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Shiloh pulls off a miracle

 
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Mar 09, 2007 - 04:05:00 CST
By LOU BABIARZ
Tribune Sports Editor
Shiloh Christian boys basketball coach Mike Dwyer said that instead of having his Skyhawks practice today, he may show them the movie "Miracle."

Or if he's looking for an inspirational underdog story, Dwyer could just pop in a tape of Thursday's Region 5 championship game.

After Dwyer's son, Tommy, banked in a 3-pointer at the buzzer to give Shiloh a 55-52 win over Center-Stanton at the University of Mary McDowell Activity Center, the Skyhawks were giddy about qualifying for the state Class B tournament.

"This is a miracle team," coach Dwyer said. "This is an absolute miracle."

If it seems strange to claim underdog status for a team that will be heading to state for the fourth time in five years, keep in mind five of Shiloh's top eight players are sophomores and the Skyhawks (14-11)went 9-10 during the regular season.

See Shiloh, Page 6D

"I think a lot of people didn't expect us to go this far,"said TommyDwyer, one of those sophomores.

In fact, it looked like the Skyhawks' surprising run would come to a halt against Center-Stanton (18-6).

Led by Region 5 player of the year Ross Aman, the Wildcats led most of the night and held what seemed like a comfortable lead (37-29) late in the third period.

Aman had 17 of his game-high 24 points by then. And no matter what the Skyhawks did to try to stop him - and they tried a lot of different things - the 6-2 forward would not be denied.

"We couldn't handle him,"coach Dwyer said. "We used a diamond-and-one for a little while. We doubled him in our man-to-man. We fronted him. We tried everything - and none of it worked."

But Aman picked up his third foul with exactly 2 minutes left in the third and went to the bench. By the end of the quarter the game was tied, courtesy of 3-pointers from Dwyer and Trevor Singer, plus two free throws from Singer.

Dwyer finished with 13 points and Singer 12.

Aman came back in to start the fourth quarter, but picked up his fourth foul just 55 seconds later. As soon as Aman exited Shiloh quickly scored four more, then added a bucket immediately after his return.

It all added up to a 14-0 run and 43-37 lead.

"He's a tremendous player,"C-S coach Scott Jung said. "Without him, we lose our rhythm."

But with him, the Wildcats quickly got it back. It also helped that 6-6 senior center Connor Wilkens stood tall in the fourth quarter.

Wilkens, who finished with nine points and 13 rebounds, scored six in the final period. With Center-Stanton clinging to a 50-49 lead and less than a minute to play, Wilkens blocked a Friesen shot. Then when Shae Brown missed the front end of a one-and-one, he grabbed that rebound, too.

It was the kind of play that called to mind Wilkens' cousin, Brandon - the former NAIA player of the year at Jamestown College and leader of Center's 1999 state tourney qualifier.

"Connor played like a champion all tournament," Jung said. "It was the best three games he played all year."

But Friesen answered with a 3-pointer, giving Shiloh a 52-50 lead with 26.1 seconds left. The senior made up for a 2-for-13 start by hitting four of six shots in the final period and finishing with 14 points.

The Wildcats came down and naturally got the ball to Aman, who bulled his way to a a layup with 16.0 seconds left, tying the game.

Shiloh nearly turned the ball over, but got a timeout with 5.0 seconds left, setting up Tommy Dwyer's game-winner.

"I was supposed to give it back to Tanner, but he was covered,"he said. "But I had an open shot, and I took it."

And made the shot of a lifetime.

"I asked them to be mature beyond their years," coach Dwyer said. "They certainly did that."

Center-Stanton 16 23 37 52

Shiloh Christian 11 19 37 55

C-S (52): Kelan Brown 2-11 0-2 6, Aaron Reinke 1-9 0-0 3, Ross Aman 10-18 4-7 24, Shae Brown 4-11 1-5 9, Connor Wilkens 4-8 1-2 9, Garrett Bennett 0-0 0-0 0, Dan Staigle 0-2 1-4 1. Totals 21-59 7-20 52.

SHILOH (55): R.J. Miller 1-4 1-3 3, Tommy Dwyer 5-13 0-0 13, Keenan Hauff 0-1 0-0 0, Brady Bohl 3-7 0-0 7, Tanner Friesen 6-19 1-2 14, Jared Miller 2-4 0-0 4, Trevor Singer 4-7 3-4 12, Jordan Huwe 1-4 0-0 2. Totals 22-59 5-9 55.

3-pointers: C-S 3 (Brown 2, Reinke 1), Shiloh 6 (Dwyer 3, Bohl 1, Friesen 1, Singer 1). Rebounds: C-S 47 (Wilkens 13), Shiloh 39 (Friesen 13). Fouls: C-S 13, Shiloh 19. Fouled out: Singer. Assists: C-S 10 (Brown 5), Shiloh 9 (Dwyer 5). Turnovers: C-S 9, Shiloh 6. Blocked shots: C-S 2 (Wilkens 2), Shiloh 1 (Singer 1). Steals: C-S 4 (Brown 2), Shiloh none.

Records: C-S 18-6. Shiloh 14-11.

Dakota Oyate 69, Standing Rock 66

Kolt Hischase had 23 points and 14 rebounds as Dakota Oyate held off Standing Rock's late comeback in an entertaining third-place game.

The Warriors trailed 40-31 when Dorian Redfish sparked a 15-2 run, putting Standing Rock in front. But Hischase helped Dakota Oyate rattle off 11 unanswered bridging the third and fourth quarters to restore the lead.

The Eagles were up 61-51 with four minutes to play, but the Warriors nearly erased that deficit, cutting it to 67-66 before a pair of free throws by Christian Iron Shield. Cody Silbernagel's 3-pointer at the buzzer just missed sending the game into overtime.

Dorian Redfish had 21 points and eight rebounds for Standing Rock, while Silbernagel pitched in with 17 points, 11 rebounds and six assists. Derrick Iron Shield scored 14 for the Eagles.

Dakota Oyate 18 33 53 69

Standing Rock 13 28 48 66

DAKOTA OYATE (69): Loren Uses Arrow 0-3 2-2 2, Robert Shell Track 1-5 0-0 2, Christian Iron Shield 3-6 2-2 9, Maurice Stretches 1-1 0-0 2, Robin Iron Shield 3-8 0-0 6, Kendall Eagle 0-0 0-0 0, Victor Kelly 1-5 1-2 3, Derrick Iron Shield 5-18 3-4 14, Kolt Hischase 11-17 0-0 23, Nikeya American Horse 4-8 0-0 8. Totals 29-71 8-10 69.

STANDING ROCK (66): Kyle Claymore 7-15 2-2 17, Seth Ramsey 0-0 0-0 0, Tyson Austin 2-8 2-2 6, Austin Hodgkiss 0-0 0-0 0, Tracy Irving 0-2 0-0 0, Evan Thompson 2-4 0-0 4, Sage Claymore 0-0 0-0 0, Dorian Redfish 8-21 4-9 21, Christian BrownOtter 0-1 0-0 0, Cody Silbernagel 6-15 4-6 17, Cheyenne Weddell 0-1 1-2 1. Totals 25-67 13-21 66.

3-pointers: DO 3 (C. Iron Shield 1, D. Iron Shield 1, Hischase 1), SR 3 (Claymore 1, Redfish 1, Silbernagel 1). Rebounds: DO 43 (Hischase 14), SR 47 (Silbernagel 11). Fouls: DO 18, SR 11. Assists: DO 9 (Uses Arrow 3), SR 11 (Silbernagel 6). Turnovers: DO 16, SR 19. Blocked shots: DO 1 (D. Iron Shield 1), SR 1 (Hodgkiss 1). Steals: DO 10 (D. Iron Shield 3), SR 12 (Claymore 4).

Records: DO 16-5, SR 14-9.

Region 5 Awards

Senior athlete of the year: Ross Aman, Center-Stanton.

Coach of the year: Michael Sorlie, Dakota Oyate.

Athletic director of the year: Brent Lauf, New Salem.

All-tournament

Center-Stanton - Ross Aman, Connor Wilkens. Dakota Oyate - Christian Iron Shield, Kolt Hischase. Shiloh - Trevor Singer, Tanner Friesen. Standing Rock - Dorian Redfish, Adam Kuntz. Turtle Lake-Mercer - Cameron Malzer.
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Shiloh pulls off a miracle
Comments

to still laughing wrote on Mar 21, 2007 7:57 PM:

" You are ridiculous. I watched the same games. I might not have agreed with all the calls but as a whole the games were called fairly well. State tournement refs are voted on so that the best ones call the tournement. Fair to say they are the best boys refs in the state. Don't use race as an excuse either. Not this year when the whole state was cheering for Parshall and Four Winds because of the quality of the players and their brand of basketball. No sir. Not this year. And while I am at it. What's up with your complaints against Shiloh? They are good kids with an excellent coaching staff. Sure they are in the news a lot. But that is because of the strength of thier program and the quality of education available at their school. "

To over it wrote on Mar 21, 2007 6:14 PM:

" Obviously you read it. So you and others still find it interesting. Besides, people never get enough of Class B. To the other guy. What in the world do you think the refs did to the native american kids? I watched every game also. There were some good calls-there were some not so good. I bet if you and I debated you would think the ones I thought good were bad and vice versa. My point being that no two people agree about the refs...no matter if they are white, black, asian or native american. I thought Four Winds and Parshall did really well. What's to complain about? "

STILL LAUGHING wrote on Mar 21, 2007 4:15 PM:

" I have read all of your comments and am laughing...I watched the class B tournaments, all the games. After what the referees did to those Native American kids you all have the nerve to complain....get real! I watch these games every year and it don't get any better for the Native Americans, like in the past they are STILL getting cheated...Shilo claims to be a christian school, they are the ones that make me laugh the most constantly complaining or in the news for some reason.....Shame on all of you....Proud of you PARSHALL!! "

Over it wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:54 AM:

" Are people still seriously debating over this?! It's high school basketball!! Don't you have more important things going on in your lives like actually watching your children grow? "

to Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 11:30 PM:

" Thanks for taking the time to clarify your point. Is it right that kids "have" to work year round to play high schools sports? Well, I don't know if fair is the right way to look at it. I think it is just a fact of life that the level of competition out there within a school to make a team is making it tougher and tougher all the time. But, as an experienced parent, I think that there is a happy medium that can be reached so that a player can have a life outside of sports also. We just have to realize that the kid next door may beat him/her out of a starting position because they worked a little harder, a little longer. As for what do you say to a parent who has a child with a stress fracture from over training? I would tell them to be a parent! I say this as the parent of two excellent HS athletes in this state. Parents have to be parents and make decisions that might not be the ones a coach wants to hear. I had a coach push & push my son to play on a weak ankle. It wasn't until I put my foot down & stood up as a parent to advocate for what was best in the long-term did I get him to back off. My son recovered quicker and is now stronger than ever. Parents have to be parents! Plain & simple. If your friends don't think its right that their daughter is out playing traveling team games in 6th grade than pull her or compromise & only let her play half as many. But recognize that they might get passed up. Every action has a reaction & as parents we have to help our kids deal with it. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:05 PM:

" Thank you Class B Thoughts for answering my question. I think it helps put into perspective some of the arguements about enrollment. "

ClassBThoughts wrote on Mar 20, 2007 8:19 PM:

" To the person who asked on how the enrollments work. For the Class A/B cutoff, the number is 325 students in grades 9-12. Here are the 9-12 enrollments for the teams in the most recent State Class B tournament, as taken off of the program: Four Winds - 130; Trinity - 173; Barnes Co North - 94; Minot Ryan - 179; North Border - 160; Shiloh - 97; Hankinson - 92; and Parshall - 72. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 7:28 PM:

" To the person who responed on March 20th at 6:37 pm. Where exactly did I say Class A kids don't have jobs? Just curious!! And it does sadden me. I have several friends who live in Bismarck and their kids are on traveling teams year round so in their own words, they have a chance to play on a team. When do these kids get a chance to be a normal kid. Once friend has a 7th grade daughter who has a stress fracture in her foot from spending too much time practicing. Another had her nose broken on a sixth grade team. How is this normal? And how can you generalize about kids working full time on the family farm? Do you live on a farm? Have you spent time on my farm? Yes, my kids have responsibilites and chores, but they also are allowed to play sports, ride their bikes and have friends. They also have cattle of their own and are saving money for college. But you totally missed my point. My point to those saying the kids just need to work harder and play on these traveling teams was to think about the fact that not all kids have the resources or time due to family constraints. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 7:11 PM:

" To sort of confused, my point was to remind those in the previous comments that some kids can't play sports all year round. Some suggested that the small town kids should just work harder, be on traveling teams and go to camps so they will be better. My comments were to simply make people realize it isn't always that simple when you live 100 miles from Bismarck and 70 miles from Dickinson. When you come from a town of 300 people you do the best you can with what you are given and with the facilities you have. I don't know the answer for whether the private schools should be class A or not. It's a tough debate with pros and cons both ways. Something I do wonder about is how the entire enrollment guidelines work for determining class A and Class B. Do they look at the entire school enrollment K-12 or just high school enrollment 7-12? Just curious, people in previous comments keep talking about this and I'm not exactly sure what the rules are. Anyone know how it works? "

To "Something to Ponder" wrote on Mar 20, 2007 6:37 PM:

" You make it sounds like Class A kids don't have jobs, and therefore have more time to practice etc. I am sure you cannot possibly mean that, right? You also say "It saddens me to think high school sports has became such a full time job for kids." Yeah, well, it saddens me to think that kids have to have real full time jobs on their parents' farms instead of being allowed to play sports and act like normal kids with normal childhoods. Get an extra hired hand already. "

sort of confused to something to ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 5:26 PM:

" What is your point? Kids in small schools might come from a rural family and they play three sports. You are right. They might not have a whole lot of time or money or energy to participate in summer camps or traveling teams. You are right again. What also is right is that they have the opportunity to do those things and work hard to be as good in a sport as they possible can. What they do with that opportunity is up to them. There are some who think that since it is easier for private Class B teams in Class A towns to go to the gym or be in a summer league in that big town that they should automatically be put into Class A. No matter what the enrollment of their school. Shiloh is under 300. Our Reedemers in Minot even small (I think). I am not sure about Ryan or Trinity in Dickinson or Williston or Oak Grove. To make them Class A would be a travesty. Kids in larger towns have responsibilities also and not all are from rich families as some people think in regards to private school kids. Kids, big or small, make a choice about how hard they work and where they focus their energy. As for a private school not taking a student back. It depends on the reason they were given. The private schools don't get government support for all the programs that a public schoold does. So they might not have the resources a student needs if they have learning problems or have special needs. I have heard many a parent say that they wis they could send their child to private school but the private school can't meet their needs. The private school I am familiar with works hard for the student but at some point has to tell a few parents that they would be better off in public school where all the services are available for free. Some students don't necessarily want to be in a Christian school. Thier behavior might lead to a recommendation to go somewhere else also. Remember, it is a private school. It is not an entitlement to be there as it is in a public school. Without knowing the real reason given to the family mentioned from near Dickenson it would be impossible to do anything else but guess. I am willing to bet good money that the reason was not at all related to sports. "

Sports Fan wrote on Mar 20, 2007 4:37 PM:

" It is a basketball GAME. This is not life and death. People, let's get perspective here. You won, you lost, now move on. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:59 AM:

" To ClassBmomandsportsfan, it is great that you have all the time in the world and resources to take your kids all over the state for Basketball. And your are ride hard work does pay off, but keep in mind not all parents have the time or resources to do this. If you look at an average small town community, some of the school populations come from rural homes. These kids have other responsibilities during the summer which include farm work and ranch work. These kids put as much time into sports as they can, but they do work hard at it and at other responsibilities life gives them. As time allows they may go to a camp or two in the summer but it is unrealistic to think that every family has the resources or the time to travel all over the state in the summer for basketball. It saddens me to think high school sports has became such a full time job for kids. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:24 AM:

" To Class B for life, I am curious if you played other sports or just BB. I too grew up in a class B town. I played BB in the fall, was a cheerleader in the winter for boys BB and ran track in the spring. I then had my horse and some rodeo's in the summer. My nephew currently is at a class B town also. He plays football in the fall, BB in the winter and will start track soon. He then plays some BB in the summer and also finds time to fish. He also helps my father on the farm putting up hay. In the small town I live in now, there is open gym once a week and most of the kids showing up for that are grades 5th through 8th. I think the idea of small town kids doing nothing but drinking is a stereo type. There are kids in every town, big or small, who choose to drink. In the small town I grew up in there were a handful who chose to drink, but there were more of us who found other things to keep us busy, like ride bike, play basketball, play softball, play tennis, ride horse, fish, go to the lake etc. When I talked about Class A kids in my previous comment, I was not generalizing about all kids, just those who choose to be in sports. I have a lot of friends in the Bismarck area who say they feel they have to have their kids on traveling team at fifth grade in order for them to have a chance to play in the big schools. I do not know if this is true first hand, but this is what they tell me. "

ClassBmomandsportsfan wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:05 AM:

" I am saddend and somewhat confused by all the comments that this artical hasbrought out. I cant believe this is still posted on here, regionals have been over for 2 weeks and state is done. No not everbodys team got into state and im sure their were plenty upset teams and fans. Our team never made it they were upset in the districts and regionals and had high hopes of making it to state but thats BB and thats what happens at tournament time. My twin daughters are 15 and play BB our girls program was never strong at our school until 4 years ago when these girls were in grade school an excellent coach stepped up parents got involved, they worked their buts off. They formed a traveling team, played in tornaments all over the state (Fargo,Bismarck,Valley city, Mandan, Rugby) you name it we were there they took 1st in almost very one for 3 years they even played against some of this years class A state particapants and won. They do open gym all summer and play on league, and several attend Mr.Amundsons camp. Thats hard work and dedication. These girls have been in 2 of the state B tourneys in 4 years. So it really doesnt matter where your frombe it a class B school in a class A town or a private school. Bottom line is "HARD WORK PAYS OFF" You get out of it exactly what you put int it... "

ClassBThoughts wrote on Mar 20, 2007 8:36 AM:

" To I Agree: That wasn't so hard was it? Now, to carry that situation further, if Dickinson Trinity is doing that on an athletic basis, it is pertinent to this discussion. If they removed that child from school because he/she was a discipline problem, trouble maker, etc., then it is another issue. You've cited one instance where Dickinson Trinity selectively denied a student access. If it is a pattern and you can tie it to athletic conditions, you've got a case. Until then it really doesn't carry weight and it isn't relevant to this discussion. "

Class B for life wrote on Mar 20, 2007 8:03 AM:

" When I lived in a Class B town, all I did was play basketball, because there was nothing else to do. I think the argument about Class A kids living and breathing basketball rings hollow. They have so many other things to keep them occupied in a big town. If anything, Class B kids are the ones who are the gym rats because if they aren't, they're doing the one other thing popular in rural areas around here: drinking. "

Not everything is sports wrote on Mar 20, 2007 7:42 AM:

" I recently read the Dickinson Press and I noticed that there was a recent science fair in southwest ND. A good majority of the winners were from Trinity HS, so not everything is sports there. They have a very strong academic program as well, which was evident at this science fair. Part of the beauty of going to a small school system is the individual attention that the students receive. Many of them thrive in those conditions. They do not "recruit" athletes, but many parents choose what is best for their children and sometimes that is a smaller system with more visibility. It is very difficult to keep a private school open and thriving and tuition costs and fundraisers are the way it is done. It can be time consuming and sometimes exhausting for the students, parents and the administration to keep things afloat. "

Something to Ponder wrote on Mar 19, 2007 7:17 PM:

" I have read all the comments and have a thought for those who say the only reason the schools in Bismarck, Mandan etc are better than the smaller schools is because they live and breathe basketball. The also say they spend summers and off season in travelling teams. Keep in mind that in smaller communities, girls often play Volleyball, head right to Basketball and then run track. Some of these girls or boys also come from agricultural families and spend their free time helping on the family farm or ranch. So to those of you who say to the smaller class B schools to play more basketball and you'll get better, keep in mind, there is more to life than Basketball or sports. There is teaching your kids life lessons as to how to feed the people in this world. "

I Agree wrote on Mar 19, 2007 7:10 PM:

" To ClassBThoughts, simply put can a public school pick and choose who they will allow to attend their school. I personnally know of a good family from the outlying Dickinson area whose son was not renewed to Trinity after one year. They were told he was not a good enough student. This family sent their son there wanting him to have a better education and to be in a Christian environment. "

Dad wrote on Mar 19, 2007 5:44 PM:

" I read the Sports page article written by Steve Thomas. Hats off to him and his commentary. We need to put an end to this constant whining about recruiting. I don't think people have half a clue in regards to the personal damage they cause with thier accusations. Especially when the reputations of good people and young men and women are at stake. Thanks (steve) for the wake-up call this morning. I hope more than a few read it along with their morning cup of joe. "

In support of Fan wrote on Mar 19, 2007 3:24 PM:

" I totally agree with what you wrote. what is wrong with some one moving in to Bismarck/Mandan and wanting a Christian education for their kids?? The Bearstail family also. I agree with what you said. They have made a wonderful testimony and he has done a great job as a coach there. In fact, I have heard he is a much sought after coach where ever he goes. People complaining about Shiloh coaches being in Tioga would also be surprised to know that the head coach (Dwyer) has a farm in Alexander. His boys have played Legion Base Ball there every summer. They used to go to Tioga to play ball there in the summers until Tioga's program went belly up. Was he ever in Tioga? Probably. His family was there to watch ball games & he may have gone with. So, enough about Bigpoppa and his inside scoop on the coaches being in that town to recruit that young man. People really have to be scrapping the bottom of the barrel if they are dragging up a situation that is 5 years old. Besides, that poor young man and Shiloh were investigate not once but 3 times and found to have followed the HS Athletic Association rules. To a T. If he or they had been guilty the boy (and that is what he was) would not have been able to play and Shiloh would have had to forfeit all the games he played in. So enough. Leave those fine coaches and that young man alone. While you are at it... leave the Bearstail family alone too. They are all good people. "

ClassBThoughts wrote on Mar 19, 2007 3:20 PM:

" To I Agree: In what way do the private schools in ND not have to follow the same rules and guidelines as public schools? Does it affect athletics? That statement has been made before in this blog, and a reasonable explanation has not come forward. Is there a special section in the NDHSAA bylaws for private schools? Don't make a statement like that and not back it up without facts. "

Fan wrote on Mar 19, 2007 2:28 PM:

" To: Get a Clue, I don't know who the Bigglesworths are, but I can say something about the Bearstails you may not know. Mr. Bearstail is the athletic director out at United Tribes. When he got that job, his kids started school at Shiloh. I have heard Mr. Bearstail's personal testimony about his family's relationship with Jesus Christ. Mr. Bearstail is also the girls basketball coach at Shiloh, and is a very humble, Christian man. Is there something wrong with a Christian family enrolling their children in Shiloh? And for whoever suggested that a Bismarck private school coach was seen recruiting in Tioga.....did you know the assisant (Miller) grew up in Tioga, and maybe he was in town visiting? "

Unbelievable wrote on Mar 19, 2007 1:57 PM:

" I have just read every single post and I find some amusing and some ridiculous. I grew up in a small town, but I have lived in Bismarck for many, many years. For the most part, once B, always B. I have watched girls/boys bb for many years at both the A and B level and some of the games are good and some aren't as good. The same goes for this years state boys tourney. I don't like all the bashing about "private" schools because most of you have NO clue. Parents chose private education because the school system is smaller and the students have an identy there. They are not lost in the crowd. They can find more success in that kind of environment and I'm not just talking sports here. Greg Grinsteiner (Trinity) is probably one of the best coaches in this time frame and as a result his teams are successful. Success breeds success. As for the regional games being held on Trinity's homecourt, there are few facilities large enough to accomodate all the fans. District 14 had 5 teams rated in the state and the fact that Trinity won was due to the intense competition at nearly every game during the season. On any given night, any team could win. There were 5 teams in that district that could have done well at state. Grinsteiner coaches well disciplined teams and his style is not to run and gun, so what. It works for him. Another old school coach that was able to make good things happen was Butterfield for Mott-Regent. He squeezed every ounce out of his boys this year. I attend the state boys tournament when it is in Bismarck and I did find it disturbing that of approximately 10,000 people in attendance Sat. night, about 8000 of them were cheering against Trinity. They were NOT cheering for Parshall, they were just cheering against Trinity. Trinity is in a rebuilding year this year and due to GOOD coaching and hard work by the kids they were able to bring home runnerup titles in football and in basketball. Hard work and dedication is the key. One final note, I am a fan of all sports and I do not like all this negativity. The kids work very hard and deserve recognition and honor for their hard work. "

