Bismarck, North Dakota News

" It deeply troubles me, a young man of 40, that a young man of only 18 (Jesse Balzer), is trying, and sometimes honestly believing, he knows what is right for me to believe. Am I supposed to accept that legalizing marriage bewteen homosexuals on his word? Moral relativism is slippery slope, Jesse. "

" There has been a great number of comments related to the gay marriage letter to the editor. There has been tremendous support on both sides of the issue. In recent posts there has been little new information presented, because of that comments will be suspended unless something truly new is submitted. "

" To Protect Marriage: "Let he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone". I'm sure you'll be first to throw at the head for the kill! "

" SM wrote...:"Marriage is meant for creating new life. Which two homosexual people are incapable of doing. If we let a gay couple marry than that means we are saying that marriage is pointless and a sin, because it is defeating the true purpose of what marriage actually is. " WELL GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! My husband and I cannot have children due to medical reasons, should we have not married then in your eyes? I deserve to have a life partner like you do, and I believe the same should be for anyone who loves. "

" Pete, I'll remember that next time I see you stranded on the side of a rarely traveled road in the middle of nowhere. Hey, your right, this world would be a better place if it were like that. For me anyways. "

" These comments should not continue. Most of this is none of anyone's business unless it involves you. If everyone would care more about their own business and less about other people business the world would be a better place to live. Who you do is your business unless you do them/it in front of others. "

" "Protect Marriage": Why waste all the time and effort obeying his commands, blah blah, yadda yadda, when the only thing you really have to do is believe in Jesus? "Whosoever believeth in him (Jesus) shall not perish but have eternal life." Your god gave everyone a "Get out of Hell free" card when he let the Romans nail his kid to a cross. Now, you can do whatever you want, just so long as you believe in Jesus at some point before you die, and still have eternal life. "

" Dear Protect Marriage, Please quit firing "Bible bombs" in the direction of civilians. Just kidding....they are certainly entertaining...and about as effective as Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Using biblical quotes to support your beliefs vs. anothers is so blatantly contradictory, you should be ashamed...even Pat Robertson knows that, errrrrr....maybe not. Pat, is it you? "

" There are a lot of sources of wisdom in the world. My mother always told us kids "God gave us a brain, it is up to us to use it." While there are a lot of wonderful things in this world, only trouble comes when certain people insist they somehow have a monopoly on truth. Getting back to the topic here, I would say Jesse is using his brain better than most. His comments on same gender marriage and that we should treat gay and lesbian people as human beings have a lot of common sense. "

" Most of the counterpoints this fellow made are not really counterpoints, since they bascially just validate what I was saying...except for a few. Here we go: 1. Cute. Yes, gay people can marry straight people. How witty. I'm sure they'd love to do that. 2. I said "Calling all homophobes." Key word: calling. And then you responded. By definition, you are now a homophobe. If you weren't, you wouldn't have interjected yourself into the equation. Either you are one, or you don't respond to it because it doesn't apply to you. Pick one. 3. Did you just mass-sub in murder for gay sex as if they are somehow comparable? You, sir, have no soul. 4. I never once said there was a population crisis in the U.S. Try the world. That's why I used the word planet. Which there is. Dee-da-dee. 5. Adoption problems have nothing to do with a lack of children to go around. We wouldn't even need to have foster care if that was the case. 6. Yes, I assume the stats will show that kids from a two-parent household fare better. Do the stats then show that children from a male/female household fare better than children from a male/male or female/female household? I would wager that two parents are better than one regardless of gender. 7. Keep trying to follow that Bible and support religion-based-oppression in what is supposed to be a secular government while you tell me not to "force my beliefs" on YOU. Ha. If you can't see the supreme irony in that, may God have mercy on your non-soul. "

" Jesse, I noticed something missing in your last post. You mentioned God loves everybody...correct (For God so loved the World). You mentioned that you should love everybody...correct (Love your neighbor as yourself). However, that is the second greatest commandment. You have one thing left, the greatest commandment, and then you are set. That is, "Love the Lord you God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12) "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world." (1 John 5). From your posts, we can definitely see that you are very bright and that is to be commended. I would like to encourage you to continue to look into God's Word to find your answers. "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith, and in purity." (1 Timothy 4) However, as I previously stated in another post, don't rely on yourself for answers. "Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of the world is foolishness in God's sight." "

" To Jesse, Just wanted to let you know that I wrote the preceding comment "To Jesse". "

" You are right. God loves everybody. The sad, thing is, though, many people don't choose God. He is not going to force His gift of salvation through Christ on us. He wants us to accept His gift because we choose to, not because we're forced to. Yes, He will accept homosexuals, atheists, satanists, etc, who sincerely choose to accept Christ as Lord and Savior, and God is more than willing to help them transform their life, but first they have to let Him. God has give us freewill, so we can either choose Him, or do their own thing. It's really our choice. "

