Bismarck Tribune - Bismarck News - Hoeven adamant about stopping land transfer

Hoeven adamant about stopping land transfer

MIKE McCLEARY/Tribune Bud Kuhn, left, of the U.S. Army Corp. of Engineers in Garrison, talks with Patti Jo Thomas and Todd Hall before a public comment meeting on land transfer around Lake Sacacawea in Bismarck Monday evening.

Jun 27, 2006 - 06:58:11 CDT

By LAUREN DONOVAN
Bismarck Tribune

North Dakota's governor said the state would likely go to court to prevent the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from transferring 24,000 acres of land it no longer needs around Lake Sakakawea to the Three Affiliated Tribes.

Gov. John Hoeven said the plan isn't fair and could create a confusing map of go and no-go areas around the lake

Hoeven made his comments Monday at the first in a week-long series of public hearings the corps is holding on its draft plan to transfer the land to be held in trust for the reservation.

The transfer would be the most significant change in the land's status since it was acquired by the corps back in the '40s for construction of Garrison Dam and the permanent flood of Lake Sakakawea.

Hoeven said the transfer isn't fair because the majority of land taken inside the reservation boundaries was privately owned, by both tribal and non-tribal members, not by the tribal government. He also said the land, which is above 1,854 feet elevation and no longer needed to operate the dam, is now open for public hunting and fishing and he objected to taking it out of the public domain at the same time the state is working to provide more free hunting.

The governor said he's talked to the Attorney General about the state's options to block the transfer, if it comes to that.

The corps will decide whether to go forward with the draft plan in final form. The corps said it would not transfer another 12,000 acres inside the reservation boundary that is leased for recreation sites and for wildlife management areas.

About 45 people attended the hearing, far fewer than when the plan was originally opened to public discussion a year ago. Tribal chairman Tex Hall made the formal request in 2004, saying it was part of the tribe's longstanding quest to get back land it gave up for the dam.

Paul Danks, who heads up natural resources for the tribes, said he was surprised by the governor's continued resistance, but said he couldn't comment further.

Danks said the tribe's position is that it is pleased that the corps intends to transfer 24,000 acres of grazing land and that it will continue to request the 12,000 acres that were left off the table.

"We think it's great, we're a little disappointed that we didn't get the full 36,000. We will make a request for the remainder,"Danks said..

Todd Hall, a tribal member, said tribal people are also citizens of North Dakota and that issues like access could be worked out.

He said he would "pray" that Hoeven changes his position, since a transfer would return the land to local control.

Dale Frink, state water engineer, said the transfer could complicate water permits from Lake Sakakawea, by adding another level of government to the process.

McLean County State's Attorney Ladd Erickson has taken a lead legal role on the matter.

He said the only way to legally identify land in North Dakota is by the township grid system, or by meets and bounds.

Erickson said the land would have to be surveyed and platted at the time of transfer, rather than described by a simple elevation line, so that counties would know precisely where reservation boundaries begin for taxation purposes.

Erickson also said the transfer is being done under a 1984 Fort Berthold MIneral Restoration Act, which was intended to transfer mineral ownership to the tribes, not land ownership.

Terry Fleck, who represented a statewide Lake Sakakawea friends' group, said it would be easier to agree to the transfer if people knew how the tribe planned to manage the land and had a plan for long-term development.

"When 24,000 acres of land changes hands and is managed differently, it changes the face of North Dakota and it changes it forever," Fleck said.

The hearings continue today at 10 a.m. in Dickinson and at 5 p.m. in Hazen.

(Reach reporter Lauren Donovan at 888-303-5511 or lauren@;westriv.com.)

News > Local

Printer friendly version Hoeven adamant about stopping land transfer

Comments

cw wrote on Jul 7, 2006 1:02 PM:

" its all good "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jul 6, 2006 10:31 AM:

" You got me motivated to get the other comments up. Also, I took over 250 comments from the site regarding the ACOE and the land transfer. Each comment either opposed or supported it. Anyway, here is my most recent comments: http://www.fishingbuddy.com/articles/article.php?aid=1545992 "

holy smokes wrote on Jul 6, 2006 9:56 AM:

" If these lands were promised to be returned, than shame on the Govenor for even suggesting that we don't. "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jul 6, 2006 9:56 AM:

" To save you the digging through over 800 comments I posted a direct link to my initial comments. They can be found here: http://www.fishingbuddy.com/articles/article.php?aid=1545941 My most recent comments along with everyone else's are not on the ACOE site but you can review the old comments by visiting this link: https://www.nwo.usace.army.mil/html/pa/pahm/land/meetings.htm The public comment period does not end until August 22 so I'm guessing the Corp won't have the most recent comments up until sometime after. I'll drop another link from Fishing Buddy when I get it published (my most recent comments, that is). "

To Tim Sandstrom. wrote on Jul 5, 2006 4:11 PM:

" Where exactly on the ACOE website do we find your posts? I've been to http://www.usace.army.mil/ and can't seem to locate any of these opinions you say you've posted there. "

To icitall wrote on Jul 5, 2006 1:27 PM:

" Here is an article that I thikn would be worth your time to read. You make jokes about the average education level of non-native North Dakotans (which I assume means caucasian individuals even though there are no people native to ND), when it seems that averages for indian kids is well below any non-native. http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/06/08/news/local/116039.txt "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jul 5, 2006 10:50 AM:

" This is a response to RU Kidding Me. As I have stated many times in my writing below, I have all my comments submitted to the ACOE and they are open for the review of everyone. Outside of the ACOE transcripts, I also have posted on various web-sites and also had shortened versions published in various newspapers. Stating that I'd say different comments if I stood up in New Town is a joke. I have them in writing and they'll never be changed nor open to people drooling over the ability to pull my comments out of context. Take the time to review my comments when they are posted on the ACOE site. On an ending note, did you attend any meetings? I attended the Bismarck meeting because it was reachable by time and distance. New Town is 146.5 miles from Bismarck. The meeting was on Thursday. You do the math on getting to the meeting scheduled at 6 pm (open comments at 5 pm) when I (and many others) have to work until 5. Change your mind? Since you took a shot at me, I'll take one at you and everyone else posting on this site. Use your REAL NAME and we'll see if the comments change. Mine won't..oh wait, I use my real name already!!! "

Hurting ourselves wrote on Jul 5, 2006 10:30 AM:

" Everytime an opinion is made that doesn't agree with us we pull out the racist card. We loose credability by overuse of this term. We really do not know each other outside of what is written. Each should be able to voice an opinion with out judgment of a few words. This is not enough to judge a whole person. Please take a deap breath. "

jh wrote on Jul 4, 2006 9:26 PM:

" This is to icitall, I am a "native" North Dakotan, meaning that I am white and have lived here all my life. I have spent all my years in Bismarck, and I attended kindergatern all the way up to college with Native Americans. The people that I went to school with were not as selfish and dumb as any of the people on this board are that want the land back. The land is North Dakotan land, it should be public access land and not just fof the indian people. We have made the lake great for fishing and recreation and it should be in the hands of the Game and Fish dept. It would be selfish and dumb to do otherwise. "

icitall wrote on Jul 3, 2006 8:47 PM:

" To jh: What is the education level of an "average" non-native North Dakotan? 9th grade perhaps? Just go back and lay with your sheep, they must be lonely for you by now. What it take you, an hour to think of something as simplistic as your meager statement? It did not even fit into the context of what I had said. (context is the meaning of what the comments were about) "

Dawes Act wrote on Jul 3, 2006 9:38 AM:

" Was an attempt to make them property owners and free them from their dependency on the government along with giving them citizenship similar to the Homestead Act. This would have democratized the reservation giving them self determination but 120 years later the reservations are still being ruled by a socialist form of governemnt. "

A Brief History Lesson... wrote on Jul 3, 2006 8:57 AM:

" Senator Dawes was well meaning when he wrote the General Allotment Act (Dawes Act). It was designed to aid in assimilating the indians into American society. However, in hind-sight the act is seen as an enormous failure. Then in 1934 the Indian Reorganization Act was passed prohibiting the allotment of lands (which was one of the main areas of contention of the Dawes Act), returning some of the land lost to the Dawes Act, and aiding in establishing self-governement among tribes. Furthermore, the gov't. invested in infrastructure development, health care, and education on the reservations. And finally, over 2 million acres of land were returned to the tribes. So while the Dawes Act was a tremendous failure, efforts have been made towards correcting the problems caused by the Dawes Act. "

waronracism wrote on Jul 3, 2006 7:58 AM:

" We also want the land back that is no longer used by farmers and ranchers who acquired their land through the Dawes Act. If you don't know what that is that is probably the problem. We have a cultural gap and people don't have enough info to see where we are coming from. "

jh wrote on Jun 30, 2006 10:40 PM:

" What "a wrote" said was it's over and done with. And I can't agree more. an't everybody agree that it is North Dakota land--we could drain the lake via a pipeline to the ocean and then sell the land back to the Native Americans for the same price that we paid them for plus the cost of inflation, plus the estimated insurance loss costs of estimated flood damage to property, plus an estimated loss of life figure, and the list goes on and on--don't you get it we are all Americans!!! Read my earlier posts and look what I wrote--Times were different back then, there was a war between two different races, just like in Rome back in the day one nation won--but you know what Rome didn't pay back money to the people they conquered--the thing today is we are all Americans--and unless you were alive back in the days when this happened "the late 1800's" then this should be a simple solution. Maybe we should all start paying the Black people retributions, Indians, Whites, and hispanics included. "

Pro land transfer wrote on Jun 30, 2006 7:35 PM:

" Response to 'a' .... 'a' wrote: "not ALL white people were involved with stealing of the land." Wrong! You are involved because you still benefit from it, today. If there were zelch European invasions on Native American homelands, you would not be residing in what you people call "North Dakota." And the millions of dollars lost you keep whining about, that is between white citizen's of North Dakota and the federal government; not the tribe's. The federal government were the intial perpetrator's who got ALL the freebie's. Hit them up for money lost. Native American’s are simply tired of white people showing the same old ignorance, this continued blatant dismissal of historical facts. Reality is, if you were truly just and fair and humane as you claim towards Native American's, you would wholly support the land transfer (returning Indian land’s). Disagree as usual? Take up the matter with your government. Let them compensate you for your monetary loss'. Simple as that. "

a wrote on Jun 30, 2006 2:05 PM:

" This kind of goes with the "Helping Indian Business" posts also----I think us "white" people understand that not ALL Native American's get checks every month, not ALL Native Americans live on the rez and don't have to pay some taxes, and not ALL Native Americans live on government handouts, --but some do, and so do some white people, some black people and some hispanic people, ect., ect. What I dont feel is understood is that not ALL white people were involved with "stealing" of the land, not ALL white people are ignorant to what happened years and years ago, and not ALL white people's ancestors were involved with the tragic events that took place to the Native American people, some of our ancestors settled here after. I just feel that because I am white that no matter what I say I will always be looked at as a horrible person because of what the white people did all thoes years ago. We realize now that it wasn't right, and so many innocent people died, and I'm not saying "Just get over it" because I know that that isn't possible, but we have payed Millions for the land and there is no undoing what happened with All of our ancestors. That may be why Native Americans always hear the White people make the comment "What more do they want" or "What more could we do"-it's because after spending MILLIONS on this land we dont feel we should have to just hand it back, and also because there is no undoing what has been done to the Native American ancestors. Now I know I'll get all sorts of posts on how I'm so racist, ignorant and all kinds of other comments, but no matter what our nationality or where ANY of us live, we all have the right to our own opinions--And this was just mine. "

What more do they want? wrote on Jun 30, 2006 9:31 AM:

" Interesting comments. In asking different people their views on this topic. One lady said it pretty simple. "They've been saying for years that they were going to give us this land back." "Afterall, this land belonged to them(TAT and others, I can remember (deceased TAT elder) always talking about the return of the lands and how they(Army Corp of Engineers) said that they would return the land after they found no use for it." Something to think about. Which makes me think, how often is one's word discarded today in the mainstream culture? In our culture, when one says or speaks words. The words that one speaks, life is breathed into them. I could elaborate further, but due to the lack of respect and understanding throughout these comments, my educating you about our culture will not be appreciated. Words are powerful. If you say you are going to do something, you must follow through with it, follow your word. Or make your word Honorable. "

Hawks Blood wrote on Jun 30, 2006 9:20 AM:

" This in response to, Paid them enough's comments to R U Kidding Me. R u kidding me, Paid them enough?! Let's be real here and let's keep it simple. That's good that you are getting an education, however, it's a damn shame to hear you speak those words. I realize everyone is entitled to their opinion. Let's play devils advocate here. You ask how long does the gov't have to pay restitution to this tribe or any tribe for that matter. You say, paid them enough. Do you know that OUR ANCESTORS already paid for this land? If you don't know what I'm talking about, then YOU should do some soul searching and YOU figure out your identity. "

To Pro Land Transfer wrote on Jun 30, 2006 8:58 AM:

" And will the tribes be repaying the $161.6 million that has been given to them for those lands? If this is merely a misunderstanding, perhaps you could take the time to explain to us how land transfers work when in pertains to indigenous people. From this thread, it sounds like we pay you 4.5-7.5 times the value of the land, and then merely GIVE it back to you. "

Pro land transfer wrote on Jun 29, 2006 9:34 PM:

" As always, white people continue to believe tribes receive some sort of unfair advantage through recognition of land transfers and/or land returned. Unfortunately, all this stems from a misunderstanding of how land transfers work, especially when it pertains to indigenous peoples. I’ve said it many, many times, Indian's do NOT get anything for free. Free is what white people gave to themselves by way of theft of Indian lands and wrongful death of our peoples. I've also always said that if you want your government to renege on its terms of returning our lands, then I'm afraid we'll have to do the same. We demand ALL our lands back. It's outrageous that you white people have a history of unwilling to let go in fear of losing their grand prize, which is the conquered Indians. It's all white hype. The decision to transfer land back to Indian ownership has never been made lightly. The tribes will be moving forward. It was a major transgression that this all started when our forefather’s were forced to signed away our rights to our ancestral lands in the 1800s, the U.S. in exchange obtained title to those lands, water and other resources. Now, we are very rightfully asking for a small portion of the land loss's returned. North Dakota citizens honestly needs to take a huge shift in their attitudes. "

Pulizer Material wrote on Jun 29, 2006 9:10 PM:

" I think the Bismarck Tribune should be commended for giving North Dakotan's the opportunity to truely demonstrate that regardless of what ever anyone states - racism is alive and well in our pristine little state. All one has to do is review three of the comment threads the tribune has started on this web page. Proof is in the Trib! Certainly, a Pulizer is in order! "

withheld wrote on Jun 29, 2006 4:14 PM:

" Fire Water? "

WTF?? wrote on Jun 29, 2006 2:11 PM:

" The 2000 Census showed less than 4000 residents on the Fort Berthold reservation. What could that few people have spent 161,600,000?? "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 29, 2006 1:16 PM:

" Tim, why don't you go to the New Town Meeting this evening and say all of this. Then we'll see if you say the same stuff in front of everyone. "

To Enrolled Member of the Three Afilliated Tribes wrote on Jun 29, 2006 1:16 PM:

" "These ...white people steal everything from us" --Just so you know, neither I, my parents, my grandparent, great-grandparents and so on have ever stolen anything from you or the tribes! The land was paid for again and again. Do you just want all the white people to just pack up and leave the state for you? Well, I'm sorry, but it's not going to happen. Do you really think no one else would have come to settle on this land by now. I do feel bad about what happened to the Native American people, but that was YEARS ago and we have appologised and repaid for the land. I understand there is nothing that can repay for the lives lost, but there is no taking back what happened back then which is why we all should look at what can be done now and for the future. Thousands of people have moved here since then that have nothing to do with what happened back then. We should not all be looked at as horrible people because something that happened over 100 yrs ago. "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jun 29, 2006 10:30 AM:

" Another factual statistic is besides the 12.6 million and relocation assistance the TAT was given an additional $149,000,000 (million) which equates to $161,600,000 (million). This number doesn't include other additional compensation such as the Mineral Restoration Act. It has been proven the TAT has been paid 4.5 to 7.5 times the actual value of the land used for the Garrison Project. "

To Enrolled Member of the Three Affiliated Tribes wrote on Jun 29, 2006 9:34 AM:

" Already yours? The land was purchased for 5.1 million in 1948. the tribe was later awarded an additional 7.5 million. That was 12.6 million dollars to cover the value of the land and money for relocation and reconstruction. Are the three affiliated tribes prepared to buy the land back, or just looking for a handout? "

Enrolled Member of the Three Affiliated Tribes wrote on Jun 29, 2006 8:50 AM:

" I'm writing in response to Sold? Owned? comment...Why buy something back that was already ours? These ...white people steal everything from us, I trust in our Tribal Chairman, Tex G. Hall, to get what needs to be done, done. And as a matter of fact, the North Dakota flag is shown next to our MHA Nation flag and the stars and stripes. "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jun 29, 2006 8:21 AM:

" I'm sorry but if we continue to play the historical trauma game I can add my own story. In late 1800's and the early 1900's my great grandfather homesteaded along the shores of Lake Sakakawea. There he lived in harmony with his Native American friends whom enjoyed the same river bottom lands. When the talk of flood came he was forced to change his lifestyle forever losing valuable acres to the climbing waters that would become known as Lake Sakakawea. Then, in the 1970's a court case moved the Fort Berthold Reservation line engulfing his land and his neighbor's land including the city of New Town. Once again, another sweeping change occured to him and his immediate family. Did he and his family panic and give up on life, heck no! Since then, my family has lived in New Town and has put four children (proudly I might add) through New Town High School. Today, my parents still reside in New Town and as I said, I return almost weekly. Furthermore, I defend New Town and its citizens just like any proud descendant would. With all that said, the flood HAS NOT AFFECTED ME. I will tell you now that since my great grandfather a second generation has begun and the years leading up to 1970 have allowed plenty of time for people to move forward. This is the same for anyone younger than 90 to 100 years old. In fact, as someone listed earlier, we now enjoy many benefits from the lake and will continue to do so. Sure, if you want to play the ridiculous game of trying to link a fading indirect link to "historical trauma" you can. But I warn you, it is not a tool that should be used to build progress. The fact is, the flood happened. This sort of act has happened in many areas of the United States and the world for that matter. Such things are necessary to ensure the betterment of society as a whole. In doing so, some must sacrifice and they did just that in the 1950's. As I said earlier, generations have separated the historical trauma from today's generations. We've moved on and need to make current decisions based on current times because the fact is the ACOE land in question has been opened up to all (the betterment of society) allowing EVERYONE to enjoy it. Turning it over (especially without due process) is a grave mistake. Again, I do not support the land transfer. It has nothing to do with race, historical trauma, etc. It has to do with today's world and that's how we must make decisions. My great grandfather lost a bit of his life but he moved on and created my family. For that I greatly cherish his courage. I will also cherish OUR GENERATIONS courage in making the RIGHT decision. Oh and yes, attend the meeting and let your voice be heard but I warn you, emotional statements will not be taken as seriously as factual documented statements...or at least they shouldn't. If I can make it, it'll be the second meeting I've attended. Also, if you'd like to see my statements please check the ACOE web-site. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 4:30 PM:

" Yep Yep! I second that motion. Meeting adjourned! Now go enjoy some of that recreation along the river, on this hot day! :) LOL "

Indigenous wrote on Jun 28, 2006 4:28 PM:

" If we want to know how the tribal members really feel, maybe we should take a trip up to Fort Berthold. Gov. Hoeven's people will be holding a meeting in New Town, tomorrow evening. Ask your teacher to let you go, should be good! "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 4:19 PM:

" Holey! I will say that I respect Tim Sandstrom's comments, and do apologize if I offended you or called you racist. By my typing Racism = Ignorance, that phrase was referring to the comments first posted on this forum. Those comments I did not appreciate, but maybe I should as they can help me grow as a person in further tolerating comments like that. Yes, I too agree, that we must move forward. This discussion also shows that not all Native American's think alike :) Having the land given to all people sounds good too. But, have you heard the elders cry from Fort Berthold? Have you? I've attended meetings before where elder's gave their testimony re:garrison dam and the flood. It may be good to open it up for all people. But please remember or try to have empathy for those who lost a great deal from the flood. Please do some research on Historical Trauma. "