Get a clue wrote on Mar 19, 2007 11:54 AM:

" To Mr. and Mrs. Bigglesworth, what is your answer to the Bears Tails?? "

I Agree wrote on Mar 19, 2007 11:47 AM:

" WD2's comments on 3/09/07 say it best. I agree 100%. NDHSAA should be for the public schools. Those who must follow the same rules and guidelines. Private schools don't have to follow these same rules and guidelines. I have nothing against the private schools. I would just like to see the small town public schools have a fair chance. "

Cranky wrote on Mar 19, 2007 10:45 AM:

" sick of it, te discussion will continue d/t the fact that the HS Activity Association is going to be discussing adding a 3rd class. This will dilute the numbers to the point that the championship will mean nothing. There remain so many questions as I raised in an earlier comment. Unfortunately, the discussion will continue on. "

Curious wrote on Mar 18, 2007 10:48 PM:

" I'm not a regular reader of the comments, but check it only often enough to wonder: bigpoppakdog is there any subject you're not an expert on? "

sick of this wrote on Mar 18, 2007 6:05 PM:

" People,if you dont already know this, the BB season ended last night......so lets end this also "

To Dave wrote on Mar 18, 2007 5:46 PM:

" By "Class B style" do you mean 45 second posessions because there is no shot clock? Yeah, that's really cool to watch. Almost as cool as watching "run and gun" basketball, which I translate as "NO DEFENSE." If you want to watch that, check out the And 1 tour or maybe the NBA All-Star game. "

BBB fan wrote on Mar 18, 2007 5:43 PM:

" I have a family connection to a coach at Shiloh, and I can say without question that recruiting isn't part of any basketball program there. Of course, any coach is going to be welcoming to a student who comes to play at their school, whether that student is from a small town, large town, or a Class A school; but these coaches do not go out to personally invite students to play for them at any kind of reward. It is completely the choice of the student's family. The real tragedy is the fact that the small towns' populations are declining. If this could be stopped somehow it would really help keep the class B spirit alive -- No one likes to see the same teams winning year after year, whether it be May-Port-C-G, Dickinson Trinity, or Shiloh, or anyone! It would be a lot more fun to see a lot of these small towns coming up with great teams as well -- which many of them do anyway. CONGRATS to Parshall on a great win last night -- that is exactly what we like to see in Class B basketball! And for the record Parshall has 70-some kids in their high school, so yes, they are about 20 students smaller than Shiloh, which has 96 or so students. And about the capping enrollment myth, it would never happen, because these private schools struggle financially enough as it is since they don't get help from the government! "

Class B wrote on Mar 17, 2007 10:36 PM:

" Parshall probably has more kids enrolled than Shiloh. Good Job Parshall. You all did a great job! "

Then why is it wrote on Mar 17, 2007 10:11 PM:

" every other school in Bismarck is Class A! Glad to see that a true class B school got the trophy this year! "

oh for stupid wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:11 PM:

" Shiloh doesn't cap their enrollment. Check it out. They are so far from the school size limits to move to Class A that it makes your comment totally stupid. "

What a joke wrote on Mar 17, 2007 6:59 PM:

" Shiloh and Dickinson Trinity have no business being in the class B. These schools intentionally keep their enrollment low so they can compete in the class B. If they were so good and talented, why don't they just move up to Class A where they belong! "

uff-da wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:03 PM:

" The b.b. season ends tonight. It is time to shut this down. It look like a lot of people won't have to wear green on St. Patricks day because they are green with envy!! "

Dave wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:07 PM:

" At least Shilon plays Class B style basketball. Did anyone catch the Ryan-Trinity yawner last night? Teams like that are killing Class B basketball. Last years championship game is another good example. The ending was exciting but the rest of the game was very boring. I miss the days of classic, run-and-gun Class B ball. The score at halftime should be 46-35. That shouldn't be a final score in Class B. "

little town wrote on Mar 16, 2007 8:35 PM:

" Cranky, I don't know if you have ever lived in a small town. I did and I saw first hand the hard work and dedication that students/athletes/parents put into improving. We still didn't have a weight room, acceleration and it was an hour drive to play summer league. Most of us played baseball in the summer, FB in the fall, BB in the winter and ran track in the spring. Plus we all worked either on our family farm or for someone whose kids had grown-up. We were alright in sports and when we did do well our parents made financial sacrifices to attend games. The rural economy isn't strong enough to support everything. "

Cranky wrote on Mar 16, 2007 7:37 PM:

" Yes. Shiloh has great coaches and they should be applauded. They are great men who do a better than great job with the young people at Shiloh. They are both well respected. Just so you know. My kids went to a small Class B school well outside of Bismarck. I have lived through some awful situations because of small minds and HS athletics. And my kids were good athletes, played regularly in three sports per year so that is not why I am disgruntled about SOME small, rural schools. Not all. It is also why I donate a great deal to HS sports teams now that I live in the Bismarck area. Its why I have little tolerance for all this mud slinging about Shiloh, Mandan, In-town and out-of-town teams. "

Cranky for Bigpoppa wrote on Mar 16, 2007 7:26 PM:

" I didn't write that the refs were from NS. I said that there are girls teams that always feel that refs favor NS when games are played in NS. Intending to show that where ever you go people think the refs favor some team or another. Refs come from all over. You will never get people to agree or not agree on ref issues. I happen to think that this region has excellent refs. Better than what I "hear about" but have not seen myself in other regions. After helping with many off season tournements etc in this area I have talked to many. Many donate their time and do an excellent job. As for who I cheer for. I love Class B BB. I happen to go and watch many teams. I just enjoy HS sports. Lately, the Underwood Comets catch my attention because friends kids are on the teams. It is from them last that I heard the complaints about the NS refs. Did I agree. Actually no. As for Shiloh. I know many people from there and watch many of their athletic teams in all sports. They do (or did)have a tuition assitance program that is (or was) based on need. Due to finances at the school it was tightened up drastically a few years ago and that is when their enrolled numbers took a dive. So, has an athlete or two maybe benefited from the program somewhere through the years? I don't know but probably. It is my understanding that parents apply through a lengthy paperwork process and the tuition assistance is awarded by an out-of-state organization. Individuals at the school aren't even aware of who recieves and who doesn't. Have I ever applied-No. So, I might not have all the facts straight. Bigpoppa.. did you know that the assistant boys coach from Shiloh is orignally from Tioga and that he went to HS school there? He probably has been in a local resteraunt a time or two. There can't be more than one or two. You wrote originally that the coach was in the high school cafeteria implying that he was there to recruit the tall athlete there. You know full well that recruiting is against HS rules. You easily referenced that situation on two occasions and inferred that something happened there that shouldn't. One needs to be careful what ill will you resurrect and that you are factual. "

waste of time wrote on Mar 16, 2007 7:20 PM:

" Seriously, it's just basketball! Everyone just needs to settle down and get on with their life. There's much more important things in life, than arguing over the game of basketball. "

northern nd wrote on Mar 16, 2007 5:50 PM:

" Grow up people! Why are you so bitter. Congratulations to the Shiloh team. I know both their coach and their assistant coach and for all of you bitter people and for your information THEY VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME with these young men! Congratulate them! "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 16, 2007 5:37 PM:

" The refs are not from new salem..they are from bismarck(usually)Plus they won the region played at bismarck/mandan never at new salem...so you want to get attacked..you opened the flood gates..prove to me from your sources what you said..otherwise shut up....remember those harsh words you had for me??....could I prove a bismarck coach was in a restaurant at Tioga? Alot easier than you could prove a ref favors new salem girls basketball I guarantee that....Shiloh girls wouldn't have even been contenders if THREE of their starters hadn't transferred in from other class b schools!!!! Or dare I say recruited???? "

smalltown wrote on Mar 16, 2007 4:18 PM:

" To Cranky~ I'm thinking you possibly might be a Shiloh parent, do you think it is possible that some student/athletes get compensated in some way,shape or form for the $5,000 tuition? Now I am not saying the school comes right out & pays for an athletes tuition, but do you think/feel the school does cut certain athletes/students a deal to attend Shiloh? "

Cranky wrote on Mar 16, 2007 3:16 PM:

" Opportunity Theory. $5,000 per year tuition levels the field. You can see that few people in Bismarck/Mandan make the committment to provide a Christian education for their kids. Its not like the private schools have the entire population of the large town they are in to draw from. Shiloh has less than 300 kids in their entire school. Almost the entire squad has been at that school their entire school history. One young man moved there in middle school when his parents moved into Bismarck from NW ND. They work very hard together and they have great coaches. Into what divison would you put them? Class A? Is that fair? ALL schools/parents have the ability to offer the same opportunity to play year round basketball, lift weights, have gym time, go to tournements, offer tournements, as the larger cities. They just need to show more effort.Do you tell the kids at Shiloh or at any other private school in a big town that they will now be punished because they live in a big town and only have to drive across town to get to the Y?? Small towns can open their gyms too. What about the kids in towns close by the big town who can drive in and have the same opportunities? Kids drive into a big town for a movie and pizza but we shouldn't expect them to make any effort to play in a summer league or go to the Y? What do you do with co-op towns like MayPort/CG? Do you put them into Class A because they just keep adding schools to their co-op so that they can put together a good team every year? Steele coops with a different town every year it seems for some of their sports. Do you put them into Class A? They live close to Bismarck and are in all the same leagues and tournements as the Shiloh kids. What do you do with open enrollment kids who can bounce from one school to the next once they get school board approval? Do you put that team into Class A because they draw from a larger area? I still say that all schools and the parents can make gym time available and attend year round camps and tournements IF THEY WANT TO. Most just don't want to be bothered. Some parents have gotten lazy and so have some of the kids. They want it handed to them on a platter and life just doesn't work that way. It takes effort and hard work. School enrollment remains the only fair way to classify schools. As for refs. I know what you are saying about Dickinson refs. But I hear the same about girls games played in New Salem-that their refs always favor NS. The same complaints are voiced everywhere and are not isolated to the Titans. And yes, it is frustrating. Be you from an in-town Class B town or out-of-town. "

Agree With Region V Fan wrote on Mar 16, 2007 12:33 PM:

" You hit the nail on the head Region V Fan. Dickinson Trinity plays Regionals on their home court with 3 refs FROM DICKINSON. How the hell does that happen? I used to officiate out of the Dickinson association, but have since moved to another association. All those Dickinson Association refs talk about is the Trinity Titans. They are the same refs that step on the floor to be an unbiased official. C'mon, NDHSAA needs to wake up and smell the coffee. In the Region 7 championship game this year, free throws were about 26-3 in favor of the Titans. ALL 3 REFS IN THAT GAME ARE FROM DICKINSON. I think you can put two and two together and hopefully get four. "

small town wrote on Mar 16, 2007 11:18 AM:

" People need to realistic. Recruiting or not how can you compare? I know it is NOT based off population, but people need to look at the big picture! Take a town such as Wilton, population 900. Then you take the city of Bismarck, population 70,000, you cannot even say that it is fair. Granted the kids/parents choose were to attend school, & I am not taking anything away from the boys from Shiloh, b/c them guys down right work there tails off, but the point being is that there is far more advantage to stack a team up with a school located in a city of 70,000 residents than a town with 900 residents. To me it just isn't a level playing feild. "

Opportunity Theory wrote on Mar 16, 2007 5:17 AM:

" TO Active Parent: In my Class B school we had open gym, pickup games, weight training, and dedicated players and parents. We drove 140 miles round trip to play summer league. It was worth it as we made it to the State B several times. B'ers in small towns can make just as many opportunities for themselves as can the kids in Class A towns. Over the course of time, I'll still content that a B School in a Class A town has an advantage because of the increased opportunities afforded to those kids just because of proximity. "