" 1. no argument here, but many I believe oppose gay marriage because of a belief that being gay is immoral. 2. Religion is the moral base for MOST people in this country. To exclude morality from political ideas is impossible but then again maybe it helps you sleep at night. 3. "even rapists and murders have human rights…they can also get married" - gay people have this same right to get married, to the opposite sex. 4. OK 5. See number 1 above. 6. "Calling all homophobes" - now because I don't believe homosexuality is ok, and that's my right, I am now a homophobe? No, just labeling people with negative names in order to push your agenda. Why does my right to voice my opinion have to be threatened? 7. Now replace gays with murderers into your following statement: "Gays pretend to be married. They wear rings. They live together. Many have kids. Some cheat. Some don’t. Some have sex. Some don’t. Some are having sex right now. Probably next door to your house. If you have teenagers, maybe it’s inside your house. If that offends you, too bad. It’s happening. And it s going to keep happening, no matter how wrong you think it is." Sounds kind of dumb doesn't it? 8. Could be, I'm not going to judge, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with their actions. 9. Population crisis in the US? Look at current statistics. People wait years to adopt so you may want to check those statistics also. I have a couple relatives that waited up to 3 years to adopt. 10. That is a completely ridiculous statement on both sides. 11. Check the national statistics on this also. They do show that on average people who are raise by two parents (a mother and father) DO end up better of. As to the rest of the babble most is not far off, but unfortunately thanks to people like you more and more of the bible is thrown out because some need an excuse to do what they want. It also makes it impossible for anyone to practice all they can of the bible without ridicule and bashing from the many like yourself. Speak for yourself when it comes to your beliefs and don't try to push them on me. I am not against gay marriage and will not judge those who are gay, but am sick and tired of those who push it on me and call me racist or a bigot because me views are not the same as theirs. "

" Kent, the bible was written, interpreted and translated by man. The books included in the bible were selected by man. The books excluded from the bible were selected by man. The men in charge of these tasks had a personal agenda and bias towards christianity. To even consider that there is nothing false in this book is a real stretch. Just cuz some guy in a robe tells you it's true, does not mean that it is. I'm sorry you had to find out this way, but people lie; especially when it benefits them to do so. Try to keep that in mind the next time somebody tells you something that makes no sense, or has absolutely no evidence in support of it, and then just expects you to believe "because I said so". "

" Kent, the Bible tells me I should love EVERYBODY. Please don't make me dig up the dictionary definition of everybody. If God does exist, and if he does love me, then He should love everybody else, too. He can't love Christians exclusively. If He loves everybody, then He loves gays, lesbians, satanists, atheists, muslims, jews, catholics, EVERYBODY. If He wants to love me, then He must love everybody. He can't have me without them. "

" A few points to share with my babbling flock. 1. When has marriage ever been the “building block of society?” The Romans has sex with anyone they could, including children. Christianity has not accounted for every civilization, people. 2. Memo to all Christians: Throw your Bible verses out the window. How can people scream for a separation of church and state on one hand while quoting scripture as a means of legislating legally binding relationships? Nobody is saying your church has to marry a gay person just because it’s legal. Churches have the right to discriminate against anyone they want in regards to marriage, and they often do, for a number of reasons. 3. Red Herring alert: We’re not talking about making it legal to be gay here. We’re not even talking about whether it’s right or wrong to have gay marriages. We’re discussing whether it’s FAIR for them to be married. Like it or not, even rapists and murders have human rights…they can also get married. 4. Plus, none of this affects any of you. If Bob and Bob in Mandan get married, how does that make Steve and Dorthy’s marriage any different. It doesn’t. You’re just whining about stuff to whine about stuff. I probably don’t like what goes on in your bedroom, either, but at least I recognize it’s not my place to say whether it’s OK or not. 5. Don’t you religious freaks realize how dangerous is it to YOUR RELIGION to have law governed by scripture? Heck, Christians themselves (see: Catholics and Lutherans) can’t even agree on what the Bible says! So if we formulate law around one single interpretation, first off, we’ll have a helluva time choosing which one to follow, and after we get past that debacle, the dissenters will not just be gays, or Jews, or Muslims, but, perhaps, Pentacostals, Baptists, Methodists and – egad! – Catholics. Then what do you do? Still find something to complain about because it’s not exactly what YOUR church believes? I foresee a vicious cycle here. 6. Calling all homophobes: Basically, denying gay people basic marriage rights is just mean-spirited. Here’s what you need to accept about gay people: Gays pretend to be married. They wear rings. They live together. Many have kids. Some cheat. Some don’t. Some have sex. Some don’t. Some are having sex right now. Probably next door to your house. If you have teenagers, maybe it’s inside your house. If that offends you, too bad. It’s happening. And it s going to keep happening, no matter how wrong you think it is. As far as they’re concerned, they ARE ALREADY married. So, just because you refuse to acknowledge their commitment, that does not mean it does not exist, and therefore all you are doing by denying them the same rights as a male-female partnership is being evil and spiteful. Or maybe you’re just an ostrich. 7. Nobody is going to “turn gay” just because it’s legal to marry man on man. Are you serious? Are you saying many gay people are gritting their teeth and fighting through a straight marriage just so they can have kids, but as soon as gay marriage is legal, they will all start wearing leather chaps, talking with a lisp and hitting on you and all your friends down at Peacock Alley? PLEASE. 8. Gay people are not Jack from “Will & Grace” and they are not the Village People en masse. They are your family, they are your relatives. Seriously, think about it. They probably are. Uh oh. 9. Don’t ever use the stupid population theory. We have a population crisis on this planet anyway. We could use a little thinning out. Plus, we have adoption agencies that are overflowing with orphans left behind by promiscuous STRAIGHT people. Give these kids a loving home, gay or straight. Can’t be worse than an orphanage. 10. Sterile people can’t have kids. Who wants to volunteer to be the person that denies them a marriage license? After all, we really need to save our precious marriages for The Breeders. 11. How many of my friends came from broken homes? Most turned out fie, but not all did. Would they have been better off in a two-person household? Maybe, maybe not. I can’t answer that and I doubt anyone here can either. But do you really think they’ll have it worse coming from a gay household? 12. IT’S A SINNER EPIDEMIC! Questions for all the Fire and Brimstone Buffoons out there: How many of you waited until marriage to lose your virginity? How many of you have had divorces? How many of you have ever cheated on a spouse? How many of you have lived with a member of the opposite sex outside of marriage? How many of you have had inappropriate “relations” with your own body? If you answered “yes” to any of those, then answer me this: How many of cool straight people have disgraced marriage yourself? How many of you do it every day? Hmmm? 13. And now, here’s a passage for YOU: Let he who hath not sinned, cast the first stone. Or something. As many stupid passages as you have denouncing gay people, it’s curious indeed that you don’t list anything about minding your own business, loving your neighbor, and not placing judgment. We’ve all sinned, and last time I checked, all sins were the same in the eyes of God. So… if you do, in fact, consider gayness a sin, explain to me why YOUR rights are iron-clad. 14. Or better yet…suppose they just don’t care about the Bible. Yup, they’re heathens. Can they get married then? No? Why not? Because they’re not Christians, right? And marriage is for people who follow the Bible, right? OK, thanks, glad you said that, because… 15. Well, Jewish people get married. So do Buddhists. And Mormans. And Atheists. And even…shhh…*Satanists.* They all think that at least some part of the Bible is wrong, if not disregarding it altogether. Uh oh! Now what?! 16. MORE FUN WITH THE LITERAL BIBLE: If, according to Leviticus, you can’t have man-on-man sex, and therefore you can’t have man-on-man marriage, then you also can’t shave your beard. Or eat pork. Or touch a football – ever – because touching the skin of a dead animal is a “sin.” Bet you Bible thumpers forgot that one. Oops! Leviticus is a book FULL of BS. Quit picking and choosing. 17. It’s gonna be funny when you bigots are nearing retirement age and have to face the reality of a time when gay marriage rules the earth, and as you get wheeled in front of a TV to sit and zone out for the day, all you see is cable news report after cable news report on how The Gays are ruling the earth. Except, this time, it won’t be completely false. Mwa ha ha ha ha ha! 18. I don’t think Jesse is troubled in fact, I think he might be smarter than most of the people here, and that’s precisely why you all disagree with him so much. An 18 year old with more sense than me?! Couldn’t be! 19. I've yet to hear one single bit of intelligent reasoning against gay marriage that does NOT involve religion. Odd... 20. That's all for now. Go play. "