Tim Sandstrom wrote on Jun 28, 2006 3:34 PM:

" I've been reading through most of these messages while cringing as a I go. Paid enough, I am in a similar position where I spent my greatest years of my life on Fort Berthold (grew up there). In fact, I go back almost every single weekend to enjoy the community and other various things it has to offer. With that said, I do oppose the transfer for reasons very similar to you. In opposing the transfer, I've been labeled a racist and it did hurt me to have people say that. Right away, it hurt but I chuckle in the end because when I see Todd Hall above I think of all the good times I had in high school with his brother Casey. Furthermore, all the good times I had with several other Native American friends throughout the years and years to come. They were/are good people and I trust they see me as a good friend and surely not as a racist. I'm sure they may have different opinions on the transfer but I bet they at least listen to the logical questions at hand. Perhaps more importantly, my opinions are publically available at the ACOE web-site, other web-sites and have been published in other publications. I'm not afraid to voice my opinion because I do so (or try my hardest) to do so in a constructive way. They are absent of a lot of the whacko emotional rants because emotion is the worst progress killer in the world. Like you said Paid Enough, we have to make the right decisions NOW and that'll ensure future wrong decisions never happen again, allowing us to move forward. Take care all. Oh and everyone keep bangin' away but think before you type! People are watching and although you hide behind a bogus name, you can still be judged through different means...words of one, can speak for a group. Remember that. "

Paid them enough wrote on Jun 28, 2006 3:06 PM:

" In response to R U Kidding Me 11:47 am, I am educated, in fact I graduated with honors from United Tribes Technical College. All of the comments I made were based on discussions I have had with students in my classes, Native and non-native people. These were not only an expression of mine, but of many. I am not a racist, nor do I hate the Native American people. I work with, have gone to school with and have neighbors that are from several different tribes across the United States and Canada, in fact I am part Native American myself. The point I was trying to make is that we need to move forward. Everyone makes mistakes, but how long does a person, or government need to keep paying restitution? The governement paid the individuals or the tribe for the land around Lake Sakakawea, I feel that this land is now part of North Dakota and should be kept available for all, for free. Why should it be given back to these individuals or groups of people for free? If they want it that bad, they should pay for it at todays market prices. But where would they get the money??? Your educated, RU Kidding me, figure it out yourself. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:56 PM:

" Whatever makes both of you feel better. Unlike you, I can't afford to sit at a computer all day. Gotta run! "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:51 PM:

" What's your point? Are trying to get me to go down to your level of debate? I'm young (late twenties) and I'm not going to sit and let the 1800's depict what happens to me in the 2000's. Are you oblivious of commons sense? Geez man, I think you should stop wasting your time and spend it answering Big Picture's questions. Or at least think about what you are responding too. And genocide as you are calling it? Why do you think the government back two hundred years ago made reservations. Duh, they didn't want war to end in genocide. Anyway, I'm tired of this conversation. You nor anyone else provides anything worth responding too. There are several questions sitting out there for you that are meaningful in this discussion. Thank God there are a few like Paul Danks and Tex Hall that try to make some attempts at answering the meaningful questions. They do have a long way to go and so does the ACOE but at least they don't have you in their campaign drowning their strive to progress. "

Was it genocide? wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:50 PM:

" It is believed that 75-90% of indian deaths following European settlement were the result highly contagious diseases which indian immune systems were incapable of fighting off. Diseases such as measles, influenza, whooping cough, diphtheria, typhus, bubonic plague, cholera, scarlet fever, and syphilis. I wouldn't call it genocide, I would call it an epidemic. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:42 PM:

" *Round of Applause* Big Picture, must have read Coyote Warrior! Good Job! That's what I like to see! "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:38 PM:

" Oh Boy writes, "However, bad decisions cannot and in this case (the land transfer) they will not be able to be reversed. As an educated person, you must understand that?" Oh Boy is all I can say! lol! You are truly something. To tell a Native American, "that bad decisions cannot and in this case (the land transfer) they will not be able to be REVERSED. As an educated person, you must understand that?" To ask me if I can understand that, you truly made yourself sound silly. *R U KIDDING ME!* Goodness, Goodness! My point exactly. You have no idea. You think you know, but you don't. Trying to tell me that decisions can't be reversed. No @#$! Your talking to a descendant of, a survivor of GENOCIDE. And you want to ask if I understand that bad decisions are IRREVERSIBLE? DO U REALLY KNOW? "

It's in the past wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:33 PM:

" WarOnRacism you are right, we did not defeat you; because neither you nor I were born yet. If it was such a bad deal, perhaps your tribal representatives should not have agreed to it. If you must place the blame on someone I think it resides squarely on the shoulders of those who signed the treaty. "

Indigenous wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:32 PM:

" Well this is certainly a grand discussion. I believe R U Kidding Me, has made valid points. There's no need to pick on him, know that you know he went to high school in the 90's :) Fair enough, issues have been raised from both ends of the spectrum.. Question is, now what are we going to do about this. Are we going to continue to go in circles debating this issue? Continuing to stay within each of our own comfort zones? I would like to challenge all of the unique writers on this site. Is it possible, for those who are interested, to get together, over coffee and a treat, perhaps at Barnes & Noble. To share each other's story and to bridge our thoughts together. Why not make something positive out of this. You all are taking the time to make your points heard on this forum. Why not try to come together, to help educate each other. So that we can build or enhance a brighter community for Bismarck, ND? What are we going to do to help this? Rather than contributing to the problem, why not be a part of a TEAM that can help solve the problem. Meaning, all of these issues. I may get misunderstand in saying what I just did. But feel free to ask questions. But please, let's try to move in a Positive direction. What can we do to make a Positive difference. Let's not take two steps back, but move forward in a good way. And yes, we do need to acknowlege the past. Please research Historical Trauma. The local Native American Training Institute does an excellent workshop. :) Have a Good Day! ~It's a Good Day to be INDIGENOUS!~ "

waronracism wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:23 PM:

" Don't kid yourself, you did not defeat us, you made us sign treaties because like Iraq you wanted to quit. Then you cheated us out of our land. You will also put their land in trust and cheat them out of their oil. "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:18 PM:

" RU, I think Big Picture has some interesting questions. As for your words, we all understand the past in it's emotion sense. That's the one bad thing (or maybe its a good thing) about emotion...that is, it can be dealt with. However, bad decisions cannot and in this case (the land transfer) they will not be able to be reversed. As an educated person, you must understand that? "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:18 PM:

" That's not surprising, WOW. Anyhow. I don't understand your last statement. Care to expand or elaborate for the rest of us? Childish, lol, that's so hilarious. And getting educated, lol, if you only knew. Funny. Thanks. "