Out of state wrote on Mar 15, 2007 10:52 PM:

" Whole lot of talking about some Shiloh sophmores from sophomoric people. It's a game people played by very young BOYS. Lighten up "

Used to B wrote on Mar 15, 2007 10:06 PM:

" Shiloh is the kind of story most class B fans love, a bunch of young kids coming up big at tournament time. It's Trinity I have a problem with. 7 years in a row? They're so deep off the bench they can just rotate fresh bodies in and out until eventually the other team is worn out, then they just run out the clock. It's not the kind of "B" basketball I grew up with and loved. Minot Ryan is the same way year after year. Even if they don't recruit, I'm tired of seeing them and their style of ball ruin the tournament. In my opinion, the NDHSAA needs to look at lowering the enrollment requirements for Class A and get some of these teams back up where they belong. I think it would help the Class A game, too. "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 15, 2007 7:39 PM:

" The one point that nobody has brought up regards the location of the regional games. Trinity plays on their home court every year. That needs to change. "

fr. very small town: wrote on Mar 15, 2007 6:36 PM:

" I've been reading the comments, and I just wanted to say that I'm sure all the kids work VERY hard at playing the game. But, being from a very small town, I guess we feel that it is impossible to compete against the bigger schools from Minot, Dickinson, Williston, Fargo, and Bismarck. It's an uphill battle, just like they would feel playing against West Fargo, Mandan, Bismarck High, etc. We used to attend Class B tourneys, now we watch on t.v. It's like watching Class A all over again except Class A might be more exciting with their shot clock! Where's the old style Class B, I miss it!! "

Cranky wrote on Mar 15, 2007 5:04 PM:

" One last thought. Good Luck Shiloh. You provided a good deal of excitement last week in your game against C-S. It could have gone either way and I honestly hated to see C-S loose because they, too, played their heart out. And I am a Shiloh fan. That is what Class B is all about. Good luck to all the teams and may this be the best Class B year ever. "

Cranky for Poppakdog wrote on Mar 15, 2007 4:59 PM:

" "bigpoppakdog wrote on March 12, 2007 8:23 AM:"to momkdog: exactly true!!! You are telling me that Bismarck does not have a larger pool of student/athletes to choose from? Could you tell me why there are Class A teams and Class B teams? If your logic is true then Class B teams should be able to compete with class A teams since they have the same amount of athletes to choose from. I have made my point as clear as I can, recruiting is not an issue...not quite sure how people think these schools recruit...they don't...except there are reports that a bismarck private school coach was seen as far away as Tioga." "bigpoppakdog wrote on March 10, 2007 1:07 PM:"yes I agree...that is the issue...don't quite know how officiating got involved in this..the officiating has drastically improved over the past 10 years for sure....recruiting...well lets say that there are legitimate sources out there that put a certain private school coach in the cafeteria at Tioga talking to a rather tall high school basketball player..." Here are 2 quotes just to make my point. You threw these comments around fairly easily as quotes from your legitimate resources. That is why you get grief about your recruiting comments. People who think they have the goods on someone for recruiting should get it checked out. Then these allegations can be put to rest once and for all. You do a disservice to the school and (don't forget) the young man involved when you throw allegations around as truth. Back it up with proof with the right people or keep your mouth shut. As far as No Child Left Behind. Yes. The privates don't have to comply because they don't take tax dollars for support. But check out Shiloh. Their teachers are very well educated in the areas they teach. The teachers are dedicated. Thier coaching staff is all volunteer, including their head coaches. What does NCLB have to do with how good their sporting teams are? How does that give them an advantage? You lost me on that one. "

The Champ wrote on Mar 15, 2007 1:20 PM:

" From what I have seen this year, the Region V teams were mediocre at best. Ten years ago, the best teams in this region would not have made it out of districts. To all the whiners out there, if you're tired of seeing the same parochial schools make the state tournament. Do something about it. Improve your game. Playing Ball shouldn't end when the high school season ends. There are numerous offseason tournaments and camps around the state and surrounding states each year. One of the biggest reasons we have seen the same schools making the state B. They are putting the time in as a team to make themselves better. I'm OUT. THE CHAMP WAS HERE! "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:23 AM:

" to cranky: find a post with my name on this has ever said I believe shiloh recruits...every post I have made supported that shiloh does not recruit..i have been a supporter for the private schools in this issue...I have said that they have athletes that have transferred in from other schools...anyone that has followed basketball in this region knows that...I have said this doesn't mean they recruited, just have the advantage of being in a large city....as far as not regulated because they are private....the federal govt. regulations on NCLB is a great example of how the private school has an advantage over public school....I'm not really concerned about shiloh's region...what I am the most concerned about is what is going on in the west...shiloh has been beatable every year..in fact this years team is the weakest, but they got it done...over in the west the bottom district team can compete regionally in this region(that is not an insult, but an accurate statement). Maybe someday there will a article in the Bismarck Tribune that will look into this matter and clearly state the advantages of being a private school located in a big city vs a regular public school. "

To Blue Duck wrote on Mar 15, 2007 2:43 AM:

" You describe a situation that is hypothetically possible but has never EVER happened. Not even once. And if it would, there are so many hurdles to jump that it would not be worth it. Please do not encourage BigPoppaKDog's elementary and grossly misled rantings ever again. "

amused wrote on Mar 14, 2007 11:15 PM:

" well I can say one thing, you are all proud of where you come from and thats a good thing. Im proud of where I come from I played for the one bball team that went to state out of region 5 in the last 5 years that wasn't shiloh (flasher). I had a good time and so does every other kid that goes to state. The one game we won at state was by a last second 3 pointer when the game was tied in overtime. I'll always remember that moment and I bet shiloh will always remember theirs. toodles "

Cranky wrote on Mar 14, 2007 10:46 PM:

" bigpoppakdog, you are getting grief about your recruiting comments because you have hinted at and referred to incidents at Shiloh that your legitimate sources have given you an inside tract on. You opened the door with your comments. Even naming towns and describing players. That is where the recruiting comments started because you opened the door. If your sources had the goods on Shiloh and a player why didn't they make a legitimate complaint and get the kid thrown out? Nope, sorry Bigpoppa. You opened the door. Its to late to take back your allegations. "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 14, 2007 10:37 PM:

" Does Shiloh call the NDHSAA and complain about players from other teams like Center does? I doubt it. Shiloh is a class act. "

to bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 14, 2007 9:31 PM:

" How do the privates have an advantage since they are not regulated like public? Please explain? "

fan wrote on Mar 14, 2007 9:24 PM:

" Question. Bigpoppa. Why do you think Shiloh, or other private schools, are not regulated like public schools? Activity Association rules are the rules for everyone in every school. What do you think is different? Shiloh doesn't belng to NDEA but does a Christian School Organization instead. Back up your comments please. "

Cranky wrote on Mar 14, 2007 7:50 PM:

" BlueDuck. Learn the eligibility rules. If a player switches teams/school they are not eligible to play right away. They have to wait something like 90 days before they are eligible. That means if a player gets cut from a Class A team he or she isn't eligible to play during that season. If they move from one town to another with both parents or if their parents get divorced and they switch schools they are allowed to play right away. Think about it. How many parents are going to move or get divorced so their kid can play Class B basketball? Think about it, how many players or parents are going to pay $5000 to sit the bench for that amount of time?? Get real. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 14, 2007 7:42 PM:

" Wow I didn't realize how far some of these commments can go...This article is about shiloh and their accomplishments and these posts continue to address "recruiting." I don't know of one athlete being recruited to shiloh...I do know of 3 stud athletes for the girls team that did not play for shiloh a couple years ago...but also know that shiloh lost some awesome athletes to the bigger schools...I have never said shiloh recruits, give out special tuition privs or caps enrollment....I will say they do have an unfair advantage with the population they have to support their school unlike the smaller class B towns(not school...that is an important distinction). I do find private schools also to have an adv. due to not being regulated like public schools are....anyway I wish Shiloh the best of luck representing our region. "

Dad wrote on Mar 14, 2007 7:41 PM:

" ORCOach-you hit the nail right on the head. Its those coaches that instill the love of the game in kids along with a good work ethic that achieve the most. Where ever that coach is is where you will find a successful sports program. Good coaches are often supported by a good school system and parents/families that go the extra mile to support their school, students and kids. Mike Dwyer and Brad Miller have built just that sort of environment at Shiloh. They should be applauded. What is unfortunate is that Mike Dwyer isn't awarded Coach of the Year as he is very deserving. Jealousy and Private School hysteria probably works against him. It should also be noted that fantastic private school atheletes are rarely awarded with Miss or Mr. Basketball nominations even though they are deserving candidates. Again, private school hysteria and jealousy. As for BlueDuck and your comments. What do you think? That the players from Class A teams in Bismarck rush the doors of Shiloh to play Class B ball the minute they get cut from the team or their playing time isn't what they want? Get real! Shiloh has more athletes leave to play Class A in town than ever thought about transfering in. Those students that transfer in usually do because their family make the choice of a Christian education. Private school tuition levels the playing field between public and private. Instead of whining and crying because private schools do well in this state think of the excellent athletes through out the state who benefit from dedicated coaches and parents. Learn from their success. Don't tear down those programs that do well because of jealousy and misinformation. Mike Dwyer-you deserve coach of the year. So does Brad Miller. Keep up the good work and may others learn from your excellence. The two of you are priceless. "

ok people wrote on Mar 14, 2007 5:00 PM:

" I'm tired of all these people commenting on here acting like they know what they are talking about. If you dont know the facts quit acting like you do!! There is no profession that you can be in or know that gives you all the answers. You just need to quit ASSUMING the worst about these christian schools. They dont get the players cut from class A school. They dont recruit players. Yes, they may have a YMCA in there town but its all about Dedication i'm from a small town and i drove to the city for summer leagues and camps. So just let the kids play ball! "

Blue Duck wrote on Mar 14, 2007 4:19 PM:

" I agree totally with all that big poppakdog is preaching. the "class B" schools in the larger cities do have a distinct advantage. They might necessarily recruit players, but lets put it this way. If BHS or CHS has that many students to choose from and can only have 10 or 12 players on the team, then you can't tell me that some of those kids getting cut still are better ball players than what some of the small towns can come up with. What these kids that get cut will do is go and play at a small school like shiloh or trinity or ryan cause they know they are good enough to play on that team, but not to play at the bigger schools. "

baller wrote on Mar 14, 2007 4:15 PM:

" Can Ross Aman play college ball? "

hugo wrote on Mar 14, 2007 3:39 PM:

" the simple-minded! ! "

ORCS Coach wrote on Mar 14, 2007 3:22 PM:

" As I read thru the arguements about Private and Public schools advantages and disadvantage. I'm questioning why ORCS isn't mentioned. We are a private school that supposedly has our pick of boy basketball players to pick form in the Minot area. I'd like to set the recorded straight. We don't have an abundant amount of boys knocking down our doors to play BB. What we have is parents that are willing to pay a tution so that their kids can get a good education. bigpoppakdog talks as if we can just go out and talk the good basketball players into coming to our school. Just because there are students out there don't mean they will come to your school. Furthur more you would have to include Des Lac Burlington, Surrey and Sawyer into the mix because they can pick from Minot's population just the same as Minot Ryan or ORCS. But you don't want to look at the Class B schools that are on the edges of these big cities, that would distort your findings. As for the arguement that Private schools don't have to fallow NDHSAA rules. Prove it. We fallow the exact same rule as the Public school. Because your history seems to be a little distorted. I'd like to take you back to the 60's. You talk about this run that Dickenson Trinity has, but Kenmare has been in the State Class B tournament 14 time in its history. And most came in the 60's. So my point is there are Small towns out there that continue to make it to the tournament. Kenmare had a chance again this year, but fell short in the Regional tournament. Minot Ryan won our region and will be the favorite again next year. Not because they will get more players out of the Minot pool. But because most of the kids are juniors. It really boils down to who can get there kids in the gym the most, and which coaches are willing to put in the time. I've coached at ORCS the last 6 years 4 at the Varsity level. Not once have I gotten a transfer student in those four years. But what has happened as I created a desire in the players to play as often as possible through out the off season. What has it gotten ORCS. We are now becoming competative with the area school. We made it to the Regional tournament for the first time in school history in 2006 and followed that up with making it there again in 2007. Like I said it wasn't because I was able to pick from the Minot pool system. I also wanted to follow up on the comment someone made about having a bunch of opportunities to play basketball. We have teams traveling to play basketball in the Local YMCA league as far away as Bottineau. Just because it is happening in Minot doesn't stop Class B schools from being apart of it. It was ironic that whoever was using the Turtle Lake example picked the wrong school. They have one of the best basketball players in the state in Cameron Melzer. He is the best because he practices all the time. He didn't need the YMCA leage our College player in the summer. He has a heart and desire to be the best and that is why top colleges are looking at him. You can find that all over the state. Look at the kid from Bowman. They find ways to get in the gym an play for hours to make them selfs better. That is what it all boils down to if you want it you still have to put in the time. I think what private schools do is get more of there kids to find time do dedicate practicing over the summer, that is why you will see private schools in the state tournament. Not because of the bigger pools to pick from. I will concide one point. Kids in the rural schools are getting lazier. I growup in Kenmare and I remember working on the farm until dark and then playing BB or FB late into the night. I still go back to Kenmare to farm and I don't see kids with that same work ethic. And I truly believe that is why some of these school that use to be powerhouses have not made it to the state tournament in a while. Just cerious but why isn't this arguement made during FB. I mean Velva has won alot of FB titles. I know that they don't have a big pool to pull from. Same arguement, it's the coach that can show or convince their kids that all the off season will pay. Not the large pool to chose from. Because even if you were right, you still have to get kids to play together and that is harder then having average players and convincing them to work for what you want. That is my two cents coming from a coach "

Smart Guy wrote on Mar 14, 2007 1:54 PM:

" Don't make excuses for Shiloh making state and your team losing! Maybe if your team would put in the work they would make it... don't bring in the stupid argument put parochial schools in class a or another class just because they outperformed your team. "

3 Class System wrote on Mar 14, 2007 12:56 PM:

" Class A, Class B, and Private Schools. This would solve everyone's problem. "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 14, 2007 10:39 AM:

" Just think what this debate would have been if Center would have had their full squad. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 14, 2007 8:12 AM:

" don't bring up mr. lauf in this....his opinion in this matter would surpsise you. Its amazing when facts support arguments how people suddenly turn cruel and start calling other people names. Issue is seeing the same city in both class a and class b tournaments and the advantages/disadvantages of being at a school located in these towns....the arguments against these schools are quite clear...the arguments for these schools seems to be people who call others names and say get over it...or get a life.....the thing you have going against you is that you have a team that has represented a region in class b boys for 7 straight years....unheard of....has Shiloh represented this region proudly..without a doubt...if it seems I or others are trying to take away your accomplishments that was not the intent........ "

I agree wrote on Mar 14, 2007 6:45 AM:

" One more thing. If a school is accused of recruiting or a student it only takes a phone call to the right place and Sherm will take a close look at what has occurred. A complaint to the HS athletic association gets the school and student investigated. All of these accusations about recruitment efforts have been made but you never hear that it has been substantiated. If all these people who complain about recruitment really have facts they should put their money where their mouth is and turn the information over so that it can be looked at officially. If not, SHUT UP and quit with the sour grapes. "

I agree wrote on Mar 14, 2007 6:36 AM:

" I also grew up in MN with a multi-tiered system. At first three was 2 and it was the same as in ND. Everyone watched. Everyone went to the game. Whole towns closed down to head to the cities at tournement time. Then they added multiple tiers and now, hardly anyone cares. Its lost its appeal. Its nowhere near as fun or exciting. In fact, you hardly know its tournement time. ND take a lesson from Minnesota. Don't get caught up in a three class system because I don't think you will enjoy the outcome near as much. "

b.ball fan wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:58 PM:

" Wow, these are fun comments. I guess it's nice to see both sides of the story, as well as unbiased opinions, expressed. I know without any doubts that Shiloh does not recruit (no free tuition for sports, no tuition reduction for sports, nothing), doesn't require its students to play sports, does not limit its enrollment, or any of that. As for "hot-shot players" coming to Shiloh: yeah, everyone knew those little middle schoolers and kindergarteners were going to be amazing when their families moved to Bismarck/enrolled them in Shiloh. And Bismarck's size has nothing to do with Shiloh's success, except maybe in the camps/leagues area. But if small-town schools really wanted to equalize their advantage, they could hold team camps of their own. Think of Linton's girls' program: they were very good for many years because they worked year-round on building an excellent program. Or New Salem's girls' program the last few years: they came to Bismarck for camps and did traveling teams in the summer. It paid off. The thing is, even if those tons of Bismarck kids *can* come to Shiloh, they obviously *don't.* Thus, the size of the city doesn't matter. If Shiloh selected which of these kids to accept, why make those selections sophomores? On to the sportsmanship issue. I think neither team was a shining example of it, frankly. There were several posters on both sides that should not have been allowed. Do people honestly think those signs will have an effect on the outcome of the game? All it does is spark arguments and resentment. The game itself was good; it was entertaining to watch. I wish Shiloh the best at State B and all Region V teams good luck next season! "

2 cents wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:27 PM:

" The Shiloh boys this year are the most fun team to watch you all should get off your computers and watch them at the STATE tournament this weekend!!But I guess if sitting there talking smack about an amazing group of boys is more entertaining for you then.. well then your pathetic! "

I'm just saying... wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:16 PM:

" 1st- TO the refs... you have a largely thankless job. It is easy to criticize as an anonymous face in the crowd or behind a computer. You put yourself out there, in front of everyone, and do your best... Thank you!! I played for many years and tried to ref once, it was a horrible experience for all involved so I applaud you. If you think it is easy... try it!! 2nd- Be careful wishing for a larger class system... it takes away from the prestige of just being there. I played in MN under a 2 class system, we went to state one year, and it was one of the best athletic memories I have from high school. Our town almost shut down when we went. Then MN switched to a 4 class system and the prestige was lost. Opening round games were played all over the state. 32 teams went instead of 16. Think about it, a class A school goes to state and they are in the to 50%... big deal. A class B school goes and they are in the top 10%... now thats cool!!! If you are from a smaller town, support your kids... get them in the gym, year round... don't force it, but make it available... they will take advantage of opportunities when it is there. I was in a town of 2000, one of our best rivals was from a town of 300.(populations, not enrollment) They never cried about size... THEY WORKED HARDER!! Shouldn't have to explain that concept in ND... "

Class B wrote on Mar 13, 2007 7:00 PM:

" Don't fret. The 3 class system is very near. That will level the playing field for everyone involved. My problem with the State B Tourney is the fact that the same 4-6 schools are in the tourney every year. I want parody in the Class B. I want all the schools to have an equal opportunity to make the state tourney. I love it when an .500 team makes it. I love it when a school that have never been there before makes it. What are the chances that this happens when schools are competing against teams where the school enrollment is larger many times over. To me the State B is boring. Not as boring at the State A but it is headed down that path is it is going to be the same schools there every year. When people talk about recruiting the problem with the argument on both sides is the definition of the word recruit. Maybe the private schools don't recruit as a college would but do they by a simpler definition? Do they offer free tuition for a student if they are a good ball player? If they do that would be recruiting in my book. When a student moves to small town America are they participation fees waived? No. Let us not argue about what is fair and what is not. Instead let us fix a State B that is headed down a road of destruction. Everyone talks about the State B being the "Cash Cow" of ND that nobody wants to mess with. Well if they want to keep it a "Cash Cow" they better mess with it. Look at tv numbers over the past 10 years. Look at attendance over the past 10 years. You will see a downward trend. If you don't agree that we have a problem then I'm certain you belong to one of the schools that is always there and would like to see it stay that way. "

BBlover wrote on Mar 13, 2007 5:13 PM:

" All I want to say is that Shiloh is a great school, for any christian student that wants a christian education. Shiloh has no more of an advantage as another class B school does to get students. Wouldn't it be just as easy for a student to transfer to Center as Shiloh,PLUs center has more students than shiloh...honestly, BigpoppakDog, idk what you do for a living or what, but i think you need to get off the computer and maybe look at what is really important in life...seriously, would your life be complete if Center would have gone to state?! everything happens for a reason, and does it affect your life who plays in the state tournament? I mean really...think about Mr. Lauff!! how would u feel if u didn't know how long you had and u spent it on Bismarcktribune.com fighting w/ people? if that makes your day, then GO for it...but i think we all need to look at what's important. the game is over, Both teams played very well and both deserve a BIG congrats...do something worthwhile, i'm sure there are better things to do w/ your day then argue about a game that is already over and pick on kids who have gone to shiloh since kindergarten. those kids deserve to go to state, they worked really hard this season( as did center, not taking anything away from their effort),but give them some credit..and get off the computer! "

Answer wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:45 PM:

" Bigpoopa-Shiloh doesn't require their students to participate in a sport. Sutdents are allowed to play if they want. Not to if that is that their choice. They can play three sports a year or non at all. Its the students choice. "

Fan wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:44 PM:

" Shiloh would still fall into the class with the smallest schools. They have less than 100 in high school "

Active Parent wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:43 PM:

" Opportunity Theory: I was an involved parent of a talented basketball player in a small, Class B school. My son and his friends were LOCKED out of the school gym and discouraged from playing in any off-season games or tournements. Camps were frowned upon as the coaches said they fostered bad habits. When my son went anyway because he loved the game I was condemned by the coaches and criticized by other parents who said at the school board meeting that I was setting a bad precedent. My friend volunteered as a grade school coach and let my son and friends into the gym while he held practices. Other parents complained that it was unfair and the school superintendent took his keys away. Meanwhile the HS principal let his son play every evening and weekend but that was ok. My son wasn't a troublemaker and neither were his friends. They were well supervised, looking for something to do in a small town other than drive around and drink. Tired coaches and parents with a small town mentality were the problem. Don't hide behind "opportunity" as a reason to judge Class B schools in larger towns. Its the overall attitude of some small towns and small minds. I say SOME because other small schools encourage gym time, dedication and hard work. The gym is a great place to make friends and play a good game of pick-up ball. Many of those in small town who complaine most about Shiloh, Trinity, Ryan and Oak Grove won't do a thing to encourage young players or even open a school gym to allow that extra practice time. "

Class B Fan wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:42 PM:

" I believe the reason teams such as Trinity, Shiloh, Oak Grove, etc. have successful teams is that the students have more opportunity to improve their games through increased competition in their towns. To be the best player in Turtle Lake is probably easier than to be the best player in Bismarck. In Turtle Lake or any other traditional class B town, you compete against other kids in your town the majority of the time. Some kids in class B towns have no interest in basketball, but participate just because everyone else does. In Bismarck, Dickinson, Fargo, etc., the kids that participate in basketball have more of a drive to succeed in the sport. These kids work on their games at the YMCA’s, open gyms, summer leagues, acceleration programs, basketball camps, and in their driveways. They have to do this in order to be included in the games at the Y or at open gyms. In Turtle Lake, you show up for open gym, you are guaranteed a chance to play because only a few people will show up. There is a saying that a rising tide lifts all boats. The same goes for the level of basketball. The competition has gotten better in Bismarck, Dickinson, Fargo, etc., and all of the kids in those towns have gotten better because of it, regardless of the school. The level of play has not risen in the smaller towns as much because there is not been increased competition for playing time in these towns. "

Brady wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:15 PM:

" Can someone please find me ONE state that distinguishes its classes on a cities population base. I am quite confident that you will find that all states look at individual school enrollment figures. To do anything else would be just plain ridiculous. "

think wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:01 PM:

" Why not reclassify? Have A, B, & C. They do this in larger cities and states. "

Big Momma K Dog wrote on Mar 13, 2007 3:29 PM:

" Seriously, Big Poopa K Diggity Dog Dizzle, you think your comments are "too concrete and hard to argue"? WHAT?! HA HA HA! I just shredded you like confetti, and it wasn't even difficult. I'm done with you, son -- go play. "

Momma Love wrote on Mar 13, 2007 3:02 PM:

" Can't we all just get along "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 13, 2007 2:52 PM:

" to wow: I have said that..shiloh doesn't recruit...they just have had high profile athletes on their basketball teams that have come from other class b schools...makes them look like they recruit.....does shiloh cap their enrollment? Probably not....have schools capped their enrollment in the past? Yes. Do some private schools require their students to participate in a certain number of sports? Yes. Does shiloh? Don't know...and I am not going to accuse them of it....My argument is population choice...you say get over it...nice argument to use huh...get over it.....I would welcome a debate concerning educational issues...just bring facts and support for your arguments...and not "get over it" statements...otherwise it would be a waste of time. "

yikes wrote on Mar 13, 2007 2:24 PM:

" I have children at both Class A and private class B schools in the same town. I have no doubt that they will have to work equally as hard if they want to be champions. What a handicap you give your kids if you think they cannot compete with other kids because they come from a smaller community. Whether Shiloh or Center, I am sure both teams would be equally excited to represent their school at the state tournament. "

WOW... wrote on Mar 13, 2007 2:09 PM:

" Let's just get this all straight right now. Shiloh doesn't recruit. They have a tuition of $5K per student, and they DON'T have a cap on their enrollment. So just because it's located in Bismarck doesn't mean that they should be class A. Shiloh or any other private schools don't have any unfair advantages in sports. Get over it. bigpoppakdog should probably stop talking now because he has no clue what he's talking about-too bad he thinks he does-you're done. "

To WD2 wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:58 AM:

" yes Bismarck has 3000 people that they can get to come to shiloh, Shiloh very rarely has people from Class A schools come there,...and you said the population numbers of those schools. Shiloh has around 100 people in their high school, so that means they are about equal with Washburn and those schools. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:56 AM:

" to hmm...exactly true...why don't you go around and ask Killdeer, Belfield, richardton, glen ullin hebron, wilton, and all the other students from districts who have a large city school within...listen to what they tell you....then go tell them to get a life and see what type of response you would get....the discussions are meant to bring up points of view to address concerns...not to insult people....sorry my arguments and my points only can be returned with "get a life" comments...maybe they are too concrete and hard to argue....that's not my fault.... "

Fan wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:27 AM:

" Can someone tell me which NDHSAA guidelines that private schools don't have to follow? And....of course there are students who have transferred in from smaller schools. Ever heard of adults relocating for their job? Is there something wrong with checking out the schools in a community and then deciding which one parents feels is best for their child. And, as long as I'm asking questions, why is it that neither Shiloh Christian (or Trinity Christian) have no athletes on their current teams that have transferred from a different high school in town? There are more students who transfer out to BHS or CHS than those who transfer in from those same high schools to attend Shiloh. "

hmm wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:20 AM:

" to: bigpoppakdog, seems like you have a lot of free time on your hands, get a life what is important is that those kids had fun whether they won of lost it is just a game.....they are just kids.... "

insider wrote on Mar 13, 2007 7:03 AM:

" The population pool #'s are misleading, the number of kids that would actually seriously consider Shiloh or any big town private school are similar to a typical small town. I think the big advantage the big town kids have is the conveniance of year around extra camps and tournments that big towns can offer. It's hard for most small town kids to get that extra organized practice. "

Big Momma K Dog wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:04 AM:

" Bigpoppa, you keep using the same dumb word: "Choose." No one is "choosing" players from the entire population of Bismarck. Maybe students CHOOSE a school to go to, but that's not the school's fault or problem. Is the "pool" bigger for BHS to choose from then Center's pool? Yes, because BHS has 1,400 students. They get to "Choose" from 1,400 students, or, more accurately, the 25 students who bother to try out. Shiloh, on the other hand, gets to "choose" from roughly the SAME SIZE POOL as Center. The fact that they are in Bismarckis completely immaterial because they only have 200 kids in their classrooms. That's why they are Class B. Maybe you didn't get that memo. You keep throwing around numbers like 75,000, as if Shiloh really has 75,000 people to choose from. That is a red herring if I've ever seen one. What a stupid argument this has become. How old are you, seriously? "

PT wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:03 AM:

" I attended every game of the Region V tournament and I have to say that there are some great players in this region. It is exciting to get to watch the great basketball that they play. The thing that is disappointing at times is to see the attitudes that are allowed both on the floor and in the stands which can ruin the fun and excitement of such an event. Many of the comments that have been written want to blame one team or another, one place's fans for this or that, or even the ref's for the way they called the game. The thought that we might step back and ponder is that no one can cause anyone to do anything (the ref's, the fan's, or the players). We need to take responsibility for our own actions and quit blaming one thing or another or one person/group or another. Every team that I saw play had it's great moments and some not so great moments. I just want to say great job to all of those players who gave their very best and had fun doing it, and I want to say great job to all of those fans who came out and rooted their teams and players on to do their best. I want to also add that those who let their mouths and attitudes fly should not blame other people for their actions, but just maybe we (and I include myself) should step back and reflect on how we can be better players and fans that would represent our schools (and even the God we serve) better. Great job Shiloh and Center. I know that you both gave your best and it was truly a great game. "

Opportunity Theory wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:48 PM:

" Interesting dialog that is as old as it is new. The real topic at hand ... Class B schools in Class A towns. In my opinion this dispute shouldn't be centered on recruiting, tuition, enrollment, or public vs. private. Instead ... the argument should be about opportunity. According to the Hoopster ... Shiloh and the co-op of Mott-Regent (M-R) have approx the same enrollment 9-12. Does a kid who lives in M-R have the same basketball opportunities as a kid who lives in Bismarck? How many basketball camps are in MR? How many youth tournaments, open gyms, team camps, acceleration programs, AAU teams, traveling teams? How many opportunities to play against local college players who stick around for the summer? How many kids in MR can start playing basketball at the local YMCA in kindergarten or 1st grade? In general terms, kids that live in Bismarck, Fargo, Minot, or Dickinson have an increased opportunity to advance their basketball skills. Many times coaches point to off season skill betterment as a key to a team's success. The more opportunities kids have to improve their skills the higher the probability they will succeed as a team. In my opinion this "Opportunity Theory" is why we've seen a recent rash of state Class B tournament appearances by teams from Class A towns. I'm also quite certain this trend will continue. "

WD2 wrote on Mar 12, 2007 10:09 PM:

" Let's see. 2005-2006 9-12 School District Populations. Underwood-75;Washburn-110;Wilton-74;Center-Stanton-108;Selfridge-12;Solen-52;Bismarck four schools combined-2998. This is the base from which Shiloh has an opportunity to draw it's students. Considerably larger pool than any of the smaller schools mentioned. The same is true for all other parochial schools located in large communities in ND. No one needs to recruit, the pool from which any school can draw it's students is huge. This is what is different. This is what makes the playing field uneven. It's a sense of fairness. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 12, 2007 9:35 PM:

" My arguments are clear and supported. I do not believe these schools recruit. I know these arguments of these schools being in class B has been ongoing for some time. The issue is schools located in the largest communities of ND. I did not state anything about "christian" schools...assume is not very good policy to do...The small class b schools have town populations in the hundreds....while these schools have populations in the tens of thousdands....what's sickening about those arguments? As far as Shiloh goes...there are athletes there that 100% without a doubt transferred in from other smaller class B schools...this ability to transfer like this is probably what has caused the "recruit" label...these people just took advantage of the opportunity, but does cause bad feelings...is it fair? I don't know...is it wrong..definately not...but do you see how incidents like these cause hard feelings? Easy to say just get over it if you attend these schools...not easy to hear if you are not from these schools...In addition...private schools do not have to run the same as public schools(NDHSAA guidelines for example) because they are private...anyway really doesn't matter....but just wanted to point in addition to a large gene pool to choose from they also have other advantages that public schools do not... "

mirroman wrote on Mar 12, 2007 4:42 PM:

" Wow, you can just feel the passion as you read through these responses. If we could get just as passsionate about smoking and alcohol and teenage pregnancy and drug use and excellence in education and the myriad of things that are really important to young people?????? If winning and losing becomes too important- nobody wins! As an unattached observer of the Center-Stanton and Shiloh game I did notice several things. Center-Stanton missed an unusual number of free throws. As a former coach, this really provided Shiloh with the opportunity to stay in the game and even have a miracle shot at the end. It was not a lack of effort by CS. I felt talent-wise Center Stanton was superior. But basketball is a crazy game and when talented teams do not close out a game, they can lose. Shiloh executed several out of bounds plays very well and took advantage of game situations. They did play like seniors more than freshman and sophomores. Center Stanton had the momentum going into the last few minutes. They exhibited why they were the favorites. I also observed the unfortunate throwing of objects into the Shiloh crowd that swarmed the floor after the winning basket from the CS student section (I was on their side of the gym) As the baseball coach would say, it was no lollipop throw but a strike! I wish the best to every athlete who competed in the contest and winning and losing has very little to do with the score. Shiloh gets the opportunity to advance and I wish them well and hope that they can represent Shiloh and Region V well. What really matters here is real life education and showing respect for each other in victory and defeat. It is time again to define success and victory in bigger terms! "

ClassBThoughts wrote on Mar 12, 2007 3:30 PM:

" To bigpoppakdog - You obviously have some evidence that some of these schools selectively allow students to attend their school. I don't claim to have any knowledge about whether some of them do or not. My kids don't go to any of these schools and I didn't go to any of them. I can say, with relative certainty, that Shiloh does not limit the number of students it accepts. In fact, I believe they sometimes have a shortage of kids. The limiting factor is often the tuition costs associated with attending there. If they were limiting the number of kids into their school based on Class B athletics, don't you think they would have more than the 80 to 90 students in grades 9-12? Wouldn't it be to their advantage to get it much closer to the 325 limit? Shiloh has never been Class A size, and probably never will. You may very well have valid points on other private schools in the state - points I cannot either confirm or refute. I'm still not sure the answer is to simply lump them into Class A. Some of these discussions probably can be linked to the notion that success breeds contempt. I'm sure if a Beulah or a Hazen sent 5 teams in a row to the state tournament, there would be calls to lower the Class A threshold. One of the common themes these privates do have is consistency of their coaching staffs. This is probably one of the bigger advantages any school can have. Smaller Class B schools have a more difficult time retaining a good coach for an extended period of time. "

get over it! wrote on Mar 12, 2007 3:27 PM:

" TO bigpoppakdog sounds like you just have a problem with christian schools. your arguements are sickening. maybe you should just get over it. this is never even an issue until the boys state tournament "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 12, 2007 2:27 PM:

" to class b thoughts...exactly...problem is they don't want to get too large or they'll go back to class A...plus it wouldn't look good if they hold try-outs...then it would support recruiting wouldn't it? Private schools who can choose to accept who they want and how many they want from a population of tens of thousands shouldn't be class B...most of them use to be...there are schools also that are still class b but their city population(which is their enrollment pool) continues to decrease....Bismarck Dickinson, Minot, Fargo....not the case. I will go on record to say these schools do not want to go back to class A because they will get it handed to them on a silver platter...then they wouldn have to use the same argument all these other schools are using against trinity minot ryan etc..... My big point is that the history of Class B basketball use to have such great stories...now the stories are about Minot, Dickinson......we don't need these cities representing class B.....they should represent class A where they belong. "

ClassBThoughts wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:58 AM:

" If you use the logic that all big-city schools should be Class A, including Shiloh, Dickinson Trinity, Minot Ryan, Fargo Oak Grove, then you would also have to say that any student would be able to play for any team. Therefore, Minot Ryan would be able to hold tryouts for BB for any student-athlete in Minot. Is that what bigpoppakdog is saying? There would be added costs associated with playing Class A - who would pay for that? The state? Separation of church/state? "

seriously wrote on Mar 12, 2007 10:20 AM:

" Are you serious? Are you saying private schools should be in their own tourney? Oh that would be fun, Or are you saying that private schools should be eliminated from all sporting events? Oh no that's right, their not as good in other sports, so we can include them in those sports. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 12, 2007 8:23 AM:

" to momkdog: exactly true!!! You are telling me that Bismarck does not have a larger pool of student/athletes to choose from? Could you tell me why there are Class A teams and Class B teams? If your logic is true then Class B teams should be able to compete with class A teams since they have the same amount of athletes to choose from. I have made my point as clear as I can, recruiting is not an issue...not quite sure how people think these schools recruit...they don't...except there are reports that a bismarck private school coach was seen as far away as Tioga. Bismarck Shiloh Christian, Dickinson Trinity, Williston Trinity Christian, Fargo Oak Grove, Minot Ryan are all schools located in cities that are growing by rapid numbers....Glen Ullin, Center, Wing, Steele as well as every class B small town school are struggling to stay afloat with no thought of ever having to cap their enrollment. I suggest you take a economics class dealing with supply and demand, or do some research on the state of Class B sports and the number of school districts around. One more thing...the towns population has nothing to do with enrollment? See this is where you probably don't understand the facts about class B and Class A....you have to live in Center to go to center school unless you go through an open enrollment process and ask to go to a particular school, which they do not have to take you..this has to be done the previous year....if you live in Bismarck that is your district...go to bhs...century...shiloh.....if you live in in Steele, you go to steele public high school....understand yet? "

Also wrote on Mar 11, 2007 5:46 PM:

" The only kids moving to Shiloh from out of town are doing so because their parents moved to town. I guess they couldn't use their college degrees working at the grocery store in Mott or the family farm in Medina, so they had to move to Bismarck. Does that give Shiloh an advantage? Maybe in theory, but the enrollment numbers and cold hard facts do not bear that out at all. "

It's like volunteeting for JV wrote on Mar 11, 2007 5:43 PM:

" Why would someone good enough to play for BHS or Century go to Shiloh to play Class B basketball? That makes no sense, has about a zero percent chance of happening, and would seem to seriously hinder Shiloh's so-called "recruting" tactics. "

Big Momma K Dog wrote on Mar 11, 2007 5:42 PM:

" Here's the worst question of the thread: Q: "The problem is how many people does center-new salem-glen ullin etc...have to choose from?" A: It depends ENTIRELY on the school's enrollment...not the town's population. I don't think Shiloh and Trinity are out walking the mean streets of Bismarck and scouting the playground courts of Fargo for free agent basketball players that want to pay money to go to a private schhol just so they can be on a Class B basketball team. Ridiculous. Bigpoppakdog says himself that recruiting is "not an issue," so why is the town's pop. an issue at all? What, you're saying that just because Shiloh is in Bismarck, and even though it has the same enrollement as, say, Wing, Shiloh is somehow more likley to ATTRACT student-athletes? That all sorts of good basketball players from Bismarck go to Shiloh instead of trying to play Class A ball? That Bismarck somehow has more atheltic ability per capita than a Class B town? Is that what you're trying to say? I hope so, because it's making me giggle a lot right now. Good work! "

another youngballer wrote on Mar 11, 2007 3:38 PM:

" i cant wait to see what people say when they see tanners friesens bro hes a heck of a baller. shiloh sure showd there skills by recruitin him when he was 5 same with wyatt knell whos been there since he was 5. way to go!!! Go shiloh BELIEVE. "

to WD2 wrote on Mar 11, 2007 1:30 PM:

" Just so you are aware...the parochial schools are not stealing Class B sports form their pubic counterparts. They are just as good as the public kids! My kids attend a smalll Class B public school and I have no doubt in my mind that my team could beat Shiloh. We've played them-they are really good. But that's what puts the FUN into Class B games. I'm sure that you understand that basketball is actually fun to play and fun to watch. So let's keep it fun-instead of lashing out in jealously. It's JUST a game! And the kids like playing it. "

Bismarck Fan wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:25 AM:

" Good Job Mandan girls for #5. You work hard and it sure shows. Now Bigpoppakdog and the rest of the naysayers will call foul. Mandan MUST recruit. Let's drag them down in the mud and cast a blind eye to their talent and hard work. Don't listen to it. Seize the moment and enjoy your success. Parents too. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 10, 2007 3:10 PM:

" people do complain about Mayport...have for years....people are just as happy when they don't make it as a class a town doesn't make it. As far are tuition goes in a private school there are many ways that the $$$ amount it cost to go to private school can get absorbed or reduced.....again recruiting is not an issue...there is no more recruiting that goes on for private schools as the big class a schools..in fact I would say these top class a schools recruit more than anybody else...You just cannot say it is equitable for these schools located in Minot, Dickinson, Fargo, Bismarck to those located in hankinson, center, new rockford, etc.....schools that use to be class A in the good old days are now class b because their school enrollment has dropped equitably to their town size...can't say that for these class a located schools...in fact these cities are growing and growing in population every year, yet these schools will continue to be in class B....doesn't make any sense...people need to focus on that point and get off the recruiting issue because that is NOT an issue...I believe people are frustrated due to the fact mom and dad can get a jog in these big cities and decide what school they want to enroll their kid...while these smaller towns are trying to just survive let alone field competitive basketball/sports teams...NDHSAA needs to think about these issues...not real fun to turn on the tv for Class A and see Dickinson vs Minot and then a week later see the same thing again Dickinson vs Minot.....for those who support private schools let me ask you this..since you were class A at one time and your city has continued to increase in size why did you leave class a to go down to class b anyway? Was it because you couldn't be competitive? If so, then you better allow and recognize the frustrations of these other schools who are arguing that same point also...hard to be competitive with bigger city schools.... "

uff-da wrote on Mar 10, 2007 3:02 PM:

" I hope the sportmanship was better at the region tournament than is being shown in this paper. The tournament is over and all the complaining will not change the outcome. It is a fact of life that sometimes dreams go up in smoke. Congratulations to Mr. Lauf for being chosen athletic director of the year and Mr. Sorlie for being chosen coach of the year by their peers! "

Nick wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:05 PM:

" You complain about how these class B towns dont make it and the private schools keep winning. Class B towns that combine with other towns probably have more people than smaller private schools. You cant say that they bring in players from Class A schools. Shiloh has 2 seniors and 5 sophomores playing on their Varsity team. If they recruited people from Class A, then they would probably have more seniors and juniors, instead of all the sophomores. Good Luck to all of the teams in the State Tournament. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 10, 2007 1:07 PM:

" yes I agree...that is the issue...don't quite know how officiating got involved in this..the officiating has drastically improved over the past 10 years for sure....recruiting...well lets say that there are legitimate sources out there that put a certain private school coach in the cafeteria at Tioga talking to a rather tall high school basketball player...but really...these schools don't recruit...they just are at the advantage of having many many student/athletes choose to go to their school because they are located within a LARGE city...also to reinforce my point about capping their enrollments...I totally believe if 100-200 students suddenly showed up at Trinity Doorstep or shiloh's for that matter that many of them would be turned away....at least enough of them to keep their enrollments below that cut line for a/b.....guarantee it!! Also not to take anything away from Shiloh, but they were not nearly as strong as they have been and they just got it done this year while the other schools fell on their faces... "

Unbiased wrote on Mar 10, 2007 11:33 AM:

" Class B Fan: Shiloh and Trinity and Oak Grove may be in bigger cities but their tuition fees level the playing field. Consider the Class B schools that can move their students around and form these consolidated teams, some different each year in every sport. Small schools just co-op with as many towns as it takes to put together a winning team. Truth is the number of "true" Class B schools is limited. Why doesn't anyone speak up about Mayport-Clifford-Galesburg and how ever many schools they combine? They have been importing athletes for years and no one complains. Is it because their students don't pay tuition? "

Another SRST B-Ball fan wrote on Mar 10, 2007 11:21 AM:

" If players pout and parents think they control what goes on in a game, they have no place in or around the court. I thought basketball was a team sport. "

class B fan wrote on Mar 10, 2007 8:40 AM:

" I am just so tired of these private schools that are located in Class A cities stealing the Class B tournament. Whatever happened to good ole' class B? Something needs to be done. It doesn't matter what the population of the school is--they still have a bigger advantage. The NDHAA needs to do something. These small towns can't compete. How many years has Trinity been there? "

dante wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:23 PM:

" its just a freakin game... really.. people are dying out there... its just a freakin silly game... people are dying out there..... get over it... "

fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:21 PM:

" Congratulations Shiloh on a great game! Even though there are bad feelings toward private schools like Shiloh, buzzer-beater regional championships are what Class B basketball is all about no matter who the winner is! Tommy Dwyer had a great shot at the end! Good luck Shiloh at the tournament next week, Region 5 is cheering for you! "

Online Editor wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:35 PM:

" To to the editor: Your information is potentially libelous and cannot be published. Please stop posting it. If you have further questions about why it is not being posted feel free to call me on Monday at the Tribune. Jason Lueder - 250-8291. "

Unbiased wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:44 PM:

" The highschool students who transfered into Shiloh in the last 6 years did so because their parents moved into Bismarck from other parts of the state. Their parents chose to pay the hefty tuition bills so their kids could have a Christian education. "

Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 8:54 PM:

" There has been two kids who have transfered from two different schools in the past 6 years to Shiloh, 2 in the junior season and one in his senior season, and not from any close school, that doesn't seem a little bit obvious to anyone. Granted you guys do have one of the top five coaches in the state who runs an awesome program, you can't get all upset for the people who are jealous about Shiloh going to state so often. It was a game of misfortunes but the way i see it is Shiloh had 17 almost double the fouls C S had. You can't even say that a couple of them were not bad calls either. But there were two calls that literaly did take the best player out of the game. "

bball1 wrote on Mar 9, 2007 8:07 PM:

" to Cwife...that is not how a "Christian" school should be acting? Please do not try to associate yourself with how a certain school should and should not behave based on whether or not are Christian. Crude behavior should not be tolerated at any school...that includes Center as well! It's time to end these childish comments...please grow up. "

Parent wrote on Mar 9, 2007 7:42 PM:

" If you take a look at the students at Shiloh you will see that their longevity speaks louder than words. Enrollment is open to any who choose a Christian education for their child. There are no enrollment caps so bring on your 100 students to sign up. It is the support, encouragment and Christian environmnet that makes Shiloh what it is. Where better for a young group of men to work hard and excel. Last nights game could easily have gone the other way. Then what would the "chatter" all be about? "

Region fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 7:42 PM:

" You have to be kidding me. I am so sick of everyone blaming the refs. All I hear is about the bad calls, are people trying to say that one team got all the bad calls and the other team didn't. It was an even game between C S and shiloh all the way through, and Shiloh got the break. each team could of did more to play the better game. I mean what if Center would've shot 50 percent from the line then what, there are always the what if's the score of the game is not going to change. Its over. "

bubba wrote on Mar 9, 2007 7:38 PM:

" so I dont understand this, are people saying that no small class B schools have ever went to the state tournament? How is it that a game that was won at the buzzer by a 3 point shot was unfair becasue the winning team came from a larger city. Seems like they could have lost just as easily as they won. To bad we have so many sore losers that have to have a reason for their loss. Seems to me that two very talented teams played a very good game. If a team does very well for several seasons that would be a show for a very good coach. Maybe prayer has something to do with it also. "

SRST BBall fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 6:45 PM:

" Standing Rock has some good basketball players and Head Coach McLaughlin, it is sad that players have to pout and parents get upset for their teens wrongs! What comes around goes around, think about parents!!!!!!! "

Wondering wrote on Mar 9, 2007 6:42 PM:

" Can someone name one Class "B" PUBLIC school that has been to the state tournament 7 years in a row? Dickinson Trinity will be there for their 7th straight year and football is just about the same at Trinity. I remember seeing a sports story on KFYR about a Mandan resident who went to St. Marys High School so he could play hockey at Bismarck High. That is really working the system. "

truth wrote on Mar 9, 2007 6:18 PM:

" Sorry to inform you bigpoppakdog you obviously don’t know this profession as well as you thought. Shiloh most defiantly does NOT cap the enrollment; in fact they are open to any Christian student looking for academic excellence. "

bigpoppakdog wrote on Mar 9, 2007 5:11 PM:

" For the Last time, do not compare school enrollments...that has nothing to do with it...private schools cap their enrollment.Don't tell me different because I know this profession. The problem is how many people does center-new salem-glen ullin etc...have to choose from? Put all these towns populations together and you still don't get close to the population of bismarck-dickinson-minot etc...that IS the issue....if there was no Shiloh Christian wouldn't these athletes/students be BHS/century athletes/students???? Enrollment is not the issue...town population is the issue...or should I say City population for these other schools...should get together about 100 students and try to enroll at shiloh or dickinson trinity and see what happens....shame that Class A and Class B boys basketball will end up being the same teams over and over....from the same City.....oh well.... "