" To Jesse, You mentioned in your passage that I didn't understand that the Bible can send mixed messages because of the number of people quoting John 3:16. The truth is that people can twist the Bible into saying what they want it to say, not what it actually says. People take the Bible out of context all the time, and that makes it very confusing. I know it's already been quoted but I'm going to quote it again. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." That simply means that if you believe He died on the cross for your sins and welcome Him into your heart, you are saved for all eternity. Just ask Him to forgive you. He loves you. I know this world is not perfect, but He still loves you. I listed some passages earlier that show homosexuality is wrong, but I want you to understand that you are loved by God. I will be praying for you. Keep the communication line open in this blog. I'll continue to look through the blogs. "

" To "BuyYourSalvation" There is no Scripture in the Bible that is false, no matter what Scholars believe or don't believe. "

" To "Protect Marriage": I posted this in the other thread, but it seems to have been brought up in here as well. Titus is one of the epistles known as the pastorals. Scholars who have studied these pastorals do not believe them to be authentic. Therefore, you are quoting false scripture, which I don't think is relevent to this discussion. Please try again. "

" Seems the most reasonable and thoughtful person on this is Jesse. Way to go guy. I suggest people new to this discussion skroll down to Jesse's remarks earlier today. "

" BuyYourSalvation, I think I will follow some more scripture in your case. (Titus 3:9) "

" To "Protect Marriage": Moses led the Israelites guided by a volcanic eruption from the island of Santorini. The fact that this stoning was a direct commandment from god only serves to prove my point. As christians, I can't imagine that you would disobey your god. Therefore, all these blasphemers must be stoned by "all the congregation". Do you know approximately how many members there are in your church's congregation? Need to make sure to bring enough rocks :) And as for your questions: 1. Yes, they should have disobeyed this order. It is silly to kill someone over something so stupid and petty. 2. Yes, I dare. Shame on your god for making silly rules and then expecting people to follow them. Why, if he were real, I'd give him a piece of my mind! "

" Jesse, Thank you for a great letter and a thoughtful response to comments. I applaud your courage, wisdom, and compassion. It is clear you have many great gifts to offer the world. Peace to you. "

" Another good point! Your religion states that this man Jesus "son of god" died for your sins so that you may get into heaven and live happily ever after for spend eternity with your god. So then, regardless of what the bible says about gays, they will still get into heaven because of this Jesus fellow. That sure was a nice thing for him to do, and it seems that we should somehow get the word out about this guy so that others know that god is okay with gays. Maybe if everyone knew that god was okay with it, they would be okay with it too. "

" While Moses was leading the Israelites through the desert, God was dwelling with them on Earth. He led the people in the form of a pillar of smoke during the day and a pillar of fire at night. He gave many rules in order to keep the people "clean" while he was in thier presence. Because of this, he obviously did not want people in his presence blaspheming his Name. One of the other Ten Commandments is "Do not take the Lord's name in vain." The stoning was direct command from God himself on how He, the creator of the universe and author of the Ten Commandments, wanted to handle that situation. Who are we to question God. Should they have disobeyed his order in that situation? Do we dare say shame on God for not following the rules that He made for us? We are nothing in comparison. "

