools. 2 - Misinterpret a statement, that is so clear, as the first amendment IS. -3 And worst of all, would let 9 unelected "LAWYERS" DICTATE HOW, 300 MILLION people can and cannot EXERCISE their religious beliefs. They didn't even mention the supreme court. They couldn't imagine Lawyers getting involved and dictating to a FREE PEOPLE! "

Jindo wrote on Jun 25, 2007 3:09 AM:

" Congress and the Supreme Court are preventing people from practicing their local religion? Please tell us where that's happening. As for invoking the founding fathers, let's hear from Thomas Jefferson: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." That pretty much squares with my interpretation of it. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 24, 2007 11:16 PM:

" Yes---------------------- Except you must "Accept" Jesus by believing his word. You are not involved in the teachings of Jesus. You are wallowing in the Bad and the Ugly parts of the Old Testament. You cannot just bow down like to a middle ages king and say yes I love and accept you. You learn and live by his teachings. The fruit of Jesus is in his teachings. St. Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Scientists study the "Fruit" of God by studying his creations. You know almost nothing about God because you know almost nothing about his rocks, his topsoil, his trees, his universe, and his animals he put on his earth. When you get to the pearly gates God is going to thing you are really stupid. "

Aveteran wrote on Jun 24, 2007 11:05 PM:

" Bill Knox:"One lie they tell is that there is a wall of separation between church and state. This is not in our founding documents, nor was it the intent of our founders." You are absolutely WRONG. The main architect of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, James Madison, stated: "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history. " (Detached Memoranda) "Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together" (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822). "The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819) Now, the main author of the Constitution and Bill of Rights directly speaks in favor of the *total* separation of church and state. He speaks of the danger of religious intrusion into the affairs of the state. Separation of church and state WAS THE INTENT of the founders, evidenced by their own words. Do some research. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 24, 2007 10:17 PM:

" To__________________ You have established that one can prove anything if one jumps back and forth from the first of the Old Testament to the last of the New. You are still wallowing in the bad, ugly, and violent parts of the Bible. Obviously you are one of those people who believe all scientists are wrong and you are right because you can jump around in the Bible and pick and choose. Certainly snakes lost their legs. Its called Evolution and adaptation. I have never met a talking snake so I have no opinion about whether modern snakes are any more evil than Mountain Lions, Wolves, or Wasps. More people die from Bee Stings I hear. The top killer of people is germs and viruses carried by flies (which includes mosquitoes and other similar insects). Obviously then if any creature represents the devil it is flies not serpents. Obviously you are one of the people who thinks the world is only 6,000 years old. That makes you smarter than geologists, biologists, archeologists, and the physicists that measure radioactive decay. The books that tell us how God works fill our science libraries. Ignorance like yours chases the young away from the church. "

---------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 9:29 PM:

" To:- Andy- You ARE doomed, if you follow that logic. The only reason a person goes to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ," Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14: 6. The only reason a person goes to hell is, to deny Jesus Christ. " But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10: 33. Jesus WOULD lead you to a lot of SCIENCE IF you would let Him. You WON'T even LOOK at the EVIDENCE. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 8:28 PM:

" To; Jindo or Mike? You folks have been misinterpreting the first amendment for at least 50 years. Please get a new Glasses prescription, or "read slower, MUCH SLOWER. It always makes sense to compare YOUR interpretation with HISTORY. Try that. That could be rule 2 for the constitution. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 8:19 PM:

" To: Jindo- The constitution first-- It says CONGRESS shall make NO law respecting the establishment of religion or PROHIBITING the FREE exercise there of. That's CONGRESS. It dosen't even mention the "supreme court." The "supreme court" was not even supposed to be INVOLVED in matters of religion. Who established the different religions around the country in different communities? The PEOPLE of those communities. Who PROHIBITS these local PEOPLE from FREELY practicing their local religions? The CONGRESS and the "supreme court." The "supreme court" was NOT supposed to be involved in matters of religion. Just rhe oppisite of what the CONSTITUTION , SAYS!!!!. The founding fathers, if they came back would offer to let ALL of you borrow their READING GLASSES! "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 7:47 PM:

" To: The Good the Bad and the Ugly- You should also Google " snakes with legs." They have found FOSSILS of snakes which appear to have had legs. God told us this 6,000 years ago. We would have been much farther along, with our SCIENCE, if we would have followed where the Bible pointed to in science. Maybe, even 6,000 years. Now DON"T listen to the MUSHHEADS explain it. Listen to what God tells us about snakes. Seems like they walked. or maybe reared half way up as many do now, but these OLD snakes kinda shuffelled along on their legs. God cursed them because They misled a WOMAN. God said "crawl from now on. I never did like snakes, did you? "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 7:15 PM:

" To:-The Good the Bad and the Ugly- When Scripture doesn't make sense to us we go to RULE 2- COMPARE IT TO OTHER SCRIPTURE- Revelation 12:9- " And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 20:2-"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years." You have to use both rules. Just an illustration of how rule 2 works. I really like when you Quote Scripture, thats what we want. Good Job! "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 24, 2007 7:07 PM:

" You______________ should comment on Supernova Explosions. They are not mentioned in the Bible. Do you think they are the work of God or Satan? Please be sincere. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 24, 2007 2:45 PM:

" Perhaps you could chase away the demons that make you untruthful by a trip to the Grand Canyon. To see God's work first-hand look at the fish fossils at the bottom and use a small amount of your brain to imagine how long it took to bury them that deep. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 24, 2007 2:36 PM:

" To_______________ You again make it bad and ugly by misquoting and fraud. The two Bible verses you refer to do not mention "Satan". It must be your vile imagination. Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, 2 Cor. 11.3 and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: (And) The Second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Corinthians 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, Gen. 3.1-5 so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 1:53 PM:

" To:- IT Happens- Jun 23, 12:19PM- Your post shows why you either need better reading glasses, or start applying our TWO rules of interpreting scripture. Which are; 1- God says what He Says. 2- If you think it is unclear, compare to other Scripture.Lets use the verses you supplied. Ephesians 2:8-9- SAYS-For by GRACE we are SAVED through FAITH- NOT of WORKS. Romans 11:6- And if by GRACE, then it is NOT WORKS. JAMES 2:24- by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED. Thats JUSTIFIED NOT SAVED. Gods GRACE SAVES us, we don't DESERVE it. AFTER we get SAVED. We better be going around doing GOOD WORKS to justify what we are telling people about our Savior. People are NOT going to be watching what you say. They'll be WATCHING what you DO. If you tell people that a wonderful thing has happened to you. You've found Jesus Christ as your Savior, And go down in your basement and put a blanketover your head people are going to laugh at your Jesus, as well as you. YOU have to get out there and show what a differene this has made in your life PYou are JUSTIFIED in saying that by the EVIDENCE of what people see. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 24, 2007 11:57 AM:

" To NDJohn: Did I understand you to say that your family is related to Robert G. Ingersoll? Truly impressive! He is among my favorite 19th century writers, and it is sad that today he is not as well know as he deserves to be. As you are doubtless aware, Ingersoll was one of the most famous orators and debaters of his time and had a national reputation. A website containing his works can be found at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/ "

Andy wrote on Jun 24, 2007 11:25 AM:

" There is no God. We are all biological entities doomed to biological failure. Religion was created by man to explain the unknown. Now we have science to explain the unknown. I just wish science could explain jesus freaks. "

Matt wrote on Jun 24, 2007 9:48 AM:

" The Garden of Eden story is to me more about human nature than what is being made of it in terms of creation etc. To be like God was the temptation Man couldn't resist. And, the temptor promised, you surely would not die. Thinking that all was well when they didn't drop dead after eating forbidden fruit, they went on their way. But now that the storehouse of knowledge was opened, a little bit of it made itself known and they realized they were naked. They experienced guilt and shame for the first time. Pain and sorrow. They didn't die a physical death but a spiritual one. The relationship between God and Mankind has been part of human history ever since. I think today so many have the notion that we know so much that we are like gods already and don't need HIM any longer. Science is the god of our time! Some might even believe that science is the origin of all knowledge. No, I think that all knowledge just is. It is infinite and already there and science is the mental capacity of human beings to find it out. No other creation has the ability to do it except Man which sets us apart from the animal world. There is more to us as human beings than matter and just of this earth. It is the journey back to our original beginnings. "

The Weeds wrote on Jun 24, 2007 8:14 AM:

" Hey! Take it easy on us; please! We 'weeds' are just plants that have our own niche in the overall ecosystem but we happen to be growing someplace that someone doesn't think we should be. Our sister, the sunny dandelion, was cultivated as a bright, beautiful ornamental flower. The finest lawns were rich in thick white clover until someone decided it was a 'weed'. Our brothers, spurge and loosestrife, are enjoyed around the world as medicinal and garden plants. Do we become 'weeds' just because we happen to be where someone wants to grow something else on a particular day? Thanky you. - The 'Weeds' "

Jindo wrote on Jun 24, 2007 3:22 AM:

" First, Bill, please describe how the laws of thermodynamics preclude evolution. Second, please read the Constitution before telling the rest of us what's in it. The very first words of the very first amendment read "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." which pretty much goes to show that you haven't even skimmed the Constitution. Or, if you have, you felt no need to explain to us how the above statement really means the founders wanted a Christian nation. Some really lazy thinking on your part. Write an editorial or take a nap, but don't try to do both at the same time. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 24, 2007 12:31 AM:

" To: The Good the Bad and the UGLY- I'm tired and I have made three comments on your posts. Last one , as most of your own statements attest to your lack of knowledge of Bible, and also how DUMB your theory is getting. SATAN entered into The serpent and beguiled Eve, Genesis 3:13, 2 Corinthians 11:3. God caused all the snake SPECIES to crawl on their belly's since. Satan and his demons, 1/3 of the angels that fell from heaven. still enter people today, if they let them. Witness all the horrible people do to each other. The farther they teach from Gods word, the weirder things they do. Witness, peoples of the different religions, or non religions around the world. The only way to keep a demon from entering some one if you notice they are, is to teach them the TRUTH of God's WORD. Sometimes you have to ask God to throw them out "In Jesus Name." The FOSSIL RECORD PROVES,, " That all these species are the same as they ALWAYS WERE. Good night. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:51 PM:

" To____________. You are still trying to focus on the bad and the ugly. Even putting your own spin on the written word. You claim now that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden was Satan. If you read further then God causes that serpent to crawl on its belly from now on. Are you now saying that all snakes are Satan. No wonder you do not believe Evolution "theory". You were not permitted to make it up for yourself. Guess what, life began in the ocean. The ancestors of trees and bushes and grass came out first. Insects came out second and have "outside skeletons". They descend from the ancestors of Crabs and Lobsters. The plants developed flowers as a way to use the insects that were now munching on them. Its called adaptation. If God did not want it to happen it would not happen. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:42 PM:

" To: ALL- The Bible does teach that all children go to heaven, if they die. Why don't we teach that more? Because we'll have a bunch of nut cases going around killing all their kids. As we have seen examples of in present day. God will punish anyone who does that very severely. God has dozens of verses telling us to take care of our kids. Love them, Teach them TRUTH. But no, the government says we HAVE to teach them, WE COME FROM MUSH, STRONGEST MUSH RULES, or,"survival of the fittest." This leads to a DEATH mentality. Teaching it is true, ALWAYS leads to DEATH of HUMANS. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:06 PM:

" To: The Good the Bad and the Ugly- Yours deserves another comment. God Created the perfect garden for Adam and Eve. NO WEEDS. And every kind of beautiful fruit and vegetable they could want. Just told em " Don't eat from 2 trees because it will harm you. They DID NOT eat meat. How do I know that? Because there was NO death on this Earth till Adam and EVE sinned. Hence , vegetarians of present day. They thought they were hidden from God, so they listened to Satan, who said, " one apple can't hurt." Their eyes were opened,they hadn't even known they wer naked. Before-Genesis 2: 25. AFTER- Genesis 3:10. And pretty soon weeds started poping up all over the garden and we still have them today. I'll bet there are a lot of gardeners that wish they'd of listened. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 10:49 PM:

" To: The Good the Bad and the Ugly- Also; What did monkeys do ? Sit up in the trees for a couple of MILLION years until bananas showed up. Same every other of God's creatures? Did MALES come FIRST, or DID FEMALES show up? Then how did they procreate. Even plants have bees to propagate them, Did the plants just sit around in the "garden club," and say, When are those darn BEES gonna show up. Every thing needs some way to get together with a different entity, except maybe a seahorse. God threw a curve ball, and you people look at one of, MILLIONS and say, ssssesss SEE! A bird's bill gets a 1/4 inch longer when it needs to to get what it needs , and goes BACK to same size, when it dosen't . Something God designed by the way. The further you folks carry your "theory," the DUMBER it looks. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 10:29 PM:

" To:- The Good the Bad and the Ugly- You people are unbelievable. I ask for scripture references, and YOU send a bunch from the old testament. I answer every one, and you claim that I am wallowing around in the OLD testament. Its you people that keep bringing up the ancient history of the catholic church. I acknowledge it , because it's TRUE. Don't YOU think its time to move on, and FORGIVE the catholic church for what it did. I don't see any 500 year old catholic's walking around with an axe in their hand. What I see by looking at the catholic church, are, fuzzy beliefs, which I don't believe. I ALSO see by looking at the EVIDENCE, some of the NICEST people on this earth, who have DONE more for humanity, than 500 MILLION of you non-believers could even think of. Forgive the catholics, I have.I would MUCH RATHER, explain Scripture from the NEW Testament. Because THAT IS what we are living under now, "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 9:07 PM:

" To: ALL- The Bible tells us, and we have been talking about, how God brings all children to heaven that die, up to a certain age, mid teens I believe. God does not hold them responsible for understanding scripture. As we can see, by these posts, MOST adults don't either. Why did God not make it simpler to understand? Because if God had wasted all that time telling us how he'd done everything, we would still wander off to our own "religion." Or looked at a woman with all the right stuff, in all the right places, been overwhelmed with our earthly lust. When no one was looking, a man would kidnap her, take her to a field, rape and kill her, and then hire the lyingist lawyer he could find, to say, prove it. God says, if you rape a woman, you're going to hell. God protects women from rape, by instilling in the hearts of men, that they WILL pay for this deed. Pornography produces rapists and killers, that is why it is so bad. Besides degrading women. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 8:43 PM:

" To: Online Editor Jun 23, 2007 2:56. PM- That seems fair. I will try to mention it as seldom as possible, as that is just one effect of teaching "theory " of evolution. This is a much bigger topic than just abortion. When I feel I must mention it I will just put ---------------. You have been very fair to myself, and the other posters. Thank you for your hard work. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 23, 2007 8:28 PM:

" To: NoDak John- Jun 23, 2007 11:47 AM- Can't comment, know nothing about Voltaire or Ingersoll. Other than I have heard their names. "

The Good the Bad and the Ugly wrote on Jun 23, 2007 7:15 PM:

" You Defender or ______________ are not a Christian teaching the good word of Christ. You are wallowing in the Bad and the Ugly side of the Old Testament. You need an Exorcism worse than anyone I have ever met. Prozac might help calm your personal demons until you find the right priest. Perhaps you do not like the theory of Evolution because it is a good story of Gods creatures adapting to every niche in nature. Every food source and every home. Some are adapted to live in the trees and some in the ground. Gods creation named Darwin found how even the beaks of birds adapt to the food source. Gods creatures adapt and you do not. You look around and see evil. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 23, 2007 2:56 PM:

" To ______________: There have been several hundred posts that have not mentioned abortion and the theory of evolution was both invented and has been disputed without reference to it. I will let you mention it, but if the conversation begins to devolve into constant references to abortion I will stop all comments on this letter with no discussion. "

-------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 2:46 PM:

" To: It Happens- Your next reference Hosea 9: 14-16. You should have included verses 11-13. God didn't judge these people for quite a while but finally departed from them and gave them nothing but miscarriages and dry breasts. Verse 17 says God will cast them away, and they will wander among the nations. If you understand the Bible. God was being kind to these little children that these people were burning to death and starving to death because of "religion." They ALL went to heaven to be with God. Matthew 18:3, Matthew 19:14. The ones who grew up to be adults and threw the children into the fires went to hell. Same way today. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 2:28 PM:

" To:- It Happens- Your next verse, 1 Samuel 15: 2-3. Verse 2- Explains how these people were waiting to ambush the Jews while they were coming out of Egypt after hundreds of years under slavery. They killed and raped and enslaved many Jews. So the Jews suffered slavery, and were killed by people who used to throw babies into fires, alive, take slaves etc. because they followed their "religion." God said destroy these people before this wickedness spreads, EVERY one of them, even their cattle. Which the Jews could have used. God fighting against "religion" AGAIN, as he always is. "

The Old and the New wrote on Jun 23, 2007 2:20 PM:

" You Defender are getting scary. You are wallowing in the negativity of the Old Testament. That is not the teachings of Jesus that the Christian Religion is named for. Have you decided who Satan is on this earth right now? Do you have any plans to kill him? "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 2:15 PM:

" To. It Happens Jun 21 4:44 AM- Hosea 13:16- These people rebelled against God, and were found guilty by God, who looked at the EVIDENCE. Goes with the next verse- Ezekiel 20:26. Maybe different peoples but same treatment of people, especially their children. God says he used their own "religion" against them. They would take All their baby's and throw them in a fire. Hoping to appease their god. How did they expect to propagate? DUMB. Something like some do today. God has been fighting slavery and "religion," since the earliest days of the Bible. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 1:58 PM:

" To: Your second scripture- Exodus 12:29- Here is one of the early "slaveholders ' we talked about. Pharaoh of Egypt. Egyptians had enslaved a whole nation. And not just any nation, but God's chosen people the Jews. Probably raped, torcherd, and murdered hundred's of thousands. God told the Egyptians " let my people go." If you don't, I will bring plague's upon you. He started out with, stinky water, fies frogs, etc. After seeing all the EVIDENCE, Pharaoh still wouldn't let the Jews go. God told them what would happen, it happened. Still didn't believe. For His peoples sake He finally resorted to the first borns of Egypt dying. If the U.S. stops supporting Israel He'll remove blessings from us also. Genesis Genesis 12: 1-3 Fact is ,was and will be Condeming and fighting slavery! "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 23, 2007 12:19 PM:

" Defender that is correct! Your supposed god created everything, EVERYTHING BAD, its HIS fault. And you want people to praise and worship something like that? FORGET IT!!!!! As for 1 false statement in the bible the easiest one is the most obvious. "You are to bring into the ark two of ALL living creatures, male and female, to KEEP them alive with you." (Gen. 6:19). An ark containing two of all living creatures is a physical impossibility. Noah's ark was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size according to Genesis 6:15. A cubit was approximately 18 inches, yielding a volume (if perfectly rectangular, the most voluminous possible shape of three unequal dimensions) of 1,518,750 cubic feet. Into this volume, Noah supposedly fit two of each species of animals on earth plus the food to keep all of them alive for a month. But it would be impossible to fit such a tremendous amount of animals and food in such a relatively tiny volume of that dimension. Not to mention how many times the bible contradicts itself. We are saved by faith alone: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9) "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works ..." (Rom. 11:6) We are not saved by faith alone: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." (James 2:24) The proof is all right there in the book itself, it contradicts itself so many times its pathetic. If you were talking to a person who contradicted themselves this many times youd call them a liar. BINGO, YAHTZEE, thats exactly what Im doing calling it for what it is a LIE!!!!!!! "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:47 AM:

" On Voltaire and Ingersoll. I have just finished a further investigation of Voltaire and his works. One source stated that he went out of this world screaming like a banshee, and in another source, he reputedly died peacefully. How can this be? Both Voltaire and Ingersoll railed against the abuse of the people by the church and the government. I therefore do not wonder that the powers that be did everything they could to discredit them. We see that the twisting of the truth about their lives to fit perfectly with the norm which is in effect: If you can not stop the message, then kill the messenger From the quotation Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely we gain a bit of understanding concerning the numerous conflicting reports about the words and actions of Voltaire and Ingersoll. Evil hates to have light shown on their evil deeds and prefers that the people are kept in the dark. Therefore evil does its utmost to kill the message and the messenger. Study to show yourself approved. There are numerous out of print books available on a dot com site called infidels. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:26 AM:

" To: editor- Abortion is "effect" of teaching "theory of evolution" ie WE CAME FROM MUSH, STRONGEST MUSH RULES. "Survival of the fittest." When this "theory is taught, it ALWAYS results in DEATH to HUMANS. Would it be all right to stay away from graphic descriptions of abortion, but just mention is as what it is Abortion? I agree, we should not let this digress into the issue of abortion, and I will try not to. But, how can we discuss, or be intellectually honest if we omit facts? Abortion is a FACT. The very thing we are talking about, facts and theory's. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:10 AM:

" To: It Happens: Jun 23, 2007 4:44 AM- Your first- FACT- God created everything. Fact- Every being God created, with free will, turned God's "good" into into "evil," except 2/3 of the angels. Witness SATAN who runs the "evil" program here on Earth. God created "Lucifer," as the most beautiful, powerful and intelligent of ALL the angels. Lucifer's "pride" lifted him, and he led a rebellion against God, and 1/3 of the angels went with him. Rev. 12: 7-9. also Isaiah 14: 12. When God created Lucifer, He called him "son of the morning" because Lucifer was so awesome. Witness MAN- Romans 1: 18-25. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 23, 2007 11:07 AM:

" To ____________: Choose other facts. Abortion has no place here, it will only inflame the conversation. "

. wrote on Jun 23, 2007 10:10 AM:

" To Fred: I agree! "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 10:05 AM:

" To: Editor-- How can we prove teaching of "evolution" is wrong, if we can't show effects of its teaching? Maybe just give not so graphic examples of what actually happens? "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 23, 2007 9:58 AM:

" to NYxND; First of all, no human can sentence you or anyone to eternal damnation. According to what I was taught, you alone are responsible for your eternal soul. If you do not believe that there is an afterlife, that is your choice. However, most people who believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, believe that there is an afterlife and, because they believe that, will go to Heaven. Very simple concept. Now, the problem comes with all those non-believers. What happens to them after death? If, as the Christians believe, there is a Hell, then, you, as a non-believer, have sentenced yourself to the place. IF there is no afterlife, then poof, guess we are just gone. But as I have said before in several of my earlier posts, don't think that I want to wait until death to find out. Would be just a bit late then. Would rather cover all my bases before that happens. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 9:45 AM:

" To;- IT Happens Jun 23 2007 4:44 AM- I am glad you are staying up late, studying it shows. Your comments are definitely improving. Thank you for BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE Ref. These are NOT "errors" they are FACTS. Our 2 rules for interpreting scripture-- 1- Is it plain what God is saying? I think we could say yes to all of them. 2- Does it agree with other scripture? YES, all of them. One- " The fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom.: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever." Psalms 111: 10. Are these Scriptures hard to interpret, no. Not if we compare it to other scripture. AGAIN, THERE ARE NO ERRORS IN THE BIBLE. I'll Are they hard for some to understand? Yes, for people who haven' studied the Bible. God is NOT the guy you argue with over the back fence of on these posts. I'll get to one on each of my posts. It takes longer when you "interpret " scripture but the results can be relied on. And I'vee been at this awile and have other things to do, but will answer Each one. "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 8:48 AM:

" To: NYxND- Jun 22, 2007 10:53. By your name I would say you are either someone from ND living in NY. Or more likely, someone from NY living in ND. How does anyone determine this? Simply by looking at the evidence. You are the one's who back up your "facts with myth's. My two points are; 1 Properly stated " theory of evolution"- WE COME FROM MUSH, STRONGER MUSH RULES. Hence "survival of the fittest." Applying this "theory" ALWAYS results in DEATH of HUMANS. 2- There are NO errors in the BIBLE. My ONE rule for disproving this. Provide BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE where this "error" is found. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 23, 2007 8:37 AM:

" To _________: I am not going let this issue be steered to abortion. Comments on this post that mention abortion are being deleted. "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 23, 2007 8:25 AM:

" To: Fred- The Bible is not "religion," it is The TRUTH of God's word. You can say that the Bible is like the man made religions of the world, and some do reference the Bible as their source of their beliefs. What some of these have done is " misinterpret" the Bible. And God would not be happy to hear His Holy Bible, referred to as "religion. Please give ONE "fact," from the Bible, Book Chapter and verse that you say is "wrong,". I did not say all things are known in science. I said and say again that; Science and the Bible are in total agreement, and we would learn a lot more about science, if we made this assumption, and look in the way the Bible points. Sorry about gobbly. "

Fred wrote on Jun 23, 2007 7:48 AM:

" To . : Yes; it would seem to me that much of what we 'experience' in our individual lives is based on 'interpretation'. A person sees a small child acting up and thinks she is a brat. Or, has the child just found out that her grandmother is dying? We read or hear something and comment to a friend. The friend says they read or heard the same information but had a very different understanding. If it rains today some people will welcome it but others not; it is the same rain. My point with my original post is that I believe there are vast amounts of information we do not know. New things are learned every day; old mysteries solved, new mysteries revealed. My view is I would prefer to maintain an open mind, the humility to acknowledge that I do not know all things, and that perhaps anything is possible. "

**It Happens** wrote on Jun 23, 2007 4:44 AM:

" Defender Fred isnt going to show you squat about where the bible is wrong because you will just do what you always do and either ignore the question, quote the bible or some other lame excuse in your deluded mind to show what YOU believe. Why dont you show us why the bible is the all knowing truth? Oh thats right because you CANT!!!!!!!!! ITS A FANTASY BOOK OF FAITH WRITTEN AND EDITED BY MAN!!!!!!!!!! But Ill take a stab at it. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.Isaiah 45:7" (Sounds to me like GOD is the one to blame). Oh how about some more from your LOVING GOD. "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. (Exod. 12:29) "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16) "I let them become defiled through their gifts - the sacrifice of every firstborn - that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord. (Ezek. 20:26) "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1 Sam. 15:2-3) "Give them, O Lord what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry .... Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring." (Hosea 9:14-16) Yep, Heck of a guy that GOD of yours. "

TheOldOne wrote on Jun 23, 2007 12:39 AM:

" When I read something like what Bill Knox has written, I think of Karl Marx. I learned of him at Bismarck High School in one of my history classes. Jerry Falwell fundamentalists may not like Karl Marx, but he was no dummy, he was a Prussian philosopher, political economist, and revolutionary. Not all of his theories came to fruition. But he was certainly right when he said, religion is the opiate of the masses. The ultra-conservative extremists in the Muslim religion and Christian religion are excellent examples. If you dont agree to their narrow simple-minded rigid views you are the enemy. Intoxicated by their dull-induced views they are unable to understand that God does not create religion, man does and that everything evolves including thought. Oh, by the way I am not an atheist, but a Christian using the teachings presented to me, in my youth, to navigate my soul through this increasingly hate filled world. My daily prayer is, God guide my soul through the odyssey of the universe. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:48 PM:

" To: It Happens Jun 22, 2007 5:46 Pm- Those were not my comments. I don't go to confession, can talk to God anywhere, especially in nature, with right attitude. "

---------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:41 PM:

" To: Stepper Jun 22,2007 4:57 PM- Liked entire post and couldn't agree more. But am not trying to jam my beliefs down throats. Just am trying to help people understand word of God. Am tired of seeing little babies chopped up like hamburger, and yes one party supports that and one party opposes it. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:35 PM:

" To:- Stepper Jun 22, 4:44 PM-- Liked your entire post. Especially " " The Bible and science go hand in hand and complement each other, if studied with an open mind and heart. " I'll try to stop bellering, "

The Old and the New wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:33 PM:

" I was taught young that the New Testament was to supercede the Old Testament. The old "Eye for and Eye" was superceded by the newer "Turn the other cheek" teachings of Jesus. Somewhere along the way it seemed plausible that the kings helped combine the Old and New Testaments so they could have wars and punish criminals and those who opposed them. The old agreement of combined rule where the Popes would crown the new King in the name of god, no matter how much of a tyrant he was, seemed suspect. No middle ages king would be able to rule harshly based only on the New Testament teachings of Jesus. Based on the New Testament teachings of Jesus no king could declare war or torture or execute. The Old Testament has the words they needed. Christ came to change all that but it did not go away. Perhaps some day in the future people will quit skipping back past the teachings of Jesus when they want to play war or plunder. Certainly Martin Luther spent his life translating the Bible into languages Europeans could read for themselves. He believed people should make up their own minds. I find the Battle of Jericho offensive. The idea that the lord told Joshua to kill everyone and take the gold and silver and put it in the storehouse of the lord is offensive to me. The idea that a dove should be killed and burned as a sin offering for a human is offensive to me. Jesus is my hero, he never plundered nor condoned it. When Christianity was growing by word of mouth it was not growing based on tales of the Old Testament. When Christians were being fed to the lions they were secure in the belief of the teachings of Jesus not the Old Testament. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:15 PM:

" To: Pondering- I really like reading your quiet way of putting real knowledge on these posts, running rings around these people and get the same inane answers that I get. It shows better than anything we could say, how they come to their inane theory's. Like your quiet wit too. These people have no idea how long I'm willing to stick in there, to help them see the truth. As you can see, I have a hard time not answering their senseless statements, with a little satire. Maybe if we both are here for a year or so, I could learn some humility from you. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 22, 2007 10:53 PM:

" I believe everyone is entitled to their faith, and faith is part of the human experience. We all need our myths, whether it is the christian god, adonai, ganesh, buddha, capitalism, communism...they are all belief systems and the human spirit needs the direction these systems provide. Just don't force it on me or threaten me with eternal damnation. As far as name calling and ridicule, well there is no one here who is not giving as they have received. An eye for an eye is the method here. And what better gauge of the emotions and energy of peoples convictions than anonymity. You want to talk about EVOLUTION? This post has DEVOLVED by it's own INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Survival of the fittest here means a commitment to stating ones beliefs (no matter what peer review or bible study-another form of peer review?-is used to back up your statements), ADAPTING whatever facts one finds to custom-fit ones own reality and then EVOLVING that evidence to further their own personal agenda. The GRAVITY of the discussion here is clearly affecting the TIME that some people feel they are willing to spend on convincing others that they are right. For some it shows that there is nothing better to do (see: THEORY of INERTIA). For others, well it might just prove there are LIVING FOSSILS (not Living Fossils by the scientific standard, but intellectual dinosaurs- "hey-old dog, new trick?). That doesn't necessarily make one side more true than the other. I think I am now going to float off into space. Will I be experiencing my time differently? Am I in PERIL? "

Fred wrote on Jun 22, 2007 10:36 PM:

" Hello, ____________ . Here is my one and only post, word for word, on this forum: " Both 'science' and 'religon' have been proven wrong many times over history. Does anyone really believe that all things are now known and there are no mysteries left in this universe? " If you will tell me exactly what it is you describe as the 'gobbly gook (I) keep spouting', I'll be happy to respond. Otherwise, I have no idea what you are referring to. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 10:15 PM:

" To: Fred- Both science and religion have been proved wrong in the past. The BIBLE has never been proven wrong in any way. I am still waiting for you to provide Book, Chapter, And Verse of just ONE error in the Bible. Just ONE. Not this gobbly gook you keep spouting I say AGAIN, ONE ERROR in Bible. BOOK CHAPTER VERSE I can hardly wait . My answer will either explain where you are wrong ,but if it's gobly gook . All you will get is NUTS "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 22, 2007 9:16 PM:

" I, too, believe in God and Jesus Christ. I don't, however, take everything in the Bible to be the literal truth. Nor do I believe that all science is right. There are way too many unanswered questions on both sides to guarantee anything. God gave us the brains to indulge in this type of debate and he probably expects us to use them properly. I do not have a problem with either the theory of evolution or creationism. I also do not question why God does not take away pain and suffering from this world. Without it, we would never know what the opposites are like. If we lived in a world of all joy, we would supposedly already be in heaven. Now, no one is being forced to believe in God. But there are many of you out there in poster land who would like to force us not to believe or, more to the point, to not speak of our beliefs, but at the same time you speak openly of your belief in evolution. I hope that you will grant the people who believe in God and Creationism the same right without name calling and ridicule. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 22, 2007 8:03 PM:

" Keep going D------------fender!!! The ride here has been better than the Super-Slide at Sertoma!! "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 22, 2007 7:49 PM:

" Yep, I for one know every night when I turn on the television or read a book I see people firing off automatic weapons and throwing grenades screaming "IN THE NAME OF EVOLUTION YOU WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Defender has offically lost the last brain cell he had left. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 5:48 PM:

" To: Stepper- Not trying to brag or show myself smart. Evolution type thinking has killed BILLIONS over the century 's and continues to at a rapid rate. And Christians and others are letting this NONSENSE being fed into our children's minds when God's TRUTH is available but CAN'T be taught. I'll say this with no big words and as quiet as I can. Wake up Christians, your children and grand children are being led to hell. And I don't mean, all Christians, there are a lot of them fighting this disease. But this is allowing our kids and grandkids to be taught a view that is ever cheapining human lives. Jesus threw people out of the Temple. Calling them Liars an Hypicrites. That is exactly what these evolutions are. "

**It Happens** wrote on Jun 22, 2007 5:46 PM:

" Whats the matter defender gettin a lil hot under the collar with questions you cant answer and your having to resort to such nasty name calling that the editor cant even publish them? Tisk Tisk Tisk. Hope you remember to go to confession this week, but my guess it you dont think youve done anything unchristian like here at all. Sad sad sad man you truly are. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 22, 2007 5:38 PM:

" Your very wrong defender its not me Im laughing at its YOU everyone is laughing at. The sad thing is you dont realize just how ignorant you sound. The other thing is your the biggest coward on this board. I cant even begin to count how many questions you have refused to acknowledge. Its just blah blah blah god is good blah blah god is great blah blah. And if you cant tell by how much slower this blog has gotten over the past 48 hours, people are just sick of you and your nonsense. Im going to go and enjoy the weekend, unlike you some of us have lives. You have fun with your delusional life and your murdering god. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 4:57 PM:

" Whatever anyone believes or not believes is up to them. As a believer of God, I know He blesses those who remain faithful to Him and follow His ways. He is a loving God and considers all people His children. He has done work in my life and I am grateful for that. I believe He blessed this country very much as we used to be the best and greatest country in the world. But when we turned away from Him, things did not continue on the same course and every year that more and more people pull away from Him, the worse things go wrong in this country. He spoke of that in Matthew 24 and other references (falling away). I am not here to shove my beliefs down your throat or tell you that my beliefs are the right ones. I can only tell you that it has worked for me but it took a long time for that to happen as I fought it until I realized I was fighting the wrong idea. Someone on here asked why we should pray to God...for me it reminds me of who I am, a child of God and in need of His gudiance and help because I am human and not perfect. It also gives me an opportunity to praise Him and thank Him for all He has done for me and will continue to do so. Faith is a matter of heart and conscience and, for me, it feels right. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 4:44 PM:

" To Blank (alias defender): I was posting for Fred to encourage him that there are indeed still mysteries left to life and the universe and the world around us. I am very aware of why God buried Moses so no one would find him and all the other things I listed as examples of mysteries that still remainin in both the Bible and science. I think you have begun to believe your own hype. I was not being DUMB, I was just reassuring Fred that man has many more discoveries left. I find it hard to believe that you are a christian..you are religious but not sure about the christian part as you show no tolerance or willingness to debate wisely. Your fist in the face attitude and name calling and putting others down tells me what you are. yes you are very learned in the Bible verses, content, etc. but you are people dumb. Once knew a pastor like that...could quote forever and my did he think himself something....lost his congregation and his pastorship. God does not like braggerts or people using His Word to lord over others just to prove themselves superior. You look down your nose at people on these posts and that gives God a bumb deal. He asks that we teach His Word in purity and love and plant the seeds. I applaud your efforts but you need to realize how to use God's Word properly. The Bible and science go hand in hand and complement each other if studied with open mind and heart. Bellering down the hallway with a ton of exclamation points and ridicule is not the way to do it. That others do it that do not believe does not make it right that you do the same. Jesus said about the people who killed his earthly body, "forgive them for they know not what they do." you might remember that. keep up the good that you are trying to do but please remember, WWJD. Thanks. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 4:21 PM:

" To:- Stepper- Almost a NUTS. a "little knowledge," mixed with a Lot of " nonsense." God did bury Moses, so that no one could find him. Maybe God took Moses aside, and said, " Moses you were doing pretty good till you lost your temper. Why don't you go rest in a special place I've prepared for you, till we all join up in heaven.I'll put you here so's those evolutions don't dig you up to see if evolving.I happen to believe if we looked to the Bible for science , we would have found even more of these miracle cures already. Adam named all life forms. GENESIS 2: 19-20. Crop circles- man. You keep looking to mushpiles to look for Miracles. DUMB Jesus is more important than Joseph. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:52 PM:

" To ___________: The scissors comment was inflammatory and too graphic cannot be published. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:43 PM:

" Stepper, our prisons are filling up with men who got into drugs and needed other crimes to afford them. Places like New York give very long sentences for small amounts of drugs. It is the one area where you could possibly change people to what they were before. We need much more emphasis in the war against drugs. Teachers or College professors who endorse drugs should be fired. People who use drugs must be contained until they can kick the habit. That does not mean long sentences that are different from state to state. It means you hire therapists with backbones and use the carrot and stick. Pain and Pleasure methods do work on the subconscious mind. So does negative learning. At one time smokers were told of looking in the mirror when smoking and telling themselves "this is stupid, this is really dumb, this costs money" and such. They also tried a very small electric shock to the fingers when reaching for a cigarette. You reach for the cigarette over and over and get this small shock. It tended to work. Some advocated a small shock to the genitals for sex offenders when looking at sexually explicit pictures. Unfortunately the politicians are extremely afraid of anything that could be labeled brainwashing. They got burned bad years ago with "Shock Therapy" and "Frontal Lobotomies" and now they let them rot with a little verbal counseling. Rehabilitation failed in California (1960's) because they kept building minimum security prisons when they needed Maximum. The Vietnam War and Martin Luther King riots in ghettos distracted people until the money ran out. Prison administrators always blamed the officers as they cut the number of officers to help pay for counselors who never set foot in the cellblocks. All the College grads spent their time in the front office talking a good story and patting each other on the back planning their next promotion. Both the convicts and officers if permitted to vote would agree the manpower was necessary in the cellblocks and dining rooms. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:27 PM:

" To: I never said you can't enjoy nature and see God. People use this excuse that their God is NATURE, so they won't have to "waste" their time in Church. That darn Pastor might ask them to put their "last" 5 bucks in a little plate, which the pastor won't do. Ever notice in church, uh, maybe not, that it's FREE WILL giving? Nature boy wants that last 5 bucks to buy a six pack. So He can go out in the $40,000 boat he can barely afford, and get a buzz on so he can really meditate. To bad he didn't spend some of that $40,000 to feed a few of the starving those darn Christians won't help. Ever notice some of those "christians" can hardly stay still for an hour in church either? They've already put there 5 bucks in and they're ready to get outta there. Then of course when the Church let,s out God strikes um' all blind so's they can't see nature. When in fact looking at nature, was one of the reason's they started going to church in the first place. Wow, look at all this awe some stuff out here, and all this came from a big mush pool? Well, mabe. But I guess it wouldn't hurt to look into this "church thing." "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:21 PM:

" To Fred: there are still many, many mysteries in the universe, i.e. what is on the other planets? Where did God bury Moses that no one has been able to find his body? How come we cannot cure the common cold? How many undiscovered plants in the Amazon basin can cure diseases if only we get extract the cure from them? Why does a buttefly have that name? Why did we not hear whatever happend to Jesus' earthly father Joseph? Is there a Bigfoot in existance? What caused the bloodless death of livestock a few years ago? Is there an answere to crop circles? Gosh, one could go on and on....man probably has not even begun to discover. If you see no mystery in life around us and new things to discover....how can you have dreams? "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:16 PM:

" To: Chavez who wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:34 AM: . . As Robert Ingersoll once said (paraphrased): "Those who give blind allegience to a holy book, or a belief, without question are traitors to themselves and the rest of the human race." The moment we as human beings stop questioning, we become slaves. I fear that is what has happened to you. That, or to judge by your writings, you also write for the Dakota Beacon. Neither one is something you want on your resume! " Robert Green Ingersoll is in our ancestry. If you want to quote him, quote his own writings and not that which someone else attributed to him. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:11 PM:

" To Pondering..I think if you ask any prisoner they would tell you that they are not treated like royalty. There are several documentaries shown on MSNBC and National Geographic channels that are about super max prisons and women's prisons. They are quite an eye opener about our prison system. Many prisoners might say that being whipped and locked in a supermax shoe are the same thing. You do make interesting points though and your posts are good. "

. wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:08 PM:

" To Fred: So could it be our interpretation of each? "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:07 PM:

" To: Please Answer Defender- DEFENDER WRONG!!!! God will answer you're prayer to help you find Him. And to show you that He is real. Thats for sure. But He is NOT going to move a mountain for someone who doesn't believe in Him. I must be getting sleepy, maybe I need a NAP! "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 22, 2007 3:02 PM:

" Einstein and God Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our mind cannot grasp and whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all that is there Check the saying, at the faculty lounge Princeton, . .God is subtle he is not wily or artful, he is deep but not devioushe does not deceive us or play tricks with us. There is, however, a deep difference here between Einstein's thought and that of Spinoza. Spinoza's philosophy was in its way a Jewish form of the old Latin Stoic idea of deus sive natura, In contrast Einstein's formulation of the principle that "God does not wear his heart on his sleeve", imports a profounder sense of the astonishing intelligibility of the universe and its incomprehensible transcendent ground in God. "The scientist", he said, "is activated by a wonder and awe before the mysterious comprehensibility of the universe which is yet finally beyond his grasp". "In its profoundest depths it is inaccessible to man". That is why, for Einstein, science without religion is lame For those who want to study this deeper, go to NDSU and check out the writings of Dr. Posen a close personal friend of Einstein. "

Fred wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:53 PM:

" Both 'science' and 'religon' have been proven wrong many times over history. Does anyone really believe that all things are now known and there are no mysteries left in this universe? "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:53 PM:

" To: Gravity Waves- Ken? "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:48 PM:

" Stepper and Defender. You are mostly right, I had forgotten. However in the old days a prison was a place where mostly you held someone until trial and then you sold, whipped, chopped or fed to lions. Usually when someone spent years in prison they were royalty, like in the Tower of London. Putting people in prison for a period of years as punishment is a fairly new concept. (You might say that we treat all our modern prisoners like royalty?) "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:46 PM:

" To: Try again Defender- You just proved all of our points over again. ie; 1- You folks don't read well. 2- You interpret what people say even worse. 3- You miss state facts 4- Put every thing in a blender, and if it doesn't come out with your predetermined views, you 4- Add a little NONSENSE to make it all sound good. Slavery was the culture for thousands of years, and I'm sure some Christians had some too. Like Pondering said it took many years to rid ourselves of that mentality.As it seems it will with this EVIL evolution. The Christians read their Bible and fought and died to get rid of slavery. "Evolution theory"- " We all came from MUSH , and the STRONGEST MUSH RULES." "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:43 PM:

" To Pondering: just curious about a statement you made, "...taxpayers money to build prisons (out of sight out of mind)" Would you punish criminals today differently or what? What is the significance of the number of people in prison today? "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:32 PM:

" To: Pondering- I like intelligence, it always adds to the topic, instead of detracts, like I've seen on some of these posts. I wish these evolutions would get the professors who taught them these things into the debate and we could elevate this thing some. Any scientists or professors out there that can come on and add something smarter than this,and not just bombard us with big words and the number of degrees they have? I have to say though, that if you say something goofy is in the Bible, you have to add Book chapter and verse. The way these folks have been talking, because I have been sitting in front of my computer listening to the music of the band "The Flatlanders," that means I believe there is a flat Earth. These scientists that go away from the Bible when looking for science. Are like when the wife asks you to go up in the attic to get something for her, you head for the basement. "

Stepper wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:18 PM:

" To Pondering; just a clarification in your posting of June 22, 2:18 a.m. Yes, there were prisons in the Bible. Daniel, Joseph, Abraham and Sarah, just to name a few in the OldTestament, were put in prison. In the New Testament, John the Baptizer died in prison (he was decapitated per the request of Salomi), Peter, Paul, Silas (Apostles and friend to Apostles) to name a few were imprisoned as well. Not sure what your point was about that but there were prisons mentioned in the Bible. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:16 PM:

" To: Pondering- You bring in so many interesting perspectives to this posting. We have gotten the Bible and The Ten Commandments from the Jewish people, yes. And these have added to society everything that's worthwhile. I can't remember prisons mentioned very many times in the Bible. But the Romans imprisoned Peter and Paul they put away for a couple of years. Joseph was put in prison after Potiphars wife falsely accused him of rape. But you are right, mostly they delt with people much the same way Islamic Fanatics do now. Chopping heads and hands off. Romans may have been trying to change the system from slaves to Roman coins that we can see in collections today. By the in between method of adding prisons. I believe the last count I heard of number of people in priso is 3 MILLION. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 1:54 PM:

" To Try Again Defender and Thank you Defender. He is polite but I will be less so. I tried to inform you that Slavery was something that Kings did in the Middle ages and before. This country was ruled by the King of England for about 2 hundred years. After we fought him off with the help of the French, Blacks, and Indians, it took a little more than 60 years for us to have another war to outlaw slavery (on paper). If you read any history you would know that the Islands like Columbus found had only Indians on them prior to his discovery (had he found Blacks he would have named this continent Africa, he named it India). The Islands like Cuba, Haiti, Jamaica, and smaller islands were places where the Spanish King had Black Slaves taken to raise Sugar Cane for Rum, Sugar, and Molasses, to enrich the crown. On the east coast of South America the Indians were displaced by the Portuguese King shipping over Black Slaves to places like Brazil. Its one of the reasons we, and they, all fought off our kings. Now days we have prisons for criminals rather that hang, whip, or sell into slavery. Probably many of our criminals would rather be whipped than serve years in prison. Probably many would prefer to be sold into indentured servitude for a period of years. Those days are gone because we now like to spend tax money on prisons (out of sight and out of mind). We tolerate female criminals far more than male but that is another story. We also tolerate people who do not read history and do not know the progress we have made. If you do not know the progress nor the arguments then why play the fool? "

Have a Good Weekend Defender wrote on Jun 22, 2007 1:16 PM:

" Enjoy your Sunday sitting in your temple to God. I will be enjoying Gods own temple out in nature. While you are in church caught up in your petty version of the Lord, I will be out enjoying all his true splendor unencumbered by organ music and the same tired choir. I will see a good God that man a good Earth. My God will shine his sun on everyone, homosexuals, blacks, whites and in between. When its all said and done I don't think he will exclude anyone from heaven becasue of some earthy pettiness they got caught up on. So your church with a roof on it is just like you mind with a roof on it, it only limits what you can see and enjoy. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 12:58 PM:

" If one wants to compare the Bible and science lets talk about those "Black Holes". It seems they are so Black and massive that they are invisible because nothing not even light can possibly escape. But when no such Black points could be found in the center of Galaxies where they should be, then the science was changed. An area outside them now is said to glow. It is claimed that Black Holes swallow everything and nothing can escape. Prior to all this gobbly gook stuff it was claimed that nothing disappears, in science it only changes from one state to another. Which is it airheads? Tell me about the Big Bang when nothing exploded and tell me about those mysterious Black Holes. I need a good chuckle. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 12:44 PM:

" A few people seem to be acting like jackals or hyenas yelping and happily licking each other's tails. No logic just the same old snivels. Not long ago some scientists were predicting the ocean level would raise 23 feet with global warming. Later I see 23 inches mentioned. Talk about people with a math problem. If they cannot calculate the size of the ocean and the amount of ice on Greenland and Antarctica they are not trying very hard. The North Pole is floating and if it melts will not raise the ocean one inch. In the Middle Ages it was the scientists who thought the world was flat and a ship might sail off the edge. Not in the bible anywhere. Science has had a hard time and still not getting it all correct. Keep laughing and enjoy whatever you are smoking. Bottom dwelling can be fun it seems. "

Try again Defender wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:22 AM:

" Dear Defender you seemed to have missed the point. The people who thought they were reading the Bible prior to the Civil War felt owning slaves was correct. Where they right or wrong? It would seem that if they were wrong, but all thought they were right, you too could be wrong about the Bible. I know it is not likely the Defender could be wrong, but is it possible. Is the Bible infalable, or the Defender? "

Blacks whining about slavery wrote on Jun 22, 2007 11:09 AM:

" Wow Defender, I am tired about Christians whining about the Bible, school prayer, abortion, and all that jazz. Whining is fun sometimes. You seem to do a lot of whining about the people that believe in evolution. The Bible whines a lot about Satan. Please tell us which whining you approve of. "

Thank You Defender wrote on Jun 22, 2007 10:15 AM:

" I am publishing a text book that categorizes mental problems. I intend to use many of the Defenders writings on the Bible as a classic example of this form of delusion. The circular logic is perfect to show students how these people can rationalize anything, once they accept one fallacy, they are off to the races. The mood swings in the Defenders writing also make it a perfect case. The Defender goes from the scared God fearing Christian, to the jovial fool amused by his own idiocy. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 10:08 AM:

" To:- ALMOST another NUTS. God does NOT believe like ME. I Believe what HE says is TRUE. I am tired of people, especially blacks, whining about slavery. EVERY race has been slaves every much as blacks have. Good Christian people and others in this nation fought to end it. What did it cost to end slavery in one country/ 600,000 dead and millions wounded, and our best president ever shot in the head. We White people have paid a price to end it. It's Ku Klux Klan people like Sen. Robert Bird, kept it around. Instead of listening to Bill Cosby and Thomas Sowell, you listen to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpten. 90% of blacks are, good, decent , hard working people. Ku Klux Klan was a good man]me for those people as, the yacted just like chiken's running around under hoods. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 9:47 AM:

" To: Please Answer Defender- Almost a NUTS answer from me. We JUST covered this in previous posts. God will NOT answer a prayer from some one who does not believe in his existence. Except from a child, who is NOT held responsible for not knowing if there is a God or not. I've told you, that ALL of the people living on the Earth TODAY could easily fit in an area the size of Connecticut. You CANNOT disprove that. People are starving in these country's because they either WON'T or CAN'T follow God's plan, kept down by a dictator who believes in evolutions "theory."- ie; WE CAME FROM MUSH, AND THE STRONGER MUSH RULES, PERIOD. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 22, 2007 9:21 AM:

" To: Scientific Information on the Internet.- Correction- SOME scientist's do know about this information. These are called " Creation Scientists." They are much fewer for mainly TWO reasons. Most scientists won't look at all the evidence, and for sure they won't look at the ONE science book with no mistakes in it, the Bible. The PROOF of that is in this debate. Not ONE of you has commented on LIVING-FOSSILS.com. Which is on the internet. You exemplify these scientists that won't look at EVIDENCE that doesn't fit their theory. When you look in the Bible, you come back with rediculous statements. GIVE ME ONE MISTAKE THATS IN THE HOLY BIBLE. You can't because there are NONE. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 9:06 AM:

" To: Gravity Waves- This sounds like same person who asked all those questions about defender. I laughed at this one too. Gravity DOES affect Time. This is a scientific and physics FACT. It is NOT a "THEORY." "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 8:55 AM:

" To: IT Happens Jun 21 11:37 PM- You can always tell when someone is losing a debate. They start laughing at their own statements. I "predict" that you won't be in this debate much longer. Maybe you just need some rest, because you have been in it for quite awhile. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 22, 2007 8:40 AM:

" To: Pondering- As always, it is a pleasure to talk to someone like you. Someone who knows some things, actually many things, it seems to me. But when you don't know something, you admit it and look somewhere to find it. Also use your life experiences, and what you see, to make your determinations. The fact is tho, the way the theory about time is; Gravity affects time for sure. I don't think spinning of the earth does, but could be somehow, in relation to gravity. What you say about big bang theory, is exactly right, as far as I know. I especially like your one statement that you would have to belive. "nothing exploded and became something." "

God is just like me wrote on Jun 22, 2007 8:31 AM:

" Isn't it amazing that when you read the Bible it ends up that God believes just like you do? God comes to the same conclusions you do about politics, taxes, and so many other things. Every person I have ever met that got wrapped up in the Bible turned out to find that the Bible verified their views. The classic case of this phenomenon was slavery. All the Good Christians that read the Bible prior to the civil war concluded slavery was just fine. It is amazing how God always seems to agree with the current set of morality. When blacks were forced to sit on the back of the bus all the good Christians knew this is what the Bible declared. Currently the Bible says it is just fine for CEO's to make five hundred time what an assembly line worker makes. I know the Defender will confirm this. As usual how convenient "

Please Answer Defender wrote on Jun 22, 2007 7:47 AM:

" For some reason you refuse to answer this question. Why do you need to pray to God? Why does God need people to point out problems before he will act. For example I pray God will end the starvation in Africa. Doesn't God already know about this? If God were truly loving, would he not act on this problem without me asking. When my children, whom I love, are in distress I help them without waiting for them to pray to me. Another question. Why does God want us to spend money building churches we could spend building houses for the poor. I get the impression God is egotistical, or has a low self worth, if we always have to beg him to do the right thing. When will you give an answer? "

Scientific Information on the Internet wrote on Jun 22, 2007 7:10 AM:

" The Defender never ceases to amaze me. Now he says there is "Scientific information on the Internet scientist don't know about. One would surmise from this that you could make scientific discoveries just by looking around on the Internet. This also implies that if something is on the Internet it is true, or scientific. The logic of the Defender could be used to get you anywhere you would like to go. Proving everything in the Bible is true is a piece of cake using the Defender system. I think the Defender does use peer review, but the peers are very carefully selected to make sure thay are not confused by facts or reality. "

Gravity Waves wrote on Jun 22, 2007 7:03 AM:

" Dear Defender: Often I have working around my house and been hit by a gravity wave. It makes me have to lay on the couch until it goes past. My wife does not believe me, but a gravity way makes me feel heavy, and sleepy. I think these same waves may effect time, and actually disrupt the normal laws of physics. I know these wave effect time. I will lay down on the couch sometimes at One O Clock, and wake up and it is Two O Clock. Where did that hour go? If gravity waves exist, and I think I have proof they do, they would explain a lot about biblical events. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 2:18 AM:

" To Defender Declares Baptist Correct wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:56 PM. Youre getting pretty rude and crude. Let's reflect on who owned slaves before the invention and final total acceptance of money as a better tool. Africans had slaves, Indians had slaves, Babylonians (Iraq), Persians (Iran), Greeks, Romans, Moors, actually it would be easier to list some country who did not have slaves. When people come together in conflict one side kills more of the other. You could kill all the opposition. Or you can then leave the survivors to try to survive without most of their males or you can take them in as second class citizens. When someone commits a crime in present times we fill prison cells rather than sell them in order to pay off the debt. Last I read we have over one million men in prison cells. Did you read of any prisons in the Bible? Notice in this world every animal at the top of the food chain kills for territory. Few winners have any reason to leave survivors. The Old Testament is the history and religious history of the Israelites. We are very fortunate to have it. Everyone should at least read the Book of Esther (Queen of Persia now Iran). You would see how much we have progressed using moral guides. Using tools like the bible moral men can inspire others to do good things. Wish away these tools, and these men, at your peril. You can wish Hollywood was our moral guide if you wish. But you really should read more history and consider if we are better off now than we were. This countries founding fathers considered themselves very moral people and would rather duel than be called otherwise. They took-on our last king and won. Do you recall that this country was under the control of the King of England during the 1600's and 1700's. Changing the way things were then took some time. 200 years under a king then 60 some years of continued slavery afterward trying to get things right . "

Pondering wrote on Jun 22, 2007 12:52 AM:

" Defender, I had not heard about gravitation effecting time. All I had read was that Mass and Speed were in the equations. As they say in baseball, I am not one of the players just one of the fans. Someone needs to watch to see if they touch all the bases and that the referee calls it right. So, if one atomic clock was at sea level (say San Francisco) and another at Denver Colorado (5,000 ft) the one at Denver would be making a bigger circle as the Earth rotates. That means it would be traveling faster. I do not know if there would be much difference in gravitation using two points on the ground as I chose to do. When you dig a hole in the earth the gravitation under you gets less and the atoms of earth on each side pulls sideways in all directions more and more. It would be very hard to suspend an atomic clock in the air above San Francisco. With science you try to minimize the variables. You usually cannot eliminate all. The Big Bang theory is not really science. Science is when you put two chemicals together and get another chemical. When you put something like magnesium in a sealed chamber on a scale and ignite it. After it turns from a solid to a gas it still weighs the same on the scale. It has the same number of atoms it has only changed from a solid to a gas. In science you get nothing for free. In the Big Bang they did say that "nothing exploded and became something". Now the better scientists admit that they do not know what existed before the big bang and that it would be impossible to know. You might say that the "big bang" is the scientific "creation myth". "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 22, 2007 12:25 AM:

" To: Who is the Defender? Jun 21 2007 10:31 PM- Some people will say I was nuts to give out all that information. But you know what? I did it for a reason. I have been giving out FACTS on this post for days now. Some that most Christians are not aware of , and for sure most of you don't. Why , am I super smart? No, but I study. I've given you Scientific information that some scientist's and you all don't know, but could find on Internet, But will you go there, no. Give you a simple math problem, but do you try and solve it, no. Why do I do it? Because God has given me knowledge and expects me to share it .I'm more interested inwhat happens to you, than you are. As Christians are expected to be, by God. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 22, 2007 12:05 AM:

" To: Who is Defender:- Jun 21 2007 10:31- 13- Drove hopped up car. 14- NO tatoo's. 15-Drank every TYPE of alcohol. 16- Little overweight. 17- Have voted republican all my life. 18- Smoked. 19- No stickers. 20- Shops at Wal-Mart as YOU DO. 21- Lived in Minn.- Kansas-Florida- California- ND. Wisconsin- New Orleans- Germany- Lived for short times in Georgia- Colorado- Arizona- Missouri- Virginia-Canada. Traveled through many other states. 22- Mobile home No, but nothing wrong with that. 23- Supported civil rights, as did most republicans. 24- Likes country western,drag racing, 25-No picture of Jesus. 26- Ten Commandments in living room. 27 Some are locked up. 28- One 12 gauge two rifles, one handgun. 29- No addittives - Valvoline. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:37 PM:

" WOW!!! now were all nuts? HaHa nice rebuttal defender, Cant come up with answers so once again you resort to name calling. That rebuttal earns you an "F" mister see in debate class your not allowed to resort to name calling. After all its not very christ-like. hahaha "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:32 PM:

" To: Who is the Defender- Jun 21 2007 !0:31 PM- I do LIKE this one. I laughed out loud. Would welcome more of this, but NOT about defender. This will be last info given out by defender. 1-Went to Community college and trade schools. 2- Had a GOOD blue collar job.-3- Dad had to quit school after 8th grade during Depression to help feed family.-4-Sometimes remembers to display flag.-5-Drives a Buick-6-COULD have won Vietnam war. 7- No org. 8- Have not had any alcohol since 1980 and NO desire to. 9- Have 3 grown kids. 10- Been married to same woman 36 yrs. 11- Big dog, sweet temp. 12- Was deer hunter. More next post. "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:01 PM:

" To:- Is the Defender white- PERFECT EXAMPLE as to how you people think. think? This is the "exact same way you come to your PROOF of evolution, that is really a "theory" You miss interpret statements, Do some guessing, Put every thing in a blender, and out tumble you're "proofs." Fact 1-Most of the drivers are white, I am not a driver. Fact 2- There are MILLIONS of fans of every color. FACT 3-The odds that you are right in the state of ND are are about 100 to 1 in your favor. FACT 4 People of ALL races oppress and are arrogant. But you know what the strangest FACT to me is? If I turn out to be White, You will say, This is proof that the "theory" of evolution is correct also. "

Your all NUTS!!!! wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:42 PM:

" Thats so funny- how you came upon the description for the defender---and so on the money. I laughed THANKS "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:32 PM:

" To: O.M.G.- NUTS! "

Who is the Defender? wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:31 PM:

" By his own admission he did not go to college. My guess he had a blue collar job. Neither of his parents went to college. He displays the flag on all the right days. He drives an American Car. He thinks we could have won the Vietnam War. He is a member of some fraternal organization. He is what is called a dry drunk. He has no kids, may be divorced, and his dog is a large one with a bad temperament. He was a deer hunter when younger. Drove a hopped up car as a teenager. Has one tatoo. He has a fence around his yard. He drank only domestic beer in his drinking days. He is a little overweight. He votes a straight Republican ticket. Smoked at one time. Has a patriotic sticker of some sort on his car. He shops a lot at Wal Mart and has spent most of his life within twenty miles of Bismarck. At one time he lived in a mobile home. He never did anything to support the civil rights movement. Likes country western music, drag racing, and possibly rodeo. There is a picture of Jesus in his home that cost less than twenty dollars. The ten commandments are on display in his kitchen. Most of his possessions are locked up. He owns two long guns and a hand gun. He has bought oil additives in the past for his car "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:19 PM:

" To; Dear Defender- Jun 21 2007 9:51- I NEVER said God was a republican or a democrat. I am a republican but not as strongly as I once was, as they seem to be going off track lately also. Slavery went on for thousands of years, it was the Culture of people who thought like evolutionists do. That we came from mush and the strongest mush rules. Witness, ABORTION. This Christian NATION and the FINEST President Stopped it. What was the price of stopping slavery in just ONE country? 600,000 thousand dead and MILLIONS wounded. The biggest industry in Missouri after the war, was making artificial limbs. The president got shot in the head for his part in it. "

Is the Defender White? wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:01 PM:

" How do I know you are white? I use your Biblical logic. You like NASCAR, you are arrogant beyond belief, you love to oppress, you are sure you are always right, and every word you write reeks of someone who would join the Klan just to wear the outfit. Don't be offended, I am just using your Biblical logic. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:00 PM:

" To: NYxND- Please explain in some "detail," "sustainability" and "ecological footprint" ALMOST any one can Google all the information they need on almost any topic there is. Please take more than one post if needed to explain above topics you mentioned. I promise I will answer each one and tone down the statements. I really would like to learn something tonight. "

O.M.G. wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:58 PM:

" Defender: I think I finally figured out who you are. We have all been blogging to you . . . .GOD. Please save us all! "

Defender Declares Baptist Correct wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:56 PM:

" At first it looked like a close call, but now the Defender has come down with a ruling the Baptist got it right. No need to start another church, it turns out the Baptist are correct. Now, Dear Defender weren't there a lot of Baptist in the south in the time of Slavery? Were they right then when they owned slaves? Oh, Defender please explain. Were the Baptist slave owners wrong, or did God come out with an update that forbade slavery. Perhaps slavery is still OK, it gets pretty good press in the Bible. Only the Defender can straighten this mess out. Please issue a fatwa, I am thinking about enslaving some people. "

Dear Defender wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:51 PM:

" As I have oft expected God turns out to be a strong Republican. I know a lot of people have accused Jesus of being a bit of a socialist, with helping the poor and all, but I do want to thank you for making it pretty clear Jesus would be against National Health Care. This is going to be a big disappointment. However, I can see how this all ties together the Godless Europeans have health care, and the good Christians want to make sure each person fends for himself. It is a great relief to find God is Republican, now I know we have a Good president, that is on Gods side. Was anyone in the Bible a Democrat Defender? As usual how lucky the Defenders politics mimic Gods. No one could have the luck of the Defender "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:50 PM:

" To:- I love you all. You make this job so easy. How do you know I'm white? Please post ALL of your EVIDENCE. No better not, that would just waste our time chasing that down. There is only ONE Holy Bible with some translations to make it clearer to some. And of course has been translated into hundreds of different languages. Changed name to blank because did not want this discussion about defender. Wanted it about the HOLY SCRIPTURES SCIENCE and "THEORY" OF EVOLUTION. Would be happier if I never heard the name "defender" again. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:31 PM:

" To:IT Happens- NUTS! "

-------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:21 PM:

" To:This is My Take On It- NUTS. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:14 PM:

" To: dante- Sorry- Joe? "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:04 PM:

" To:Dear Defender Jun 21 2007 2:16 PM-Actually I may be wrong. I really can't think of anything that they got wrong. They do have some people going to their church, who say they are Christian, but really are NOT. JUST like EVERY OTHER "denomination." In Malachi 3:10, old testament. That some "phonies " use to rob old people. The new testament says give as you can afford. " But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5: 8.Some "church goers interpret this to mean to buy a $100,000 worth of sporting equipment and put a dollar in the plate every week. "

dante wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:42 PM:

" defender bill---no, im not BAZZ, but i will tell him you said hello. "

Dear Defender, or Saint Fill in the Blank wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:41 PM:

" You never answer my difficult questions, like why do we have to pray. See earlier post. I am losing faith when you and God cannot come up with some answers. Given the fact that you can make up anything you want, and answer would seem a simple thing to come up with. None of your former answers had an logic or basis in reality, so why do you choose not to give some questions a reply. You would be a great teacher. When you gave a test any explanation would suffice. However, I am losing my faith in the Defender , or the Blank. What does God's Rep on Earth prefer to be called now that he has given up the title of Defender. Rumor has it that the Defender suit was too tight and you have assumed another persona. If enlightenment is allowed please give us some. My life is meanless without wisdom from the enlightened one. Rarely do I get to interact with someone who knows what God thinks, and I live for every moment awaiting Gods next message via the defender. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:23 PM:

" To: ALL- Heres a quick check, something like spell check. LOOK in the Dictionary, under, REPTILE Def. 1- any of a class (Reptilia) of coldblooded vertebrates having lungs, an entirely bony skeleton,a body covered with scales or horny plates, and a heart with 2 atria, and, usually, a single ventricle, including the snakes,lizards,turtles,crocodiles,and DINOSAURS. You people have this evolution so ingrained in your mush minds that you won't even believe the DICTIONARY! There is a type of these (Reptilia) on one of those islands Darwin visited that if you get out of you're row boat, you better either have your track shoes on or a gun, because he'll chase you down and EAT YOU. I'll bet you, become a Believer about the time your head was being chewed off, if your mush brain was still working . So the DINOSAURS AREN'T DEAD like you've been TOLD for a MILLION years. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 21, 2007 6:35 PM:

" Duh---der, keep writing please, I am enjoying all you have to speculate on. One thing though. Your whole population and Connecticut thing. Are you using that to say we aren't overpopulating? If so then again the simplicity of your statements is boggling. Learn about sustainability and ecological footprint. Then try again. And now it seems you are attempting to tread where Einstein did with some interesting Creation Physics. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "

Defender Science wrote on Jun 21, 2007 6:03 PM:

" It could have been predicted. The Defender has declared that the Earth is at the center of the universe. The exact center is somewhere in his back yard. How convent. The Defender is white, correct color. The Defender is Christian, correct Religion. The Defender is at the center of the Universe. The Defender is in touch with the correct God, and he has the correct Bible. Life is good for the Defender. I am still puzzling why he changed his moniker to the Blank? "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 21, 2007 5:59 PM:

" Wow I hate to admit this but even Im getting bored with this topic now. You just cant reason with people who have delusions of grandeur. Now we have defender pimping out dvds and literature of this twisted THEORY. Whats next a bake sale? There is less evidence to support the creationism THEORY then there are any of the other theorys because it is based on the bible. The bible in just this blog alone has been shown for how fraudulent it really is. A mass murderer is controling everything/eveyone. WOW now there is a concept to live by. "

--------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 5:49 PM:

" To:all-IF scientist's would start out with the "theory" that the Bible is the "correct science book" as it IS. As some of the great scientist's of the past HAVE. We would be a lot farther along with science. Instead of following theory's about mush becoming these fabulous brains of ours. The Bible IS the ONLY SCIENCE BOOK with NO mistakes. to waste our time running after. "

------------------------ wrote on Jun 21, 2007 5:23 PM:

" To: IT Happens- NO, the worst is an F-, IF you don't improve. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 5:19 PM:

" To:Dear Defender or Mr Blank-Awful close to politics, oh, well. Google- "who pays the most income taxes" This is INCOME TAXES and the percentages of each income group. Top 1%- pay 33.9% Top 5%- pay 53.3% Top 50%- pay over 96% of ALL INCOME TAXES. Bottom 50%- pay less than 4% of ALL INCOME TAXES. Some poorer people even get money back. Poor people are paying virtually NOTHING for the Defense of the country, Homeland Security, I.R.S. costs, ALL those wasteful government agency's, etc. What do certain people like your self complain about the most? The rich don't pay enough- The price of stamps- the price of gas- evil oil companies. The founders said the people should pay for 1- The Defense of the Country 2- a Postal system 3- For building of broads. You pay nothin for the last two if you Don't mail any letters and if you don't drive you don't pay for the roads. I don't mind buying stamps or gas, as i expect to pay to deliver my letters and fix the roads I drive on. The INCOME TAX IS UNCONSTTUTIONAL. On top of that any poor person can go to the Hospital and the premium payers pay fpor that too. Christians are doing pretty well by the poor. ADD to that the BILLION the rich give to charity's Your statement rely on EMOTION! "

----------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 4:36 PM:

" To: Pondering- I meant GRAVITY affects TIME. "

---------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 4:31 PM:

" To: Pondering- There is an excellent dvd on this titled "Starlight and Time"for about $20. www.AnswersinGenesis.org. Also "Grand Canyon, monument to the flood." and " The Truth about Dinosaurs" www.creationtruth.com. With the invention of Atomic clocks we can PROVE time effects gravity. They did in fact, but they placed the clocks, one at sea level and one at 5,000 feet above sea level, and the one nearer the earth went 5 micro seconds slower by 5 micro seconds per year. If they could on out a MILLION miles it would be dramatically more. This explains how God could create stars on the fourth day and Adam could see the light from thos stars on the sixth day. Some people will spend $20 bucks on a horror movie , but not on something that might effct them for eternity. At least LOOK at the EVIDENCE. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 4:08 PM:

" To: Pondering-You amaze me, I could probably learn a lot from you about science. One other thing I could learn from you is humility. But I think there are only a few others in this debate that would admit that.We know that Einstein changed his original theory because it didn't allow for ether, and without ether in space his theory wouldn't work. The big bang theory has a lot of problems as the evolution theory does, hence theory. We know from Einstein that gravity effects time. The system we have agrees more with the Creation theory. That we are near the center of the universe and the big bang couldn't have happened, just like evolution didn't. "

------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 2:34 PM:

" To: All-One last reminder- All math tests are due in by Saturday night. Sunday is day of rest, Church, etc. Also Nascar race, so I won't be doing much of this. "Pondering" , you treat people with respect and God also. I would never judge a kind and intelligent man such as yourself, or any one else either. 1 Corinthians 3:1-9 talks of men planting and watering, but God provides the increase. Speaks to both planting Gods word and to crops also. There are an awful lot of farmers and others who pray for rain, etc.We not only feed ourselves but more other people from other countries as well.sounds like answered prayer to me. "

Dear Defender wrote on Jun 21, 2007 2:16 PM:

" I am starting a church of Defenderites in my area. Pope Defender the first said the Baptist almost have it right. I want to model my Defenderite Church on the Baptist, but leave out the parts they got wrong. Which parts did they get wrong. Have any other churches come as close as the Baptist to being true Defenderites. Tell me what a Defenderite church should look like. I am going to charge the regular ten percent the Bible recommends, do I have your permission to add on 3 percent for inflation. I see you something like Martin Luther, I am sure this result in a similiar resurgence of Religion. What shoudl our preist wear? Can Women be priest? "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 21, 2007 1:58 PM:

" Rats thats my bad I didnt square the mile before I did my math. So does this mean im going to hell now cause I goofed on math?haha "

This Is My Take On It wrote on Jun 21, 2007 1:53 PM:

" We rise no higher than what we believe. If we believe mankind came from animals, we rise no higher than animal mentality. If we believe something is only true/believable if we have "evidence" (i.e. "actually seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting") we rise no higher than the five senses we use. If we believe in a god that kills because we didn't do it his way, we rise no higher than to kill if someone doesn't do it our way. If we believe that something false is true, then we rise no higher than the falsehood. If we believe something true is false, then we rise no higher than the falsehood. Herein is the dilemma. "

Dear Defender or Mr. Blank wrote on Jun 21, 2007 1:21 PM:

" Would Jesus support national health care, or would he use the money for tax breaks for the rich. I prayed to God last night in the name of the Defender, and got no answer, since you have a toll free number could you get me an answer on this. I need it for Sunday school Class. I bet my teacher Jesus would use the money for health care, but we both agreed that what ever the Defender says is the answer we will abide by. If you get time please ask God if it is OK to lie if you need to start a war. My Children asked me if Santa Clause was true, and I told them it was made up. Is ist all right to lie to kids about Santa, and Jesus? "

MamaMia wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:56 PM:

" C'mon Punker! Since they won't close this blog down, get in here with your Bible verse! "

------------------------------ wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:42 PM:

" To:- IT happens_ Jun 21, 2007 12:10 PM- You get "F" in math. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:34 PM:

" To:- What was it defender- When God was telling Job about the strong bones of this be-he-moth. It was as if Job had asked God, "How does anything that big stay up?" God ALWAYS answers questions we ask, if we ask in TRUTH and FAITH. "

Your all NUTS!!!! wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:28 PM:

" I find this topic a interesting read. I have not responded in along time so please do not include me in your sarcastic remarks- I look for no responce from you defender. You sound intelligent (can take a page from a book and write it down) but delisional (you are believing a fairy tale). You sound highly judgemental as most religious people- this is where I lose respect in a person and your faith. As faith means nothing because you are truely following NOTHING- If you do not question you will learn nothing! You defender are a follower- However I do enjoy the readings here. The polical aspect of this is quite humorous- As I see the governement as a bunch of egotistical men who really have no clue. You call Bush religious, however FACT is he LIED and that is a ten commandment. Highly religious people should find this disturbing or maybe it is okay because God gave him the red light for this- who knows "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:14 PM:

" To:-Old Testament Defender vs New Testament Defender-"For I am the Lord and I change not;" Malachi 3:6. Old testament. " Romans 1:17-25. New Testament. When God Created this whole Earth, He knew that man with a free will to do good or evil, would choose evil, most of the time. He set up 6 distinct ways of dealing with man, knowing that man would reject every one of them as we can OBSERVE by looking anywhere in the world. So when mankind stands before Him and gets judged, which you WILL, if you don't accept Christ, you can NEVER say, "But you never told me or showed me." God IS a rightious judge , and presents all the EVIDENCE. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 21, 2007 12:10 PM:

" Now im no math wiz but if there is 1509 square feet in one mile and Connecticut is 5018 square miles that makes 7,572,162 square feet. And if you take a very modest margin of ONLY 2 foot wide avereage per person x's 7,000,000,000 that gives you 14,000,000,000. Are we stacking people on top of each other? "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:30 AM:

" To To Online Editor: When the Bobcat workers were on strike one of the stories ended around 1,400 comments. The commenting system will only display the first 1,000 comments. Thanks for the compliments. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:07 AM:

" To:-Chavez- Sounds like you are stuck in keeping God and science apart. Like an intelligent being such as we claim He is, couldn't understand science, yet He created it. Maybe you should start questioning some of you're belief's. "

Old Testament Defender vs New Testament Defender wrote on Jun 21, 2007 11:03 AM:

" Just like God turned out to be different in the New Testament, apparently a major change has occurred with the Defender. He is no longer the Defender. Apparently his new name is Blank. This is a better name for him. "

----------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:51 AM:

" To:-I'm still having trouble with computer. -------- Post Jun 21, 2007 8:28 AM. Down at the bottom it should have read, "Again my apologies to any I've offended,especially "Lady Hope." "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:43 AM:

" To:ALL-Defender don't lie. I've asked you'all to disprove the ol defender with SCIENCE, ie,MATH. Illustrating that we are not overpopulating the world. They are starving because they are using man's systems, tyrants and dictators, not Gods which allows freedom in so many ways.the old defender said,"if the earth's population is 7 BILLION, they all could fit standing up, 10 square ft. apiece, in an area just over the size of half of Connecticut." 7,000,000,000 x10= 70,000,000,000, divided by the square feet in a square mile, 27,878,400= how many square miles? How many square miles in Connecticut? I'll trust your math, but will be checking it. "

MamaMia wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:43 AM:

" For the love of God (so to speak), isn't it time to put this blog to bed? "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:21 AM:

" NoDak John you cant take one or two passages out of the bible and say I should be happy god killed these people. Unlike GOD, I dont believe ANY killing is justified. They arent the only ones hes killed, Millions, dare I say BILLIONS even TRILLIONS have been slain by this SUPREME being over time "from his OWN WORDS in his OWN BOOK". Ok so he got rid of giants to allow man to progress and thats fine with you christians but lets not forget everyone else he has murdred, Lets see hmmm I seem to recall some sort of flood perhaps? Ya that took out a few. Hmmm lets see I seem to remember him killing men, women and babies in Egypt during the 10 great plagues. You catch that? BABIES!!!!!!!! Is it not the bible that tells us not to harm one another? If your a parent you realize that children learn by example, no wonder everything is so messed up, we watched a supreme being destroy everyone around him while he was looking back over his shoulder saying "dont do this at home kids". Funny how you never see these little tidbits of information in a childrens bible isnt it? You christians cant have it both ways, either hes a loving all caring god or hes a murderer, he cant be both, and if you say he can, well that just shows more of your delusional thinking. Which brings up that whole original sin topic again. Perhaps you want to take a stab at that one beings defender has clearly been knocked off his high and mighty perch. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 10:17 AM:

" To:- What was it defender-Sounds like that huge dinosaur with with the long neck and huge tail, I think it is a Brontosaurus. It ate vegetation, right.He certainly had a tail about as big as a ceder tree. He swung it around like a Cedar tree waves in the wind. God is talking to Job. God says His bones are AS strong pieces of brass,his bones are LIKE bars of iron. Sounds like God is telling Job, This guy has strong bones. Notice Job 40:15 "Behold now be-he-moth,which I made WITH thee, he eateth grass as an ox." God says he made this creature at the same time He made man.They lived at the SAME time. We have bones of this creature, we KNOW that it lived. We also have some pretty accurate drawings of him based on his SKELETON. All this is based on what we can see.Pretty accurate discription from a book 4,000= years old, huh? "

NYxND wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:58 AM:

" Hey D---f---nd---r: Hate Crimes debate is under topic "Taking away our personal freedom" and politics is under letter published yesterday "Bush doing great job." As much as it seems like this has become your personal soap-box, I would rather you commented in those forums and stick to the topic of this letter here. If my opinion matters to you at all. "

To Online Editor wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:53 AM:

" I was just curious, what is the record for the most reponses to a story in the Tribune? At nearing 350, I stand amazed that it has continued this long. It does make for stimulating and sometimes infuriating reading! It is good to see the public stating their views, whatever they are. You are to be congratulated, too, for keeping up with it all! "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:47 AM:

" To:NoDak John-The verse you are referring to, actually it should be Luke 17:22-37. I believe refers to the rapture. Just as God told people for 120 years , while Noah was building the Ark, that a flood was coming. People walked by and laughed, and said Hey, Noah why ya building this ol boat? It hasn't rained since time began on this earth, and it hadn't. But suddenly the flood came, Noah and his family were the only ones ready for it, as they believed God. It will be the same when Christ comes for the ones who have believed Him.Ref; other scripture,Romans 10, John 12:38. Can you imagine the faith it took to work on a boat for 120 years, when it had never raind on the earth sice time began, but Noah believed. Thats much as it is now only God has been telling us about himself for thousands of years, and as these posts attest, there are still million who don't belive, or have made up their own god, just as it tells differetpeoples did in old Bible days. Thanks for the reference, it helps save time. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 9:11 AM:

" To: all- Just a little more on politics both parties, please excuse me breaking my first rule. They take away our freedom of speech 60 days before an election, so I thought I'd get this in.They just created more reason for hate and discrimination to continue. By passing "hate crime laws." If two sisters, step or otherwise black or white homosexual or not. But if one is and one isn't, they are treated differently. Two white guys or two black guys come along. Each guy rapes and kills one of the girls. One gets 25 to life, the other gets the death penalty. Founding fathers would have said "Dumb." You can comment or not I'm done on this subject. "

Urban Legend wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:58 AM:

" The internet has been a wonderful system for freeing people from urban legends. Religion is the ultimate urban legend. Hopefully we can break out of this one by exposing the idiocy of people like the Defender. There will always be a few people who believe in the carburetor that gets 100 miles per gallon, and the alligators living in the sewers of New York City, but the fewer of these people we have the more secure the rest of us can feel. The free flow of information is always the best defense against evil and stupidity. Each person who is helping to debunk the Defenders gang is providing a service our forefathers fought for. Freedom from Religion is what has made this county great. Information is religions worst enemy, keep up the good work. "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:55 AM:

" To.-All- I will say one thing about our political system, both parties, because it is the clearest example of evolving we all can see. Our founding fathers were wiser than most of us. They designed a system to keep us away from tyrants and dictators. But it is evolving into something completely different. These clowns essentuely buy their offices with your money. They get together and say "I'll vote for your bridge, if you'll vote for my tunnel.We can't veto these dumb ideas, no they have to through in the budget.We can't put term limits on them, so we can get rid of some of the good ol boy, buddy-buddy stuff. Now they've taken away our freedom of speech 30 or 60 days before an electio. Evolving fast and almost out of control as we speak. No, it is out of control! "

Chavez wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:34 AM:

" Defender, you are becoming increasingly shrill and hostile in your comments. You have not proven any of your contentions. All I have read here to date is your saying "The Bible is to be trusted" and have not offered a single reason why that should be the case. Again I tell you: the burden of proof is on you. Moreover, because you find biology and related sciences suspect (and do not offer reasons why they are, beyond saying that they disagree with the bible so they must be wrong), I wonder why you do not find other branches of science to be suspect. Fundamentalism is a disease of the mind, for it robs you of the honest ability to question all things and ultimately to think for yourself. As Robert Ingersoll once said (paraphrased): "Those who give blind allegience to a holy book, or a belief, without question are traitors to themselves and the rest of the human race." The moment we as human beings stop questioning, we become slaves. I fear that is what has happened to you. That, or to judge by your writings, you also write for the Dakota Beacon. Neither one is something you want on your resume! "

Let's start a religion wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:29 AM:

" I propose we start a new religion called Defenderites. We will disavow logic, science, and all common sense. We will have a figure called the Defender who interprets the Bible. The Defender will be the final authority on everything. We will wear black suites with a big yellow D on them. Women will wear a black sheet that covering everything. We will let them stick their head out the top. No modern literature will be in our home schools. If the Defender has any revelations, we will treat them as the direct word of God. We will add another book to the Bible that will deal with revelations of the Defender. Instead of fearing 666 we will fear what ever number appears on our credit card bill. The New Bible will be called The Book of Defender. It is up to the Defender to tell us where he found tablets or other sacred writings. Please join it will be a lot of fun, and we can suppress everyone who doesn't agree with us. We will support Republicans, and hate homosexuals. The Defender will set a date for the world to end. So please sign up before the world ends. Only people who believe in the Defender get to go to heaven. "

--------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:28 AM:

" To: All- We should all tone this down some. Look at example, "Pondering." You folks talk about what you want. My topics I would want to confine to the following, Gods Holy Word, the Bible, Evolution, all aspects of, and the effects each has had in the past and continues to have now. Will not be spending time on these wild accusations. The wilder they are the less response you will get from me, down to and including, "Nuts." If they get real stupid, I won't even give you that.Maybe the editor will decide, when you are contributing and when you are fostering argument and divisiveness. Again my apologies to any I've offended, especialy "

-------------------------- wrote on Jun 21, 2007 8:12 AM:

" To:IT Happens: from -------------- formally defender. I haven't got the time to stare into this computer 16 hours a day, my eyes hurt a little also.Editors have their rules, you folks can have your rules and I will have my rules for this discussion I'm going to model my rules after "Pondering." Actually reads others comments, understands them and makes respectful comments.I will attempt to stay away from, politics,religion, answering these wild and disrespectful comments such as your's.All these religions of the world are man made as well as these denominations My opinion, the Baptists are the closest. The Holy Bible is the Truth of God's word. . "

What was it Defender? wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:43 AM:

" Dear Defender: I was just reading the Bible when I came across this verse in Job. Job 40:15-18 - Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. Could this be the missing fossil we have been looking for. Like so much of the Bible, this makes absolutely no sense. However, I am confident the Defender will explain it in a way we can understand. The Defender sees where others are blind. "

Please Explain Defender wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:24 AM:

" I beseech the great defender to explain this to me. Why do you have to pray to God? When there is misery and suffering why do you have to ask God to do something about it? It seems to me a loving God would take care of the problem without being asked. Why do you have to praise God? Does God really need a bunch of cheer leaders. God seems pretty petty the way he wants us to build shrines to him, praise him, and beg him for everything. The part that puzzles me is he claims to be loving. Why would a loving God make so many opportunities for hate and strife? Only the great defender can answer these questions. In the name of Saint Defender, I beg for a fatwa on these issues. My faith is fragil, and the only person I trust is the Defender. q "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 21, 2007 7:19 AM:

" To: It Happens If you were to look a little further, you would find the answer as to why these people HAD to be removed. Here are a few clues. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. The skeletons of these giants have been discovered all over the world. Commonly, they were about 12 feet tall, but some skeletons of much larger men of renown have been found. Those men of renown had a penchant for killing off those who were not a mixture of fallen angels and mankind. Further study in numerous references of those nations which they built will show you how they enjoyed sacrificing babies, women and men. They also had a habit of making mankind a part of their diet. You should celebrate the fact that God destroyed these hybrids because had He not done so, mankind (as we know it), would quite probably no longer exist. There are some passages in the Bible which are a bit disturbing. One of those troubling verses is Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Does this mean that in the end days there will be hybrids on this earth once again? We do know that man has learned to manipulate the genetic makeup of numerous species. One of those efforts to manipulate the genetic makeup of mankind has been directed toward the creation of super warriors. Will they succeed? Indeed these are interesting times we live in. "

The Old Defender wrote on Jun 21, 2007 6:51 AM:

" The Defender does not believe in evolution. He certainly doesn't believe in the evolution of knowledge. He is sitting with a computer in front of him that would give him access to a wealth of information, but he is stuck on one book that is out of date, it was written over two thousand years ago, has never proven to be accurate, and is never revised. Why would anyone follow someone stuck in one place? Evolution implies change. Change is the last thing that will ever take place with the Defenders thinking. He is correct about evolution in his own case, there is none. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 21, 2007 3:23 AM:

" Defender, you're still hanging in there real good defending what you believe. My compliments. However I, like everyone will try to get a small agreement. Then, like a crack in a dam I will try to drive bigger and bigger wedges in it. Are you ready. I will begin by saying that Galileo and Einstein had something in common other than Relativity and physics. Galileo's treatment at the inquest caused many scientists to migrate to France and England (if memory serves) and France and England were the better for it. When Einstein was kicked out of Germany it was to our advantage and I doubt he came alone. Now as you are pondering that I bring up the fact that Einstein apologized to Isaac Newton for (one upping him) with his improved theories. Newton was still correct but Einstein put "Time" in his equations. He could not only calculate a planets orbits but changes many orbits into the future. (Here is the big one be ready)...... Einstein claimed that mass could drag space and time...... I have taken that to mean that Galaxies tend to move/drag space and time slightly. If the Galaxies are moving outward as if from a "big bang" what does that mean for "Time"? Before there was any mass was there any time? If God made the Universe in stages did time change with each stage? Obviously time as Relativity would measure it has changed with the "Big Bang" and subsequent supernova explosions that made light then heavy atoms, as we now know them. Time to God would be one thing and our time (as according to our scientists) would likely be another. You and I are over 80 something percent water. Water is hydrogen and oxygen. Therefore we are mostly hydrogen and oxygen atoms arguing our interpretation of God. Hard to believe a bunch of accidents of nature allowed us this privilege of discussion at whatever level we are perceived to be arguing at. Certainly Science and the Bible are traveling through time together. "

-------------- wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:56 PM:

" to; Stepper- last one tonight. referring to the six days of Creation -6 six thousand years of dealing with man -6 in six distinct ways -6. the number of man is 6. and when God is through dealing with unbelieving man for 6 thousand years He is going to take the ones that believed Him and take them out of harms way, somewhere way out there. then the seven year tribulation starts for the rest left on earth. the anti-christ will force each one to put the number of man on his forehead 666. showing for everyone that this person preferred to be ruled by man instead of a loving God. and this will literily be, hell on earth. good night. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:42 PM:

" NOW they are ABSURD comments? Its all written right there in your OWN book defender. WRITTEN BY GOD HIMSELF, about how many people he has killed. Typical christian bully, your finally called out with something that you don't have a response too and now were supposed to accept your apology? You have insulted almost every poster on here who has a different idea then you and told us all that we will burn in hell for not following YOUR book. Sorry charlie but it dont work like that. People on here will continue to berate this fantasy you have. Its people like you that have given religion a bad name. You discredit your faith and your religion by your actions, THAT is why every year there are more and more agnostics/athiests. They dont even bother to read the bible to know how fake it is, all they have to do is listen to a few people like you and thats enough for them to realize you are all crazy. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 10:50 PM:

" To: ALL- I think it's time that we toned down all this ABSURD and God killing all these people, etc. I'll be more humble like a Christian is supposed to be and more respectful of your comments. NO more liberal this and liberal that. I won't say ABSURD, this or that. There Are several belief systems that have killed more people than anything else. Evolutionary type thinking that we all came from mush, Abortion, and slavery in one form or another.You decide who supports it. I think we both got off on the wrong foot, and came at each other swinging, instead of discussing. If I've offended ANYONE I'm sorry.Maybe my name should just be --------------. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 10:32 PM:

" To: Stepper Jun 20 2007 7:56 PM-I was supposed to answer this one for Possibilities earlier when she was asking about days.It does say that a day to God is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day.This refers to the seven Dispensations talked about earlier. God took Six Day's to Create everything, He is going to deal with mankind for six thousand years in six distinctly different ways. We are in the last of those dispensations now, Right around six thousand years. On the seventh day God "rested" not because He was tired, but because He was done.Jesus Christ is going to rule in rightiousness the last thousand years and that makes seven thousand years. Between the six and seventh thousand years God will come in the clouds as it says and take away His true believers. The ones left on earth will go through the worst times ever on earth for seven years. Then Christ comes back so that every eye can see him ,actually comes to the earth and rules and reigns.lastthousandyethelasttthatmakthousandyears. Between the six and seventh thousandth year is when the Lord "

Matt wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:47 PM:

" To "Online Editor": I agree, giving awards and prizes wouldn't be to good an idea but you ought to get some kind of recognition for having to referee this feud that's been going on since June 6. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:35 PM:

" To: In The Name Of God-Why don't you just name who he is? I'm not afraid to . God tells us to correct those who claim to be Believers, but are acting ungodly. Benny Hinn stands up on a stage and claims to heal someone by pushing them over and someone catches them, and they're HEALED.I watched Him a few times and haven't since, so I don't know if he ever fails to heal someone, but he must, because even Jesus took 2 times to heal one man' blindness. That has to do with that man's faith though, not with Jesus. You Only get answers to prayer if you truly BELIEVE and are LIVING the life you are claiming to live for Christ. If Benny Hinn relly had the power to heal, wouldn't you think he would go aroud to all the hospitals first and empty them out. Then I would support him and not judge him. "

huh? wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:34 PM:

" The god so many are clamoring for.... "... if it wasn't for god and the fire fighters, i wouldn't be here." The most absolute selfish, self-centered, self-sering, undignified phrase any human could speak ... ALL belief in any supernatural is disgusting. Religion is supposed to be about humility, right? So why wouldn't you be speechless - i.e., dead because you saved another, but instead, you say that you're more special? that's religious humility? Why would you say you know your god well enough to read its mind? that's religious humility? Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc., are right! The religious hold no special favors in a civilized society. Belief in a supernatural being is sick, and pathetic. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:18 PM:

" To: There is NO mixing of Species. No evidence of it either. ALL the FOSSILS show NO change. "

defender Bill? wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:05 PM:

" To:-Dante- Or BAZZZ-I don't believe that that happened, but I wasn't there. I haven't seen that reported anywhere either. I sure don't feel like I'm retired these last few days. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:50 PM:

" To ;ALL - I don't know how many people there are on the Earth. There are less I believe than 7 BILLION, but let's just say there are 7 BILLION people on this Earth. So here's a statement by the defender. " You could fit ALL of those people, giving them each 10 square feet, to stand upright. Into an area a little bigger than 1/2 the area of Connecticut." Now don't say ABSURD, ABSURD, and change the subject. Math does not lie. If you can work this out and don't agree, SHOW you're work. A simple thing anybody can do. DISPROVE defender. C'mon Chavez get you're calcalater out, but SHOW us your work. Defender says,"none of you will, or else you won't show your work or use FALSE figures. Anyone can try, and any one can Google the area in square miles of Connecticut. You' Say BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, WHY should we do this? Please someone chek their work, Pondering? "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:45 PM:

" To Defender: I'm not stopping anything, there are some gaps when comments aren't read, but they aren't purposely put on hold. "

In The Name Of God! wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:42 PM:

" Defender: Here is a great example of one of your truly beloved televangelists speading the "Word of God." Read it and weep because everything he says he says it in the name of God. Religion at its best! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711402047386117379 "

Stepper wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:36 PM:

" To those who have asked: I know God lives because of the miracle of life, the physical world around us, animals, vegetables, minerals, etc. Look at them. How do they know when to go dorment and then return? How do the seasons come and go the same way each year? When leaves dry and fall, why do more come back in spring? What keeps the planets from crashing into each other? Where did gravity come from? The list is endless.How could all that have just evolved with no guideliines or pattern to follow? If it was all chance evolution then there could be mixing of species--what would stop it? God created a beautiful world. He gave us free will and the power to reason. Man uses it to explore, learn, grow from his experiences. God asks that we believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior who died for our sins and if we stay faithful in belief in Him, we will go to heaven. God loves all people and wants all to come to Him in belief. The world will not end until all people have had a chance to hear about God. If after they hear about God (taught in truth and purity, not man's version) and if they reject it, then they will be sent to hell. I believe becuase I have felt the pressence of God's Word working in my life after I had turned away from HIm. Give yourself a chance to look at nature and realize how all of it fits together and runs in harmony and then ask yourself if that happened becuse of chance evolution. If that still makes sense to you, then that is how you believe. No one can make anyone believe anything, one can only plant the seed. If it takes root and grows, good; if not then there is nothing more to be done. It does not make one a liberal or conservative or anything other than a human being believing what is in their heart. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:18 PM:

" To: Editor-Thanks for stopping this for awhile. It's been so interesting to me that I've only eaten 1 meal a day for 3 days and hadn't taken a shower for 31/2 days, but now feel better, thanks. "

dante wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:04 PM:

" Defender Bill-----so, do you beleive that God told bush to invade iraq, as he told pat roberston? and as pat proudly reported? how has retirement been treating you? "

Stepper wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:56 PM:

" Defender...June 18, 2007, 9:10 PM is where Possibilities states he/she has never seen another reference to giants in the Bible other than Goliath thus my post concerning that. You are trying paint me and others with your wide brush of "I know it all and if you don't believe how I believe then you are a liberal" thinking that you so proudly flaunt. You have Thessalonians all wrong but you go ahead and get on that bus of the rapture fairy tale which is not stated whatsover in the Bible. Show me book, chapter and verse where it says rapture and that we "christians" fly away and the unbelievers stay on earth. Go to Matthew 24 where Jesus lays it out what will happen in the ends times or Mark 13 or Luke 21. When Christ does come...all will go before the throne of judgment. Everyone, everywhere at one time will hear the trumpet and see Jesus coming in a cloud...show me where God says only the "believers" will see him or go. The Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians of his time. "how long must you be fed pap?" In other words, how long are you going to be a baby believer? Time to grow up. Again, show me chapter and verse where he says he is only going to come get believers...you are right the dead in Christ shall rise first and I do know sleeping means to be dead. God says that a day for the Lord is like a thousand years..God took 6 days to create the heavens and the earth so that comes to about 6000 years before Adam and Eve got here. Then there was the 7th day and so it was 7000 years. Jesus was here about 2007 years ago so now you have 9000 years and how many thousands of years between creation and Jesus on the earth? Somewhere around 4000 years or so..now you are up to around 13,000. That is just this earth age so far. "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:41 PM:

" To Defender: I'm not sure what you mean, the comments should stay with the letter. "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:23 PM:

" Willy the Libral and others. Those of us who try our best to follow those precepts which benefit and protect mankind from predators of various forms have opposed numerous individuals who have called themselves fundamentalist Christians, Public Servants, World Leaders and leadership in general. Regardless of their verbiage we watch and document their actions. There are numerous individuals from these various groups whom we have vigorously opposed. Individuals who use religion as an excuse for tromping all over the rights of the people have our undivided attention and we make a concerted effort to record their correspondence and speeches. To document their putridity, we photograph them as often as possible when they are meeting with known criminals. Evil (that/those which desires to enslave, denigrate and destroy mankind) has no particular form or affiliation. Evil individuals and populists (dishonest individuals who will put their finger in the wind to find out which way the people are moving) will tell those in the majority that which they want to hear. Their words are meaningless, but their actions usually tell the truth of their intent. People who want only that which is best for mankind are not immune to being mislead and their actions will be as mixed as their understanding. When out of ignorance they have made a mistake but find the truth of the matter,. they will tell you that they had been mislead and what they have now discovered However a conflicted personality (one who tells convenient lies for example) may have telltale characteristics such as drowning their guilt with drugs and/or other exhibitions of their own enslavement. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:15 PM:

" A QUOTE FROM DEFENDER "liberal ideas ALWAYS lead to DEATH of HUMANS. Chew on that for awhile. "" WOWWWWWW if this doesn't demonstrate the mentality of defender nothing ever will. Hey defender how many people has GOD murdered? How many people have died in HIS NAME? You have some sick and twisted priorities there defender you better stop reading the bible before you go over the edge. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 20, 2007 6:49 PM:

" Defender dont flatter yourself, I can write a post in my sleep that debunks any of the gibberish youve been spewing out over the past week. So defender are you blind? or just a coward? Transitional fossils have been posted on this board 2-3 times already and you have chosen to ignore them each and everytime because it blows holes in your little living fossil theory. When smacked between the eyes with something you cannot respond to(and there have been tons) you try to make a joke (none of which are least bit humorous), insult, degrade, or ignore the poster all together, or go back to quoteing the bible. I personally love that last one because right after you do it 20 other people pile on quotes that just show it for what it is. A LIE! You go on believing your lil creationism theory and bowing before some supreme, egotistical, cruel, murdering, being. God sounds like a kid in the cereal isle at the supermarket throwing a tanturm. Only christians could somehow turn someone like this into the all knowing. Many people on here have asked you many questions defender that you just wont answer. The 1st and most obvious is HOW does an almighty being, who knows all and sees all like you christians say, NOT see sin being created? HMMM? Sounds like someone was taking a nap to me. Soo lets see if god DID know they were going to make sin, then everything after is HIS fault right? And if he DIDNT know it was coming you still want us to believe he created all of this? OMG that has to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. You people so make me laugh with your delusions, please please tell me more of them, I can write a book off of this. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 5:35 PM:

" To: editor- Could you please leave my last statement up for awhile? And go on to you're other letters? BECAUSE THIS LETTER CONTAINS THE MOST PROFOUND TRUTHS ANYONE WATCHING THIS DEBATE HAS HEARD IN THEIR LIFE. I think I've earned this small request and you deserve a break also, thank you. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 4:10 PM:

" To: Cavez: This is a little better, but you're still denying science. First, I'll tell you that this overpopulation scare that the liberals started to help them get there culture of DEATH mentality going back in the 60's, abortion, evolution, killing old folks, etc.Show some pictures of starving kids (real), just like pictures of collapsing ice burgs today to scare us into global warming. Remember LIBERALS ALWAYS use EMOTION and DISCARD or MISREPRESENT FACTS, ALWAYS.There really ARE starving kids and collapsing ice burgs.What if I told you that if the world grows to 7 BILLION, they could all fit standig up, 10 sq. ft. each, in an area approximately the size of HALF the state of Connecticut. Don't believe it, do the math. TPeople are starving around the world because of liberal ideas. Remember, liberal ideas ALWAYS lead to DEATH of HUMANS. Chew on that for awhile. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 3:35 PM:

" Defender: Mary Schweitzer has never made that claim. Creationists have. Pondering: where do you get your biographical information from? If your criteria about Einstein is proof that he isn't necessarily a good spokesman for these matters (e.g. "He wrote a lot of letters because he did not get out much.") who here on this comment board is? Certainly not Defender. He is certainly writing a lot of letters and not getting out much. Oh and your statement "Using such a one-dimensional person to claim anything about theology is curious" is REALLY curious when talking about the depth of the creationist mush we have been subjected too. ABSURD. "

. wrote on Jun 20, 2007 3:31 PM:

" To Chavez June 20 1:42 p.m.: Correction. The Bible didn't say the sun and stars revolved around the moon, the "Church" said so. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 3:23 PM:

" To:Pondering - jun 20 2007 12:51 PM and I:08 PM-Thank you for both of those excellent comments. You are getting closer to taking over. There are some others also that make this an interesting debate. To some of you others, if you keep repeating the same NONSENSE over and over in the same way, Chavez, I am not going to answer your post. Because I know you're strategy, its the same one liberals use ALL THE TIME. they just keep repeating the same thing over and over and over until enough people are brain numbed or talked into there position. Ever heard "Tell a lie often enough and you can get any one to believe it." Witness- Wall of seperation between Church and state. Did the ACLU hire you? "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 3:07 PM:

" To: Stepper- Continuing- Why can't you people read? No one said Goliath was the only giant in the Bible. Thank you for looking that other information up. SCIENCE and the Bible ARE TOGETHER. It's evolution and science that are NOT together. The Rapture is an easy way to say what God EXPLAINS in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.The Church, means TRUE BELIEVERS, not a building, will be caught up or raptured, including Christians who have died, in fact they go first. Sleep is a reference to these being dead. After rapture, comes the 7 year tribulation. Thank you for comments towards end of letter. Especially Scripture ref. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 2:48 PM:

" To: Stepper- Dinosaur bones came from Dinosaurs, this one is an easy one.Monkeys have ALWAYS been here since God created them and STILL ARE. THERE ARE NO TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS THAT SHOW MONKEYS CAME FROM A DIFFERENT SPECIES or TURNED INTO ANOTHER SPECIES SUCH AS MAN! Show me the transitional ones OR where I can find them.Not your little kid drawings in you're evolution color books, or some big words some freeloader dreamed up while being given my tax money on a government grant. IN FACT, have you heard of Dr. Mary Schweitzer of Montana State University? She found the leg bone of a Tyrannosaurus rex, and broke open the leg bone fossil, and found Red blood cells and parts of blood veins fexible tissue that she said would be impossible if it was 65 MILLION years old. Maybe a few thousand years old this would be possible. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 20, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Einstein was practically a "Rainman" (if you saw the movie). He was fantastic at math and physics and socially inept. He was very good at spending numerous hours and days alone with his math. His theories of relativity were written at a time he was married to a female physicist (hmmm - wonder if she helped and got no credit). After they divorced he married his cousin. He wrote a lot of letters because he did not get out much. He turned vegetarian in 1954 and died in 1955. Probably needed to know more about protein (seeds and nuts to pure vegetarians). Using such a one-dimensional person to claim anything about theology is curious. Not his area of expertise, that dog wont hunt, wont feed the bulldog, not prudent. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 2:02 PM:

" To:Nodak John- Jun 20 2007 9:16 AM- Yeah. I know you meant surgeon. I'll bet not a liberal caught that, because not only don't they read well, they don't interpret well either. We have PROOF of that right on these posts. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:46 PM:

" You have forgotten a very important part about Humans. God has also given them free will to do what they choose. I do not belive, as people of old did, that God punishes us, but rather he allows things to happen to us. He wants us to come to him but he does not force us. To me that is the best part of God! He wont force you to do anything, it's all about free will! There have been many christian doctors and scientists both past and present. When speaking with many surgeons they have the belief or feel of God guiding them. Too many people look at at God and think he needs to do everything for them and that proves his existence, but looking around, doens't it seem more like he does the little things that only someone looking will notice? Defender, I have never seen anything about the rapture in the bible either. Not specifically mentioned. In Fact Jesus said only the father knows the time and day. There are many passages that could be misinterpreted to signify a rapture but as we have established the bible can be easily twisted when not interpreted properly. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:42 PM:

" To Pondering: Pasteur and other religious men did not insist on the bible as a science guide, nor count upon it as an infallible document. This is an argument conservative Christians often make: appealing to the past and scientists who may have been religious. Galileo, for instance, was a Chrisian; yet the church forced him to recant his observations of a non-Ptolemaic solar system (that the sun and stars revolve around the earth because the Bible says so). He knew better by scientific observation, but to save his life he had to recant what he knew to be true. Really now, in the past 150 years, has there been a scientific discover that the fundamentalists did not oppose because it conflicted with the Bible? As I have said before, if you want to use the bible as a personal spiritual guide, fine. If, however, you intend to use it to dictate laws, science, and culture I will fight that with all that is in me, and I believe I would be joined by the vast majority of Christians in that effort. Fundamentalism stops a thinking mind; and biblical inerrancy stifles free thought and inquiry. "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:31 PM:

" Where do you see me saying that Christians shouldn't vote? I just think that think that a separation between church and state protects believers and non-believers in all faiths. I am NOT PUSHING evolution as a TRUTH, I corrected some common mistakes about the THEORY. I do not know for sure how things happened however long ago, and nobody on this planet knows for certain either. I read as much as I can and find the topic interesting, I just happen to lean towards the side that trys to find evidence not just says it is so because one book says so. I have listened to your views, and find a couple interesting to investigate such as the living fossils, and how some of the fossils we think are intermediate species could have other explanations. Spewing how us "liberals" or "evolutionists" are pushing a theory of death just turns people off and loses your arguments in the shuffle. Most Athiests and Agnostics are very concerned about human life because we believe this is the only life we have. We seek justice in this life, not letting it slide because God will take care of the justice later. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:15 PM:

" Hey, NYxND, seems we read many of the same books! Einstein also said the following about religion: I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms. - Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955. If this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him? - Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years (New York: Philosophical Library, 1950). I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet. - Albert Einstein, letter, 1954 "

Pondering wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:08 PM:

" One of the greatest medical scientists "Louis Pasteur" was a Christian. Did his religion help inspire him to use his microscope to find germs? He found that heat can kill germs, later called "Pasteurization". Then discovered that killed germs can be used to vaccinate a person against a particular virus. Does it bother anyone that the greatest medical discoveries of all time was done by a Christian? "

Stepper wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:00 PM:

" Out of curiosity...Defender where did the dinosaur bones come from? To those who espouse the evolution theory, why are there still monkeys? to the person who said there was only one giant in the Bible (Goliath), there was a land of giants and they were great men of old (Gen.6:4) (Josh. 13:4) (Read Job 40 about behemoth). There was a king who had a 9 cubit long bed in order to fit his size. Of course you can have science and the Bible along side each other. Labeling all who believe in God as fundamentalists is incorrect and fundamentalists are incorrect when they preach rapture theory which appears nowhere in the Bible (read Thessalonians very carefully before you jump all over me). There are so many wonderous things in the Bible and science and so many times they cross each other's lines and that is the wonderful part. Jesus said, "My Father's house has many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (John 14:1-4). In the beginning, God told man to be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth and he did and thereby come all of the discoveries made. Believe as your heart tells you and what is certain in your mind but please, as a matter of being human, do not judge others or brand them with your iron. pax. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:51 PM:

" Most of our medical scientists were Christian. The people who landed on the moon were Christian. Obviously we have been inspired to go beyond some old thinking. Some of the confusion perhaps is the words being used. Doctors have chosen the word "Disease" which they coined from the body being in a state of Dis-ease, or not-at-ease. The word covers everything from germs to conditions. People who have translated the bible, or other religions, had chosen the word demons. Invisible things that go from person to person. Certainly germs and viruses are so small as to be invisible and do have methods of moving from person to person. Jesus did not come to pass out antibiotics and the technology to make them. He was preoccupied with getting people to forgive each other when possible and work together. When good people work together the future can be very interesting. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:47 PM:

" To: ALL- This is what Stephen Gould-Professor of Geology said in 1994, " The history of most fossil species includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism:STASIS-Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear, morphological change is usually limited and directionless. SUDDEN APPEARANCE-In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and "fully formed." More EVIDENCE on God's side. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:09 PM:

" To: possibilities- I'm sure there were some good Catholic Monk scientists that contributed to science. But the Egyptians and the Chinese were figuring out scientific. things, THOUSANDS of years before these catholics showed up.God IS guiding scientists with the brain He gave them. Or, Chavez are we going BACK to the theory of a mushmush brain. "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:01 PM:

" The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even nave. Albert Einstein in a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, December 17, 1952 "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:59 AM:

" I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of "humility." This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. Albert Einstein "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:54 AM:

" "I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - this is a somewhat new kind of religion." Albert Einstein "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:45 AM:

" To: Lady Hope- Jun 20 2007 9:41 AM- One point I forgot to address. I do not blame nonbelievers for this mess of teaching this mess of evolution in our schools. In Fact if anyone even cares about defender's views. I blame the Christians FIRST as God does. Judgment starts at the house of God. Some of these good people are fighting this evolution NONSENSE. But far to many are sitting on their butt for an hour a week and not defending God's TRUTH. Saying Duuu, It must be true, We CAN'T bring our religious beliefs into the VOTING BOOTH, cause those liberal lunkheads say so. I say again, WAKE UP, SPEAK UP, you so called Christians. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:42 AM:

" Defender: Actually, all medical advances in just the past 200 years alone are entirely due to science and had nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible. And Einstein and God? Consider his words upon hearing him quoted as a believer in God of the sort you do: It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. - Albert Einstein in 'Albert Einstein: The Human Side' "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:36 AM:

" "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." [Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press] "

Defender on Mormons wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:32 AM:

" The Defender says the Book of Mormon is baloney, but the Mormons are God fearing people so they are just fine. They have it wrong, but they are right. Makes no sense, read it for yourself, see what the Old Defender has to say about Mormons. The Defender says Mitt Romney believes stuff that is incorrect, but he would vote for him because he is God fearing, even though he fears the wrong God. Wow Defender "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:27 AM:

" To: Lady Hope- I did not mean to infer that you were anything but a decent woman. I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I shouldn't have called you a "liberal", I should have called you an "evolutions", sorry.But if you believe this evolution "theory", you are perpetuating the liberal AGENDA. Which ALWAYS leads to DEATH for HUMANS. So we should keep all the MILLIONS of people of FAITH from voting, right. This is you're idea of democracy right. WHAT have these decent people of FAITH done to you people? Thank you for voting for such a DECENT man as Bush, but pushing this theory of DEATH outways your vote. But I will always call a decent woman as yourself an evolution and not a liberal . "

NYxND wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:26 AM:

" Living Fossils do not discount evolution. Living fossils are species that were known from fossils before living representatives were discovered. These living representatives are NOT exactly like the fossils discovered. Read about the Ginko tree once thought extinct. Living Fossils have to do with speciation and adaption (or the lack of evolutionary need for these). The claim that everything has always been the way it is now because God planned it is ABSURD. Intelligent Design is NOT science. It is an oxymoron. It is NOT science by it's own definition. It provides the answers without scientific method. The only place it has in our schools is in a Social Studies or Theology class. From the bulk of these posts (Defender, do you have a job?) I do see that we have discovered a couple of new intellectual dinosaurs. Oh and NoDak John, It's always great to see you've joined the discussion. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:02 AM:

" To possibilities: I am sorry if I gave the impression that I thought God and science could not co-exist. I am at best an agnostic, meaning that I am not sure there is a God. What I have difficulty with is when any group insists that an ancient holy book could be used as a science book, as fundamentalists insist. That is not to say that is the position of evangelicals in general--far from it--you have many who are quite comfortable with modern science and do not see in it a challenge to the validity of their beliefs in God. Fundamentalism of any faith, bi it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, whatever, are a bane of civilization and the advancement of the human condition. But if there is a God--and perhaps under it all I would like to believe in Him/Her--I think it possible for God and science to co-exist. But when science finds against the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, or Koran, I will go with scientific observation over faith in a book. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 11:01 AM:

" To:Chavez Jun 20 2007 8:39 AM- I started putting even the year in these posts to try and eliminate confusion, in case you evolutions carry this on for a MILLION years. I'm NOT that smart. I'm just looking at the VERY BEST SCIENCE BOOK written in history, and taking in with ALL my senses, WHAT IS. You people have the latest addition, which leaves God out. Which, if you remember Einstein DIDN'T DO. The waters being parted, happened only with the Red Sea, which if you had read the CORRECT science book you'd know has already fallen in on those ol Egyptians, and in the Jordon river, but I would guess that's filled in by now too. Have you noticed any diseases being cured by new drugs, or people being cured in hospitals? Which are miracles coming from that brain God put into us. Or is this the old musmush brain you guy's talk about? I believe we have QUITE a bit of PEER review of the BIBLE. It would be closer to BILLIONS than MILLIONS, I would expect. We' have been talking about PROOF iback and forth for several hundred post's now. I AM NOT going to go over all that. Instead why don't you bring up something new we can debate, on this same subject, such as CARBON or ISOTOPE dating of ages of things? "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 10:27 AM:

" To: DDT- This is another PERFECT example of lunatic thinking by another of these so called environmentalist's "Pondering" was talking about, who is another liberal obviously. I did NOT say DDT was harmless. I said it was CHEAP and not perfect. But instead of regulating it much closer and trying to pour money into finding a better alternative they BAN it. And spend money on their favorite pet projects. I wonder why we republicans want to keep more of our own money?And what is the result of liberal thinking.It ALWAYS leads to DEATH for HUMANS.We have MILLIONS dying EVERY year.from mosquitos that SHOULD have been killed. And I'm sure we could have taken better care not to kill off the birds. A AMEN!!! "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 10:04 AM:

" To: Willy the Libral- Politicians on both sides do lie to each other, on both sides. it was never claimed that all of Bush's administration are or have been FUNDIES. We OBSERVE them to see what they DO not what they say. Bush has kept a lot of what he said by doing it. Trying to stop this LUNACY of killing little BABIES. Letting the people that EARNED the money keep it, including those "evil" corporations. Why don't you bring UP the FACT that the government at least four times the money from a gallon of gas, that the oil companies do. But do we EVER investigate a corrupt government to see if they are spending this money properly, to build and maintain roads, bridges,etc. No we let them keep building huge expensive projects in their Districts. ie. The "bridge to nowhere in Alaska, And the leaky tunnel in Mass. I I believ that is the most expensive "project " in history of U.S. Don't reign in those earmarks. Comparing drunken sailers to these guys in wWashington, gives drunken sailers a diservice, We'll have to cover Guns Gays and I think we're covering God speech pretty well. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:54 AM:

" So Chavez let me get this strait, your reasoning for not believing in God is becuase man has created all of these scientific advances like antibiotics and machines? Is it not possible for the two to coexist? Is it not possible for God to be guiding the scientists? After all the earliest scientists were in fact Catholic Monks! "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:52 AM:

" to DDT; The only reason DDT was taken off the market was that it was so safe for humans that it got overused and began to threaten the eagles, etc. It is still safe for humans and could easily be used again (and is) to eliminate mosquitoes if it is used in moderation. I do understand the concern for the Eagle population, but value the lives of humans slightly more. "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:41 AM:

" I too do not like how Bush has been brought into this conversation, but I must point out that defender has pigeon-holed me as a "Liberal", when in fact, I voted for Bush both times. That is the problem- people prejudge athiests all the time. I do not have a wild lifestyle- I have been faithfully married over 10 years, have 2 children, have strong family values. I appreciate the comments of those who are trying to state their point of view without insulting me based on one lack of belief that I have. Again, I want to point out that we are commenting on an article that is blaming those of us who "Disavow" God for all of the social problems. The Christian point of view was attaching agnostics/athiests first. We have a right to stick up for ourselves also. Why do we need to keep religion out of government? How would you born-again Christians like it if the Catholic laws were enforced upon you? Pondering pointed out that their population rate is growing in this country. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:33 AM:

" To: The Peepstone: This is another good example of the way liberals, who are mostly evolutions, think, interpret, and then make foolish statements. The Bible in NO WAY is similar to some fabricated book of the Mormons. And I suspect that Peepstones version of how they devised this book is not correct. That does NOT matter though, however they attained this book it is not equal to the Bible. Actually the Mormons should read Revelation 22:18-19. All this aside I would vote for Mitt Romney over ANY democrat now in the race. Why because most Mormons are God fearing, decent people.The DEMOCRAT party is the one who supports killing defenseless babies, supports evolution in schools, bigger government, higher taxes, etc. Is accusin our military of tortouring innocents , terrorizing in the middlle of the night. John Kerry called these HERO's returning from Vietnam Rapists and murders reminisent of Ghengis Khaan. He is still ripping our AWESOME and BRAVE soldiers today. Him and John Murtha another of these "phonywar hero's who won't let us see his military records. Sandy Berger in to check em out. That would solve the problem. I did it didn't I rambled into politics, sorry. "

NoDak John wrote on Jun 20, 2007 9:16 AM:

" It is interesting to see how often beliefs are used to justify un-belief. Just because you have been told from early childhood that this and that evolved and you believed that nonsense, does not make evolution a scientific fact. Science has certain elements which it describes a LAWS because those things can be replicated in laboratory experiments time after time and the results are always the same. When a scientists wishes to get others to investigate his tentative explanation of his observations, he puts it out as a theory. The THEORY of evolution is one of the attempts to explain a phenomenon which puzzled Darwin and has puzzled mankind for generations. Some theory have been proven to be correct. One such theory was put forth by Pasteur who postulated that the doctors were somehow carrying disease from one patient to another. We have since learned that his theory was correct and that his theory could be proven in a laboratory because the problem could be replicated consistently. We now know that there are such things as germs and that these germs are the medium by which disease can be carried from person to person. However Pasteur was literally driven to his grave by those people who just KNEW that the best sturgeons were those who had the most blood and gore on their uniforms. As far as evolution is concerned, scientists can not prove or disprove that there is an entity we call God, but they do know that the amazing order of the universe requires a designer. To espouse a theory (with no demonstrable scientific facts) to be a law is a quantum leap of faith. By all means do look up the so called transitional forms such as Eusthenopteron which was discovered in Canada. Look at what they call a proof. A fossil where there was so little left that they had to construct an example of transitional form out of whole cloth. Now that is faith in its extremes. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:47 AM:

" To the others who depend on the Bible or their faith in place of science to explain the world around them, fine. But in doing so at least be consistent. If biology, geology, and paleonotology is suspect to you then also reject the rest of science, too for it depends on peer review as well. Do you have an infection? Well don't go to the doctor then for meds; after all it was that "satanic science" that discovered antibiotics! Do you have cancer? Same there, if you are consistent, you would deem medical science as suspect, too. Besides, the bible says you merely have to pray to get healed, so I guess all that is covered, right? Don't dive your car or take an airplane or train, either--mechanical engineering are responsible for those, not bible fantasy. Do not ride or walk on the streets or sidewalks either--science made those possible, you know. Do not send your children to school--after all, those godless subjects like biology are taught there and we cannot have that, can we? Every bit of your life is touched by science and all branches of science engage in the peer review process. The bible does none of those things. But let us list the "Creation Science" discoveries...sorry, but there are none. "

Chavez wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:39 AM:

" To Defender: You demand that proof be given for evolution before it is taught in the classroom. WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THE BIBLE ACCOUNT IS ACCURATE? Science is a self-correcting system that depends on peer review and testing of theories. These change over time as more knowledge is obtained. Not so with the bible. Your approach, Defender is backwards: YOU START WITH THE BIBLE AND WORK BACKWARDS, DEMANDING THAT MODERN SCIENCE BE IN AGREEMENT WITH IT. Science starts with an hypothesis, goes on to a theory as elements of the original hypothesis are shown to be accurate, and when, as in the case of evolution, the evidence is overwhelming, it is accepted as as close to fact as can be. WHAT ARE YOUR PROOFS FOR BIBLICAL CREATIONISM? For that matter, your lame attempts to explain miracles in the Bible skirted my question to you earlier. Where are the waters being parted? the dead raised, diseases cured bia miracles? You want us to accept the bible as fact but have yet to offer on iota, one jot and tittle that it is dependable. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:12 AM:

" TO: Pondering Jun 20 2007 1:15 AM- ANOTHER one,great. I'm thinking you may be the top candidate to take over this job when I retire. We'll have to wait on that though, to LOOK at MORE evidence. You have common sense with a much BETTER pair of reading glasses than ANY of these evolutions. Also, they take ONE fossil out of 100,000,000 and say it proves evolution. The one that resembles a BIRD/ REPTILE. If this showed up a MILLION or a BILLION times, I'd say hey, we better take a look at this. Why not OBSERVE, and THINK instead. Here's possible NOT provable "theory." Would a reptile such as this eat a bird if given a chance? Probably. O r COULD this reptile have been standing behind a bush and the bird on the other side, yes, probably. DO trees fall in the forest, YES. MAYBE a tree fell and scared the bird into flight and the tree fell on them BOTH, squishing them down into the ground together with such force as to make them look as ONE. YES, the trees back then were as bigg or bigger as they are now. Is this THEORY PROOF that this happened? NOOOO. "

DDT wrote on Jun 20, 2007 8:05 AM:

" If you want a splendid example of the Defenders mind in action go back and read his comments on the use of DDT. Few chemicals ever had the potential to damage our ecosystem more than DDT. The good old Defender says, " So what if a few birds die?". DDT almost wiped out the Eagle population in this country. It seems ironic, and symbolic that the Defenders gang would promote the chemical that wipes out the symbol of our country. Calling DDT a harmless useful chemical that has been maligned is what you get with the Defenders version of science. We can all look forward to more scientific pronunciations from Pope Defender. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:53 AM:

" To: Pondering Jun 20 12:44 AM-This post shows WISDOM. Gained by EXPERIENCE and OBSERVATION. You evolutions should read this ENTIRE post. On second thought, the way you people INTERPRET things please read it at least a MILLION times. "

Willy the Libral wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:43 AM:

" There is a strong connection between religion and politics in this country. To get elected a person has to pretend to be religious. If a politician cannot suck in some of the irrational deluded people he will not get elected. It is a difficult task to appeal to the people caught up in the religious nonsense, and at the same time to appeal to people willing to deal with reality. If you took the time to study the Bush administration by reading what some of the people who left it wrote, you will find they just laughed behind the backs of the fundies they co-opted. A lot of fundies wised up and will turn on the Republicans, but it is a simple matter to get them back with the Guns, Gays, and God Speech. The Defender proves better than anyone the Danger the fundies see in intellect and education. They feel strongly only one book is needed in a library, The Bible. One encouraging fact about freedom of religion is that when the religious right becomes dominant, they turn on themselves. Iraq shows this in action. once Saddam was out of power the religous nuts turned on each other. The fact that they eat their young is our best hope. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:38 AM:

" To: It Happens Jun 20 4:05 am- I see you stayed up almost all night thinking. This post PROVES it didn't help. But I should modify something I said at the beginning of this debate.Over twenty years ago , LOOOONNNG before the internet, I found out about living fossils. At the time it was stated that there were 500+ LIVING FOSSILS. Thanks to the internet and more research into "Stasis", this refers to fossils, though not living, have remained unchanged no matter the time period we think they came from.There are MILLIONS of these types of examples, actually EVERY FORM OF LIFE ON THE PLANET, just like God said it IS. So then, FOSSILS are ACTUALLY a PROOF that should be on God's side. This is a FACT on the side of Creationism. You are WRONG again The Bible and evolution CANNOT be taught side by side! OIF EITHER one is TRUE it DISPROVES the other. Better go get some sleep. "

possibilibities wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:36 AM:

" It's amazing, the ultra left wingers and their hate bush mantra can't seem to let go of it even for a discussion that doesn't pertain to hating bush. Those of you that have decided to blam the so called religious right for all problems today, maybe you should go to a left wing country like China or North Korea where God is strictly forbidden and the government controls every aspect of life. After doing that, come back and tell me how evil those who believe in God are. I think we should all be thankful we live in a place where we can have this discussion online with Defender, share differences of opinion. Many places of the world this would not be allowed period. "

The Peepstone wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:32 AM:

" Read the history of the Mormon Church and you will find that a stone was placed in a hat. Joseph Smith looked into the hat and translated the tablets he found with the help of the peepstone. This sounds ridiculous, but now millions of people believe this fabricated nonsense. Most Christians would see it as such, but they persist in believe similar nonsense that was perpetrated earlier. The Mormon Church is a good example of religion invented right before our eyes in modern times. Why is it so hard to see Christianity was just another successful con game? "

Easily Deluded wrote on Jun 20, 2007 7:28 AM:

" When people are easily deluded the rest of us are threatened. The best example ever was Hitler's Germany. No one ever imagined a whole group of people could so easily be led down such a terrible path. The Defender shows how the mind of these people can be sold a bill of goods. Once people abandon reason they are ripe for exploitation. Usually it is the oppressed who respond best to propaganda. Religion is nothing but an elaborate propaganda system. My goal is to let people see what can happen when the Defender types spin out of control and people actually believe them. That is why it is important to expose them. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 20, 2007 4:05 AM:

" Defender I see where you are coming from with the whole evolution theory. BUT you cannot take a handful of living fossils and say it proves it. There are also lists of animals that WERE transitional and they were listed on here, you just chose to ignore them. At the same time there are MILLIONS of animals on this planet and you have found a few hundred living fossils. We should be digging up bones of EVERY animal that looks exactly the same as they do today, but we dont. Something changed, even you have to admit that because your website all but proves it buy the small amount of animals found out of MILLIONS they should have found. You say evolution cannont be taught because it isnt based on FACT. Im going to give you that one its not 100%. But if you think for one second creationism is based on 100% fact yer nuttier then a squirrel turd there my friend. Either we teach both or we teach neither, thats just the way it has to be. One cannont prove the other one false, I think weve proven that on this board. Man I just love this topic hehe. Thanks editor for not shutting it down so quickly. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 20, 2007 1:15 AM:

" To online editor. This is not just a science verses religion argument. You see repeated posts where a person has bought-into the hate-bush mantra and blames the religious right for his election. So yes it is science verses religion but the underlying theme is anger at the religious right for electing a republican. It would seem that a lot of ultra left liberals think they do not play follow-the-leader also. A lot of ultra lefts are chopping and hacking at the Old Testament as never before. It is as if they think they can win an election by breaking down a person's religion. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:44 AM:

" Defender, you are hanging in there pretty good. Actually the people that are afraid of the Religious Right dominating elections are in for a big surprise. You are not representative of the liberals worst enemy. California's White Christian Protestants are now outnumbered by so called minorities. The biggest swing vote in California is now Mexican Catholics. California is a winner-take-all state with a very large number of Electoral Votes. The liberals are chipping away at the so-called red states (from last presidential election) but they are confused. The Pope will have a lot to do with future elections. That is why both political parties are afraid to build a meaningful border fence or enforce laws on our southern border. People are very unhappy at our politicians for not enforcing laws that would prevent cheap labor from flooding in. Many factory owners want the cheap labor and want the politicians to quickly make it legal for them to hire illegal aliens (and not arrest the factory owners as they deserve). They already have the law as less than a misdemeanor to come in the country illegally. Cheap Catholic labor will continue to flood in and be legalized by hook or crook. The liberal activist will be so busy buying them off that people like you will soon be invisible to the gays, druggies, and phony environmentalists (as opposed to the real environmentalists). Most of the phony environmentalists that plug up our courts with lawsuits will continue to fight the so-called religious-right. Moral Majority is a good term to describe most Christians that founded and developed the culture of this country. The liberal politicians are very divided. Most liberal politicians know that the anti-christians, gays, and other radicals they brought into the party are not compatible with Catholic Mexicans they are helping flood into the country. Both of our political parties seem to be trying to self destruct. Republicans always want cheap labor but also want to be seen as "law and order" and very moral. The next presidential election will be really fun as this gets more obvious. "

defender wrote on Jun 20, 2007 12:28 AM:

" To;possibilities Jun 19, 9:36 I would like to stay away from politics as it just makes more people mad. Even though it does make a HUGE difference who you vote for. Every vote is important. Have you ever heard the saying " It is better to TEACH someone to fish, than it is to GIVE them a fish"?I believe this gives a person more dignity if he can do his own fishing and take care of his family. And that is God's way too, "For even when we were with you,this we commanded you,that if any would not work, neither should he eat." 2 nd Thessalonians 3:10. notice it's would NOT could. Prep for evolution's interpretation. This is one of the republicans basic tenets also. Every person should have the dignity God intended. We've come through some of the worst times in the last few years that can kill an economy. And after 9/11 stock market crash, corporate scandal, etc. although we lost jobs initially we lost jobs we hav e a net gain in jobs by 5 MILLION or so since Bush took office. One BIG reason was tax cuts for everyone. Keeping more of our own money and spending it smarter than those LOONEY'S in Washington ever could. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:44 PM:

" To-Possibilities Jun 19 9:27 P.M. Pretty good post. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:40 PM:

" To: You confused me Defender-Please all of you this nutjob is PROOF of what I say about liberals misinterpreting, twisting, my statements, and then coming out with a completely misleading statement of what I actually said.Go to a post I posted just a while ago and and SEE what I said about Einstein and his belief about God, compare to what this evolution says.I said concerning Einstein- 1- He did NOT believe in a personal God,which ours IS. 2 He believed in Spinoza's God, whoever that is. 3 made several comments inferring some form of intelligent design is obvious in this "created" world.4 Made statement "Science without religion is lame,religion without science is blind." "

Online Editor wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:38 PM:

" To Matt: It is amazing, this letter has had a long life. I have talked to Mr. Knox on the phone and he is amazed by the response as well. The argument over science and religion has been going on since before Galileo's time and goes on within every religion, not just Christianity. If we start handing out awards, do I get anything for reading most of these comments? Just kidding. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:20 PM:

" To:IT Happens-Jun 19-8:03 p.m.- I am just saying that we want our children educated. We don't TEACH "the Wizard of Oz" to our kids because we know it isn't true. If "evolution" is true, all I'm asking is show us proof before you TEACH it to trusting kids. Trusting they're hearing the Truth. This evolution is not only being taught in school's, it's being taught in SCIENCE class. It is NOT science. Science is things based on FACT. We have two interpretations, that most people believe, either, or. We should take in information with all of our senses, and then determine which one fits best. I'm going to say it again.Go to LIVING-FOSSILS.com.Not only are there NOT, thats NOT any Transitional fossils. When there are millions of forms of life. The evolutions won't even admit their t AGE determination theory's are not interpreted correctly. There are many things they don't take int account or ignore completely. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:40 PM:

" To:Pondering- I meant that when the FLOOD happened, that the earthquakes had to be so HUGE that our Rickter scales aren't designed to measure something that huge. "

Matt wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:39 PM:

" To "on line editor": Bill Knox should get some kind of prize or award for the number of responses to his letter. Making the top of the list! He accomplished that! "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:19 PM:

" To: peaceful co existence- Some very good thoughts, thank you. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:07 PM:

" To: ALL- I think some of this controversy comes from the Scripture verses I had in my original letter. These were merely verse's I quoted showing showing how God felt about government. And how God feels about people that don't believe in Him despite the evidence all around them. He didn't say have so many senators and so many representatives with these lengths of terms. and have a supreme court with so many judges,etc. I thought it would be helpful to read some scripture,and also to see some things from Gods point of view. Reading scripture is always helpful no matter what the problem or circumstance. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:51 PM:

" To: Pope Defender the Dangerous- I could rest my case right now and just show the jury some of the post's some of you have written. Your case would be thrown out for LACK OF INTELLIGENCE.Why don't you "educated" people take a guess as to how many defenders there are.I'm SURE you would either guess in the MILLIONS or the BILLIONS. YOU people just prove more and more as this posting goes on, that you think you evolutions can bring all of you're beliefs into the voting both. No matter how ABSURD.But when that curtain closes behind us ZZZPPP, all of the beliefs we've acummulated thru a lifetime of learning and experience have to be discarded. Pretty soon Christians are going to have to carry big signs over their heads saying FUNDIE on it. We'll be herded to a certain area called FUNDYROOM. Then we'll all be strip searched to make sure we have no Bible verses stuffed in our pants and socks. Hey, I think I heard something simular happening not too far back. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:36 PM:

" While I dislike Bush, I don't see anyone on either side of the aisle right now that impresses me. They all claim to be religious and start going to church about this time. They all tell us all what we want to hear. I notice the democrats haven't gotten too far on their promise to get us our of iraq, they can't even get a minumum wage passed, but they sure made promises and told the people what we wanted to hear! Yeah I know, off topic for this discussion, but I get so frustrated because both parties are the same when it comes down to it. Supposedly the religious right elected bush, that's probably at least partially true, but I can guarantee you he has not kept any of his promises to his constituants either. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:27 PM:

" As much as I am enjoying this debate even though I don't agree with everything defender has to say, why is it there seems to be one or two that has to drag something totally not related in to all this? Who cares who he voted for, who cares how much school he had? We talk about the religious right and how dangerous it would be for them to elect a president, but what about the far left who think man is evil and destroying the earth? Extremes to either side are very bad. I think there have been some very sane people here talking about Einstein and his belief in God, and he truly was a brilliant man! There is no reason science and god can not co-exist, but I fear some scientists are so content to disprove there is a god that they gloss over very import facts in their research! Also, earlier posting talked about us being an experiement of aliens? While I can't honestly say beyond the shadow of a dout that we are alone in this universe, I doubt we are their experiements. If anything they are another race created by God. Anyone who does believe we are an alien experiment should probably go find tom cruise and john travolta becuase they are about the only people that would listen to you. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:27 PM:

" To: Tell the Truth Defender- I don't know who wins this one. I was drinking heavy and doing other crazy things by the time I was 16, quit school in 11th grade. Then went in the Army and got my GED. Also took some physics courses.Came out went to two years community college studying Architecture.Went to a couple of trade schools. But if I had gone to college in the last few decades I would have had the same liberal professsors craming their evolution and liberal thinking down my throat that others did.Do you know that when Princeton and Harvard were founded, you had to profess a belief in God and the Bible as an entrance requirement? Now if you bring a Bible on campus, you'll be asked or told, if an ACLU lawyer is around, to get that trash off campus. Or you will be laughed off campus. I am so THANKFUL to God that he didn't have it in His plans for me to go to college. You can SURE TELL what effect this is having on our society. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:05 PM:

" To: Dear defender-This is in fact how God designed the system. and you're supposed to be this way with you're wife only. Most men automatically keep this under control. Some can't, it's akin to overeating Some people just can't stop eating when they see good food. Witness American people. And beside this I'm going to state a fact that you will come back and deny in public but wonder if you admit to God in private. ALL men with good vision have looked a time or two in their lives at a woman that had all the right stuff in all the right places, and had a thought or two that they probably shouldn't have. If you deny I will have to say as God says you are a liar. Please read Matthew 5:28. "

You confused me Defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:52 PM:

" One moment the Defender cites Einstein as a splendid example of a scientist believing in his God, now he accuses Einstein of having a girlfriend, and has relegated him to a man with a mind of mush. Defender you confuse me. You cite Einstein to bolster your case, then you claim you don't want to read what he says. The way you dance around on everything is a sight to behold. However, I think you are dancing on thin ice. Intellectual ice that is, but you are still my hero. You have done more to destroy the image of the religious right than any six other fundies combined. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:38 PM:

" To: Don't get the Eve Stuff- Sorry, I missed your post- You have got to quit thinking God is you're next door neighbor. When Adam sinned, that brought DEATH to the world. Why did God Institute this system? I don't know all the answers.Did you read Isaiah 55:8-9/A couple of thoughts. God IS the creator of the Universe, He makes the rules. Also, this life consists of a few years.Compared to Eternity. There is NO number big enough to compare this ratio.He is showing mankind That no matter what He does for people or what they see, they still will not do what He asks them to do or not do.Hence the 7 dispensation's. People know they're not equal to God , but they star thinking they're getting pretty close. Why does this guy tell me what to do. He created EVERYTHING in the universe, including every cell in this person's body but The Creator isn't allowed to ask this measly little pathetic man nothing. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:03 PM:

" "WAKE UP Christian's and FIGHT this evil slime in your schools! " hahahahaha Thats the funniest line I have yet to read in all of these posts. You know its not that everyone on here doesn't believe in a higher power. It's they DON'T believe in the BIBLE!!!!!!! Mans interpertation of god in the bible has been so twisted and basterdized since the beginning that its hard for people to follow a book where you are told do this, DON'T do that and the bible does all of the things it tells you NOT to do. If you look at the bible for morality then your looking in the wrong place. It advocates predjudice, cruelty, even murder. Christians that believe their way is the ONLY way has to be one of the most arrogant, dispicible, self-deluded statements ever made, and THAT is the part that really erks people the most. It's usually the people who claim to be the MOST christian of people that act the LEAST christ-like. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:48 PM:

" To: Pondering- I believe that the oceans may rise some and go back down again. I don't know about the 200-300 ft. Nobody does for sure do they? The FLOOD was a one time event and covered every mountain even with water. Nobody KNOWS how high those mountains were at the time, because we weren't there. They may have been a lot lower than they are now. Because plate techtonics is a fact that we can observe now. I believe that we have seen hardly anything that is caused by plates moving compared to what was done in the flood. With massive mountain ranges being pushed up, earthquakes that we couldn't even measure with our scales today. When the flood came was one of several tremendous judgements God brings on humankind,because the whole population of the earth just about was thumbing their nose at God. How many did He save out of the whole earths population of I'm certain MILLIONS? It was eight. NOAH, his three sons and the wives of these men. "

Tell the Truth Defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:40 PM:

" Tell the truth Defender. Do you have any formal education beyond Highschool? I have a bet with a friend the answer is no. If you went to college, where. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:30 PM:

" To: Einstein and the Defender-I guess if you want to know the TRUTH. I believe Einstein was a great intellect and scientist, he even admitted didn't know everything. But really I don't care to read everything Einstein said. He was merely just one example of a Brain God created, that you people keep telling us came from some sort of mush. I don't buy that, it makes NO sense. Why are most of you against God? Its because you know if you truly make that commitment you'll have to change your beliefs and maybe even some things you enjoy doing.Where did EMOTIONS come from in the mushpile? Maybe Einstein felt the same way. Didn't he have a live in girlfrien ? "

Pope Defender the Dangerous wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:26 PM:

" Read the complete writings of Pope Defender on this comment section, you will see why politics and religion are such a dangerous combination. There are way more Defenders than most educated people would guess. The Defender types are allowed to vote, they do vote. You can see by these comments that nothing penetrates the Biblical veil they are behind. We are all at risk if these people play a role in electing the next president. We will be again subjected to four more years of a President elected by the Religious Right. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:17 PM:

" To: Pondering- I didn't say that Einstein was Christian. Christianity is a faith NOT what race or Whatever you are . All the very first Christians were Jews. All 40 of the writers of the Bible were Jews except Luke- Luke & Book of Acts. By the way Luke was a physician. Pretty smart for a Christian, huh? Of course he had never heard of the garbage of evolution. Didn't observe it either. God invites EVERYONE, no matter if you are Arab, Jew, Eskimo, African, Non-Believer, etc. to come to Him and enjoy freedom from fear of death,and KNOWING you are one of His special adopted children.Know this- If you give you're heart to Christ, Admit you'ree a sinner and repent of your sins and do the best you can honestly do to follow Him., you can for sure expect to be redicled and persecuted just as He was. Think about it. Jesus SHOWED thes ssinful people MIRACLE after MIRACLE and the still rejected im. What do you think they are going to do to you? "

peaceful co existence wrote on Jun 19, 2007 6:09 PM:

" This is a subject nearly everyone feels strongly about even thought we all approach it from a different perspective. Each person has their own privately held beliefs and are entitled to them up to and including beliefing in nothing. I don't demand that others be like me and I don't accept that I must be like them. But what is required of a society in order for it to function is that we have respect for each other, regardless of our individual beliefs. Otherwise you have chaos, hate, loathing, distrust, contempt, envy, disrespect, feelings of being superior to others, fear, misinterpretation, prejudice, the list is longer than there is room to note it. Whether you donate to a mosque, church, synagogue, tribe, temple, club, community, group, charity, I believe the goal of that giving is to acknowledge the importance in your life of that thing that is the object of your giving. Giving isn't a tax, it isn't required in my religion. Personally I wouldn't affiliate with any religion or belief system that requires you to give. I donate to my place of worship out of respect for what it is trying to do and because it is where I feel most at home. I want it to be there when I return. It's part of the family I want to be a part of when this world assumes it's rightful and inevitable status of a pass through destination. To you that have no plans after this world, enjoy it while you can but please respect that others may have different plans. I pledge to respect you but may not always agree with you and I also ask that you respect me even though you may not always agree with me. That's the formula for peaceful co existence "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 5:46 PM:

" To: Your all NUTS!!!!- Another liberal letting his thoughts dictate the facts. Liberal FIRST, and EVERYTHING else SECOND. Every True Christian should take a look at this ONE statement about flying to Vegas though. I am not saying you shouldn't do this or that. Just realize NON-CHRISTIANS are watching you're EVERY SINGLE MOVE under a microscope. And WILL judge the the worth of your FAITH by what you DO, NOT by what you say. You are responsible to God for every thing you DO and SAY as a Christian. Please tell us WHEN, WHERE, and by WHOM these FACTS were disproved by. Hint- in you're mind dosen't count. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 19, 2007 5:35 PM:

" Defender. After every ice age the Oceans again rise 200 or 300 feet. The ice melts to form inland seas that often flood their way to the ocean as ice barriers or other barriers break down. If you live by the ocean where fresh water rivers meet the sea (most do). Or if you live by the Black Sea anywhere near mount Ararat back then............ ? Science and the Bible have certain consistencies. Science tries to put a little extra understanding to things. Claiming every Biblical disaster was because God was angry at some sinner is perhaps not the entire story. It is easy to believe that the great ice melt effected most cities of the world just by the ocean returning to it's previous level. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 5:27 PM:

" To: Defender has big Job-My goal is to wake up Christians and others who are on school boards, parents, kids etc. what an evil teaching "evolution' is. It leads to a DEATH mentality. Teen agers and others are struggling with LIFE'S issues. This gives them more of an out to commit suicide, have an abortion, and have Granny euthanized because she tripped on the steps.If we came from mush and there is no after life whats the difference if I commit suicide. God says we are, EVERYONE of us, SPECIAL and He has a plan for us, if we will seek Him. So ESPECIALLY to you Christians out there, WAKE UP and DO SOMETHING to STOP this junk from spreading. "

Einstein and the Defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 5:19 PM:

" Glad you finally read something beside the Bible. If you kept going with Einstein you would find out he believes in a very elegant God, not at all like your redneck God. Also you will find Einstein did not believe all the nonsensical crap you keep bringing up. As always you pick an choose what you want when you refer to text. Read the address Einstein gave to The Princeton Theological Seminary May 19, 1939, in its entirety, and you will see the difference between the way a genuis deals with God, and a redneck. You will find Einstein did not endorse Christianity, and did not think Chrisitians had a monopoly on dealing with God. Don't pick and choose, read the whole thing. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 19, 2007 5:03 PM:

" Defender, if you check you will find that Einstein was Jewish not Christian. Actually Einstein really wanted to understand the mind of God through improving math and physics. He wanted to understand why the objects in the "heavens" moved the way they do. Why light behaves as it does. Why gravitation is as it is. After he was kicked out of Germany by the Nazi's for being Jewish, and all his property taken, his pacifist nature was challenged. Later when fellow scientists warned him of the Nazi attempt to build an Atomic Bomb he was forced off the fence. He wrote a famous letter to President Roosevelt recommending we race to get the Atomic Bomb first. Whether or not he knew that the Jews being interned were also being gassed I do not know. He only knew that evil was on the march and he could not remain a pacifist. The Bible mentions similar stories and paragraphs cannot be taken out of context. The only point where evolution and the bible seem to conflict badly is in the original creation of the earth. Science says there was a Big Bang when nothing exploded and became Galaxies. Religion says they know who did it. Religious people want to visualize history as happening very fast. Repeatable scientific experiments show it must have happened very slowly. Religious people want to take the moral high ground. Atheists often allow hollywood to lead them. The last election placed San Francisco's Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. Hollywood values seem to be winning but compromises are happening that keep us on our fence. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 4:51 PM:

" To: Lady Hope- Please list missing links in the Bible.There are litterly MILLIONS of missing links in evolution. Basically for EVERY form of LIFE on this planet. Please read upcoming post on what Einstein SAID. SCIENCE and GOD agree 100%. Please list just ONE of the places science DISAGREES with God. Liberals are ALWAYS liberals FIRST and whatever else they are second. If they are "scientists" or "teachers"etc. It doesn't matter their NON BELIEF ALWAYS OVERRIDES their findings and common sense. Witness CARBON and ISOTOPE readings findings for ages of things.Report findings that only agee with their assumptions. And they ALWAYS answer a specific question with 1-Changing The Subject or 2- Ramble on about something they have NO proof or reference for except "Darwin" or make some other vauge statements. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 4:32 PM:

" To: Dear Defender:- I knew Einstein would bring you out. He didn't believe in a personal God, but, Ency.Britannica says "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists;"This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist:"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element.I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details. Einsteins famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was, "God does not play dice"-and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was" Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 4:01 PM:

" To: Mouth from the South:-Jun 19 2:15 p.m. All I can say is thats the best I ever heard any one explain all these phony Christians in the church. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 3:53 PM:

" To:Dear Defender please explain- God, if you remember set this whole system up in GENESIS 1. Thats, GRAVITY, LIGHT, EARTH, MAGNETISM, This AMAZING weather system.etc.ALL This system just keeps working. The weather system does change things but doesn't change one animal species into another. It produces tornadoes flood, hurricanes, etc.He doesn't tinker with it and adjust gravity, etc.He did promise in GEN.9:11-17 to not FLOOD the earth again.And the RAINBOW is the sign He gave us for this.All this stuff is in motion, but He limits what He changes to what Committed Christians pray for.He is not egotistical. Are you thinking that God creating this univerese is equal to you going out and frying a burger on the grill?He said people could even move mountains if your faith is strong enough. Apparently NO ONE has ever had that much faith. This ddoesn't work like liberals saying they believe in free speech and clamp down on it every chance they get. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:54 PM:

" To: the defenders view of History- We covered this a couple of days ago and I'm a little leery about picking on the Catholics too much. Most of them I met are the nicest people I've ever met and DO MORE to help other people than most. They have a few fuzzy beliefs, that I just don't go along with. The Roman Catholics of 400-1500 years ago were not considered Christians by most. They sold "indulgences" so the richer could sin with "absolution." And sold the office of Bishop to the highest bidder, among other things.There is a book titled "Foxes Book of Martyrs," that agrees with this. And secular history also backs this up. "

Your all NUTS!!!! wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:43 PM:

" to defender: The Bible has thousands of facts of peoples, events,places,etc.Please LIST the ones that have been disproven ---- Let me take a stab at this-----Noahs Arc---Parting of the Red Sea....Unless you all believe in Chris Angel (maybe he is jesus's brother, Christians fly to Vegas-but why would Jesus's brother be in sin city?)...Then maybe you can believe in the Noahs Arc, Joana and the Whale, Adam and Eve. If we all came from Adam and Eve would that mean that we are all alittle mental (couldnt use the world I wanted to), being closely related back then? "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:34 PM:

" To: Mouth from the South- Some very good points. Why is mosquito borne diseases spreading so fast in this and other countries? One of the main reasons is some liberal wrote a book called "Silent Spring" in the 90's.It charged that some birds were disappearing because of DDT. With no proof, just using emotion instead of logic as ALWAYS. Liberals have figured out ONE thing. People respond to these trumped up EMOTIONAL issues.DDT wasn't perfect but it was CHEAP and we could supply a lot of it to these poor countries.Now instead of MAYBE having a few dead birds, we have for SURE, literally MILLIONS of dead people EVERY year because of the way these insects are proliferating. You will NOTICE where evolution ALWAYS leads, to the cheapening of Human lives. Abortion etc. "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:27 PM:

" to The Defenders View of History; Who said all Catholics,etc. are Christians? Just because you sit in a church on Sunday morning in a Christian Church, doesn't necessarily translate to being a Christian. Just means you are in Church on Sunday Morning doing the socially acceptable thing. The only fact with the Inquisition was that it was the doing of the Catholic Church. Whether the people who ordered the violent acts and the people who carried out those acts were Christians in the truest sense will never be known. I, personally, question that they were. Basing this opinion on the teachings from my background. But again, it is not my place to judge them. "

Your all NUTS!!!! wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:26 PM:

" America has access to welfare, food stamps, homeless shelters, etc. I would like to point out that no matter how in need you are - maybe you still have a shred of self worth to not want this countries government have control in your life- most would probably tell you they would much perfer staying homeless than to have people take away some of their freedoms by getting this help. When you go to Africa as you are handing out corn feed/netting do you tell them how they have to live, how many children they can have and if they have to many they are stupid? In this country we do not help just to help out of the kindness of our hearts (as gods intents where) we stipulate---now if you take this help we now control you! We will judge you We will tell you what you can afford and what you can not- You will lose your selfworth because others that are better than you will now judge you!!!! Wake up America does not help our own people. Why is it that a priest in our own state boosts about getting a vacation on a cruise ship so he can do the mass on Sunday-----Really he sounds as if he is teaching the word of the Lord. Sickening if you ask me.....makes me want to puke in the name of the Lord. Hey but he came back with a tan. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:18 PM:

" To: The Defender is my Hero- How did you know I had a cape? I just tripped on the darn thing this morning. Liberals ALWAYS have their candidates run on emotion. ie; Republicans want to stave our kids in school, global warming, National Health care,etc. Instead of LOGIC. 99% of the people at a football game would either like a prayer or wouldn't mind a prayer, before their kids go at it, bashing their heads together. But there is this ACLU lawyer, under the stands taking notes.Always moving the goal posts just like evolution. We have a medicare and s/s system going broke. But they not only refuse to fix this, but want to add BILLIONS to the deficit they are CONSTANTLY whining about. That's example of LOGIC. If there is ONE thing all of us SHOULD AGREE on is that the government is the most efficient system that has been invented. Why not let the compitition of the free market take all of this over. OH NO, thats those EVIL coorporations, that actually aren't evil at all. But provide JOBS for these people so they can feed their family's Coorporation' "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:15 PM:

" A true Christian, one who follows Christ, did not do the acts during the inquistion. Christ's teachings do not allow for murder, rape, robbery, etc. If you think, for one minute, that the people who perpetuated these acts were Christians, than you had better pick up a Bible and read it completely. Anyone can call themselves a Christian but the truth will and can be shown by their deeds. And that is where the difference lies. I do not think it is my place to judge the TV Evangelists, but, in my opinion, they have lost sight of the true meaning of faith in their zeal to preach the gospel to all peoples. A true Christian does not take money through manipulation of or by bilking his or her audience. Sometimes people think that the end results justify any means. I don't buy that philosophy. Even spreading the word of Christ does not justify taking money from elderly people with debts or putting anyone in debt by donating to your cause. I was raised in a Christian Church and even as a small child could tell which people tried to follow Christ's teachings on a daily basis and which ones seemed to do it only on Sunday morning. The same observation still holds true today. "

Defender has big Job wrote on Jun 19, 2007 1:59 PM:

" Defending something that does not make a bit of sense is a big job, thank God the Defender is willing to do it. The Defender works for free, unlike Pat Robertson who requires massive donations to help with his race horse breeding farm, and diamond mines in South Africa. God Bless the Defender for doing all this for nothing. I would like to see the Bismarck Tribune sponsor an ongoing column called the Defender. The Defender could answer puzzling Biblical questions everyday. It would be very much like Dear Abby, but the answers would be much better since they would come from God. "

To your all nuts wrote on Jun 19, 2007 1:52 PM:

" "Could it be a VACATION WRITE OFF for you Righteous Christians? " Good one, everyone wants to take a vacation to Africa right. Where do you come up with your logic? A christian helps someone in need and you complain they don't help the right person. Great arguement you look real intelligent. For those of you who don't believe in the bible just remember you are in the minority of the population. Most people do believe in what you call a fairy tale and compare to Santa Claus. "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 19, 2007 1:51 PM:

" Oh, and there are no missing links in the Bible? I dare say that science has taught us a lot more than the Bible has. Scientists do not know all the answers, but at least they are looking and have an open forum and peer reviews etc. They welcome tests of their theories. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 1:30 PM:

" To: Lady Hope- I am not being a bully, merely trying to bring out TRUTH and what matters. Please read other posts to you. I say again it DOES NOT matter what Darwin thought any more than what any other one of us think. We are talking about WHAT IS. Why don't you answer a real question? WHERE ARE ALL THOSE MISSING LINKS? We ALL can look at the SAME EVIDENCE and come to a 'scientific and plauseable explanation for WHAT IS. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 1:19 PM:

" To: Your all NUTS- Wait a minute please NUTS. "Dear God, please help me have the patience to deal with all these NUTS, in JESUS name, thank you, Amen."I don't have the time to list all the nation's Christian's have gone to to help feed, cloth, and bring the TRUTH of the GOSPEL too. But you are right, one of the nation's that need the most help is America. Because you nut's, who are bringing all this garbage into our system, by electing marble headed democrats and your ungodly teaching. The Christian's are culpable too because most are just letting this go on. Judgement BEGIN'S at the house of God.God is judgeing us right now, and removing his His blessing's from this great land.Yeah, I just called my travel agent this morning trying to book a trip to Africa so I could write it off. Hesaid, " Sorry, all booked up,for at least the next six months anyway." "

The Defenders view of History wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:57 PM:

" Dear Defender I would like some more enlightenment. You say it was not Christians burning people alive during the Spanish Inquisition. The Catholic Church sponsored it. Did they hire non Christians to do the burning? Please tell me where you found this information. As usual when facts get interjected you get confused, or see the need to tell a "Joke". So when the Defender gets backed into a corner with logic we divert to humor, and refuse to answer. No one could ask for a better show piece than the defender to demo the problems with fundamentalist. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:55 PM:

" To: Practical Skeptic-Same thing. I covered this in answer to; "Who moved us forward." Please READ former posts before rubbing some more "turtle wax" on that ol brain of your's.That post was on June 19 2007 11:03 a.m. "

Dear Defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:52 PM:

" Dear Defender did you ever read what Einstein said about God? It does not even remotely resemble the Defender's version of God. I dare say none of the "Christian Scientist" you mentioned had the wacky God ideas you do. Quote me something Einstein said that back up your fundy stuff. As usual, specifics always ruin the fun. "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:52 PM:

" to your all Nuts; Maybe it is because almost everyone in America has access to welfare, food stamps, homeless shelters, etc. Job opportunities are out there for those willing to work. Maybe some people fall through the cracks, but you name it, we have a program for it. Our donations and tax money pay for most of these. Now lets go into someplace like Zambia in Africa. According to a recent article in National Geographic, malaria has become so rampant, that thousands of children die every year from this one disease alone because most families are too poor to pay for the mosquito netting needed to fend off the pests. When was the last time you knew anyone that died of or even had malaria? Right now, pest control people in most of the cities in our state are checking for disease carrying mosquitos and spraying for them in order to keep you safe. All you have to do is stay inside or when you go out, spray with mosquito spray, which is easily found and cheaply purchased at any drug store, grocery store or variety store. These things are not easily available to many people in these less developed countries. We have so much in America that even our poorest people live better than most in some of these countries. Maybe that is why some Christians and others feel the need to donate their time and money to other countries, rather than the richest country in the world. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:33 PM:

" To:Mouth from the South-The "evolution theory" as presented in our schools DOES have EVERYTHING to do with the existence of God! They CANNOT exist side by side. If this THEORY of EVOLUTION is true, which it is NOT, then it disproves the Bible. Where do Christian's go if not to the God of the Bible? And if the Bible is true, which it IS, then that disproves the "theory of evolution."I say again, Satan is real, and this is one of the most diabolical plans he has come up with to lead people to Hell. WAKE UP Christian's and FIGHT this evil slime in your schools! "

Dear Defender please explain wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:30 PM:

" Dear Defender please explain why you have to pray to a loving God. If people are suffering in Africa from AIDS, starvation, and a host of other things why does God have to be asked to help them. If he were a loving God would he not do it without being asked. Mys son fell in a hole in our back yard, He was crying. I did not insist he pray to me, and tell my how great I was in order to get him out. Why is God so egotistical? I pray in the name of the Defender, God's representative on Earth for guidance. Amen "

The Defender is my Hero wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:26 PM:

" Somewhere a man in a caped suit sits by a computer waiting to defend God against Satan and his agents. Were is not for the defender we would be overwhelmed by logical people moving us forward to a better life. Were it not for the Defender we would probably be going forward with the evil national health care for everyone. Only the Defender has kept pray alive in schools, and on football fields. God Bless the Defender and I hope his battle to protect us from free thinking and Satan is a success. I have often been tempted to think for myself and us reason, but I turn to the Bible like the Defender suggest and my thoughts go blank. "

Take the defender to court wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:22 PM:

" If we could get the Old Defender in court and try his ideas it would be great. My six year old could spin his logic in circles. The reason politics has been brought into this is because it clearly demonstrates that when proof stares the defender in the eye, he cannot see it. We have the worst failed presidency in history. 78 percent of Americans now agree and can see it, but there will always be the 22 percent who could never admit they were wrong, or made a mistake. That 22 percent of fools can always swing an election. Do you see the relationship, and the threat to our freedom? "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:12 PM:

" Defender, you come across as a bully. "Possibilities" was claiming "Even Darwin later discounted his writings as being incorrect. " That is why I posted that he did not reject his own work. I also stated that evolution is not based on purely random chance because I was responding to those implying that there is no rhyme or reason to evolution. It is not based on just chance. And that most certainly is a valid point. It is a much more valid argument than quoting a book that claims to be the ultimate authority. Remember, the reason for the Anti-Christian posts is that this letter we are commenting on is attacking those of us that do not believe in the Bible, that is why we are on the defensive. You are just trying to perpetuate the attack, unlike some of the other Christian posters. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:45 AM:

" To: Lady Hope- We all KNOW there are universal laws that shape things! Christians are NOT denying those laws exist. Most of the infamous mass murdering tyrants of the past believed as Darwin's theory's suggested. Such as Lenin,Stalin,Hitler Pol Pot, Mauo. That we just came from some mush and the strongest mush rules.The exact same mentality of the pro-abortionist crowd of today. When history is written years from now, these abortionist's are going to be put in the SAME catagory as the above.WHERE ARE ALL THE MISSING LINKS??? Did Darwin put them all in his garage? "

Your all NUTS!!!! wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:37 AM:

" We don't see too many of you liberals going off to Africa to help feed these people. We sure see some Christians though. Because if you havent noticed Afica is not the only country in need. What about in America? Why do you Christians feel you need to fly to Africa to help when you CANT/DONT help out your own back door? Could it be a VACATION WRITE OFF for you Righteous Christians? "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:30 AM:

" To:Lady Hope- It DOES NOT matter if Darwin refuted his theory's or not. Why would it matter if anyone refuted what he'd said in the past, if we didn't agree with what he said in the first place. I cannot prove Darwin refuted his theory, and it really has no bearing here. We are talking about science and an AWESOME God. Darwin is just the name of the person who started all this NONSENSE. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:21 AM:

" To:Who stoked the fires- This gives another example of these people's distorted view of history. ALL the HATE has been from the other side of this. When it gets too ABSURD, I like to throw in a little humor to lighten things up.And it was the non-Christians throwing wood on the fires burning the Christians. WAIT, I have seen those large piles of wood behind all these CHURCH'S. Why don't you call the F.B.I. They would welcome this information. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:03 AM:

" To:Who moved us forward-We're moving back into the ABSURD again.I agree that you people do live in a myth.WHY do you SEPARATE God and SCIENCE? He DESIGNED this awesome system we have. Why would you separate people of science from God, if it was Him that MADE them? These AWESOME brains of ours that ENABLE these physicians and scientists etc, didn't develop from turtle wax. And if you come back no one designed this system it just evolved. That makes about as much sense as an explosion in a print shop created the dictionary. Advances?-Some CHRISTIAN scientists-Bacon-Kepler-Newton-Boyle-Faraday-Mendel-Kelvin-Einstein. We don't see too many of you liberals going off to Africa to help feed these people. We sure see some Christians though. MAN has caused HATE and WAR by not LISTENING to God. "

Practical Skeptic wrote on Jun 19, 2007 11:02 AM:

" To Defender - your posts don't only look 'funny sometimes', they reveal a chillingly delusional view of the world. Would also like to comment on what is an apparently appalling lack of understanding of what 'science' is, as revealed in many of the posts. So here it is. Science is a METHOD. Let me say that again; science is a METHOD of finding out how things work. It has no agenda. It is a self-correcting METHOD in which hypotheses are subjected to rigorous peer review, and false conclusions are weeded out. It is people employing the SCIENTIFIC METHOD that brought you all the improvements (including the computer you are typing your posts on) and advances that we enjoy in every aspect of our existence today. People (like defender) who delude themselves into believing they have some kind of special connection to the inventor of the universe like to single out 'science' as some kind of bogeyman. They are so insecure in their own belief system - thus the need to proselytize - and so delusional, that a METHOD that FINDS OUT appears as a threat. They don't want to FIND OUT - they are already certain that they have. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:36 AM:

" To: Will defender ever change?-Another easy one. YES, I would vote for Bush over ANY of these lying morons that the democrats are now running. The liberals and especially the liberal media has poissend peoples minds over this fine and decent man. There are a few things democrats should learn about the American people. They are not stupid enough to believe all your LIES. and they should try running some grown-ups for a change.Democrats call this Bush's war. WRONG, this is America's war and we BETTER win it. They also run around with every excuse as to why they voted for it. But, but mommy, George MADE me do it. I am so glad that we have a sensible MAN in the white house, instead of one of these lying, whining liberals. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:20 AM:

" To: Pondering- Thank you for the advice. My mouse does not scrll anymore. I should get another. And I don't see any arrows on that box. There has been issues with the Bismark Tribune and my computer these last weeks. I've called my server,Midco, but I'm still not fixed up.I'm already taking so much time with this I feel cutting and pasteing will just take more. Please allow that I can't check anything I've said after it disappears, and it will look funny sometimes. "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:10 AM:

" Why do we always have to bring personal politics into every post? Who cares whether Defender voted for Bush or not? Whether Bush is a Christian or not has nothing to do with the existence of God. Evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God. Evolution and God can exist side by side, each one assisting the other in the development of species. If God is all-powerful, he can certainly manipulate species into whatever form he wishes and on whatever timetable he wishes. The existence of one does not automatically prove the non-existence of the other. We can debate this question till the end of time, and we will, but I doubt we will ever positively know the answer. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 10:10 AM:

" To: Possibilities:- Yes I believe God's influence can be seen in picking Benedict. Thank God for that.But there is so much pressure building by the liberals to get one that can bring more "concentious " and bring the church "together." When liberals say concentious, they really mean, do it our way.Virtually the WHOLE media is liberal. Witness, 90% do not go to church. Also witness there ABSURD writing on some things. And ,yes there are liberals in your church too, as all other churches.Please give Ref. for "purgatory." The pope is a sinner how can he be infallible?"For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God;"Romans 3:23. "

possibilibities wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:42 AM:

" But the central question is still What causes these rules? Ok there are rules and organization, why? it doesn't just happen out of chaoas because it feels like it. Organization and rules dont just come about by themselves, something caused it. That is the part science likes to gloss over. "

Mouth from the South wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:41 AM:

" We will never positively know whether God exists or not until we are dead. Millions of people believe that he does exist and try to live their lives caring about others and trying to follow his example. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. As for blaming all the evils in the world on religion and specifically Christianity, that is unbelievable. Is it Christianity that causes people to steal from their neighbors, murder, or do drugs? I doubt it. Was it Christianity that caused Saddam Hussein to kill the ethnic groups in Iraq? I doubt it. Was it Christianity that bombed the World Trade Centers, killing thousands? Doubt that also. It might have been a so-called religious belief, but not Christianity. PEOPLE take the Bible and Koran, etc. and twist it to suit their own ends. As for political connections, most politicians, I would guess, be they Democrat or Republican attend Church on a regular basis. And if you don't believe in God, why go to Church? Statistics show that the majority of people here in the US believe in the existence of God or a higher power. Ranting and raving that he does exist, he doesn't exist isn't going to change anything. We cannot prove his existence or the lack thereof. "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:29 AM:

" People who suggest that evolutionists think everything evolved by random chance do not understand evolution. Evolutionists believe in universal laws that shape and form things and very gradual changes that allow that organism to survive long enough to produce offspring. Darwin started out Christian and later in life rejected Christianity and called himself agnostic or Deist. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:26 AM:

" To:-It happens-First, why do we even believe there is a God. All peoples of the earth come up with their version of God. WHY? BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY SEE. This is such an AWESOME and BEAUTIFUL and AMAZING system and we can see it.Psalms 19 expounds on this.The Bible has thousands of facts of peoples, events,places,etc.Please LIST the ones that have been disproven.There were 40 MEN that God chose to inspire and write scripture. Total of 66 books over thousands of years.Yet they all agree 100%. Lastly, BILLIONS of people have and now DO attest to the wonderful changes to their lives, brought about by accepting the Word of God ie;;The Bible.Seing itself is a miracle. "

Lady Hope wrote on Jun 19, 2007 9:22 AM:

" I want to clear something up here. Darwin never refuted his work on his death bed as the church likes to rumor. All of his children refuted the letter : "Lady Hope's account of my father's views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but have not seen any reply. My father's agnostic point of view is given in my Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I., pp. 304317. You are at liberty to publish the above statement. Indeed, I shall be glad if you will do so." "

possibilibites wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:52 AM:

" Defender you are wrong, no pope will ever allow abortion or anything that would be considered agains the morals of the church. Look at history! Yes there have been popes that have been bad people, but no matter what the media tells you there will never be a pope that will allow things such as abortion, gay marraige, or anything else deemed an article of faith or morals. You think it is coincidence that benedict is pope? Dont you think it is in fact possible that God placed him in power? Also have you ever heard the peope say anything that directly conflics with the bible? I haven't. Yes those that dont believe in God, you will have a field day with this, and no I don't have anything to prove anything to you. Sometimes people have to have faith in the unknown and unprovable. Of course you all should know something about that becuase much of science is still unknown and unprovable as much as you would like to think otherwise. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:33 AM:

" To:Dear Defender-Jun 18, 10:24 a.m. -Yeah we can all recall when Jerry Falwell used to come running out of church after a service with a baseball bat, clubing every one who didn't have a Bible opened.Yes, I would be teaching ONLY creationism in school. We try to "educate" our children while they are in school for 13 years. Why fill their heads with the "total NONSENSE" of evolution. It's easy to see why people believe evolution when they come out of these government propaganda factory's.The Bible DOES NOT say we should beat our children. Ref. please. It dosen't hurt these kids to swat them on the most padded area on their body's, their butt. I DO NOT believe in hitting them anywhere else.Some of these gang kids should have been SPANKED a few times when they were young and some of them wouldn't have joined gangs. "

possibilities wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:20 AM:

" Despite what many think, science doens't have an answer for everthing is. The fact of the matter is, some things can't be answered by the human mind. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 8:08 AM:

" To:Possibilities- In regards to catholics not having an "infallible pope." You said, "Catholic teaching is that the pope is only infallible when it comes to articles of faith and morals." And went on to talk about presidents and haircuts. This is what we are talking about, faith and morals. I don't care about haircuts. Why do you think liberals were so upset when Benedict got in? Because he is conservative. They can't wait to get one that will let them keep killing babies. And the way things are going in this world, that won't be too long. ONLY the Bible is infallible. Why? Because it is directly from GOD, not going through men to lead us into wrong thinking. That's where all these denomination's come from. Some of these denomination's are right on the money, such as the Baptists. No I am not a Baptist, I go to a non-denominational church. Also these craz "

Who stoked the fires? wrote on Jun 19, 2007 7:40 AM:

" In the good old days during the heat of the Spanish Inquisitions, someone had to throw wood on the fire when they burnt people alive over religious issues. I can just see the Old Defender tossing wood under some poor non-believer, doing the work of God. Once these people spin out of control, we are all in peril. "

Will the defender ever change? wrote on Jun 19, 2007 7:27 AM:

" The defender has now admitted he voted for Bush. His mind set will be revealed by this question. Defender, would you vote for Bush again? If the defender answers yes, you will see the hopelessness of trying to drive any new idea into his head. If the Defender says he would vote for Bush again, he will prove he is oblivious to the obvious. Oh Defender please reveal more of you inner wisdom so the rest of us may follow you to glory. "

Who moved us forward? wrote on Jun 19, 2007 7:11 AM:

" You can divide this blog into two camps, those willing to accept reality, and those who live in a world of myth, fear, and imaginary beings. I ask the defender who has brought the world the most. People in the real world have developed medicines, crops, and many other inventions that have reduced suffering. The religious deluded have often tried to make it difficult for them by making the acquisition of knowledge difficult. Religious people have caused strife, hate, and division. Tell us a major advance brought forward by religion that has stopped suffering. The world will be a better place when we all have an adult view of reality. "

Delusioinal wrote on Jun 19, 2007 7:00 AM:

" If nothing else, these comments show how easily people are deluded. In these post you have adults stuck in a dream world about a story created over two thousand years ago. Like children stuck on the Santa Clause myth, they will not give up hope that they can be good and get a present. This child like mindset leaves them open to manipulation. One need only look at the TV preachers that feed off them to see how easy it is. Helping these people is no different from helping gamblers, alcoholics, or any other person with social and mental problems. Just like all adiction problems there is a social cost to this problem. "

Pondering wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:32 AM:

" To Defender, when writing you can still scroll up and down past the visible area in the comments box with your up and down arrows. The cursor needs to move to the top before it starts showing the hidden text. Also you can write on your word processor and do a copy and past in the comments box and it will take it all. Naturally check your word count on your word processor prior to doing your copy & paste. "

**IT Happens** wrote on Jun 19, 2007 2:32 AM:

" Yep defender has that one right. NEVER try and interpret the bible, because the second you do you see it for what it really is, BULL! A book written by man that is supposed to be the words of god. Yet were told of how many passages and scriptures that have been left out? WHATTTTTTTTT? FACT!!!!!!!!!, A committee sat down and decided what would be put into the bible. This is the word of GOD, how in the world do you leave ANYTHING OUT? Oh ya thats right because even wayyy back then man was twisting these words to serve his purpose. There is no argueing with people like this. I would have thought most of you would have caught on by now, because the only answer you will ever get is "because god said so" Defenders god is INFALLIBLE and you cant change his mind about it one bit. I'll give props to ya defender for sticking to what you believe. Have a nice day and no hard feelings. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:59 AM:

" To: Defenders Rebuttal- Another easy one. Have you heard of the TRINITY? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They are the Three in one of the Godhead. God is the head Jesus is His only begotten Son who we TRY to follow His example, The Spirit is another person who communes with our spirit. Yet they are one. Do we understand fully how this can be.No but it sure does work, and all three are mentioned over and over again. Jesus continues speaking--" he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then,Shew us the Father? JOHN 14:9 But all three are mentioned throughout the Bible. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:25 AM:

" To:NYxND- YES. Ahh at last a simple one, in more ways than one. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:14 AM:

" To:who cares who voted for who- Thank you for the TRUTH. I couldn't have said it better. "

defender wrote on Jun 19, 2007 12:07 AM:

" To; Dear Defender- I can't believe it. Heres this sixth grader staying up past 10 again. "Where are his parents." No,a sixth grader is smarter than this. Well. than again these curriculums the government "dictates" our teachers teach, you never know. I will say this in all seriousness though- if you do happen to be an adult, IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR, ADMIT YOU ARE A SINNER AND REPENT OF THOSE SINS, AND TRULY FOLLOW CHRIST YOU WILL ANSWER FOR SUCH FOOLISH REMARKS. Please think it over. "

defender wrote on Jun 18, 2007 11:41 PM:

" To:possibilities-There is a rule for interpreting scripture, I can't think of it offhand. But basically it's this.What the Bible says, it says, don't try to put your own interpretation on it."And God called the light Day, and the and the darkness Night. And the evening and the morning was the first day."Genesis 1;5.But many more references to this are in this first chapter. Read the whole chapter and it will become clear to you how long He meant a day was. It's still the same today.He meant these days as days as we know them. There is one reference to day i wil explain on next page. Test for if you are interpreting verses correctly; Does it agree with other scripture? That is why it is so important to study the WHOLE Bible, so you know what it says. The but studying it is even better than reading it , you get so much more out of itof the very best is J. Vernon McGee's THRU THE BIBLE in 5 years. Its about half an hour a day. Thats J. VERNON MCGEE- THRU THE BIBLE just google it and get some times and stations in this area. "

Defender's Rebuttal? wrote on Jun 18, 2007 11:38 PM:

" To: defender wrote on Jun 18, 2007 9:18 PM . . . . You obviously either have NEVER read the Bible in its entirety or don't grasp the concept of the passages in the Bible. I Genesis 1: 26 i