ClassB_Thoughts wrote on Mar 9, 2007 4:20 PM:

" I grew up in a Class B town and now live in Bismarck. I find it interesting the argument that Dickinson Trinity, Minot Ryan, Shiloh, etc. shouldn't be in Class B. Where should they be? Class A? Class B-Christian? It is said they have a much larger pool of kids to choose from. I don't recall any BHS students playing for Shiloh. I don't know of any Dickinson High students playing for Trinity. The only students playing for these schools are enrolled there. To put Shiloh, Oak Grove, and others into another class such as Class A is ludicrous. These private schools are members of the NDHSAA just like all the other schools in the state. They pay the membership fee to NDHSAA (I assume there is one)just like the other schools, and the parents of these students pay taxes to support the public schools just like everyone else. The only fair way to put schools into different classes is by enrollment, which is the way it is done now. "

To WD2 wrote on Mar 9, 2007 3:54 PM:

" Just because Shiloh is from a big town doesn't mean that they should be Class A. Center has more students then Shiloh does. Yea, Bismarck may have 75000+ people, but not everyone is a Christian and wants to attend Shiloh. Stop complaining that your team had an unfair advantage. Shiloh was the better team and that's why they won. "

CWife wrote on Mar 9, 2007 3:54 PM:

" To Parent, your kids are just as bad. They have personal messages up about CS players. Yes you probably didn't see them because you were so far up on your pedastal, but they were way more offensive than the "priceless sign that was held up. That was not how a "Christian" school should be acting. "

BBGuy wrote on Mar 9, 2007 3:33 PM:

" Just a note to congrulate all the teams that participated in the Region V tournament this past weekend. Truly enjoyable experience as a fan. Also, noted that Shiloh has now qualified for 4 of the last 5 state tournaments. Amazing job by the coaching staff (Dwyer, Miller, and Bohl) and players to consistently put forward this type of effort. This is probably a better measure of coaching than the District, Region, and State Coach of the Year Awards. "

Parent wrote on Mar 9, 2007 3:00 PM:

" I think signs produced by C-S students in regards to "recruiting" put out the message loud and clear. My question being "where were the parents & school officials who should have known better and discouraged the showing of such sign?" at the Regional Tournement. C-S students and fans should know that what is "Priceless" is the christian education and family atmosphere of support that is available at Shiloh Christian. In this day and age being able to send kids to school in such an environment is "priceless". As a parent who previously lived through charges of recruitment I can only say "get over it". To many small schools foster resentment and jealousy because their teachers, administrators, and coaches have settled into a "getting by" mentality. They are threatened by those that work hard and succeed. Shiloh encourages excellence in what ever one pursues. Mike Dwyer works well with the young men in the basketball program to bring out their best. There should only be cheers and no jeers that they work hard and succeed at a sport that they all so obviously love. Good Luck Skyhawks! Remember... even if you are #8... you still did better and almost all the other Class B teams in the state. "

To C-S Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 2:42 PM:

" A true Region V fan shouldnt be saying that Shiloh is going to getlast in state, weird things happen at state, and you should be supportive of the team from your region, hoping that they do the best of their abilities. "

Center-ite wrote on Mar 9, 2007 2:02 PM:

" please note that neither "Center resident" or "CS fan" siad nothing aobut SHiloh recruiting. We know where the problems where with our game, they always give a great game and Cs fan was not being cocky, just said our team did their best. I do not know if other people who made comments about recruiting are form the Center area, but those who did identify themselves from Center DID NOT make those ypes of comments. Good luck Shiloh! "

Wildcat Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 2:00 PM:

" Both teams played their hearts out. Somethings are just ment to happen the way that they did last nigh. I wish good luck to Shiloh at State and I hope you represent Region V well. "

To C-S Fan: wrote on Mar 9, 2007 1:55 PM:

" Center was headed for 8th place also so I wouldn't feel too cocky. "

Someone wrote on Mar 9, 2007 1:40 PM:

" And don't forget they recruited Tanner Friesen when he was 5. He was one heck of a baller as a kindergartener. Congratulations on whichever shiloh recruiter spotted that talent! "

BB fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 1:31 PM:

" Not only did I grow up in a small Class B town, but I also was fortunate enough to play several years there. As an 9th grader I moved to Bismarck and decided the Lord was leading me to attend Shiloh Christian School. I loved Class B - there was nothing like it! There was no recruitment, no basketball perks. All that was there was heart and a great fan support. Both teams last night played their hearts out. Can we ever just leave it at that? Seeing both perspectives, I always looked at Trinity in the same way, but once you are actually in the environment of SHILOH, you see they are no different then the 200 population town. They struggle with enrollment, getting teachers to stay isnt even as easy as you would think. One missed free throw, a rebound that slipped out of your hands - that's all a loss can take sometimes. Good job to both teams - you worked really hard! "

jim wrote on Mar 9, 2007 1:26 PM:

" An 8th place finish at state is a great accomplishment to whichever team takes that award. "

To Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:39 PM:

" People think the same thing about Mandan recruiting. Hard work wins games. "

Dave wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:35 PM:

" I thought the referees did a very good job in both the District 9 and Region 5 tourneys. Obviously the refs will miss a call or two but it usually evens out in the end. "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:32 PM:

" I didn't notice that Center shot 7-20 freethrows. Are you kidding me? 35% is embarrassing. "

Mandan fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:21 PM:

" Congrats, Shiloh! Don't worry about the "recruiting" comments. Every time a team is dominant, people use that as an excuse. Check out ANY Mandan girls basketball article. People need to make excuses to feel better about their loss, let them do that and don't let it get to you. Be proud!!! "

C-S Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:06 PM:

" Congrats to Shiloh on an 8th place finish at State, I know it is early but I just wanted to get that out there. "

Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:03 PM:

" People think that parochial schools recruit. These students choose Christian schools, the schools don't choose them. Look at Shiloh. How many of those boys were recruited? Those sophomores have been playing together since 7th grade. None of them went to high school elsewhere. The doors are open for new students; you don't see students transferring in from other high schools in Bismarck to play class B. Check the enrollment at Shiloh...most people are shocked as to the small size of our high school. Do you want to send your child/athlete to Shiloh? Are you a Christian? If so, come join us, but we aren't going to recruit your child. "

Mr. and Mrs. Bigglesworth wrote on Mar 9, 2007 12:03 PM:

" It's funny how people say Shiloh recruits when over half the starters have been there since kindergarten. Oh wait, I forgot that they recruited Trevor Singer in 4th grade and RJ Miller and Brady Bohl in 7th. They sure do recruit people early, don't they. People give Shiloh kids way to hard of a time. There population in the school is only around 300 kids. Sure, sometimes fans say things they shouldn't, but there humans and everyone is going to do or say something wrong during a basketball game, especially when it's a close one. Why can't the people grow up and just say those kids have incredible talent and they played hard. I think that everyone played well this season and they deserve a pat on the back. "

lake 17 wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:58 AM:

" From what I understand about the players that were missing , the quotation that comes to mind is "NO FOLLOW THE RULES, NO PLAYA THE GAME". Congratulations to the administration for doing what is right. I watched the games and didn't think the reffing was bad at all. Of course, I'm a unbiased fan from the Northeast part of N.D. Seems to me a few ego's were hurt. Congratulations to all the teams in the tournament, it was fun to watch. "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:57 AM:

" It is too bad that the small towns feel that shiloh recruites. Most of the small town kids that do move to shiloh move their so they can be in a better environment. Yes shiloh is located in bismarck, but has an enrollment is less than 200 kids k-12. On the shiloh team they have 2 seniors and 5 sophemores and 1 junior.....how can they recruite? Most of the shiloh bball players love bball and play and unbelieveable amount during the summer. "

BB Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:35 AM:

" If you look at the box score. Shiloh had 19 fouls and made 5 of 9 freethrows. Center had only 13 fouls and made only 7-20 freethrows. So I would say missed free throws had a lot to do with the loss and not the officials. "

A BB Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:18 AM:

" I feel sorry for Hazen, they have a great team and they don't get to go, but Shiloh does. Bummer. "

WD2 wrote on Mar 9, 2007 11:17 AM:

" Sadly the large parochial schools large communities(Bismarck,Dickinson,Fargo, and Minot) are stealing Class B sports from the small schools. Is it their fault? No. It is the fault of the NDHSAA and its antiquated approach in how it runs high school activities in this state. Let's get real. Shiloh has a population base of 75,000+ (Bis-Man)from which draw its students. Most class be schools are lucky to draw on populations of 1,000. Let's change the system. Let's determine one's class by the community they originate. Class A needs more teams. Don't use the schools size. Let's focus on the size of the community in which they are located. Let's give Class B basketball back to the small communities in the state. It's not right that 3 of the 8 state Class B qualifiers come from Class A communitie. NDHAA WAKE UP! "

Center resident wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:31 AM:

" oh can we just quit already!!! Center lost, on a 3 point shot with 5 seconds left, Shiloh won AGAIN!!! Center was in the game they were supposed to be and it just didn't work out, with the game or with the "leading scorer". Some refs are good, some are not, fans take it personally when their team seems to get more calls. Its life! I get tired of hearing both sides of the officials arguement. Maybe some should make a comment about rude cheers coming from the stands? There was alot of that during some games. LET IT GO!!! "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:29 AM:

" Why shouldn't people ask about your "leading scorer"? His actions played a HUGE part in the outcome of the game. "

Official Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:23 AM:

" The officiating was fine. District 9 and Region 5 has some of the best around. Give them a break and some credit for doing a thankless job where idiots in the stands think that they have a right to scream and degrade. It's embarrasing to the athletes on the court. "

To ALL Concerned Fans wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:15 AM:

" I've been involved with basketball my whole life as a player and an official. I love the game and want to be a part of it as long as I can. I guess I'm tired of "Fans" being so misinformed about the game of basketball and this isn't directed to just the person who wrote in but all who think the same way. The sportsmanship HAS deteriorated over the years and it seems that people think that the refs are the problem. I have NEVER been a part of a game where an official has the sportsmanship problem. Fans like this that really don't know the game, probobly have never played the game and certainly never reffed a game cause most of the problems. Officials at that level every year have to take tests, go to rules clinics, officiating camps in the summer, and are voted on their ability by the coaches of that tournament. Officials are more worried about being in the right place to make a call, making the right call, knowing the rules and enforcing them and keeping sportsmanship of the game to it's highest level rather than looking to change the outcome of a game by "picking on" a player or coach. Turnovers, missed/made shots, missed/made free throws, players bad/good plays, players hearts/intensity, defensive/offensive schemes and general basketball stategy determine the outcome of the game. Yes, sometimes a ref even makes a wrong call but one call does not dertemine a game. Why don't you sign up to become a ref and see if you could change the outcome of a game. The one problem of the game is that there has to be one winner and one loser. Good thing about winning and losing is you can still show sportsmanship in both cases. I bet your team lost. Show some sportsmanship! Let me know if you'd like to sign up to ref. "

CS fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 10:15 AM:

" Don't ask about our "leading scorer". we did our best! I do have to agree with some of the officiating during Region 5 and even districts. Some very poor and biased calls for all teams. It is too bad the the rest of the CS team had to pay the price for that and the "leading scorer". "

Dave wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:49 AM:

" Congrats to Coach Sorlie for being named Region 5 Coach of the Year. "

Region Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:31 AM:

" Where was Centers' leading scorer? They needed him "

Concerned Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:30 AM:

" Where was Adam Kuntz and Wyman Martin, no wonder Dakota Oyate won? "

LNI wrote on Mar 9, 2007 8:38 AM:

" Where was Adam Kuntz? There were no stats on him? "

Region V Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 8:19 AM:

" To Center-Stanton Fans: You guys had a great season. To bad it all when up in smoke in the Regional tourney. "

Concerned Fan wrote on Mar 9, 2007 8:16 AM:

" It is unfortunate that officals can determine the outcome of a came. The offical that has a grudge against a team or a player knows 2 or 3 fouls on the right player can change the outcome of the game. Officals need to be held accountable when they abuse their authority to change the outcome of a game. There is always alot of talk about sportmanship of the fans and players, but an offical like this can cause 80% of the poor sportmanship in a game. "

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