" While I may not necessarily agree with your opinion that marriage is not considered sacred since I think most couples getting married feel at the time of their wedding they are in it for the long haul. I do commend you for having your own values and beliefs, even though many people are ready to jump in and expect you to accept their values as your own. But I also think that the sacredness of that commitment and love can also be experienced by same-sex unions. "

" Leviticus is in the Old Testament; then there was this man named Jesus that died for our sins so that we are no longer stoned but that we have the FREE WILL to choose to sin or not to sin; to be gay or not to be gay; to kill or not to kill......is this making sense to anyone else? Because it is pretty clear to me? "

" To all men ---- Why is it acceptable for 2 or more women to be together and not for 2 men? What is the difference? "

" Gay relations or not. For me I am for traditional marriages but maybe it isn’t for all. As long as the people in your life treat you with respect, are kind and considerate, not abusive in any way, and are beside you and not trying to change you then I don’t care who you do and nor should anyone else. It is your life and who are we to judge each other. There are things in my life that I am sure some people don’t agree with but it is not for others to judge me. We should leave the judging for our maker. "

" Leviticus 24:16: "And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him" I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't remember the last time I saw, let alone participated, a good stoning. Though I am a little confused by this one since I thought god also said "thou shalt not kill". So, which is it? "

" Leviticus, Please provide an example. I can't explain what you are talking about without an example. Thanks. "

" "Hallowed are the children of the Ori." (this mantra is said by the priors, which followed by the next mantra): "Hallowed are we; hallowed are the Ori." "Those who reject the path to enlightenment must be destroyed." "The power and the greatness of the Ori cannot be denied." "Those who seek the path to enlightenment must not be led astray!" "Glorious are the Ori, who lead us to salvation, who did fight the evil that would doom us all to mortal sin. Did they defeat the old spirits and cast them out? And now, with the strength of our will, they do call upon us to prevail against the corruption of all unbelievers." "Fear not the Ori, fear the darkness that would conceal the knowledge of the universe. Believe in the truth of all things, and you too may find the path to enlightenment." "Guide us on the path that we may triumph over the enemy of our salvation and be with you in the end of ends on the planes of enlightenment." "Those who abandon the path are evil." "Blessed are those who walk in unison." "And the people shall deliver unto you the wicked for your divine judgment, where their sins shall be weighed in the balance of all that is just and true." "Life and death, light and darkness, hope and despair. The rift was created, and on that day, the Ori were born." "The hatred of those who strayed from the true path festered and bloomed in the dark corners of the Avernakis to which they have been cast!" "Consumed by this hatred, they poisoned all they touched, bringing death, darkness and despair." "The souls of their victims knew no peace, until the Ori came and whispered to them: 'Sleep, for the end draws near!' And on that day all will rejoice, when the Ori come and lay them low." "Those who follow the path of righteousness shall be raised up high." "Ours is not to question, but to rejoice in their service, for they are perfection." "Priors are beacons on the road to enlightenment." "Pity not the blind man, for he is hindered not by the visions of this world, but rather pity yourselves, for he will see the light before you do." "Those who reach enlightenment shall rejoice with the ori forever." "The book of Origin tell us that enemies of the Ori will show no mercy in their attempt to lead us astray from the true path, likewise we must attack with all the Strength which we have been given." "...and those who are prideful and refuse to bow down shall be laid low and made unto dust." "

" And when you dust off your Bibles, read all of Leviticus. Many of the anti-gay forces just want to take one small part literally, but you can't pick and choose. You will have to obey all of it to the letter or none of it. Some pretty scary stuff is contained within. "

" Jesse, Thanks for writing in here to continue the discussion, but here is where I believe you have gone wrong. You stated, "I question society, I question the Bible, and I even question God himself. I consider this, the individual’s ability to explore his own conscious, to be holier than simply accepting the teachings of an ancient text." Where are you getting your answers to these questions? You think too highly of yourself and are assuming that you know best. Let me make it simple for you. Either you believe that Christ died for you or you don't. Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. If you accept the faith, you accept the teaching. All of it. All scripture is God breathed and useful for correcting and for teaching. This is how God wanted it. He doesn't want his Word to be proven fact. He wants you to make a choice. There is no choice if it is proven. It is Him or the world, and you have to decide. Is my life about this world where I need to make as much money as I can or is it about so much more? Don't assume you know the answer. Assume you are wrong and go from there. He who humbles himself will be exalted. If you or anyone out there has any questions regarding the Christian perspective, I would definitely do my best to explain what I can. "

" The truth shall set you free and by the looks of it here, not many know the truth. Dust off your Bibles....learn a little. "