Big Picture wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:16 PM:

" RU, Simple questions: 1. Do you see it fair the orginal landowners do not get their land back, instead the TAT gets it and has no intentions of compensating justly. 2: Do you see it fair that the ACOE also "hinted" when signing the dotted lines of 395,000 acres off the reservation, that they'd get land back if deemed excess but are not getting anything nor probably ever will. 3: Have you done your homework in defining what excess means. Do you know what the project purposes of the Garrison Dam are? 4: Have you knowledge of what Raymond Cross has done for the Native Americans? He has bent the treaties of almost 200 years old into current terms which is ridiculous considering the way of life back then and the understanding of where life is going. Using treaties of 200 years old written with undeducated people goes as far as I can throw a stone. Again, I challenge you to tell me what fair in today's terms are. Start by answering my questions and please provide more than just opinion. When you give an answer, I'll provide my researched and tracable answers. Once again, Tag...Yur It! "

WOW wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:15 PM:

" R U Kidding Me, have you done your homework yet. I'm still waiting to see if you have done your research on wars throughout history in Europe, China, and Africa and if you have found any current reservations. "

WOW wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:09 PM:

" Good post Big Picture, my exact thoughts. As to "R U Kidding Me" you may want to consider an education yourself. Your arguments are childish and seem to lack the ability to understand what is written. You can call out specific instances but his reference was to the people as a whole. The teaching of young Native Americans that it's the white man’s fault for their misfortune is detrimental to the society. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:05 PM:

" Until you truly, truly understand what the Indigenous People went through. Your idea of FAIR may be different. Of course if I was you, maybe I would think the aforementioned propaganda in which you speak of, would be fair. Yes it is 2006 and we must deal with current issues. But in order to truly understand where we are heading to, where we are going, in order to move into the future, we must know and acknowledge the Past, which is History. So that, we do not make the same mistakes. Don't you think? "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 2:02 PM:

" Big Picture, no your statement did not anger me. It did however raise awareness. All I can do is pity you and the rest who think like you. Have you not seen and read about all of the countless treaties relinquished and broken between the "Sovereign Nations" you speak of. ???? Can you honestly say the "War" was a fair one? My goodness! When they plotted to kill the tribes off in more ways than one. Spreading disease through blankets that they gave the tribes. I could go on and on. Yes, please do some more research. We all know there are two sides to every story. When I was in high school, in the 90's, the history books mentioned very little of the Indigenous people. Only that they were conquered in war. Hmm. "

Big Picture wrote on Jun 28, 2006 12:46 PM:

" I know this will make people mad but we can't continue to think the land belonged to the Indigenous People and it should be that way today. The cold hard fact is the Native Americans were defeated in war. In defeat, they still were given given reservations. These reservations allowed various tribes the ability to live as a "sovereign nation" but the lands included in such a nation is held in trust (soerveign by definition can definitely be disputed but that's for another day!). Lands held in trust is; of course, for the defense of foreign interest and provides the U.S. the ability to help defend lands if a war should threaten the land. Anyway, the point is the lands shifted hands hundreds of years ago. In that meantime there has been endless laws enacted giving various compensation, etc to the tribes. In doing so, the U.S. Government (within reason) did show good nature to the tribes. If you take the time and read through the countless laws it can clearly be seen. In regards to the land transfer, it is something entirely different in that compensation was done so many times. Furthermore, the laws and regulations (then and today) have taken shape with fairness and common sense law of the 20th and 21st century. It is time to STOP using the foregone past to decide CURRENT decisions. The minute we do that, the minute FAIR progress will be made. "

withheld wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:53 AM:

" I was at this meeting in Bismarck. From my observation, the non Indians that spoke, was mostly talking about recreation, gaming, fish, wildlife, hunting. Which means "gimmie more money". Why give land back the the Native Americans when it is of no use to anyone in this day and age, but may be worth something after all of us are dead and buried. This is when the grass grows back. Another thing brought up was the hardship it will bring to everyone, "meaning white people". Did the White men think of all the hardships the flooding of rich lands and wildlife and means of economy that was distroyed for the Native American and Non Indians that owned the land at that time. No they did not, instead they took advantage of the Native Americans because they were torn between not wanting and wanting the Garrison Damn, so the Corp of Engineers, took advantage of the Native American weaknesses and promised them, free hospital, which TAT does not have, free electricity, which the TAT does not have, so where does this all add up to, in my opinion give not only the 24,ooo acres, but all that was taken from every land owner at that time all the land that is no longer under what and the land that is under water and give it all back to the land owners decendance and let them decide what they want to do with all of this. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:47 AM:

" In response to "PAID THEM ENOUGH"'s wonderful comments. DO you KNOW how the Indigenous people, the one's the refer to as Native American's, do you really know how they as a people have moved forward in more ways than one? Do you? Or are you simply making an assumption? Is your statement based on a prejudice that you have? Or merely as stereotype of Native Americans? There are plenty of Native American's out there who are successful Business entreprenuers, Successful Doctors, Successful Lawyers, Successful Teachers, the list goes on and on. So many hold Master's degree's and PhD's. It is truly sad to see these kinds of comments in today's day and age. Truly Sad. Get educated. People who are not educated or aware of other's culture or other's of color period, have a fear. Fear because they do not know. This fear leads to Prejudice and Racism. Please go get educated!! "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:41 AM:

" Also, my comments of ignorance = racism is pertaining to those commenting on here, check it. Ie: Native's saying GIMME GIMME GIMME. Please! And yes, I stand behind tall behind my comments, that Racism breeds Ignorance! and vice versa! Saying one won't argue with stupid, wow, how low can you go, but it doesn't surprise me. Some of the "educated", I'm truly KIDDING when I say that, referring to the ignorant, yes, ignorant comments on here, not all, but some of them. It is sad though. That people still think this way. Yes times are changing and for the ignorant responders, not all, it would be nice if we all acknowledged the past and LEARNED from it. RESPECT one another. Some of the comments on here, certainly showed no signs of RESPECT for the NATIVE PEOPLE, The Indigenous PEOPLE. Yes we are all human beings alike. "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:37 AM:

" Hey moderator I posted the comment dated June 28, 2006 10:54 AM I meant to write it TO RU Kidding me. Sorry! "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:18 AM:

" In response to RU Kidding Me's post, I can tell you that YES THE FLOOD HAS AFFECTED ME. Who are you to say, that it hasn't? "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 11:15 AM:

" I was simlply trying to make a point, thank you for correcting me. See how easy that is to do. Admitting if you are wrong or made a mistake. Something some are lacking there of. Acknowledging the past, will do wonders. The land belonged to the Indigenous People of this country and all others for that matter. It would be nice to live in a harmonious place, where other's acknowledged the past, and tried to make amends for it. Acknowledging the past, learning from our history, is PREVENTION. "