" Sometimes I surprise myself. Whatever my expectations were, they have been grossly overwhelmed by the multitude of reactions that my July 15, 2006, letter “Nothing sacred about marriage” has garnered. Taken as a whole, this collection of comments can only termed “very, very mixed,” a term that seems to reflect the feelings of today’s society on the issue. This is my reaction to these comments, and will also provide me the opportunity to further elucidate on the subject in a way that space limitations in the Bismarck Tribune will not allow. Before I begin, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the work of Friedrich Nietzsche, but in his 1895 philosophical piece “The Antichrist,” Nietzsche says, “The pathetic thing that grows out of this condition is called faith: in other words, closing one’s eyes upon one’s self once for all, to avoid suffering the sight of incurable falsehood.” Try to keep this in mind as I continue; it seems to apply quite well. The letters begin with some compliments from Dave, who writes, “Unfortunately, the people of Bismarck, and ND in general, are as closed minded as you'll find anywhere.” This is true, but considering some of the comments I have read and will further explore later, it seems that I have underestimated the intelligence of some of the people in this city and in this state. Another writer, Thanks Jesse, writes, “I have been happily married for 17 years. I have never felt "threatened" by any gay person and I have never felt that my marriage is in danger.” That was my point, almost exactly. Still Believing has taken it upon himself to point out how sad it is “…to know that some young people in our community have gone astray and don't see the sacredness that is sworn at the time of wedding vows.” If writing a letter to the city’s newspaper and doing so in a thoughtful and intelligent way is to be considered a disappointment to you, then I am most happy to have gone astray. What’s so wrong with exploring my mind, anyway? I question society, I question the Bible, and I even question God himself. I consider this, the individual’s ability to explore his own conscious, to be holier than simply accepting the teachings of an ancient text. In this context then, yes, I have gone astray. Still Believing also asks what the statistics are for gay and lesbian couples and wonders if these statistics are similar to those of straight couples. Even if I grant you that it is possible that the statistics are equal, this is precisely my point: we are equal. If we as straight couples can’t keep marriage sacred by simply adhering to vows, then a gay or lesbian could do no worse than we do presently. Truthfully, they may do better if given the chance. What then? Could you possibly have made a mistake? And no, I have a father and a mother, both of whom respect every decision I make and every word I should write. Including the letter. I would not object to having two moms or two dads so long as they are as fair and respectful as the parents I have now. Randy brings blatant homophobia into the picture by stating, “I’m straight, and no man will ever get near my backside, but my life isn't focused solely on sex.” Look, I hate to sound crude, but a rape is a rape. It’s a crime, you know, and you’re protected by law against unwanted sexual contact by a man or a woman. No one can get near your backside without your consent, gay or straight. Gays and lesbians understand this. Just because gay men prefer to have sex with a man, that doesn’t mean you or me. They want to have sex with another gay man. I apologize if these words have been too blunt for some, but it needed to be clarified. Terri wrote that, “I hate it when people start throwing around the phrase ‘close minded,’” even though I never used the term. I thought that should be stated. A Retired Revered seems to have grasped my point when he says, “You mention that 50% of all marriages end in divorce, also remember the many men and women are living together and raising children out of wedlock. I still have not had anyone explain to me how gay men and women marring are a threat to traditional heterosexual marriage.” Precisely. Beesh basically accuses me of not opening a bible for some time, and then continues by saying, “As one of the 'adults' fighting for you, speaking for your benefit, and not holding but trying to give you values, it also says in the Bible to go out and teach the world.” Again, you do fight for me, nor speak for my benefit. I wrote this letter to show other people in this state, in this country, and around this world, that North Dakota is not completely against gay marriage, despite what the vast majority of letters to this paper would have you believe. The Tribune needed a dissenting voice, and I provided one. You can teach, but I can still raise my hand and asks questions. Ashley chimes in, noting, “Obviously if your views are that marriage isn't sacred it means your going to not get married, and if your going to be alone and not married then dont try and fight about something you will never experience or believe is important!!" I believe that civil rights for blacks is important, and I’m not black, so I shouldn’t help fight for that cause when it’s needed? And trust me; the similarities between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement are far stronger than you may think. Hint: it involves a lot of fear. SM thinks, “Marriage is meant for creating new life. Which two homosexual people are incapable of doing.” Nowhere is it stated that marriage is meant to create life. No vow exists in which promises are made that a baby will be produced. I believe someone else pointed this out, but an infertile married couple is incapable of having a child, so under this logic, they should not be allowed to marry. Sound ridiculous? Of course. This couple would just adopt a child probably left behind by a broken couple. Protect Marriage ads, “He is an 18 year old kid who says he knows the value of marriage even though he is barely old enough to be married himself and more than likely isn't married.” I know the value of a strong marriage because I was raised in a strong marriage. And where do I get this value that the sanctity of marriage in today’s society has been shattered? From my closest friends, half of whom have parents who are divorced. There’s my influence. I believe they qualify me to comment on the matter of marriage. Kent doesn’t seem to understand that although the Bible has passages that preach against homosexual acts, it seems to send mixed messages judging by the several people who write in quoting John 3:16. The Bible can be manipulated, and done so quite easily. Does anyone remember reading about how slave masters in the South used the Bible to justify slavery, or am I alone in this? Another astute writer points out the questionable validity of the Bible itself. Who can validate for the Bible? Who edited the book? Who copy-edited it? I don’t know, and neither do you. Every passage in the Bible is subject to debate. Finally, mike writes that, “You are a confused and deeply troubled young man, who is wet behind the ears. When you get older we will listen, until then go back to High School.” I can say for certain that I am not confused, nor am I deeply troubled. If you choose not to listen, fine. But I hope that most readers will not disregard my voice simply because I’m young. "

" All the gay and lesbian marriage stuff aside, I have to say I am dismayed that young people think marriage means nothing. Marriage should be sacred. It should be entered into by two people who are committed to each other. I know that marriages don't always work out. People change, situations arise. Unfortunately, the youth of today seem to think of marriage as a temporary situation. It's more about having a fancy party and an expensive dress than working on a lifelong relationship. I think that's really sad. That is causing more "erosion" than any other factor. "

" OK as for these if man on man or girl on girl marriage happen it will end our world because no one will have children. That is a bunch of bull and you know it I am married and am in no way threated but a gay man or woman. The thing that matters in life is happness. And if that is what makes you happy go for it. I will gladly stand by your side with my wife and children and fight for your right to be married. Now on to the bible thumping people. Open your eyes yes is is the greatest story in the world but it is just that a story. YOu have no proof that anything in that book is true other than some money bassed groop of people. Give me 10% of what you make. do you really think that they are going to say yes we are wrong hell no there making lots of money selling people storys. My grandpa told me stories all the time for free where they true or false or even half true don't know amusing to listen to yes. Same goes for that stupid book. My father once told me "Son beleave nothing of what you here and only half of what you see" i hold that true to today and i have not seen any thing that is in that book happen!!! Oh don't get me wrong. Thinking i don't know the book I went to a seventh day adventist collage is huntsville AL studied it alot there beleave none of it. If a man makes another man happy so mote it be. Every one should live by wiccan rule "IF IT HARM NONE. DO AS THY WILL" these people harm none by what they are doing. And have the same right to happyness as anyone else. So whay don't you stay in your closet and keep your mouth shut. Remember as a a child learning "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all". "

" Ladies and Gentlemen, first of all thanks to the young man that wrote this incredible article. You, young man have a great future. When we take parts of the bible and interpret them, we are all open to our own subjectivity or objectivity. I will tell you that I have many friends that are gay couples around the country. I could not find a more wonderful extended family that have supported me through all the bad times and celebrated all my good times with me. I would hope that the "God" that I believe and entrust my life and beyond to is going to judge me on what I truely am, not what "society" feels that I should be. AND why do you all have to always negatively interject into every article that comes out something about sigle parents? What is wrong with being a single parent? Should I have gotten married knowing it would end in divoce? Adding to that statistic of divorce? Should I have terminated my pregnancy because of how some of you old timers and bible thumpers feel about abortion? Maybe I should have given up my child and spent the rest of my life wondering if my child is being abused and neglected by someone else that the "government" has deemed appropriate as a parent. FORGET IT! I work hard to raise my child in a loving and stable environment. Those of you out there that are ready to judge others.........How clean is your doorstep? Drinking, drugs, murder and other capital crimes should be on our list instead of judging those that don't fit into your nice neat little box. Step out and take a look at what your narrow mindedness has caused society to degress into. It's easy for all of us to "anonamously" state our opinions and condemn others. But God did say "in the bible" "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Help your fellow man. Street corner bible thumping, and then turning around and committing adultery, theft and down right ugliness to others is NOT going to get you closer to heaven. Leave my relationship with god between me and him. "

" Mike: you stated "Future, two men can't have a child. If everyone turned gay there would be no future!" Are you saying that if same-sex marriage were legal, everyone would turn gay? Lots of people can't have children. Should we deny them the right to get married as well? "

" People in the future will wonder what all the fuss and desparate roadblocks were about. In the future, most people will have hetero marriages and relationships. Most people are born that way. Those who were born with orientation to the same gender will no longer be forced into hidding and fear and instead will be allowed to be who they are. "

" Future, two men can't have a child. If everyone turned gay there would be no future! "

" Thankyou very much for this article. I had to agree with you 100%. I think people need to decide and make these choices for themselves on what they believe is right and wrong. These people are not out trying to cause trouble for everyone else they are fighting for their own rights and their own cause. Just like a lot of us do and I respect them for standing up for their rights. "

" It takes guts to stick your neck out with all this ugly venom organized and ready to attack at the least mention of being kind to GLBT people. But, know the truth and it will set you free. It may not seem like it now, but love is stronger than hate. Inclusion is stronger than exclusion. With youth like Jesse in Bismarck, we do have a hopeful future after all. Thanks young man. "

" You are a confused and deeply troubled young man, who is wet behind the ears. When you get older we will listen, until then go back to High School. "

" We have a choice here. On one side is fear, angry attitudes towards people you don't understand, imposition of one ridgid religious idea on everyone, and such big efforts to make sure some people (gays and lesbians) do not share their lives together with the same legal and spiritual benefits. On the other side there is hope, acceptance that we are not all the same, and an understanding that while my ideas are very important and I have every right to speak and act on them, I might just learn something from someone else and that we should work to make the world a better place for all of us (not only people like me, but gays, lesbians, and religious people I disagree with, too). Have a glorious Sunday. "

" I'm glad Kent has all the answers and he has seen all that he preaches with his own eyes, or hasn't he and instead is just reading it out of a book? My religion, however, tells me that I will be reincarnated and come back as a cow. I don't know if that is heaven or hell??? I guess since I don't belong to the "right" religion, I will be going to hell regardless of how deeply I hold my beliefs. Next time I'll be sure to choose the correct religion from the start instead of being so foolish. Now someone needs to tell me which is the correct religion out of the thousands on this planet so I'm not one of those "other" fools believing in some nonsense who then end up in hell. Please? Then we need to make it the national religion so everyone in the country will be saved. (By the way is hell hotter than 100 degrees everyday and has no rain for six months??) "

" That god created these people like this, if the bible says gays shouldn't be, then why did god create them? Could it be that god didn't write the bible or need people to say what is right or wrong. Maybe there isn't a need to have a class or status. What if your life is heaven or hell and how you live it is what on earth as it is in heaven meant. The fear of associating oneself with a gay is the problem. Your saying god is wrong. "

" Kent, if the bible is always right, how does one explain dinosaurs? The biblical timeline states that the creation only occurred approx 7000 yrs ago, yet we know the earth to be billions of yrs old. It would seem the bible is not always right. Wjat if gay people in a same-sex marriage believe in Jesus? According to John 3:16 they will be allowed into heaven to sit with god for eternity. If god will allow them to spend their life in a same-sex marriage, why won't you? If it is acceptable to god, it hardly seems that your religious argument holds any water. "