RU Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 10:54 AM:

" Bottom line is in order to get to an answer we (Whites, Native Americans, Enrolled Members, Non-Enrolled Members) need to have the guts to have the conversation. Sure, things no one feels comfortable talking about will arise but if we don't have the conversation logical decisions can't be made. Furthermore, dwelling on the past via emotion isn't the way to make approrpiate decisions. Like you said, it's 2006 and the flooding of old hasn't affected me nor you one bit. In fact, it's provided many things including a gigantic recreation industry, very cheap electricity, reliable flood control, an enviornmental haven, very affordable grazing, managed lands for weeds and errosion, reliable irrigation capabilities, awesome locations for casinos, a stepping stone for celebration of the Lewis & Clark Expedition (tourist dollars), and the list goes on. These are ALL ENJOYED BY NATIVE AND NON-NATIVE people. Changing the lands ownership can and ultimately will affect each instance. I think you need to understand this land transfer isn't necessarily opposed by me in whole. However, it is opposed by me because right now we have basically NO documented and legally binded research. Entering into agreements with those requisites is not sound decision making. Like I said above, if we are afraid to have the discussion then we are afraid of the answers associated. Right now, the ACOE and TAT don't want to have the discussion. Instead, they want to offer opinions or emotional based rants. That is a clear cut sign they are afraid of the FACTUAL answers associated with the big question of whether this land transfer is feasible or not [P-e-r-i-o-d] "

WOW wrote on Jun 28, 2006 10:51 AM:

" This is to R U Kidding Me - You may want to rethink a few of your comments. You are so condescending, but yet you are the one that needs to do some research. Your statement of "If you go to China, you see the Chinese people. You go to Spain, you see the Spaniards. Africa, Africans". Do a little history research and see how many wars there were over land in those areas. Then let me know how many reservations you find. Unfortunately every government becomes corrupt no matter what racial base. "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 10:32 AM:

" Every single sentence I wrote is fact. Check it via the New Town News, ND Department of Tourism, Transcrips of past ACOE meetings, transcripts from Tex Hall's own statements, statements from Paul Danks, exerpts taken from the book Coyote Warrior, detailed paragraphs taken from treaties and documented laws dealing with past land transfers (including the FBMRA), county land recorders, and letter from Larry Janis, etc. It baffles me that I've provided factual information and I'm attacked as a racist. No where, and I repeat NO WHERE in my statements am I attacking a race. In fact, the opposite is true, I'm looking out for all involved! I'm greatly offended as my writing isn't baised at all. It's based on logic and reason. You say igonorance = racist. Well, I say common sense = logic and reason. I'm sorry but can't argue with stupid. Tag...yur it. "

Just clearing this up... wrote on Jun 28, 2006 10:30 AM:

" R U Kidding Me: You stated "Here's a thought for you. Native American. Native to America." native Americans are not native to America, but actually are descendants of early humans that migrated across Beringia during the Pleistocene era approx. 20,000 and 14,000 years ago. "

R U Kidding Me wrote on Jun 28, 2006 9:25 AM:

" Wow, unbelievable. That's all I can think of when I read all of the racist, no let me re-phrase that, ignorant, comments on here. Racism = Ignorance As for "all knowings" comments, Oh Boy, is exactly what I thought, when I read your comments. Maybe you should try going for a walk or getting some fresh air. Sounds to me, like you have more issues going on. Some major hating. No positivity what so ever. Myself, I'm an Optimist. Let's keep it simple in here people. Bottomline, this land being returned to the MHA Nation, for those who don't know, and I'll make an educated guess, by the ignorance sighted on throughout these comments, you probably don't know. The Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation. *ahem* So, this land being returned to the MHA Nation, is a very good gesture from the Army Corp of Engineers, for uprooting the MHA Nation from their home. This Nation was uprooted and forced to move AGAIN!! Need we REMIND you? Again, Ignorance = Racism. Read some books, do some research, and ACKNOWLEDGE the injustice's, the many injustice's done to the MHA Nation, not only to them but other Native American tribes as well. It didn't stop after they were forced to live on reservations. Here's a thought for you. Native American. Native to America. The Native Americans were the first people on this great nation we call the United States of America. If you go to China, you see the Chinese people. You go to Spain, you see the Spaniards. Africa, Africans. All of the first people in these countries/nations are treated with the utmost respect by others. Why can't we have that in our own backyard? In the United States of America. It's 2006 people. My word. "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 8:40 AM:

" Honeybear, One thing you forgot is Whites and Native Americans lived together in harmony on the Fort Berthold Reservation and were buried on the bottoms of the Missouri River too. The historical trauma goes only as far as the person, not the skin color. Why is that so hard to believe? "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 8:28 AM:

" Dee, I'm not going to sit and dispute something that can be proven by emailing or calling the State Tax Commission Office. The truth is, Native Americans get a very big tax break. Furthermore, the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) is the tribe's (nation wide) main source of funding for several projects. How does the BIA get money? By the tax payers of the United States of America. It baffles me that people do not think outside the box. Anyway, Tex Hall has been on record several times that they will have to ask for grants and other sources of funding to manage the proposed lands. Worse yet, they currently do not have it in the budget to manage the lands they currently receive in trust. If you still are not convinced at the budget problems and tax incentives take a look at the Buffalo Ranch disaster. Money had to be given to the TAT to ensure the health of the herd. With the TAT's track record, would it make any sense at all to turn lands back to the TAT when they'd be asking the BIA for more money to manage the lands properly? Absolutely not! We have to make logical decisions folks. Until we have a proven track record by the TAT we cannot enter into agreements that will cause new hardships on everyone involved. Also, it should be noted these lands were not taken from anyone. They were bought and paid for at the time of the flood and years and years prior. The 155,000 acres bought from the tribe has been compensated at about $1,095 an acre and that's not even including the Mineral Rights that were gifted back to the TAT!!! Can you tell me who benefited from all the compensation? You guessed it, it wasn't the actual landowner! "

Oh Boy wrote on Jun 28, 2006 8:17 AM:

" Witheld, Budget problems for the Three Affiliated Tribes has existed for a long time. The cold hard truth is the tribal chairmen and tribal council members pad their pockets at the expense of the people they are supposed to represent. If you need further information to back my statements take a look at the New Town News' letter to the editors from enrolled tribal members. They are disgruntle over the new constitution being drafted and feel strongly that the "high ups" are not representing them properly. Furthermore, it is important to note that Wilber Wilkinson (past tribal chairman) was hit with one of the biggest embezzlement cases ever. He even spent time in prison for it! As for Tex Hall, he too now has accusations of "receiving compensation and/or other direct or indirect benefits from his relationship with the Intertribal Economic Alliance and other entities outside the Tribe." What's my point? Well, the enrolled members and other Native populations are not being represented by their government. The comments below some how twist all the so called hardships onto the flood and worst yet, the "whites who speak with forked tongues". When it can be proven over and over again that tribal government officials are rail-roading the very people that elect them. Now to twist in the land transfer it is important the TAT has NO INTENTION AT ALL to give the land back to its original owners. I hear sob stories of "my great grandfather lost his land" and the TAT should get it back. Tell me, how is that going to benefit your great grandfather's memory or the generations in front of him? The TAT will benefit and once again extort its people. Is that fair? Heck no, and for many, MANY other reasons the land transfer is not the right thing to do. It'll affect legal aspects, jurisdiction, enforcement, tax benefits for schools, ambulance, etc, recreation and the ability to fight the ACOE's management of Lake Sakakawea water levels. I suggest we quit living in the 19th century and move forward to a world that has never been more equitable when it comes to races living together. America is a prime example of how logical decisions made it a world power. However, if we continue to let emotion be our voice of decision we'll destroy ourselves faster than we can imagine. My official stance on this land transfer is the same as Governor Hoeven's. As you can see above, I am looking out for native and non-native people because there are way too many very important questions unanswered by the TAT and ACOE. "

Honey Bear wrote on Jun 28, 2006 12:38 AM:

" One point you all have missed is that these lands held tribal burial grounds that, in Indian culture, should be forever considered sacred. Disturbing the corpses of person's who have passed the worst of all acts - whether you are Indian, white or any other creed. My boyfriend lived on the Forth Berthold Reservation when the land his ancestors once held sacred was desicrated by the making of Garrison Dam. To this day, he cries when he speaks of corpses floating to the top of the newly created lake and of opportunistic, greedy white people out in boats checking the bodies for artifacts or items they could sell for a profit. Haven't the Tribes suffered enough? The land WAS theirs before the white man ever stepped foot on what is now the United States. What they have left is a pitiful compromise made by the white man's ancestors who took advantage of a people who were too honest, too naive and too believing in the goodness of man to understand they were begin taken. Sounds to me like it's the white people who are crying "GIMME, GIMME, GIMME" yet again. Sometimes I am amazed at man's unkindness to mankind. Some of the statements here make me ashamed that I am white. "

Warrior wrote on Jun 28, 2006 12:12 AM:

" Becareful everyone of the pain you're causing others. You can be tracked down by experts. Just stick to the topic at hand and don't succumb to negative politics. Just sensible solutions. Negative comments hurt both parties. Some of you thrive on negativity and most of it is a waste of time and energy for the rest of us. There will always be racist comments and racists, and, forever for that matter so ignore the racists and move on with life in a positive way. Don't carry the baggage of negativity, because THAT will kill you! "

paid them enough wrote on Jun 27, 2006 9:45 PM:

" I agree with Govenor Hoeven, give the land back to the people of North Dakota, not the Three Affiliated Tribes or any other tribe for that matter. At what point in our lives will the Native American people ever be repaid for what has been taken through war or bought from them. By the way, did we give France or Spain back any land that we gained from them during a war? We today are still paying for events that took place over 100 years ago. When the Native American people stop teaching their young children that the white people are bad, and responsible for their misfortunes, maybe then they will break their own cycle of poverty and misfortune. The Native American people are holding onto a grudge that will be their downfall. How can they believe in a God that does not teach to forgive and to forget. You can't tell me that someones misfortune that happens today is a white persons fault because of something he or she did 100 plus years ago. Come on give me a break. Each person is resposible for their own destiny, unfortunatly, the Native American people are just standing in line for a check from the governement. Why should they go and get a job, if they leave the reservation and try to better themselves, their own people chastise them for leaving the rest behind. Grow up, this is the 21st century, stop living in the past and be responsible for your own future, instead of holding your hand out for money from the government, again. "

Paul wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:19 PM:

" It has been said that arguing on the Internet is like winning a gold medal at the Special Olympics. Can any of the individuals who posted comments on here tell me why people would say that? "

no name wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:07 PM:

" Payment enough? What would happen if the government said they were going to construct a dam near Bismarck, or any town, that would displace 90% of the population? Seperate families? Many things were promised, some promises were kept, some weren't. What is the price of your home? Your culture? Your cemetaries? Your self-sufficiency? I don't think there has been enough reimbursement, but, then again, how can you put a price on someone else's pain? "

jh wrote on Jun 27, 2006 5:12 PM:

" to icitall--that is why we conquered you! "

icitall wrote on Jun 27, 2006 4:24 PM:

" I cannot believe the ignorance demonstrated by the individuals expressing their insepid, racist opinions on this issue. Comments ranging from Indian people being "conquered" and being given gifts from the government. The very government that we receive these "gifts" from is the very same government that has broken every single treaty it has ever signed with any given tribe. Every single treaty, think about that; for a nation with such noble and pristine christian ideals where is the honor in that? Jesus himself would never forgive your ancestors for all they have done in his name. "

jh wrote on Jun 27, 2006 3:14 PM:

" To a person of color--You didn't willingly give up your land we conquered the indians--I do like indians, this whole thing is getting spun around--but, I think that they have an easier time because things are given to them. There should be no tax breaks, no lump sum payments, no reservations, and no casinos that only the indians benefit from. We should all live together with the same opportunities. Us as "white" people are not given the same handouts that are given to the indians. "

jh wrote on Jun 27, 2006 2:14 PM:

" This is to BB, I am not a racist--you are being stereotypical of me by saying those things. I have a good job, am not a heavy drinker, I do not go to casinos as I believe that casinos are a way of the indians demise as they cannot manage the casino revenues that they get. I also believe that the casinos should be taxed on a windfall profit. You people lost in a war--we were gracious enough to give you land to live on, and give you tax breaks to be beneficial in our society--it's not a knock on the indian population it's just that if a "white" person had those breaks things would be a lot better. "

BB wrote on Jun 27, 2006 2:11 PM:

" "To a person of color" Just wanted to write to thank you for your insightful words you nailed it perfectly. "

BB wrote on Jun 27, 2006 2:00 PM:

" This is to JH you are by all means a typical racist, how dare you consider Native Americans a tax burden, you are the type of person who will go and use the Casinos and smile at the Native Americans, then turn your back and say something awful. They only want back what is there's, now all of a sudden everyone is in a uproar, take a good look if someone took your property and promised it back one day you too would want it back. "

A person of color wrote on Jun 27, 2006 1:48 PM:

" This web is full of racist white people. I guess we should all go to europe and claim all of the continent for the non-white people. How would white people react then? Would they willingly give up their land? Ofcourse not! This is the double standard being practised here. This is Native American land from Alaska to Chile. I am not Native American. Even I can say that this is native american land, which was stolen from them. What is wrong with returning a miniscule amount of land to the rightful owners of the land? The reason is most white people not only in North Dakota, but also worldwide are devout racist and bigotted. They enjoy white privilege and do not want to return land, which their ancestors stole from native people in the americas, australia, new zealand, south africa and in the rest of the world. and then these people go to the world and preach about morality! what a joke! and then these white people oppress other peoples of color, whether they are black, hispanic (who as being of mostly indigenous people also are the original owners of the land), and asian peoples. this disease of white racism and white privilege is to deny the non-white black, red, brown, and yellow people our rightful resources, dignity, and human rights! "

avis little eagle wrote on Jun 27, 2006 1:28 PM:

" Just wanted to inform your readers that those lands are treaty recognized as belonging to the Great Sioux Nation. "Recognized" not "Granted" in 1868 Treaty. Also, when Congress took the lands in the 1950's - against the wishes of the tribes who opposed the taking of their lands, Congress promised that when they were through with the lands, they would be returned to the tribes that they were taken from. We are asking for the lands which are within our reservation boundaries over which we already have sovereign jurisdiciton. The governor opposing this is an example of how the white people speak with a forked tongue. They promise one thing in their congressional mandates then later get out of their promises. Another example of "broken promises" by the federal government and its represenatives. "

Are you kidding me?! wrote on Jun 27, 2006 1:09 PM:

" How can they possibly manage it worse than the Corps has? And I just find it astounding that with all of the problems in this state, women and children being murdered by family members, meth use, alcohol use by teens, etc, Governor Hoeven is choosing to focus his energies on THIS. And we are all up in arms on what UND's mascot is. Take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you would have a problem if your child were to start dating a Native American. Then ask yourself why you REALLY have a problem with these issues. "

jh wrote on Jun 27, 2006 11:00 AM:

" Dee you're wrong-we have paid you people for years and you have given us nothing back! Oh wait tax burdens! "

jh wrote on Jun 27, 2006 10:56 AM:

" This is wrong in every sense of the word. We have given these people enough and to give them land around our lake is not right. It should be public access land. If they want it this way I want the res's back! "

Dee wrote on Jun 27, 2006 10:35 AM:

" I am from Standing Rock and I resided on the Ft. Berthold reservation for many years and since I was not enrolled there I had state taxes withheld from my paychecks. Also my husband, a Navajo, worked on Standing Rock and he is not from that tribe, so he had state taxes withheld from his paychecks also.I know my family pays taxes to the state and federal gov't just the same as any white person does. I am so tired of these stereotypes. Every time a native issue comes up in this paper there are ignorant and unkind people yelling the same stereotypes over and over. Also every single reservation I have ever resided on carries the American Flag as well as the POW/MIA flag with an extreme amount of pride and care and they treat their veterans with such respect and honor, but apparently that is not enough? I don't see the state flag flown outside many homes in this community of Bismarck either. I see the American Flag quite a bit but not the state flag. I guess those households should feel disgraceful also. "

whoanelly wrote on Jun 27, 2006 9:05 AM:

" I am to believe that the Gov. is right o this--also--haven't the people been paid for this land in the past???? Also--I agree with the others that wrote--you hardly see the ND flag alongside the tribal flag "

Barney wrote on Jun 27, 2006 8:46 AM:

" To the comment at 7:48 - you missed the point of withheld - the tribe does refuse to withhold state taxes for non-natives who work there, as someone who does taxes for a living, I have seen it time and time again. You are right they pay taxes but do it at tax time which can be a burden to them - the tribe should withhold the state taxes for employees who are not native or enrolled in their tribe and submit it to the state like other employers are required to do. They don't want the extra work - by the way its not just this tribe who does this - Standing Rock Sioux also don't withhold state taxes for non natives either. "

Payment enough? wrote on Jun 27, 2006 8:34 AM:

" Correct me if I am wrong (I'm not), but wasn't the tribes already compensated for that land? Not once, but twice? Question for the Tribes, will you be returning the money to the federal government to compensate for the additional land? My opinion is that the land must and rightfully should be returned to North Dakota. Keep our public lands open for all and not gifted to a tribe. "

Sold? Owned? wrote on Jun 27, 2006 8:17 AM:

" Wes, The people who originally owned the land -- and that too is open to debate as no one tribe owned land, it was taken in battles between one tribe and another -- sold it. SOLD it. Do they want to buy it back? That's another very simple solution. "

To Withheld - FYI wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:48 AM:

" I am not Native American, nor do I reside on or near Fort Berthold. The Three Affiliated Tribes does not refuse to withhold state taxes. That is a federal law that applies to all tribal members living on reservations. If an enrolled member earns income on the reservation, he or she does not pay state tax because state taxes do not pay for roads, etc. on reservations. If the tribal member either resides or is employed off the reservation, then they pay state taxes. The Three Affiliated Tribe may or may not fly the ND flag - I don't know. But, I do know that I don't see the ND flag flown any where very often, except at the state capitol. The US flag is certainly visible. So, let's not get nasty, Withheld! "

Don't give it back wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:16 AM:

" I agree with Gov Hoeven too. Plus if we give it back doesn't that make us indian, no NATIVE american, givers? Oh well, if we leave it up to the Corp of Engineers, they will definitely do what is the worst for the state. "

Wes wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:12 AM:

" A very simple solution; why not return the 24000 acres to the people that originally owned it ?? "

Barney wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:11 AM:

" Another instance of Native Americans saying Gimme, Gimme, Gimmee what you took from us. They are only American or North Dakota citizens when its beneficial for them to say they are. If they are citizens of ND as me Todd Hall says they are then they should be happy the governor is working to keep the land open to all the people of ND. "

waronpoverty wrote on Jun 27, 2006 6:52 AM:

" It changed native lives in a negative way that land or money can never replace. Governor a real statesman looks at the next generation not the next election. You have an opportunity to right past wrongs. How does it change ND? The question of management should have been asked before the dam was built. We wouldn't be dealing with this now. "

Withheld wrote on Jun 27, 2006 5:03 AM:

" I agree with Governor Hoeven that returning the land to the reservation would make recreation access too confusing. I would encourage the Corps of Engineers to turn over its unwanted acres to a state or federal agency for wildlife/natural resources management, as I am concerned about weed control until the land can restore its own natural flora balance. Conversely, if the 24,000 acres is returned to the TAT, is additional acreage taken from other landowners around the lake going to be returned to their descendents? I'm also curious about Todd Hall's comment that the tribal members are also citizens of North Dakota. Is this the Three Affiliated Tribes' official position? If so, why is the North Dakota flag NOT flown alongside the tribal flag and the Stars and Stripes? Why does the Three Affiliated Tribes refuse to withhold state taxes from its non-Native employees? "

Post Your Own Comment

All online comments are limited to 350 words total.
Comments are reviewed for taste, tone and language before posting.
Some comments may be used in the Tribune's print edition.
We value and respect your privacy, but The Bismarck Tribune might
disclose certain information to governmental entities if served with subpoena.