" I commend Jesse for writing this letter. Whether we agree with him or not, here is young person that has actually taken the time to think about an issue that affects him. He has been thoughtful in expressing his ideas. We should encourage young people to express themselves the way Jesse has. Regardless of our views, we can all benefit from at least considering another point of view. "

" I go to a church in Bismarck that marries same gender couples because we believe that the couple's love and support and life commitment is important. It is okay that others disagree with this...as Americans, I thought we could agree to disagree. The problem is some churches insist on forcing their views on everyone else. "

" Real threats to marriage include the erosion of economic security for middle class Americans. Formerly good paying jobs are now low wage, workers must work longer and longer hours for less purchasing power. A minister recently told me that the biggest change he's seen in the past 30 years of marrying couples is that couples have less time together because one spouse works nights and the other days so someone can be home with the kids. Money issues have often been a trouble spot for married couples and that has obviously gotten worse. It leads to breakups. Gays getting married? Not a problem for my marriage. "

" To "the Bible is always right??" Do you know where you are going to spend eternity? You need to accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour. He loves you. We live in a world that is not perfect, but that's not His fault. The only One who is perfect is Christ, and that's who can make us whole. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 14:6 says, "Jesus said to Him, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." If you seriously ask Jesus to forgive you your sins (and we all have them) and come into your heart, He will come into your life and guarantee you a place in Heaven when you pass away. If you don't accept Jesus' gift of salvation, you will go to Hell, where there is constant torment infinitely worse than anything on Earth. Heaven is pure joy and happiness. There won't be any of the trials and tribulations we face here. I just hope you choose to accept Christ before you pass away, but either way you will find that the Bible is right. That's a guarantee. "

" To "To Kent", You may not choose to live your life according to my "imaginary" God, but when you die He will have control on where you spend eternity. Then you will find that He is not "imaginary". "

" On what grounds can you say the bible is right? The only evidence presented by the bible as to its own credibility, is the bible itself. Any person of moderate intelligence can see that is not a very credible reference. Furthermore, it was written hundreds of years of the events occurred, by people who were not eye-witnesses, and who had a personal agenda. Not to mention that much of the original meaning has been lost do to so many translations throughout the years. How can you possibly try to tell people that the bible is always right, when it is so clearly a work of fiction? That would be like me claiming that anyone who got too close to a tornado would be magically transported to OZ just because it said so in a book somewhere. "

" Kent, I think it important to mention that this "bible" written about your imaginary friend "god", on which your "religion" is based, has no bearing on how I choose to live my life. If you choose to pull the proverbial "fanatical christian" wool over your eyes, fine; but don't expect others to do so as well. In closing, jsut because your imaginary friend said homoesexuality is bad, does not mean that it actually is. "

" Sex is meant for creating new people. Marriage is a legal joining of two people. If we were to hold marriage to your strict guidelines, then infertile herterosexuals, as well as those who choose to not have children, would not be allowed to wed. Since, by your definition, marriage is for creating people. "

" Beesh, while you are quoting your religious BS to all of us, I think it important to point out another important teching of YOUR faith. John 3:16-18 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned" So who are you to preach about who can or cannot be married? According to your god, So long as gay individuals believe in Christ, they will be spend eternity by his side in heaven. Make sure you understand the teachings of your religion before you attempt to teach others. "

" The Bible is always right, no matter what is in the constitution. "

" to hmm: you may be right. iran may be the greatest secret in the world. maybe you want to live there for a year and come back to give us uneducated buffoons a report. hopefully you will live more than five minutes inside the iranian border. "

" When are people going to realize that the US constitution and the Bible are not the same document? Though, maybee we should have a theocracy. I hear Iran is a great place! "

" For those who believe there is nothing wrong with homosexual marriages, here is some God-breathed Scripture from the Bible. Romans Chapter 1, Verses 24-26: "Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for thel ie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creater, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the mean, leaving the natural use of a woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." This is God-breathed Scripture so anyone who wants to argue can argue with God about it. "

" If those of us in one man one women marriages would do more to honor marriage, treat it as sacred, work at it when times are tough, then maybe young people would have a different idea. Same gender people who are committed to each other, love each other and want to spend their lives together can only make marriage stronger. "

" I want us all to take a look at what this young man has said. He is an 18 year old kid who says he knows the value of marriage even though he is barely old enough to be married himself and more than likely isn't married. Doesn't anyone think that maybe this view is the reason marriage isn't sacred anymore? By the time kids are old enough to marry they already have it in their mind that it is not important anymore. Where do they get this view? Who or what is their example? How are they supposed to have a succesful marriage when this is thier mindset from the beginning? I disagree with the letter. Marriage is sacred, it is just is not respected as originally intended. I believe this is achieved through a bond between a man and woman with Christ centered in their lives holding them both accountable for their actions toward each other and towards outsiders. The last thing that I would say is that I wish "Still Believing" would apoligize for their very last comment. That was completely unecessary and out of line. As Christians, that is not what we are about. Obviously, none of us are perfect on any side of this issue. "

" Marriage is meant for creating new life. Which two homosexual people are incapable of doing. If we let a gay couple marry than that means we are saying that marriage is pointless and a sin, because it is defeating the true purpose of what marriage actually is. "

" Marriage is thought of as sacred for millions of people around the world, if there is a 5o percent divorce rate that doesnt mean that they didnt at some point believe that marriage is sacred. If your going to fight for homosexual marriages do it the right way if you want to come at it with a weak point, dont come at it at all. Obviously if your views are that marriage isn't sacred it means your going to not get married, and if your going to be alone and not married then dont try and fight about something you will never experience or believe is important!! "

" I would like to ask heterosexuals a question,"when did you choose to be heterosexual"? You didn't choose it, you were born to it. The same way homosexuals were born to it, they don't choose to be "gay", homosexuality chose them. "

" Jesse, if marriage is no longer sacred because of the divorce rate, is parenthood out dated because of abortion? The comparable to gay unions have the exact divorce rate as straights. The partner abuse rate is way higher. If we can't hold God's plan for marriage as sacred (human's screw this up not God), then what can be held sacred. You say, "Claiming that homosexuality is wrong and marriage is under attack, that doesn’t mean the words are taken verbatim from the mouth of God." Jesse, go to you storage unit, open that box of books you have. Dig to the bottom and take out that book with the soft leather cover and gold words "Holy Bible" and blow off the dust. Now go to Genesis 19, Judges 19-21 Sodom and Gomorrah), Leviticus 18:22; 20:13 (abomination of homosexuality),1 Corinthians 6:9 (male prostitutes, Romans 1:26-27 (unnatural sexual relations). It seems to be pretty clear to me. As one of the 'adults' fighting for you, speaking for your benefit, and not holding but trying to give you values, it also says in the Bible to go out and teach the world. Last time I looked you were in this world. I would be derelict if I didn't tell you the truth. My grandfather told me, "Never be so opened minded that all your brains drop out." "

" Great letter Jesse! I am very proud of you. You have a level of maturity that is way beyond many of the citizens of Bismarck/Mandan. You mention that 50% of all marriages end in divorce, also remember the many men and women are living together and raising children out of wedlock. I still have not had anyone explain to me how gay men and women marring are a threat to traditional heterosexual marriage. Yes, the reverend you mentioned does not know the mind of God; no one on this small planet has a toll free telephone number to God, not even the Pope. The best way to try to understand the mind of God is by studying what he/she/it has created and not placing our biases into God’s framework. "

" terri, give your bible a good hard thumping for me. thank you. "

" For more comments on this topic check out a previous letter at http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/07/12/news/opinion/letters/doc44b4505327003641779539.txt "

" It takes guts to stick your neck out in a place like ours and be told if you don't like it to go somewhere else. People who love freedom, democracy, equity, fairness and respect are here. We love it here, even with the closed minded neighbors who write comments telling us to leave. Thanks Jesse. You have my respect. We need young people like you here. Please know that there are many people in Bismarck who want to help the world be a better place and get beyond stopping gay and lesbian people from being who they are. "

" I hate it when people start throwing around the phrase "close minded"...Just because people do not believe in your cause ...we are considered close minded. Well you know what? I am going to be as ridiculous as you and say...Those who do not believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, are in MY mind closed minded. "

" I am sorry that your view of marriage is so negative. I am in a SACRED marriage, where I am loved, valued, respected and cared for by my wonderful husband. You are right in that people don't treat marriage as such, but that doesn't mean it is a lost cause. I know many couples who value their vows that were made in a church before God and their family and friends and they have every intention of keeping those vows SACRED TIL DEATH DO THEY PART. I pray for all people who are thinking of marriage that they will take it seriously. As for North Dakotans being closed minded, I will only choose to live here versus anywhere else in the country. Who is to say "closed minded" is bad and "open minded" is good/right? North Dakota has values and high standards for its people. If you don't like our "close mindedness", please choose to live elsewhere. "

" Marriage is supposed to be sacred. It should be the building block of society, just like DNA is the building block of living creatures. Unfortunately, we're not doing a very good job of maintaining the sanctity of marriage. The divorce rate is appalling. I don't know if it's going to change, but I hope and pray it gets better. "

" It's odd that we define ourselves and others by our sexual preferences. I'm straight, and no man will ever get near my backside, but my life isn't focused solely on sex. I concentrate much of my time on my family and my career. I also have many other interests, and suspect that is the case with most people. Sexual preference is just one very small part of who we are, yet we are defined by it. I believe our society needs to move on. Instead of focusing on salacious details of what happens in the bedroom, we should pay more attention to the larger social and political issues of our day and make a better world for all of us. "

" How sad to know that some young people in our community have gone astray and don't see the sacredness that is sworn at the time of wedding vows. It is true that the divorce rate has sky rocketed. But, what are the statistics for gay and lesbian couples? are they "better" than straight marriages? Or are they just an opportunity to mess up the way of thinking for our society? I have 2 teenagers who both know the importance of Christ in their lives. One of them chose to write a paper at college this last year on 'why are gay/lesbian marriages wrong'. Good for her...some of the next generation still hold true to the WORD! Jesse, did you have 2 mom's or 2 dad's? "

" For writing this letter. The subject of equality for "all" is lost on most. They do not understand that the bill of rights is for all Americans, not just straight Americans. Most North Dakotan's are narrow-minded. I have been happily married for 17 years. I have never felt "threatened" by any gay person and I have never felt that my marriage is in danger. If anything threatens the sanctity of marriage, it is, in my mind, adultry. Bigotry has no place in our society and we must do what we can to counter it at every turn. If your friends or family are gay-bashing, you must speak out against it. We must teach our children the concept of equal protection and as for the church, my God loves everyone. He does not pick and choose who he loves. Everyone has an "EQUAL" chance to be loved by God. "

" Great letter Jesse. Unfortunately the people of Bismarck, and ND in general, are as closed minded as you'll find anywhere. "